Wednesday, September 24, 2008

Living Well for Less?

With all the discussion about the economy and possibly higher taxes, I have been thinking lately about how to save money, so when Glenn ordered the books, Living Well on Practically Nothing: Revised and Updated Edition and Art & Science of Dumpster Diving, I dove right in to see if I could learn some money saving techniques.

What I learned was that the first book was worth the money just for the laughs and nonconventional wisdom alone. I knew I was in for a treat when I saw that the book was published by Paladin Press --the publishing company that put out such books as Hit Man: A Technical Manual for Independent Contractors and Claire Wolfe's 101 Things to Do 'Til the Revolution: Ideas and Resources for Self-Liberation, Monkey Wrenching and Preparedness.

"Living Well," written by author Edward Romney, is a practical take on how to live on $12,000 a year (the updated version was published in 2001). In order to do this, he advises you to become a "country person." This way, you can live cheap, no longer have to dress to impress and can find a cheap house (even if it means building your own shelter such as a tree house or log cabin) for $300.00 a month in rent. Uh, okay, I already live in Tennessee, maybe this is possible, but I doubt it.

In Chapter 2, he describes a day of cheap living. For breakfast, he sticks to frozen orange juice and oatmeal cooked with cheap oats with dry skim milk, which is also used for his one cup of coffee. He then walks to the post office where he looks in the trash for a free magazine or newspaper that someone threw away, then goes home for lunch of a can of tuna from Sam's Wholesale Club with free tomatoes from his garden. He only drinks water and has a two-day-old banana for dessert with the soft parts cut away. Hmm, I have a tomato garden and overripe bananas are okay but not great. So far, so good. Until this....

In a chapter on how to save on health and medical care, I have to say that I realized that this plan was not going to work for me. In order to get free medical care, the author suggests that one volunteer for medical experiments. "The doctor tests a new drug and its placebo and also gives you physical exams and a variety of other medical services." He also suggests if you have ever served that you use the Veterans Administration hospitals: "Patients who are senile, brain-damaged, or chronically ill seem to run the greatest risk of mistreatment. Some VA surgeons have poor records. You take your chances...."

He tells readers to simply try and stay healthy but if you do get sick, one can find free prescription medicine in a dumpster (if you are brave). "It is surprising how much is thrown away. Antibiotics and certain volatile drugs such as insulin and nitroglycerin are perishable, but most drugs are highly stable for several years at least. You have to read drug manuals and know what you are doing. The risk is high and you are on your own if you try this."

Maybe you shouldn't. At this point, wouldn't it be safer and less trouble really just to get a job to pay for extra healthcare or other needs? You can't really live well for less if you are sick, disabled, or dead from giving your body over to medical experiments, questionable surgeons or digging through dumpsters for drugs that may or may not be safe. Call me crazy, but that's my take.

Anyway, the book is hilarious and I must admit to laughing so hard that I nearly fell over, but I doubt most of us could live this way for long. Could you?

Labels: ,

55 Comments:

Blogger TMink said...

Could you?

Nope. I think I am way to plugged into the grid for that to work.

Trey

8:33 PM, September 24, 2008  
Blogger DADvocate said...

I found The Tightwad Gazette helpful although I don't follow it very closely. I'm not into dumpster diving.

Generally, I try to avoid eating out too much and buy stuff on sale as much as possible. If it wasn't for having kids, I'd find being thrifty a lot easier. I'm low maintenance.

8:45 PM, September 24, 2008  
Blogger Mark said...

"He then walks to the post office where he looks in the trash for a free magazine or newspaper that someone threw away..."

It is sad that he does not live somewhere with a public library :-(

-Mark Roulo

8:46 PM, September 24, 2008  
Blogger Val said...

I've ordered the book just for laughs.

Since Helen asked "I doubt anyone could live this way for long. Could you?"

Yes, I have. In 1989 I became disgruntled with the urban world, and decided to move back to the mountains of Western Montana, and live as I had grown up.

My biggest expense was insurance, auto and health. My total monthly expense was $350 per month.

Briefly here's how to do it. My hunting cabin 3bd 2ba on 2 acres cost $18K cash. Elk on the hoof are .35 cents each, the cost of powder, bullet, and primer. One Elk supplies one year of meat. A large garden produced almost all vegetables. Food totaled about $30 per month. I should add it is necessary to know how to "can" and make butter "from scratch". Water was free, and firewood, also free, supplied heat (chain saw required). Electricity is cheap in Montana averaging $37 per month.

