Wednesday, March 28, 2007

Cut and Run or Stand Your Ground?

Michelle Malkin gives good advice to bloggers who receive threats. What would you do if threatened on the internet, stand your ground or turn tail and run?

53 Comments:

Anonymous TMink said...

I was threatened by a child abuser once. It was in my office and I was a novice therapist. He said I might have an accident on the way home. It really shook me, a lot, I was frightened.

But out of my fear came this weird bravado in which I invited him to attack me so I could sue him for assault and battery, protect his daughter from his sexual abuse and own his farm. I seem to recall offering to replace his tobacco allotment with kale or something like that.

Where in the world it came from, I do not know as it was all bluff. But it worked and he surrendered rights to his child two days later.

Today I would be less worried about something like that and much more comfortable with protecting myself with extreme prejudice against any physical attack.

Trey

10:02 AM, March 28, 2007  
Blogger Helen said...

Trey,

Perhaps I am a freak but I have rarely been frightened by my past patients who threatened to kill me, etc. That just goes with the territory of the work I do. I once was warned by an agency I worked with that if I evaluated a patient, her husband had threatened kill me. "Fine" I said, "send her over." I will not give into anyone who tries to intimidate me from doing my job or from blogging for that matter.

10:12 AM, March 28, 2007  
Blogger Oligonicella said...

Folks, you don't have to be a 'blogger', you simply have to air your views on the internet.

I've been threatened. Big deal. I gave him directions down to the farm. Next post, he came up with some lame excuse about how I and the county sheriff (like I even knew the man) would arrange an ambush.

The price of freedom, even your own personal freedom, is to look the creeps in the eye and tell them to screw themselves.

Those who choose the closet shouldn't complain about the dark.

10:20 AM, March 28, 2007  
Anonymous Sebastian said...

Stand my ground, for sure. I can't say a threat wouldn't make me feel a little uneasy, but it wouldn't stop me from living my life. Life is too short to live it scared.

10:32 AM, March 28, 2007  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Too many people see threats or insults behind every non-conforming or disagreeable opinion.

Stand your ground and don't fly off the handle. Too often the problems are caused by people overreating to what they perceive as "threats" when someone who merely communicates in a different way. Being online is like being in public, no matter how much people like to pretend they can control who goes where and says what when.

If you feel theatened, call the police and report the threats. They can help determine whether physical threats are real, or if you're merely reacting to being exposed to different ideas from different people with different communication styles. Consider password protection if you want to keep out public readers, and comment moderation if you want ultimate control of what gets posted on your website or blog.

One person says hosting a blog is like inviting guests into your living room for discussion; another says it's like pulling all your living room furniture out to the street and hosting your discussion there. If you're making it accessible to the public, you should expect all stripes of the public to read and respond. If there words are a credible threat to your phsyical being or property though, don't take the law into your own hands -- call police or go to court. It might help to get a second opinion on the validity of the "threat".

10:53 AM, March 28, 2007  
Blogger Helen said...

Anonymous 10:53:

Hopefully, most of us are not talking here about "miscommunication." Certainly, most people--unless they are unreasonable which is very possible on the internet-- should be able to tell the difference between a disagreement (i.e. I don't agree with your position) and a death threat (I want you dragged through the street with a noose around your neck etc.). As far as the police? Good advice but they often are no better at perceiving a threat than anyone else for that matter. I had a stalker once in NYC--I went to the police. Their take? Nothing we can do. Great. So you can't always count on law enforcement as a way to protect yourself and they are not always correct in their assessments. The good news is, most people rarely carry out these threats. The bad news? Those who do make no threats at all can often be more dangerous.

11:09 AM, March 28, 2007  
Blogger Peregrine John said...

Depending on the circumstance, my reaction is to either bare my teeth (metaphorically speaking) or (almost as metaphorically) draw my attorney and start swinging.

12:05 PM, March 28, 2007  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

What's up with the rape threats? Is that more of an Internet phenomenon? I cannot recall hearing rantings as deranged as those Malkin has received outside of a movie viewing. Love the fact that she reprints their email addresses, the more exposure the better.

1:09 PM, March 28, 2007  
Blogger dadvocate said...

Years ago, my father was arrested at an anti-war protest (Vietnam). The newspaper printed his name on the front page. We received anonymous phone calls from people threatening to come to our house and kill us. Whenever I answered one of these calls, I told them to come on over, I'd be sitting outside waiting for them with my shotgun.

