"How Do You Feel About Abortion?"
Imagine you're a guy out on a first date and this is a question a woman asks you over dinner conversation. Why does she ask? MSN's article on five things guys love to hear and five things guys hate to hear tells us:
After a question posed as a test like that, there's a later? Poor fool.
This type of question is known among men as a litmus test—a touchy topic that women raise to gauge whether we’re politically, morally, or spiritually on the same page as them (the death penalty, gay marriage, and the war in Iraq also fit the bill). Sure, we probably have strong opinions. But we’re not interested in getting into them with you, at least not yet. After all, this is a date, not debate club. Let’s have fun and save more heated back-and-forths for later.
After a question posed as a test like that, there's a later? Poor fool.
posted by Helen at 10:37 AM
150 Comments:
A litmus test question like that coming out of the blue would call for a counter litmus test.
"I just learned last week that half of all fertilized eggs (aka embryos, aka blastocysts) are naturally aborted. Might they have had souls?"
If asked in a polite and neutral manner, it might be possible to at least be able to find out (regardless of politics) whether the person is thoughtful and reflective, or angry and emotive.
Not something I've ever experienced, but there would be a strong likelihood there would be no "later". It smacks of someone who takes themselves too seriously.
I think a compatibility on overall outlook is important, but that kind of thing needs to take a back seat and reveal itself in due course.
eric: Might they have had souls?" Now there is a GREAT way to end a tedious date in a hurry! Or at least get some fireworks for your effort.
That article was really funny! Those tips work well once you are married too. Thanks for the reminder!
I really like the other side of the story "how to sweet talk her" link at the end.
Becky
Sebastian,
I certainly agree that compatibility is important, but the kind of person who would subject a person they don't know to a test of political stance seems a bit of a bore and who knows what other "tests" lie in wait? It sounds like an interrogation, not a date!
One of my favorite date horror stories was the gal who, in the middle of watching a movie at a friend's house, suddenly decided that it was the perfect moment to convince me to join the John Birch Society. Needless to say, there was no second date.
What's with "relationships" and the "magic word Five"? I think Lileks had the absolute best word on this (beginning at the end of the 2nd paragraph).
Try your luck on eHarmony, and you'll get people like this all of the time. If you're not into Progressive Politics, you're simply not a potential mate.
I used to believe that I had to have someone with the same politics as myself, but then I grew up. Or, I realized that no one has the same beliefs as I, and it's not a sin to reject lower taxes.
I think you could have some fun with this actually. If she asks what your opinion on abortion is, you can confuse her by saying, "I hadn't really thought about it" (Who hasn't thought about it?). Or say something really off the wall, like "I'm for it. I think feminists should abort all their children." If she's pro-life, she'll probably laugh, and if she's a feminist, well, in a round about way, she got the answer she wanted (and what man wants to date a feminist anyway?).
Of course, if she asks what your feelings about gay marriage are, you can always respond, "Is there something you need to tell me?"
Or "Is there something I need to tell you?"
"A litmus test question like that coming out of the blue"
.....is a red flag. That kind of person obviously thinks she is entitled to treat people anyway she likes. Then again, she is just trying to make light conversation. It can happen. Then again, a person who thinks such a question is light conversation probably has other problems.
Relationships? Five dates!? What a waste of time and resources.
Litmus Test
Do they put out of the first date? If not, kick them to the curb. That's why hippy chicks are best. Pump 'em and dump 'em.
Stay single. Stay free.
Heh. Although, “My last boyfriend...” is a lot better to hear than "My current boyfriend..."
I now try to care less about the rude person on the other side of the table than I care about how I handle it and what that says about me. Rude people are everywhere and our culture gives those with "progressive politics" a green light to be bullies. But courtesy is contageous and so I try to at least do my part.
Rizzo, humor is a great deflecto-shield to get you through the moment.
I wonder why e-harmony is like that? It seems to me that having progressive politics be your driving issue does not cover a huge swath of the American public. Maybe those bully types find it harder to find mates - thus more of them constantly in the hunt. Oh well, at least knowing that up-front allows yourself to avoid a bad date with one of them brow-beating about Guantano or how Bush can't read. (Wow! make that up yourself did you. I laughed, I cried)
Becky
This reminds me of a news segment that I saw several years ago.