So it is possible to live on $350 a month! The negatives are no convenient hospital, dental care, auto repair, or shopping.

It is a great way to catch up on a reading list, and there are libraries!

I parked my Mercedes in the barn for three years. Ha!

1:07 AM, September 25, 2008  
Blogger Jonathan said...

Maybe part of the author's plan involves earning money writing offbeat self-help books based on clever, untested ideas that he pulled out of his ass.

1:07 AM, September 25, 2008  
Blogger Cham said...

I haven't stooped so low as to take other people's medications but, yes, I live very very frugally. Not everyone thinks that getting high-paying job is the answer to good living. High paying jobs are also associated with high stress levels. When you do earn money you end up paying more taxes to a government that may or may not spend the money wisely. People might have more than a few moral concerns about helping fund causes with which they don't agree, I certainly do.

8:28 AM, September 25, 2008  
Blogger Oligonicella said...

I agree with cham. I quit contracting telecommunications due to the stress of the job and not seeing family for extended periods. I am currently living on maybe $400 a month in a little town in Mo. I am a much happier person for it and am doing a helluva lot more writing (and no, not meaning blog commenting).

10:04 AM, September 25, 2008  
Blogger Soccer Dad said...

Is he related to another well known Romney?

If he is he might be able to beg from cousin Mitt.

12:05 PM, September 25, 2008  
Blogger Danny said...

soccer dad- probably not. A Mitt Romney relative wouldnt be drinking coffee, cuz drinking coffee is prohibited in the Mormon Church.
Unless heis an apostate member of the family.:)

12:22 PM, September 25, 2008  
Blogger Wayne said...

"If it wasn't for having kids, I'd find being thrifty a lot easier. I'm low maintenance."

Same here, plus I still have my wife in the mix, and while she's not as bad as some, she's still relatively high maintenance.

1:10 PM, September 25, 2008  
Blogger JG said...

"Same here, plus I still have my wife in the mix, and while she's not as bad as some, she's still relatively high maintenance."

-------

Yeah. Huh.

I have sometimes been astounded how much free cash flow I had between girlfriends - if you have a wife or girlfriend, you don't even realize how much goes out for her.

I have to throw in the usual caveats: Not all women are like that, women are cool blah blah blah. If you are a woman and reading this, it certainly doesn't apply to YOU. YOU are perfect.

But for any men reading this: Don't say anything about it, for God's sake, just unobtrusively take a look at what your girlfriend or wife bleeds out of you, even if she works. Unreal.

6:32 PM, September 25, 2008  
Blogger JG said...

"Unpaid sex is far more expensive than paid sex" - Woody Allen

6:33 PM, September 25, 2008  
Blogger BlogDog said...

Can I borrow your copy of the book now that you're done with it?
See, I'm learning already!

7:36 PM, September 25, 2008  
Blogger bleeper said...

I live frugally, and manage to save money even on a very small income.

I can do this because I used to have a job and managed to buy things that I use now - a truck, the house I live in, tools and so on. I also saved my money so I have a nest egg, should I absolutely need to buy something.

Health care is tough, but I have paid cash, negotiated with health care providers, bartered hand crafted furniture for treatment and so on. Even my dentist is willing to negotiate. And I would like to thank my cardiologist for negotiating his rate down when I needed open heart surgery - he is truly as great a human as he is a surgeon.

It is possible to live on very little, and live well. I eat well, have pets, work from home, and want for nothing.

As for dumpster diving - no thanks. But I do give away many things on the local Freecycle, and if you have one where you live, it can be a great source for many household items and things like firewood.

7:40 PM, September 25, 2008  
Blogger Sarah said...

It's possible but unpleasant. I did my 12-week DC internship for about $400 excluding rent and tuition. I didn't eat well enough to feel healthy, though (I only passed out once!) and I never went anywhere, and my roommates hated me because I wouldn't contribute to their fancy Saturday dinners (which included Omaha steaks sent by one of their grandmothers.) Most of my money went to the Metro, and I ate a ton of ramen and popcorn. I basically hate ramen now, and rarely manage to go more than three or four days cooking for myself before feeling seriously deprived. Thank goodness Taco Bell still manages to score as "luxury" for my subconscious; I'd be doomed otherwise.

