Jonah Goldberg on Liberal Fascism
Today, we interview Jonah Goldberg on his controversial new book, Liberal Fascism: The Secret History of the American Left, From Mussolini to the Politics of Meaning.
He talks about how people throw the word fascism around without really understanding its meaning, why so many liberals want to turn America into a college campus with free food, shelter and recreation, and why the upcoming election is about collective vs. individual rights.You can listen to the show directly -- no downloads needed -- by going right here and clicking on the gray Flash player. You can download the whole file and listen at your leisure by clicking right here, and you can get a lo-fi version suitable for dialup by going here and selecting "lo fi." And, of course, you can always get a free subscription from iTunes if you like -- and why wouldn't you? Show archives are at GlennandHelenShow.com.
This podcast was brought to you by Volvo Automobiles. Music is "Nobody's Full" by Todd Steed and the Suns of Phere.
posted by Helen at 6:36 AM
88 Comments:
I look forward to reading the book. I have always found JG to be thoughtful and disciplined in his work.
I recently abandoned a doctoral program ABD. The part that I look back on was how much bending I had to do just to have interaction with most of the faculty and the undergraduates. Yes, there were some faculty who held to the classic definition of liberal. They hosted free debate without so mcuh as a raised eyebrow. But the dominate, oppressive mindset was a very caustic mix of anti-Bush, anti-establishment, and censored speech for those who disagree.
I wonder what event will cause a balance to be attained in higher education and in larger society.
Great work! I can't wait to read the book (and I'm already feeling less guilty about my Godwin's Law violations....)
Might the Bush=Hitler comparisons actually be a form of projection?
Other than his mother Lucianne, can you tell us what qualifies this young man to call himself an expert, much less write a book?
Didn't he get he go to that girls' school Goucher College? Is that where he gets his expertise on college campuses?
If not for the Lewinsky Clinton scandal and his mother advising Linda Tripp, wouldn't he be cooking up Pop Tarts right now?
Thanks, Helen, should be an interesting listen!
Since I had labeled on of my philosophy professors a "liberal fascist" back in the 70s, the title intrigued me enough that I listened to an entire podcast for the first time. I'm glad I did.
The historical background of fascism is important to know. I like Golberg's question he asks leftist college students, besides killing millions of people, what don't you like about Nazism?
I'm very much an individual rights supporter and believe in "rugged individualism." Government is needed to a degree but we don't need Hillary's village to raise our kids, etc. I'm glad people like Jonah Goldberg are writing books.
BTW - I knew Todd Steed a little when he was a kid. He was a friend of my first wife's brothers. It's neat that he's become an accomplished musician.
dadvocate,
So glad you decided to listen to your first podcast--I think this was a good one, especially if you are a rugged individualist--I count myself in that group except I'm not very rugged--wish I was.
I can't believe you knew Todd Steed-he's a great guy and a very good musician.
It's cute how all you (rugged or non-) individualists don't credit your family connections for your notoriety and "success".
He, his Mom.
You, your hubby.
I really do wonder why Goldberg didn't go to a better, more competitive undergrad.
Dr. Helen:
Please forgive me for genially reminding a troll to quit being a troll. Normally, feeding a troll is a bad business, but this Mary person is not an terrible person, and this trollishness is unlike her.
Mary, I have a friend (a nice leftist progressive) who attended Goucher College at the same time as Mr. Goldberg.
My friend really dislikes Mr. Goldberg, by the way. Even though I don't believe you share my friend's politics, you certainly are just as judgmental and nasty about Goldber as my friend. He, at least, had met Goldberg and interacted with him in person for several years.
Goucher has been coed for 21 years. You could have looked that up, but I suspect it is more fun to play the "girls' school" insult game for you. Cheap shot, though.
My friend who went to that "worse, less competitive" school that you were so judgmental of was recently awarded tenure at Caltech in the sciences.
Oh, and among small liberal arts schools, Goucher ranks in the top 100, nation wide.
I have several colleagues who teach at Goucher College. They work hard to do the best job they can, with genuinely good students.
You are acting like a nasty trollish snob, and I don't know why. I went to your blog, and as I scanned over your entries, you were measured and moderate in your statements. I was particularly moved by your comments regarding the barbaric assassination of Bhutto.
So why be rude to Goldberg, or Dr. Helen for that matter? You don't know them.
It's what trolls do. You don't have comments on your blog, and maybe that is why? You don't want to deal with trolls. Reading your comments to Dr. Helen's site, I can imagine why.