It was a series of man in the street interviews. The subject was abortion, and the question was "When do you think that life begins?".
The respondents gave the answers that you would expect: at conception, at birth, etc.
The last interview in the story was a middle aged married guy with kids.
His response?
"Life begins when the last kid leaves home and the dog dies."
I'm now 47, married, with two kids. I do believe that he was on to something.
I would not mind that sort of thing, because a litmus test works both ways. If a date axes me because of my beliefs concerning abortion, I would have axed her later anyway I bet.
My test would be to see how she reacts to my answers. If she had too many issue tests, I would get some valuable info: she is not the person for me!
Trey
I once got asked that, and I quickly answered, "Depends on who's being aborted." Works on everyone! Plus it's my own litmus test to see if they have a sense of humor.
I've had a number of dates where this question came up. In every case, there was never a second date. For good reason. I'm a law student--my work every day involves dealing with political pontification and people thinking I'm strange because of my right wing views. On a date, I'd prefer to get away from that...
sometimes you dont want to hear such.. serious questions on the first to 5 dates, only when its getting serious, would that question be valid. but to ask it over dinner, theres a time and a place for everything, over dinner is definatly not that time, and even more so the first date.
if someone asked me that, i would question are they really after me as a potential match, or just as a breeding male.
My response would be "I've had a vasectomy, so that won't be an issue."
(Ooh, horrible pun in there as well.)
"What's with "relationships" and the "magic word Five"?"
See "The Magic Number Seven, Plus or Minus Two". For some odd reason, the human mind does a particularly good job of remembering items in sets of 5-9. Going for the low end of the range lets you hit even the slowest audience...
"Yeah, well, bye." Followed by standing up and leaving.
Let her pick up her half.
Any man who hears the question of abortion proffered should either run away from her or ask her if she knows that the majority of children aborted are female and ask her how she feels about that. 'ya know what luv,dear, I am alright with abortion as long as it is a female' Humm, now that is a litmus test. But then again the issue is not really 'abortion' per se but about reproductive control for the woman--let us now mince words--it is always about control with the woman.
Perhaps the guy can also ask her if she is alright with ex-utero abortion? I wonder what she would think of that? It happens everyday to adults as well as to children only minutes old. If she is alright with that well then you know she is a 'compassionate' 'loving' 'sweet' 'demure' 'sensitive' 'sexy' 'empowered' 'liberated' 'progressive' 'non-hateful' 'tolerant' woe-man---don't we already have enough of them? I think the ex-utero abortion would look more favorable if this was her credo.
I also like on the dating sites where women can specify an income range for prospective partners.
I wonder how they'd feel if the guys could specify cup size?
Very crass, I think.
Off-topic, I guess, but I might be inclined to respond with the following:
"I believe that abortion is last-resort option, but in any case, the decision to become parents, or not, is a decision that must invole both parents equally. In the unanticipated event of an unplanned pregnancy, this still holds true."
I'm quite sure that this would terminate an otherwise pleasant outing, and this is probably, after all, not a bad thing.
Rusty
Seems like getting asked a question like that on a first date is a blessing. If the guy has any brains at all, there won't be a second date or a psychotic break up further down the road. Sounds like he's getting off easy!
but rusty on a first date, alarm bells would be ringing, and a klaxon shouting run away, run away..
The correct response is to take her hand in yours, look deeply into her eyes, and say something like
"All our lives are in the hands of Cthulhu."
True, aa, but I always feel compelled to campaign for fatherhood. And since just hearing the question sets the "do not call" flag in my mind, I would find it amusing to hear the answer even while knowing the outcome.
Rusty.
rich...life without a dog is only pseudo-life.
After a question like that, it becomes obvious that even if you agree with them, that this is the sort of thing that really, really matters to them. There are some issues that are hobby-based, and that's not too bad, but if they can't put politics aside, that's bad.