A middle ground can also be reached, obviously... but the crazy-cheap lifestyle is not, in my opinion, sustainable in the long term. This sort of lifestyle is the reason my paternal grandfather was only 5'4" when ALL of his male descendants are over 6' tall, and why my maternal grandfather had 12 siblings born alive but only 8 who reached adulthood.

7:50 PM, September 25, 2008  
Blogger oMan said...

Free or cheap prescription drugs can be had through pharma company programs. Pfizer has Share the Care. More generally try the website for PhRMA (Pharmaceutical Research Manufacturers Ass'n). There may be means testing but presumably a guy as creative as Ed Romney can help overcome that...

8:05 PM, September 25, 2008  
Blogger oMan said...

Free or cheap prescription drugs can be had through pharma company programs. Pfizer has Share the Care. More generally try the website for PhRMA (Pharmaceutical Research Manufacturers Ass'n). There may be means testing but presumably a guy as creative as Ed Romney can help overcome that...

8:05 PM, September 25, 2008  
Blogger oMan said...

Free or cheap prescription drugs can be had through pharma company programs. Pfizer has Share the Care. More generally try the website for PhRMA (Pharmaceutical Research Manufacturers Ass'n). There may be means testing but presumably a guy as creative as Ed Romney can help overcome that...

8:05 PM, September 25, 2008  
Blogger cottus said...

As the prosperity of the nation increases, for more and more people, the job of choice is .... not having a job. It can be as gratifying to drive down one's basic costs as it is to drive up one's discretionary income. This is the major flaw in the consumer model. And a major flaw in the tax model, where the high end folks pay all out of proportion to their numbers. The harder you work the less you have in the general sense because you lose time, which is most valuable.

Thanks! But you may want to change the system. It is not very healthy.

8:33 PM, September 25, 2008  
Blogger br549 said...

During the years I lived in Johnson City, TN, a homeless man had his television and extension cord stolen from the dumpster he was living in.
It made the national news.

I suppose dumpster diving can be quite lucrative if you know where to dive.

8:43 PM, September 25, 2008  
Blogger Vinnie said...

I drive by houses under construction and offer to help clean up if I can have the scrap wood. Kiln dried 2x4s burn HOT. I also live in the country so a 5 gallon bucket of dried beans can be had for an ice cold soft drink at the right time and place, and most towns let you have a couple of chickens as "pets". let them out in the evenings to eat bugs etc. and you can cut down on food costs for them(they eat most all table scraps too). Lake full of catfish less than 3 miles away, Apple, pear and apricot trees and grapes on the fence line. Make my own bread in winter too. I hunt some and buy my meat on the hoof too...cheaper that way and better food.

9:57 PM, September 25, 2008  
Blogger Eric said...

"a 5 gallon bucket of dried beans can be had for an ice cold soft drink at the right time and place"

It amazes me how few people realize that ordinary rice and beans (which can be bought for very little money -- especially in bulk) have high nutritive value and can be stored for a very long time.

From the wiki bean article:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kidney_bean#Red_.28kidney.29_beans
"Rice and pinto beans served with cornbread or corn tortillas are often a staple meal where there is limited money for meat, as the combination of beans and corn creates virtually all the protein amino acids needed in a meat substitute."

Not only that, they can be seasoned, stored virtually forever, combined with many things, and they taste good. If pinto beans bore you, there are black beans, and the famous Cajun red beans & rice.

Powdered milk can sometimes be had for very little, if you look.

(To remove the complex sugars that cause flatulence, soak the beans overnight before cooking.)

11:52 PM, September 25, 2008  
Blogger Donna B. said...

Eric, the real trick to reducing flatulence is multiple rinsing of the beans. Soaking is optional. Rinse them at least three times.

I prefer to do both. Rinse, rinse, rinse, then soak.

And, because I was just too lazy to go to the store last night, I figured out this morning that you can empty, rinse, and reuse a coffee filter.

That won't save you a lot of money... but it's a start :-)

2:28 AM, September 26, 2008  
Blogger br549 said...

One can also break into now vacant houses from the recent bust and just live in them. Turning the power and gas back on is a simple matter if you know how. That's what is going on in the greater D.C. area where my sister lives. It's a pretty big problem up in her area.

5:33 AM, September 26, 2008  
Blogger stavr0s said...