No one took me up on the invitation.

I imagine 99.99% of blog threats are just as empty but you have to be ready for the .01%.

2:16 PM, March 28, 2007  
Blogger dadvocate said...

BTW - my father was exonerated.

2:17 PM, March 28, 2007  
Anonymous Dr. Ellen said...

"Communicating differently?" How multi-culti! Anonymous, was that your take on running airliners into the World Trade Center, too?

2:24 PM, March 28, 2007  
Blogger Peregrine John said...

"Communicating differently." Meaning, "assuming words have neither meaning nor consequence," it appears. Michelle Malkin's article wasn't just talking about name-calling and other juvenile asshattery. A death threat is a death threat, and I'm pretty sure - no, make that absolutely certain - that if the same were directed at the violent dimwits who allow themselves to actually post such dangerous bile, said dimwits would take it very seriously indeed.

3:16 PM, March 28, 2007  
Blogger Kim du Toit said...

I've had a couple of death threats, but one of the advantages of being a fairly well-known gunblogger is that you don't get too many threats of violence.

One guy did seriously offer to "come down to Texas" and kick my ass, but when I advised him to bring a gun (because I would surely bring one), he disappeared.

That said, I don't post my address, although I guess if one wanted to find me, it wouldn't be too difficult. But both The Mrs. and I are seldom more than a few feet from a gun, or several guns for that matter, and we both carry when we're out of the house.

So my standard response, whenever some guy threatens me, is to say: "Go ahead and try your luck. Just don't miss, because I seldom do."

It's not bravado, I just want to end the bullshit as quickly as I can.

So far, it works.

3:58 PM, March 28, 2007  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Certainly, most people--unless they are unreasonable which is very possible on the internet-- should be able to tell the difference between a disagreement (i.e. I don't agree with your position) and a death threat (I want you dragged through the street with a noose around your neck etc.). As far as the police? Good advice but they often are no better at perceiving a threat than anyone else for that matter. I had a stalker once in NYC--I went to the police. Their take? Nothing we can do. Great.

Apologies for not making myself clearer above.

I was thinking of situations that fall in between "I disagree with you" and "I'm coming over to kill you."

Specifically regarding online "stalking". Someone reads your blog at all hours when they are up? Comments about you on your blog, or elsewhere if the person is a public figure being discussed? To me, that's not stalking. My examples were aimed at the ambiguous. Just like with handgun ownership, you often see examples where a homeowner kills an unarmed person outside their home (ie/ a juvenile shot in the back in Florida running away after attempting to tie a fishing line on a neighbor's door knocker after midnight. The gun owner overreacted -- he could have stayed inside and called the police, used the weapon to frighten off the teen, but he overreacted and shot him in the back, killing him. He got off criminally, but lost civilly. Many think that man gives legitimate defensive gun/home owners a bad name -- maybe you can see why. That was my point in making sure you are not taking words/empty threats to the extreme.

I'm curious about the incidents of your stalking and why the police ignored it. Perhaps they felt your fears were genuinely unfounded. Perhaps without an active step in threatening you, they are right to acknowledge that no action can/should be taken against someone the would-be victim identifies as a stalker. Resources are limited; hopefully they assess right, as it sounds like they did.

4:40 PM, March 28, 2007  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

I really think one problem on this blog, for example, is only seeing black and white.

Of course running airplanes into buildings, or sending someone a picture with a noose and their picture can be interpreted as a death threat. But use your imagination because surely not all examples fit so neatly. (An angry teen yells at another "I'm going to kill you!" and appears to mean it. Death threat? Maybe in your line of work; generally though, no. That's my example of assessing the value of words and "miscommunication", sorry to disappoint those of you who assume it's all so easy other people must be stupid.

4:45 PM, March 28, 2007  
Blogger David said...

I don't know what the penalties are for threatening people with violence/death, but perhaps they need to be strengthened. There is far too much of this going on: even here in the US, Ayaan Hirsi Ali is receiving death threats.

Obviously, such statutes need to be drafted and interpreted carefully to avoid infringing on freedom of speech. But when there is a credible threat campaign against an individual--especially if it is an orchestrated conspiracy--it seems to me that a life sentence would be appropriate. And if the culprit continues to orchestrate the campaign while imprisoned, then execution should be an option.