Religion is different, only because religion goes much deeper. If you can't agree on religion, you really can't agree on fundamental truth. People who expect you to just blithely accept fundamental disagreement are basically asking you to not believe that what you believe is true. And if you think that people can have sincere, severe differences here and have a good marriage, you're statistically wrong. How could a Muslim fundamentalist husband get along with a Buddhist or Christian wife who sincerely disagrees with him?
OTOH, if there is a big issue between the two of you, there is a lot to be said for discovering it sooner rather than later.
"Why do you ask? Are you planning on having one?"
This article is stupid. All 5 of the things "men want to hear" are also things women want to hear on a date.
As for the 5 things "men hate to hear":
1) Women don't want to hear about your ex-gf either.
2) Women get just as annoyed when you take calls during dinner.
3) The abortion question (and topic of this whole conversation) is an awful one to bring up for most men AND women, although there are some super-argumentative types that will jump at the chance to debate anything. Those don't worry about offending.
4) If you want a "girlie girl" then you have to be prepared to smile, nod, and "that's so interesting" when she goes on about shoes. If you repeatedly ask out women who wear designer clothes, expensive makeup, and obviously put a lot of effort into their appearance, you have no right to whine when they talk about it.
5) Maybe this is just because I am younger, but most secular women do NOT want to hear that from a guy either. For religious types (both sexes), this is a usual first date question.
I tend to get "I'll bet you're really $ucce$$ful..." as a litmus test more often, after which I finish my dinner, pick up the check and bolt.
When I get the Abortion question on a first or 2nd date (it's happened a couple times) my response is "I'll never have one."
If they think it's funny (or even worth a smirk) then THEY pass.
I've got very little time for the "Sex in the City" brigade.
I was seeing someone for a while, a roman catholic medical malpractice lawyer. We spent an awful lot of time talking about the conflicts she had between her clients and her religion. Quite fascinating.
If this question is truly asked on first or second dates, as seems to be the case, then all I can say, is the end must be near...
I'm starting to sound like my grandmother and proud of it.
Well, I for one wouldn't mind it at all, since I not only enjoy the hell out of a good freewheeling serious discussion, but find small-talk chit-chat both boring and yet annoying at the same time.
I'd much rather get asked what I think about abortion, answer, and then get to follow it up with a question about what *she* thinks about men deserving equivalent options in terms of legal divestment of their paternal obligations and responsibilities -- i.e., LC4M: Legalized Choice for Men.
To me, that sort of thing *is* part of 'the fun'.
Now, that being said. . .the other four "Don'ts" listed are indeed Bad Moves -- and the advice against them applies to plenty of other introductory social occasions in addition to dates.
I have no objection to such a question--the purpose of a first date with someone I don't know is to determine whether or not they are a good enough match to rate a second date.
As a Christian, I am mostly looking for a specific set of beliefs, which will then influence views on specific issues such as abortion--I normally don't need to ask such a blunt question, as after an hour of conversation I typically have a pretty good idea of someone's beliefs (such as the history major who volunteered that she usually wrote about the women's side of things and how they were oppressed, and that she'd had a hangover that morning from being out drinking--two signs of a significant cognitive dissonance between us).
This whole thread makes me glad (once again) to have been married for 20 years.
I don't date and don't miss it.
David - 18 for us, and boy, do I not want to be back "out there"! I had no idea the first-date conversation had changed so much; back when--in the '80s--I had trouble dodging the astrology-followers. And don't anyone tell me "that figures; you must be a Virgo"!
Boy, was I glad when I discovered Bruce was as turned off by that as I was!
If I was asked that on a first date, the context would have to be very well sorted for me to not see it as a big 'red flag'.
In other words it would mean things were going very well indeed or very badly! It's more likely to be the latter, eliciting a 'better get the bill, must dash, got to polish the leaves on my house plants' reaction.
Nick - South Africa
"'progressive' 'non-hateful' 'tolerant' woe-man"
Oxymoron.
It's a dumb article. It's a fantastically deranged question (for a first, or for that matter third, date). As Helen said, "There's a later?" I would be hard pressed to do anything with the rest of the evening aside from performing a cruelly subtle conversational vivisection.