About them beans: First step is to cover with water and bring to a quick boil. Then rinse well and then soak. That first boil cleans them and gets rid of any "green taste" and I think it helps with the gas too.

8:59 AM, September 26, 2008  
Blogger Jay Manifold said...

Judging by cost of living indices, the average person living in the Northeast or on the west coast could cut their expenses by at least 1/3 simply by moving a few hundred miles inland. In general, aiming for, say, $24k rather than $12k/yr would enormously increase one's savings rate without taking scary chances on things like diet and medical care. Living simply, and in particular not buying more house than you need, is the same as getting a huge raise.

10:15 AM, September 26, 2008  
Blogger miriam said...

I squeezed every dime for eight years while my husband was getting his PhD. Cut my own and his hair, cooked all meals except for occasional Chinese takeout. Then the kids had to be raised and sent to college.

Now I buy what I want. Fortunately, I don't want much. Books and travel are my biggest expense. I don't try to save anything, but I don't spend more than I have.

10:29 AM, September 26, 2008  
Blogger Lamont said...

br549 - I know how to turn on the water and gas. How do you turn on the power?

Lamont

11:03 AM, September 26, 2008  
Blogger br549 said...

First, lick your fingers..........

11:31 AM, September 26, 2008  
Blogger Cham said...

I'm selling power to my neighbor right now. The utility company here charges an arm and a leg to turn on the power, as well as requiring a hefty deposit. My neighbor is living here temporarily and doesn't have a large power need. I've run a heavy duty extension cord and put him on his own 20 amp circuit. He's paying me enough to cover twice my own utility bill as well as his.

When there is a will there is a way.

11:58 AM, September 26, 2008  
Blogger br549 said...

But....but....cham..... I thought you were a liberal democrat. You know, you were going to vote for Hillary and all....

Now here you are all right wing capitalist and everything, selling power at a horrendous profit. I'm telling ACORN on you, for sure.

12:38 PM, September 26, 2008  
Blogger Cham said...

Unlike what the republicans want everyone to believe, Democrats are very capitalistic.

1:35 PM, September 26, 2008  
Blogger Renee Hopkins Callahan said...

To those who said words to the effect that it's amazing what a wife or a girlfriend can bleed out of you -- that cuts both ways. There are plenty of women supporting men who can't pay their own way.

1:40 PM, September 26, 2008  
Blogger Helen said...

Cham,

Be careful. When I was in NYC, some neighbors ran an extension cord this way to another apartment in the building because the tenants had their own electricity cut off. I came home one night and the building was on fire and the apartment using the "borrowed" electricity burned down.

2:15 PM, September 26, 2008  
Blogger SGT Ted said...

Of course Democrats are capitalists. With their own money.

2:28 PM, September 26, 2008  
Blogger Cham said...

Helen:

We spent a great deal of time working this arrangement out so that it is operating as safely as possible. We're using a heavy duty construction-grade extension cord that is new and my neighbor has been given strict instructions to only operate one appliance at a time. As I have said before, I've got him on his own 20 amp breaker which is very sensitive.

This arrangement started because my neighbor called the utility company to get the power turned on and, aside from the astronomical cost, they told him they couldn't turn on his power for 4 long weeks. Our utility company has a monopoly and has raised our rates by 85% in the last 3 years. They have us by the short hairs so it is time to think outside the box. Everything is working out well so far. I'm enjoying the extra money and my neighbor has the power he needs.

2:53 PM, September 26, 2008  
Blogger dlb said...

Judging by cost of living indices, the average person living in the Northeast or on the west coast could cut their expenses by at least 1/3 simply by moving a few hundred miles inland.

That's right, and probably a conservative estimate. For instance, I live in a region of PA that's near Philly, NYC, and Princeton. Real estate is very high, other costs are moderate relative to metro areas. But if you move due west, all of these costs drop precipitously. Even more urbanized areas, such as the Bethlehem / Allentown corridor or Scranton / Wilkes Barre are much less expensive (e.g. comparable housing may be 60-75% less). A 50K annual income would probably put you in the top 20% of incomes. You could afford a large home w/ land and still accumulate savings.

6:06 PM, September 26, 2008  
Blogger JG said...

Renee Hopkins Callahan sez:

"To those who said words to the effect that it's amazing what a wife or a girlfriend can bleed out of you -- that cuts both ways. There are plenty of women supporting men who can't pay their own way."