5:24 PM, March 28, 2007  
Blogger Country Squire said...

Anonymous 4:45,

Has it occurred to you that some situations should not be viewed in “shades of gray”? You illustrate your point by using teenagers threatening to kill each other as a minor/non-existent threat – in the age of Columbine?

Words have meanings as well as consequences. In a civilized society, when is threatening to kill someone ever considered to be a good thing?

7:26 PM, March 28, 2007  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Just because of Columbine, we start to lock up (or execute?!) people based on our own overreacting fears? That's like justifying the gun owner shooting the unarmed kid in the back. Exactly what I'm talking about in the need for seeing the "greys" in the world.

You'd probably support those policies that see elementary kids being suspended for bringing a pocket knife to school because "you know how kids are these days."

Words have meanings as well as consequences. In a civilized society, when is threatening to kill someone ever considered to be a good thing?

I'm not advocating it, but to assume that harsh words necessarily equals real-life intent is just plain silly. Ever heard of people talking out in anger, or does that not happen in your culture? Bet you don't play any sweaty sports, either. You might want to stay inside with your doors locked and your tv off -- it's a verbally offensive world out there these days.

8:23 PM, March 28, 2007  
Blogger Helen said...

Anonymous 4:40:

I am not as stupid or naive as you would like to make me out to be. The stalker was not online, it was in real actual life and I was stalked for several years--calls at my home night and day, the guy waiting for me etc. The reason they ignored it? NYC in the late 80's. No stalking laws, no mace allowed to be carried and no guns allowed. I left soon afterwards to live in a place like Tennessee where people understand that people have a right to protect themselves. Luckily, there are reasonable people here who understand the need for self-defense.

9:04 PM, March 28, 2007  
Blogger Country Squire said...

Anonymous,

Gather up all of your straw men and go home. You seem to know a great deal about people you don’t know. If you had a cogent argument you would have made it by now. I’m a big boy, I can handle you being “verbally offensive”; it’s your intellectual offensiveness that bores me.

I believe this post was originally about whether or not one should stand ones ground in the face of death threats. Put me firmly in the “stand your ground” category.

9:18 PM, March 28, 2007  
Anonymous brian said...

I believe the proper response is "Bring it, bitch."

And if one shows up at the door? Maybe I'll introduce them to Mr. Base Ball Bat, maybe I'll let them talk to my dog.

10:26 PM, March 28, 2007  
Anonymous silvermine said...

It's easy to say it doesn't bother you and to stand your ground if you can back it up with something.

Being a small, out of shape woman with two small children, I don't really feel I can.

Hence, why I'm anonymous.

12:14 AM, March 29, 2007  
Blogger Purple Avenger said...

Exactly what I'm talking about in the need for seeing the "greys" in the world.

So exactly how much death threat is OK with you? Could you kinda lay out your guidelines in broad strokes?

12:14 AM, March 29, 2007  
Blogger jw said...

I've got a one inch red binder half full of death & violence threats. It's been years since I added anything to it. There are others who have entire shelves full of threats. I'm thinking of a Canadian Senator, her shelf full of threats is more than six feet long.

People behave badly, they should be made to apologize at the very least.

Silvermine: These days I could threaten them with my wife. She's a truly tiny woman, with arthritis too. But, underneath that tiny appearance is a pit-bull. Small means nothing.

3:52 AM, March 29, 2007  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Maybe y'all should stop watching tv, and get more involved in your communities?

Sounds like a lot of fear, anger, poor health percolating out there based on imaginary threats. You'll slowly killing yourselves if you choose to wallow in this mindset, y'know.

10:20 AM, March 29, 2007  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Just curious:
Are any of you Christians who have accepted Jesus Christ into your lives? Maybe there's something missing? heh

10:21 AM, March 29, 2007  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

I also wonder how many of you have healthy sex lives, or eat properly and exercise regularly.

Sorry if that seems insulting but there seems a need to create ways to release stress for some of you.

10:24 AM, March 29, 2007  
Anonymous TMink said...

Wow anon, you sure know a lot about us! Remarkable talent considering you only read a few posts.

Trey

11:38 AM, March 29, 2007  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Relax tmink.
I doubt anonymous was talking about you personally -- don't start perceiving insults to you where there are non. Good advice to all!

11:51 AM, March 29, 2007  
Blogger Video said...