Be that as it may, brainfromarous had the best answer yet.
Also, thanks to kirk for pointing out that hilarious article!
Funny. I've been asked that question by men--maybe not on the first date, but fairly early on--and I didn't realize it was the affront to decency and humanity y'all seem to think it is when posed by a woman. I appreciate knowing that a guy believes that men should be allowed to get a court order for an abortion when he doesn't want to be a father; it's useful information in determining whether or not I want to be physical with him.
Anyway, the only answer to that question out of the blue is, "Why do you ask?" There's usually a reason.
"take her hand in yours, look deeply into her eyes, and say something like "All our lives are in the hands of Cthulhu."
too many really funny comments to list but I agree brainfromarous gets the award.
"Why do you ask? Are you planning on having one?" is a close second :-)
Becky
Most kind, folks. Although I've gotten some harsh response from Dagonites.
Ahem. Seriously, however, there will come a point in an ongoing relationship where the Big Questions about beliefs, morals, etc. will come up. We all know that.
But a woman (or man) who drops that kind of bomb before the end of a first date should be treated with caution. Sure, maybe they just like to discuss politics - that IS 'small talk' for some.
But it could also be a warning that the person has no sense of boundaries whatsoever and those kinds of folks are trouble. It could also signify that they expect their friends and lovers to be ideologically correct, in which case every topical conversation will be a minefield.
What's the problem? I've asked women how they feel about paternity fraud being legal in the U.S. I've also asked them what they intend to do to change the legal environment that permits it.
They usually just get angry and leave. That's why I make a point of asking them early in the "date" so that I waste as little time as possible.
>>"...in which case every topical conversation will be a minefield."<<
But why so? I agree that this is a pretty deep question to ask on the first date, and my personal response might well be rare.
But such a conversation would only be a minefield if you were attempting to navigate your way around the 'hazard' rather than being honest about it. If you do anything other than answer honestly, THEN you're creating the minefield because you're liable to find youself eating your words and losing an otherwise desirable relationship.
Bruce Springsteen and Brad Pitt both had to divorce their first wives because of their desire to procreate, which was revealed after the weddings to be in conflict with the intentions of their wives. I suspect that those two particular minefields were created when either one or both parties failed to make their intentions clear at the outset.
Rusty
After a question posed as a test like that, there's a later? Poor fool.
So true. Why even put up with such behavior?
This seems like a worthwhile question to ask anyone before you sleep with them. Even careful people sometimes end up with a pregnancy, and if people disagree on this, it could lead to a lot of heartbreak and hassle for everyone.
5 Things I Like To Hear On A Date:
1. "Race you through the wine list."
2. "Worst pain I ever experienced was the first few hours after my hysterectomy."
3. "Wow... I haven't fired a gun in weeks."
4. "I'd love to."
5. "One more drink, and I'm all yours."
Of course, I last went on an actual date back in the Kaiser's day, and no woman has ever actually said any of those things to me, so most of the above, like so much about me, is probably horribly out of date [sic].
It wasn't all that long ago that I had quite a few first dates. I never ran across the abortion question. I can't see a second date after a question like that or any of the otehr bad behaviors listed.
Mind you, there were a few really interesting debates on first dates. On one we got into which Durrell brother was the better writer with me backing Gerald and her Lawrence. There were several dates for that one.
On another first date we got into a REALLY silly discussion of the bad-dates we have had over the years. I still talk to her sometimes and we're still talking about doing a book on atrocious dates: We might actually do it. We've got some dillies!
Now, radish, you're falling into one of those behaviors that will get all sorts of sneers: saying, "Oh, so it's ok if men do it?" when no one had mentioned men doing or not doing it at all.
I'd dodge that if I were you. Partly because no, of course it makes no difference the gender of someone who attempts such presumptuous twittery, but the article was about women doing it. (I cannot fathom a man being lauded for that sort of thing, and it not coming up suggests few others can either.) Partly because we're pretty much all on to that deflection toward irrelevance and find it both silly and disingenuous.