By the way, I went to Stanford for my PhD. And here is something you might benefit from: before each person is awarded a PhD at Stanford, they are giving a little seminar about how NOT to act like a offensive snob in the future.
I would prefer to just ignore your comments above, and focus on some of the insightful, interesting things you posted on your blog. In this holiday season, why not be nicer?
Remember the play "Harvey"? In it, Elwood P. Dowd reminds the audience that his mother had told him that he could be oh so smart or oh so pleasant. Dowd than says that he recommends pleasant.
So do I.
Sorry for the long post, folks.
I've got my snacks and soda, leaning back to get comfy. Carry on people, an exciting evening is ahead.
Cham - LOL!
I saw your comment. Scrolled up. Understood completely.
Goucher has been coed for 21 years. You could have looked that up, but I suspect it is more fun to play the "girls' school" insult game for you. Cheap shot, though.
My friend who went to that "worse, less competitive" school that you were so judgmental of was recently awarded tenure at Caltech in the sciences.
Your friend isn't using his "education" to constantly lament the liberal troubles on college campuses, though, is he?
Maybe Mr. Goldberg would have more credibility as a campus critic had he actually attended one of the non-liberal arts, top-flight colleges where there wasn't so much p.c. coddling and you actually learned to .... think.
So, it's clearly a fair question: why didn't Mr. Goldberg choose -- or was he a weak candidate for admission -- a more challenging undergrad school than one traditionally catering to women's needs? Methinks some of ye are avoiding the question, and not too skillfully either.
Like Barack Obama, Mr. Goldberg seems to have one special credential that helped his career along -- in his case, his Mama and her advising of Linda Tripp.
Ah, trolls! It is the Christmas season, and Scandinavian myth-figures abound.
Actually, Mary, my Caltech friend is very proud of his Goucher education, though he is as about as far to the Left as Goldberg is to the Right. Funny how everything isn't about politics.
And if you can find a college that doesn't do any PC coddling...well, your statement suggests to me that you haven't actually been to college.
Say, Mary, where did you go to college? Do you have a higher degree? If so, from where? Academic honors? Publish any books? Have you ever been paid to write anything? Are you known for *anything* other than this kind of negative interaction? Proof please---and keep in mind YOU are the one getting all snotty about colleges.
I sense the scent of sour grapes in the air.
I'm just curious how much *better* you have done in your life, having (presumably) gone to such a better college for undergraduate education? Remember, you are the one acting the snob; even Goldberg doesn't do that.
Do tell. Please provide a CV for *all* to see. Love to see how well your superior education has taken you.
Again, YOU are the one acting the snob, attacking colleges that you never bother to research---as I wrote before, and even flippin' Wikipedia states, Goucher went coed over two decades ago. So put up or shut up. In detail.
Or spend some time writing some of the well reasoned and pleasant posts I have seen on your blog. Isn't that a better use of your time?
Methinks, to quote you, you just want some blog traffic. I wonder why?
Again: how much better to be pleasant than "smart."
I've read enough of the extended excerpts at sadlyno to see what use Jonah Pantloads screed is good for. Two pages covers the bottom of my birdcage quite nicely. Luckily, my little budgie doesn't read, otherwise it would be cruel to the bird.
I wont buy the book of course, just nab my wingnut neighbors copy.
It amazes me how quickly the "reality based community" is to avoid critical thinking in the case of this book. Goldberg has apparently really hit a sore spot. It's a shame that so many who profess to be so smart can discount a book with nothing more than slurs and innuendo.
Then again, I recall a certain style of governance that begins with an "F" doing exactly the same thing.
Panty Doughload's book will one day be remembered as a watershed event in our culture.
After it's publication, anybody who claimed to believe that it's not the most hilariously clueless nonsense in the history of hilariously clueless nonsense would have to officially forfeit any claim to be a rational human being whose opinions could ever be taken seriously.
This is a significant accomplishment, and I for one applaud Panty Doughload for providing such a signal service.
Really. It kind of scares me that someone is a "forensic psychologist" and takes the likes of Jonah Goldberg seriously.
Perhaps it's yet another illustration of the truth of an epiphany I had some years ago: that between George W. Bush and Charles Manson, there's quite a bit of difference in magnitude, if not in style.
Manson's groupies are largely harmless now, behind bars or beyond their prime.
But Bush's groupies are still doing "Helter Skelter" on the rest of the world.
And proof of it is the fact that there's a "forensic psychologist," Void help us, in Knoxville, who takes Goldberg seriously.