---------

Right, but I hope that you aren't pretending like these situations are symmetrical or equal.

1. Women will put up with a lower-earning or non-earning man for exactly the amount of time that they think he will "accomplish" something down the road. Women will support a medical student or guy in a residency program. Women will support a man starting a promising business or who has promising musical ability or whatever.

On the other hand, every stay-at-home dad I have personally known has eventually gotten divorced. They are also treated with increasing disrespect in the marriage by the working woman.

2. Women have the full force of the legal system and society in general on their side. Here is once instance among many:

Let's say that a man and woman move in together and agree to split rent.

If the man doesn't pay his half, and the woman sues him in small claims court, the court will most likely view that as an agreement that has to be upheld and the man will be ordered to pay the amount owed to the woman. A very, very tiny minority of (female) judges will regard that situation as falling under family law, not contract law, and may say that the man also contributed to the household in other ways, so good-bye, case is dismissed.

If the MAN is owed money from the woman, however, there are three different things that could happen in court. A judge (mostly non-feminist female judges fall into this category) will view it as an agreement and order the woman to pay the amount owed.

A good chunk of (mostly older male) judges will view this as a family law situation and say that the woman probably cooked and cleaned, so it's a wash. Case dismissed.

Another chunk of (almost exclusively older male) judges will not only view the situation as a family law case but actually start yelling at the plaintiff. A man supports his Lady and doesn't whine about it. Not only case dismissed, but the judge is considering sanctions for the man being a wimp.

---

On top of this, I have a feeling that the net money flow to women from men is higher than the flow to men from women.

But in any case, this isn't symmetrical or equal or equivalent. And please quit trying to make it appear to be that way.

4:23 AM, September 27, 2008  
Blogger JG said...

And further, I have noticed that there is simply an EXPECTATION on the part of some women that the man should help with everything (not just financially). The man is responsible for everything that happens to her. Some women truly believe that - if they are in a car accident, for instance, they will go back in a chain of some kind of strange logic to a point where the man was responsible. For instance, they had an argument the night before, and she was thinking about that the next day and was distracted, so the man is responsible for the accident. He should pay.

These types of women, conversely, are NEVER responsible for anything themselves, it is always some man, somewhere, who is at fault. These women are like children.

There are very few men who think that way, probably some somewhere, but I have never personally met them. I HAVE met women like that, and more than one.

4:30 AM, September 27, 2008  
Blogger JG said...

One more thing: Living extremely frugally on the part of men is an absolute CHICK MAGNET.

You are not going to be able to keep the women off you. And they're gonna want to do the extremely frugal date over and over again.

Cuz that's how women are.

Yeah.

6:01 AM, September 27, 2008  
Blogger br549 said...

Loved your last post, jg.

Frugal living is a chick magnet.

I'll be getting a few hearty guffaws out of that one for a while.

5:41 PM, September 27, 2008  
Blogger kentuckyliz said...

So how many of you guys consider a frugal woman a hottie?

Thought so.

9:44 AM, September 29, 2008  
Blogger JG said...

This comment has been removed by the author.

11:30 AM, September 29, 2008  
Blogger JG said...

This comment has been removed by the author.

11:34 AM, September 29, 2008  
Blogger JG said...

One more point:

It seems that feminist or just female posters think everything is symmetrical or identical between the genders.

It's not.

Men aren't attracted to high-earning women for the most part. I see 45, 50 and 55-year-old female executives lamenting the complete "lack of men". There's not a lack of men, there's a lack of men with interest in a menopausal bitch with money.

(Most) women, conversely, are VERY attracted to high-earning men. Low-earning or frugal men are simply non-existent to them, kind of like the houseplant in the corner.

11:34 AM, September 29, 2008  
Blogger The Overgrown Hobbit said...

Women are attracted to competent men; because, let's face it, raising one's kids and making a marriage work is tough. Some loser, slacker, Joe Ineptitude who can't be arsed most of the time is pretty likely to drop the ball.

Happily, in the U.S.of A. competence (in men and women) is usually rewarded with $$$. Not always, of course, but it's the way to bet.

Because despite feminist propaganda about women earning 70% of men, in most fields, a capable woman, unencumbered by kids and husband can make as much as her male counterpart--usually more.

Of course, a good man and a sweet baby are totally worth trading in the profit and ambition for. But the key adjective is "good."

5:24 AM, September 30, 2008  
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