In answer to the people who ask, "What's wrong with finding out early?", my answer is: It's a matter of your date seeing you (or vice versa) as another human being, and not just a potential extension of themselves. A person who is willing to challenge, in a social/date setting, someone that they've only just met with controversial opinions is a person who is at the least self-centered and inconsiderate. At worst, they could be narcisstic, borderline personality, or even sociopathic. So if a first date hits me with a Big Opinion, even if it's something I agreed with, it would cause my psycho warning flags to go up.
Well said, Cousin Dave.
I used to take my dates to a hole-in-the-wall Chinese restaurant, order MuShu Pork, and see if they'd eat it with their fingers or try to fork it up. It was an infallible test of their self-assurance, especially if they had never had that dish before.
Also, the one I married insisted adamantly on going Dutch the first time we went for dinner, and I essentially had to trick her into going with me in the first place. With good taste like that, I knew I had a winner.
I usually pick my nose several times during the meal if particular questions come up before their time.
I roll the geege around in finger tip and thumb tip, flicking it once it becomes dry enough to actually control its direction of flight. All in direct view of the offending person across the table and those around us. That usually guarantees a one off date.
Sometimes I don't even have to expend the fuel to give her a ride home.
"One reason to be against the death penalty is that a disproportionate number of death row inmates are poor and black. I'm against abortion for the same reason: most aborted fetuses are black females. I think anyone who's pro-choice has to consider the inherent racism and mysoginy of wiping out a generation of black women."
"Do you think abortions should be rare or over-easy?"
If I recall correctly, during the campaign finance debates Eric Alterman wrote that he wouldn't have someone opposed to McCain-Feingold over for dinner at his house. Talk about a litmus test--refusing to be friends with people of a policy differences!
oops. Multiple typo alert. I meant-- "refusing to be friends with people over policy differences."
TO: Dr. Helen
RE: Eeeerrrrr....
....most men I know, i.e., REAL men--the sort that swore to lay down their lives for this way of life--don't think very highly of women who are willing to go out and kill the children they've sworn to defend....with their very lives.
Just an observation, backed up by 27 years associated with the infantry.
Regards,
Chuck(le)
I have been asked this question on a first date as well. My response:
"Well, I don't know yet. How do you feel about Pre-Nup's?"
Usually do not have a second date.
Q: "How Do You Feel About Abortion?"
A: "I don't know, I've never had one"
Rob Crawford said...
"What's with "relationships" and the "magic word Five"?"
See "The Magic Number Seven, Plus or Minus Two". For some odd reason, the human mind does a particularly good job of remembering items in sets of 5-9. Going for the low end of the range lets you hit even the slowest audience...
----------------------------------
Rob,
The study/reference you are probably refering to was done by AT&T back in the late 20's. The phone system needed to determine what was the maximum number of digits that a person could retain for 1 minute. Answer - 10. They also looked at the sequencing and found that groupings of no more than 4 was the maximum. As a consequence we have --
(xxx) (yyy) (zzzz)
North American NPA/NXX plan
(ww) (xx) (yy) (zzzz)
Euro City plan
Why did the US abandon the old style name-number scheme? eg Bradford425? In the early mechanical switch days of the late forties it was necessary to try to slow down the end user from dialing too fast. Using the mental trick of substituting name for number did the trick. When faster mechanical phone switches showed up it was abandonded for pure digits.
Ole Phone Guy
TO: All
RE: Another Way of Putting a Response...
...to such a question...
Q: How Do You Feel About Abortion?
A: Don't worry. You'll never need one on MY account.
Action: Getting up smiling and leaving the table...and her the check.
Regards,
Chuck(le)
[Never lie down with a woman who has more problems than you.]
"How do you feel about abortion?"
"It's sure helping to pay for my boat."
You know, it's times like this I'm really glad I'm married.
Good heavens, please don't ever make me go back out there.
"How do you feel about abortion?"
"I don't see it on the menu here. I'll just have the steak."
If it's done to "litmus test" you, then it's bad. But if it's done as a conversational topic I am all for that. I don't know why americans have so many rules about what to talk and what not to talk on the first date. I am an open minded person and as long as other person is the same, we can always agree to disagree. This is probably one of the reasons why I find americans to be very superficial compared to people from other parts of the world.