I can only hope that you don't damage your subjects enough to cause more violence.
I have always wondered how comments written by Stewie Griffin would read. Eric Blair clears up the mystery.
George Orwell wants his name back, by the way.
Golly, considering the fact that the book isn't even on sale yet he certainly does have Certain Peoples' knickers in a twist.
Prolly because he misses the mark so wildly that they take offense to the Wildly Missed Mark of it. And everything.
Must be obvious since no one's talking about, you know: The merits of his argument. Or otherwise.
The Nazis enjoyed high-fiber diets.
Liberals enjoy high-fiber diets.
The Nazis were a bunch of homos.
Liberals are a bunch of homos. (Note that GAY MARRIAGE is legal in ultra-liberal Massachusetts).
The Nazis started a war that drew in much of the world.
Liberals are always starting wars.
The Nazis built factories to exterminate human beings.
Liberals love building factories to exterminate human beings.
The Nazis spoke German.
Liberals speak Esperanto.
Nazis wore really cool uniforms.
Liberals secretly wear really cool uniforms (behind closed doors).
Nazis performed medical experiments on prisoners.
Liberals want to destroy viable embryos for fun but disguise their mirth as "medical experiments."
The Nazis hated Jews.
Liberals want Iran to wipe Israel off the face of the earth using nuclear weapons.
I could go on and on.
The fact is that when one speaks of Nazis or Liberals he or she is really speaking about a single large group of essentially the same people.
Neonazism runs rampant in traditionally liberal places in the US like San Francisco, New York and Boston.
Liberals are trying to bring back the arm-band as hip fashion, with or without the swastika. Part of the reason that Liberals love Michael Jackson so much is that he has long carried the torch of the modern arm-band fashion movement.
Liberals also respect Michael Jackson because he's part of the conspiracy to make aberrant sexual behavior involving adults and minors acceptable. What a better spokesperson for the liberal movement?
I can't wait to read Jonah's book because I'm sure that he's explored these issues and many others in much finer detail than I am capable of.
Arbeit Macht Frei!
The Nazi's killed all the Social Democrats and Communists. The means of production were held privately in Nazi Germany which made them capitalists. A few social programs does not make a a socialist. It makes one a politician trying to get get or keep support. They also banned labor unions. That isn't very Socialist. Its sounds Republican.
Because they found efficient methods of murder and burning of the bodies did not make them environmentalists either. They used mass transportation to fill death camps too.
Do you think if they made Jews drive their own cars to Auschwitz they would have been Libertarians?
Ans, Helen, btw , I am writing a book : "Conservative Communism: The Secret History
of the American Right from Marx to Mission Accomplished"
Looking ahead to be invited on your show...
The book is about a movement. One should listen to the podcast, and then agree or disagree.
Every negative response so far has been an attack on a personal level.
Rule # 5.
br549,
It's doubtful here that many of the negative commenters read the book. Surprisingly, even Publishers Weekly who leans left gave the book a good review.
Sashal,
If you get the book published, it is as well researched and documented as Mr. Goldberg's book and you want to send us a copy to look at for our show, we'll be happy to consider having you on!
br549,
personal?
I personally attacked the stupid ideas of the stupid book.
I never said anything personal about idiot manipulative liar - Jonah.
Helen, thank you, but if you can call Jonah's book well researched, may be i should seek the audience with real understanding of the history and philosophy, not the one's who appreciate the lazy workings of some unethical hack
Goldbergs premise is based on a throw away line from one speech, used out of context. It is patently false. Goldbergs scholarship is embarrassing in it's deceit and conceit. He seems incapable of understanding Wells, which doesn't surprise me. Since without mommies coattails, he'd be properly unknown.
Jonah, would a honorary PHD in Sophistry make you crawl back into mommies basement to a life of Cheetos and Mountain Dew?
Perhaps the reason that so many are getting their knickers in a bunch is that a variety of people who consider themselves "thoughtful" and "educated" are giving credence and serious thought to and idea that's blatantly idiotic straight out of the gates? Does anyone really want to be the next wave of 9/11 truthers?
...as well researched and documented as Mr. Goldberg's book...
You didn't read it either, did you, "Dr."
...though, based on your record, you really don't understand research or documentation, do you?
It's interesting and telling that most of the "anti" comments are not directed at the ideas themselves but consist of personal comments and pot-shots at the author himself. It is also doubtful that any of those with such comments have read the book themselves. Glenn and Helen actually have.