Don't really want to end what is apparently a threadjack, but I didn't get how any of Michelle Malkin's examples could be considered legitimate threats. "Somebody should..." or "Let's all..." isn't threatening; it's just chatter. "I kill you" or other similarly phrased pidgin English sent by a purported Muslim is just noise. There's a huge difference between unpleasant, insulting speech and a threat.

Amid all the good things we can say about widespread Internet access, the worst thing is that the medium gives a voice to people who lack the social skills to participate in even the most basic real-time conversation. These people are ineffectual in every respect, to say nothibng of being able to act on a threat of violence.

In my experience, threats are typically expressions of impotent anger. People who would harm you won't waste time threatening you -- they'll act.

3:32 PM, March 29, 2007  
Blogger Video said...

Okay, so I read through the Kathy Sierra stuff. My take? She's being a drama queen. Nerds writing bizarre sexually explicit nonsense would not make a reasonable person fear for her life. (Use of Massad-Ayoob-like justification for use of deadly force language style intentional.)

3:42 PM, March 29, 2007  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

In answer to the original question, not only stand your ground but "out" them. The reason Franke Ruta went tongue tied in her confrontation with Ann Althouse was that Franke Ruta didn't anticipate she would have to defend the actions of her friends when she brought up the issue. Nobody wants to find themself knee deep in slime with everyone saying "You did it."

Ask Senator Jerry Springer (D-OH) how being a slime merchant advanced his political career.

When an intern at Dewey, Cheatham, and Howe finds himself having to answer for an anonymous post full of four letter words and such phrases as "don't keep Satan waiting." That will be the end of it.

4:29 PM, March 29, 2007  
Blogger SGT Ted said...

"It's easy to say it doesn't bother you and to stand your ground if you can back it up with something.

Being a small, out of shape woman with two small children, I don't really feel I can.

Hence, why I'm anonymous."

Thats why handguns are so marvelous.

4:50 PM, March 29, 2007  
Anonymous Max said...

Okay, so I read through the Kathy Sierra stuff. My take? She's being a drama queen.

I'd gotten that impression as well. At this point she's baiting her harassers(s).

It's strange that someone who purports to be an expert on the interaction of technology, society, and community is unaware of the types of communications that often occur in this domain.

6:08 PM, March 29, 2007  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

What would be required for someone to take a threat seriously enough to take preventative action, and for society to consider it illegal?

"Someone should whack you."
Is that enough? It is for me, but evidently not for some.

Sending someone a picture of themself with a noose? Thats enough for me too. A fine of 1% of your total wealth or $1000 dollars, whichever is more, seems reasonable to me. And then maybe we can have Internet Bounty Hunters who try to track down these felons for a reward...

As to the notion that a Muslim is no threat because of a lack of skillz, tell it to Theo Van Gogh. A dagger works just fine in the oh-so-modern world.

Tennwriter

7:49 AM, March 30, 2007  
Anonymous Dr. Ellen said...

Tennwriter -

"A dagger works just fine ..."

This is a truth we all forget at our peril. We live in the Information Age - but the other ages are still with us.

The Stone Age? We're still there. We build with stone, throwing rocks still works, and flaked glass is still the sharpest edge we can easily manufacture. (For a while, they were using flaked-glass scalpels for eye surgery. The stone knife is alive and well, though our glass now comes from factories instead of volcanos.)

The Bronze Age? The Iron Age? Look at those statues, at the skeletons of those buildings going up!

The Industrial Age? That's still how we build things.

All those ages are still there, still functional. But they don't necessarily play nicely together. Our living in the Information Age, talking on an information medium like the Internet, does not immunize us from having to deal with the occasional caveman or cavewoman with a club.

Which is the real question here: how do I know that loudmouth doesn't have a club or a sword as well as a keyboard?

9:25 AM, March 30, 2007  
Blogger geekWithA.45 said...

Oddly, we gunbloggers get very little hate mail, almost zero death threats*.

Gee, I wonder why that is.

;)



*I am aware of precisely one death threat against a gun blogger, but that was an exceptional and predictable case.

3:00 PM, March 30, 2007  
Blogger RobC said...

That is why blogs have tools like moredation etc. but being of the male persuasion of the military kind with plenty of rough mates I would tell a threatner/stalker to come and visit me and my friends at my favourite biker pub... I doubt they would show though... :-)

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