Couldn't it be a test to see how the prospective partner would act in the event of an unplanned pregnancy?
If the two don't agree on abortion, they probably shouldn't have sex. It's only a "first date" question for people who are ... er ... fast.
For those knocking eharmony for being swamped with progressives: I must disagree. I've been on there for several years, and I keep getting uber-fundamentalist Christian types. (As in relating every single question on their profile to Jesus...)
Guess it depends on your settings...
TO: Anonymouse
RE: Napoleonic Strategies, Anyone?
"Couldn't it be a test to see how the prospective partner would act in the event of an unplanned pregnancy?" -- Anonymouse
Sounds like an all to clever girl using Napoleon's famous Indirect Approach, e.g., Australtiz Campaign. This girl is playing a clever game to her own advantage. She may have her biological clock ticking so loud it keeps her awake at night.
Either way, the message to any gentleman is clear, 'Flee at once!'. It's a trap!!!
Regards,
Chuck(le)
[Know your enemy and know yourself and you shall never be defeated. -- Sun Tzu]
Talk about 'Battle of the Sexes'!!!!?!
"How do you feel about abortion?"
Sure, I'm game.
Right here, or your place?
After a question like that not only will there not be a next date, there will not be this date, dinner, movie, or whatever this "date" was supposed to be. One does not bring nuclear weapons to small talk over dinner. In conclusion, I am soooo glad to be married and to not have to deal with that kind of silliness.
"How do you feel about abortion?"
Since I was already 5 when my mom tried it on me, well, I can say I was pretty pissed off. Why?
During the late 60's - and likely during other periods - in the military, there was a rule of etiquette in the O club bars: no discussion of sex, religion or politics. (Only heard the rule broken once when a drunk said the Viet Nam war was the worst thing that ever happened to the US. He didn't know a lot of history.) Always tried to follow that rule since then since it is a good way to avoid losing friends for no good reason.
I suppose discussing sex - circumspectly, of course - is extremely relevant to dating situations. But the marriage rate might be a lot higher if people learned to avoid religion and politics while dating. My wife and I - she is a liberal Democrat, raised in The People's Republic of Berkley; I am a conservative Republican raised by a father who thought Eisenhower was a radical. but we have still managed to stay married for 37 years, largely by ignoring political questions.
I guess there are few people with a taste for peace and quiet these days,
I think it's sort of interesting that pretty much everyone interprets the question as coming from a pro-choice viewpoint.
At any rate, I think I'm going to go with those who've said, "Isn't it better to know sooner?"
I'm not saying this from dating experience but from years of being too worried to bring up the wrong subjects with potential friends. Not abortion, but just interests. I've decided that it would have been much better to just let rip with all my strangeness, to let it be about me, just a little bit, because far too often I've found that I've *had* interests in common with people but never found it out. Instead of talking about those things we'd have both found interesting, I've spent years of association with people making painful small talk about toddlers.
I also have memories of blind dates that were one long "why did I ever let my friend talk me into this" only to find out, when it was all over, that he was going to the university I'd applied to and taking the major I was thinking of. And there was never another date there either because the date sucked.
Yes, those sorts of questions are normal "I'm interested in you" questions but they also put a person out there for rejection just as much as "this is who I am politically."
This year I've been married for 20 years. If something should happen to him and I face dating, I'll probably be on the rude side.
Oh, and to go on...
I think people over-estimate the necessity of finding someone like themselves. You can get all the right boxes checked but no matter who you marry, you'll disagree on most important things in some way or other. If you can't get along with someone, or they can't get along with someone, who thinks the other person is really wrong about some opinion they hold... it's going to suck.
For just such a question, at a time like that, I think the only possible response I could muster, is, "...Not nearly as good as I feel about draining my sperm into a condom during tonight's best-case one-off stand, because clearly you are a whackjob".
TO: Anonymouse
RE: Officers and O-Club Barroom Discussions
"I guess there are few people with a taste for peace and quiet these days," -- Anonymouse
My excuse is that I'm an ENTJ (Myers-Briggs Type Indicator). I LOVE 'discussion'. [Note: In my current status, I judge high school debate. Oddly enough the topic for Cross-X, this year, was close to that which I argued in 1968; Resolve: That the United States should adopt a system of universal military service ('68). Old home week with a unique idea of 'vengence'.]