If you really think Jonah's book is the same thing as 9/11 trutherism, then discuss it rationally. I don't call Truthers "Pantsy McFatLoad" or whatever cutsie little names the trolls have come up with. Do you?
Jeez folks....
The proper nickname used for Jonah is Doughboy Pantload. It's a metaphore of sorts. If you haven't seen it before, you haven't read too many progressive web sites then, have you?
Those of us who read SadlyNo! have been reading parts of this book for a week or more now.
Why do you all think this "well researched" book took over FOUR YEARS to get to print? We who read SadlyNo! know why.
Let's start a pool to see how quickly this "fine literary work" hits the remainder bin.
I read the actual book passages and commentary at Sadly, No! which strongly challenge the notion that the book is "well researched", including nonsensical statements about animal rights, healthy eating, homosexuals, prohibition, religion, McCarthism, etc. It seems that they effectively managed to eviscerate the book using its own words.
Still, I'd be interested to know the counter argument. What passages are well researched, and what outside sources back up that contention? Where are the mistakes in the analysis done by Sadly, No!?
Every last one of these point can be found to have happened under republican leadership.
1.)Powerful and Continuing Nationalism: Fascist regimes tend to make constant use of patriotic mottos, slogans, symbols, songs, and other paraphernalia.
2.)Disdain for the Recognition of Human Rights: Because of fear of enemies and the need for security, the people in fascist regimes are persuaded that human rights can be ignored in certain cases because of "need."
3.)Identification of Enemies/Scapegoats as a Unifying Cause: The people are rallied into a unifying patriotic frenzy over the need to eliminate a perceived common threat or foe: racial, ethnic or religious minorities; liberals; communists; socialists, terrorists, etc.
4.) Supremacy of the Military: Even when there are widespread domestic problems, the military is given a disproportionate amount of government funding, and the domestic agenda is neglected.
5.)Rampant Sexism: The governments of fascist nations tend to be almost exclusively male-dominated. Opposition to abortion is high, as is homophobia and anti-gay legislation and national policy.
6.)Controlled Mass Media: Sometimes the media is directly controlled by the government, but in other cases, the media is indirectly controlled by government regulation, or sympathetic media spokespeople and executives.
7.)Obsession with National Security: Fear is used as a motivational tool by the government over the masses.
8.)Religion and Government are Intertwined: Governments in fascist nations tend to use the most common religion in the nation as a tool to manipulate public opinion.
9.)Corporate Power is Protected: The industrial and business aristocracy of a fascist nation often are the ones who put the government leaders into power, creating a mutually beneficial business/government relationship and power elite.
10.)Labor Power is Suppressed: Because the organizing power of labor is the only real threat to a fascist government, labor unions are either eliminated entirely, or are severely suppressed.
11.)Disdain for Intellectuals and the Arts: Fascist nations tend to promote and tolerate open hostility to higher education, and academia. It is not uncommon for professors and other academics to be censored or even arrested.
12.)Obsession with Crime and Punishment: Under fascist regimes, the police are given almost limitless power to enforce laws. The people are often willing to overlook police abuses and even forego civil liberties in the name of patriotism.
13.)Rampant Cronyism and Corruption: Fascist regimes almost always are governed by groups of friends and associates who appoint each other to government positions and use governmental power and authority to protect their friends from accountability.
14.)Fraudulent Elections: Sometimes elections in fascist nations are a complete sham. Other times elections are manipulated by smear campaigns against or even assassination of opposition candidates, use of legislation to control voting numbers or political district boundaries, and manipulation of the media. Fascist nations also typically use their judiciaries to manipulate or control elections.
So you see Goldberg is full of shit when he blames americas current state of fascisim on liberals.
The man is as lier, it's not his fault, his mother was a lier.
Dr. Helen I am gay. I heard you can make me straight.
So if you could wave your magic wand over my gay head I would appreciate it.
Thanks.
BDS, on display above.
Heather,
You claim BDS on my part.
Give one example where my post is not accurate about the current republican administration.
Or do you always make claims you can't support with the facts?
Oh and by the way, "your" president is deranged.
Evolouie said... Give one example where my post is not accurate about the current republican administration.
Don't hold your breath. BDS is a catchphrase used by Bush apologists when they don't like what you've posted. They hold it up like vampire hunter holds up a cross and garlic. "Begone, foul repeater of facts! BEGONE!"
I've yet to see anybody who uses this term even try to mount an adequate defense of the administration using, you know, facts and stuff. They best I've seen is quoting of bloggers and media figures that also defend GW without using any real facts.