At any rate....
John Wayne, in The Quiet Man, said, "Where I come from we don't talk about our women-folk in bars."
Now days, our women-folk are talking about us, men, on HBO....or so I've heard. [Note: I gave up on television in the late 90s.]
Tit-Tat and all of that, compadre.
Regards,
Chuck(le)
P.S. The US government stopped commissioning officers as 'gentleman' the year before I got my commission.
I suspect that it had something to do with West Points LCWB [Last Class With B---s].
What do YOU think?
[Ever people gets the society it 'deserves'.]
As with most things, I think the issues are best summarized in a South Park episode:
http://www.tv.com/south-park/erection-day/episode/417477/summary.html
"How do you feel about abortion?"
Well, never on a first date. And certainly not before even having sex. And only then if I can use my 'frequent flier' discount.
Dating. Feh! I recently thought the waters looked tempting. I stuck my toe in to see ... and got hit by an immediate chill. So much for that.
I am the One-Date Wonder ... one date, and then I am left to wonder where the hell he went. So, I speak with Zero Authority, except maybe as a bad example.
But for those who do lead somewhat normal lives, I wonder if blogging makes any difference. I mean, our opinions on all sorts of things are all out there available for all to see ... personal life events, problems at work and with family, annoyances, peccadilloes, hopes and dreams, and so on. I know of a few couples that met while blogging ... did having that information readily available either before or while dating make things easier? Or more difficult?
It would make an interesting study ...
I think a good answer would be, "I'll tell you in the morning."
Women would get more dates if they talked less. Men don't really need to hear everything about everything. We tend to only speak when we have something important to say. And I can do the "nod-along and "oh-really", but I usually wander off before the main course.
Mrs. Reynolds,
I was actually asked this once on a first date. I told her that I thought abortion was a crime against humanity and I could never be a party to one. That woman is now my wife and the mother of my two daughters.
By the way, she also asked me what I thought of, get this, teaching multiculturalism is schools. (She was a teacher before stay-at-home motherhood). I told her that America was the greatest country in the world, that it pissed me off that people sued over Christmas because their poor feelings were hurt, and that if people wanted to keep their language and not learn English, they should go home.
Oh, and she asked me what I thought about Albuquerque, her home. (We met while at Arizona State University). i told her from what I saw on Cops, it was a hell-hole and I would never live there. Guess where I live now?
There are no accidental people.
No one will ever show up before the judgement throne of God and surprise him.
"Wait a minute... where did you come from?!!?"
Just won't happen. Every life is the result of the creative intervention of God - every life, EVERY. LIFE. has value.
lots of good, smart-alecky responses here.
How about "anything Playboy is for, I'm for"?
TO: Brian
RE: Women
"That woman is now my wife and the mother of my two daughters." -- Brian
Let me guess....
....we can read about her other attributes in the latter part of Proverbs 31?
Regards,
Chuck(le)
P.S. I'm [happily] married to a similar woman.
Mrs. reynolds,
I had to share this as well. At law school, I said in a class that I would never marry a woman who wasn't a Christian or Catholic, who would even consider abortion as option if we were together and she got pregnant, if she wanted to put our kids in daycare to pursue her career instead of being a stay-at-home mother, and (I threw this in for good measure since we were in a criminal procdure class) who didn't believe in the death penalty. I was called everything from a sexist, bigot, to mysognist.
However, a quiet girl in the class who I had never met or spoke to came up to me the next date and asked me out on a date. I had to politely decline as my wife would have objected.
Good one Chuck!!
TO: uticn
RE: Except for....
"How about "anything Playboy is for, I'm for"?" -- uticn
...this one 'small' fact....
"16 But Jesus called them unto him, and said, Suffer little children to come unto me, and forbid them not: for of such is the kingdom of God.
17 Verily I say unto you, Whosoever shall not receive the kingdom of God as a little child shall in no wise enter therein." -- Luke 18:16-17
An interesting understanding of this passage would lead one to think that God requires us to accept children as a gift. And if we do not accept them, then we (1) are not accepting the One from whom such gifts are given and (2) will not enter into the 'kingdom of God'.
Just an thought.....
....for YOUR consideration.
Regards,
Chuck(le)
[Children, n., messages we send into a future we shall never see.]
TO: Brian
RE: Yeah....
"I was called everything from a sexist, bigot, to mysognist.' -- Brian
...we can expect that, just because we value our wives and children more than we value our own lives. [Note: That from the perspective of an infantry officer. And, looking on the fiasco of the Brit Royal Marines and swabbies vis-a-vis Iran.]
But I'm used to it. I've been a sexist, i.e., willing to lay down my life for women and children, before. Came with the oath I swore back in 1970, en route to—but not quite making—Nam.
If you're passing through Pueblo, Colorado, on vacation or business, drop me a line, via the e-mail. We'll put you up for the evening and provide you breakfast in the morning....if you survive the scotch and cigars on the back deck by the open-pit fire. If you don't, we'll provide a brunch, in stead.
Regards,
Chuck(le)
[A hand full of friends is worth more than a wagon full of gold.]
This does carry me back to those thrilling days of yesteryear:
-- The AR Loon who went round and round with me about hunting, then admitted she fed her dogs horsemeat.
-- The woman who announced she was too shallow to date a man 10 years older than she was (I believe this was called "tact").
-- The woman who would say, "God, that sounds SO INTERESTING. I can't this weekend, but you've GOT TO CALL ME and invite me for next time," when of course she was thinking, "How can this clotpoll ever have gotten the idea I'd go out with him?"
-- The woman who spent the first hour of the first date grilling me about career prospects, salary, LTCRs (long-term commited relationships), interest in re-breeding, etc, until I finally said, "Miss? Miss! Would it be OK if I finished my beer before I propose?"
I liked dating a lot, but there were moments when it seemed as if the looking glass had misted, wavered, and sucked me in to the world on the other side.
Chuck,
I passed through Pueblo once, in February 2005. Our daughter Emily was a little over a year old, and love Dora the Explorer. The live Dora show didn't come here, so we had to drive to Colorado Springs, about 450 miles or so to take her. I gave the tickets and the weekend as a surprise Christmas gift. Besides our mutual feelings on abortion,m religion, parenthood, etc., I knew she would be just as willing to drive up there just for a Dora show for our daughter as I was, and she wouldn't think I was nuts.
I will save the e-mail. I actually met Lee from Thinking while I was in L.A. I am a pretty friendly fella.
Oh, and thanks for your service.
In Male society these types of questions are not known as "litmus" tests. They are known as "shit" tests. As in how much shit will this guy take. Never answer an shit test directly. Ignore the shit test. Joke about the test. Turn the test back on her. exploit the shit test.
How do I feel about Abortion?
1. My sister had one last week, how could you ask!
2. I'm gay. It's not an issue.
3. I'm sterile. It's not an Issue.
4. I heard you had a couple of abortions; it doesnt matter to me.
5. Are you hitting on me.
6. I prefer oral, so abortion is not an issue.
7. I lost my penis in Afghanistan, its not an issue.
8. Girls scare me.
9. I had one when I was a woman.
Never answer a shit test and you will pass.
When dating you have a couple of options. You can read every self-help book there is on what to say and what not to say, then smile politely, ask lots of questions, keep your mouth shut and don't say anything offensive, and more than likely you will get asked out on a second date. One can keep this game up indefinitely and your man/woman will think you are the greatest thing since sliced bread. OR...you can just be who you are, say what is on your mind and ask some spirited questions. There is no guarantee that you will get asked out again but you will, at least, find out whether you and your date are compatible.
OK, like I said, these are called shit tests. Google it. or go here
http://www.fastseduction.com/cgi-bin/fswiki.cgi?Shit_Tests
Scroll down and read the Tyler Durden Posts.
Shit tests are good. It means she is trying to QUALIFY YOU. you pass if and only iff you ignore the test or make fun of the test.