And 4 hours later, I'm still waiting for a fact based defense of Jonah's book.
too bad, I used to like VOLVOs.
I think they can do without me buying their neocon supporting cars
Evolouie said... Give one example where my post is not accurate about the current republican administration.
Only one? My line for someone who is beyond arguing with is simple. Do they believe Bush stole the 2004 election? If they do then they have BDS and are not worth debating with.
I'll keep it simple. I don't really like Bush that much. I only agree with him on national defense.
Uhhh...Heather?
This thread isn't about you. I'm not a trained psychologist but I would guess that someone who wants to make all conversation about them might have some issues that need to be addressed.
But I do understand that speech on a web site is cheaper than seeing a shrink. Maybe the good Professor here can give you a pointer or two...
I don't know if I'll read the book, but I do enjoy reading an occasional blog post from Goldberg. I know there are religious conservatives that want the government to force people to be moral, but it seems like generally it is the progressives that want the government to force you to live a certain way.
Mary, Wikipedia has a good overview of his education and writing experience. It looks like most of it came before 1998 and Clinton's adultery.
I do hope you'll interview me at some point about my better, more entertaing version of "Liberal Fascism."
Wow. A lot of foaming mouths and flaming foreheads. This is an absolute blast to read.
I have no clue about liberal fascism, for all I know I might be one. But the real question that begs to be answered is whether the Goucher Bambis are liberal fascists and do they deserve to die a horrible and painful death?
This comment has been removed by a blog administrator.
Dr Helen,
My, my, Jonah's work has brought them all out.
Let's see, first we have folks saying that a forensic psych doesn't understand research. Hee hee hee. That's one troll that's a write-off.
I'm not saying you are necessarily sufficiently critical of Goldberg's work -- that's potentially a plausible argument. But since I'm married to an ed. psych. myself, I do understand that you had to take all sorts of analyses, exp. methods, etc. It reminds me of the trolls who argued that two economists from CRS didn't have the knowledge to tear apart a meta-analysis on the subject of "second-hand smoke" -- another laughable idea.
Oh, and we have "that girls' school," "cooking up pop-tarts," and "more competitive," which are textbook examples of argumentum ad hominem. Again, an argument that "perhaps so-and-so's sample size was too small" -- which would be arguing with the experiment -- is discarded in favor of the intellectually-bankrupt cheap shot.
As for excepts from sadlyno, why not cross-post one or two specifics ? That way, it's not a "my website can lick your website" argument. Especially when combined with other ad hominems (ad homina ?) like "wingnut" and "Panty Doughload." Useful shorthand for "I have no serious argument to make, so I'll call people names."
Much the same can be said of analogies between George Bush and Charles Manson.
So sashal, my hearty thanks. At least one person who begins by making what seems to be a counter-argument. As I have not read the book, I can neither endorse nor rebut your first two comments, but they were refreshing in the absence of profanity and lack of ad hominem. I think br549 overlooked your early posts in his blanket statement about such things. On the other hand, sashal, are you really going to boycott Volvo for supporting one podcast whose author you disagree with ? Can you see what that says about your interest in freedom of expression ? Do you seriousoly consider yourself "progressive" with that attitude ? There are many authors with whom I disagree, but to consider this book that egregious is pretty far out.
Mind you, sashal is one of the few arguing against the book that I think I could actually converse with.
I weep for the death of civil discourse. I really don't like the current administration. But I will not abandon my sense of proportion over it. Nor will I sacrifice freedom of expression over it.
It's ironic. The more vitriolic some of these posters become, the more I begin to think -- not having read the book yet -- that the author is on to something. Groupthink is pretty darned dangerous. And far too many -- on the left in this example -- are engaging in it.
Heather,
I'm not here to argue as you suggest.
"Only one? My line for someone who is beyond arguing with is simple. Do they believe Bush stole the 2004 election? If they do then they have BDS and are not worth debating with."
Lets debate the facts about current american fascisim.
Then if you still have it in you after i kick your ass on that one we'll debate the 2004 election.
"He's a stupid poopy pants" seems to be the level of criticism here.
(s)asshal pretty clearly showed bad faith in asking for a book-related invite. once it was offered, it became "helen is a poopy head not smart enough to interview me" which actually means (s)asshal could never hope to get a book published and could never make a compelling case during a podcast.
where are all the u.s. dissidents being locked away for criticizing Bush? if bush were fascist, every member of DKos would be in jail. the commenter above who regurgitated some list regarding fascism has missed this fairly obvious fact. and ward churchill the serial plagiarizer without adequate academic credentials doesn't count.
unless i'm mistaken goucher is similar to radcliffe (harvard) in its relationship to johns hopkins.
Heather,
I'm not here to argue as you suggest.
"Only one? My line for someone who is beyond arguing with is simple. Do they believe Bush stole the 2004 election? If they do then they have BDS and are not worth debating with."
Lets debate the facts about current american fascisim.
Then if you still have it in you after i kick your ass on that one we'll debate the 2004 election.
yes, br549, if only you had a slightest clue what people here are talking about.
so far we all had seen from you just mindless spews...
HEATHER, nobody is talking about bush here.
We are talking about fascism and Jonah' stupidity
btw, Dr.Helen, censorship is the form of the fascism as well
Identification of Enemies/Scapegoats as a Unifying Cause: The people are rallied into a unifying patriotic frenzy over the need to eliminate a perceived common threat or foe: racial, ethnic or religious minorities; liberals; communists; socialists, terrorists, etc.
You forgot Republicans, Christians, Conservatives, White Males
_______________________
Supremacy of the Military: Even when there are widespread domestic problems, the military is given a disproportionate amount of government funding, and the domestic agenda is neglected.
The military has a much smaller portion of national expenditure than domestic agendas.
I find the local police much more intrusive into ordinary Americans' lives, and more and more they are focusing on crimes in our homes drugs, alcohol, domestic abuse, fastening seat belts, cameras for stop lights, etc. This comes from Democrats as much or more than Republicans.
Conservatives want the church to judge and apply peer pressure for morality, ok bad enough, but liberal fascists want to POLICE morality - much, much worse.
____________________________
13.)Rampant Cronyism and Corruption: Fascist regimes almost always are governed by groups of friends and associates who appoint each other to government positions and use governmental power and authority to protect their friends from accountability.
Sounds like New Orleans, Detroit, Chicago, Philadelphia, San Francisco, all run by Democrats !
_______________________
10.)Labor Power is Suppressed: Because the organizing power of labor is the only real threat to a fascist government, labor unions are either eliminated entirely, or are severely suppressed.
Oh my God! I didn't know the NEA and AFSCME were being repressed! I thought they had a monopoly!
________________________
5.)Rampant Sexism: The governments of fascist nations tend to be almost exclusively male-dominated. Opposition to abortion is high, as is homophobia and anti-gay legislation and national policy.
This is hilarious! You must have forgotten to take that History course your school offered. This means every government in history was fascist!
_______________________
2.)Disdain for the Recognition of Human Rights: Because of fear of enemies and the need for security, the people in fascist regimes are persuaded that human rights can be ignored in certain cases because of "need."
It seems, once again, that every country in the world is and was fascist, except perhaps Norway Sweden, and Canada which all survive by being protected by a "fascist" state anyway and are thus complicit - Of course the USA has no concern for human rights - never has, never will. Only dweebs like yourself believe in human rights, and you are so impotent - you can't make anyone do what you want because you don't believe in force. You won't fight a war for it - you just bitch and feel superior. But you will believe in force once you achieve power. Then it will be quite fine and justified. That's the legacy, and you can see it in the hate and psychological projection.
___________________
1.)Powerful and Continuing Nationalism: Fascist regimes tend to make constant use of patriotic mottos, slogans, symbols, songs, and other paraphernalia.
Ya mean like Che T-shirts, No blood for oil, Give peace a chance, Bush is Hitler?
Lots of sloganeering, symbols songs,come from the left Niel Young Impeach the President, Bruce Springsteen, Hollywood movies, Fahrenheit 911
___________________
Leftists have become what they hate and this shows in their vitriol.
You hate yourselves and you project yourselves onto your perceived enemy and use that enemy to take out your intense frustrations.
You buck each other up with name-calling and peer coercion and so many of you are moral cowards and intellectual midgets. You haven't had an original thought in decades!
Peace and love from a real Liberal
And now another rightwing website that wont post valid to the point rebutals.
Your all the same, can't face the facts.
You folks might be interested to know that these trolls are likely employees of an opposition research firm.
We've seen them appear wherever Goldberg's book is mentioned. They set-up new accounts with the forum and proceed to post a scripted set of diversions and criticisms.
If you don't engage them, they'll become increasingly threatening and antisemitic. These tactics ensure that your forum is blacklisted by filtering software.
The reason that we suspect that they've been hired is that their posts are obviously scripted and follow the same pattern of escalation. It's likely that this is the work of only one or two people. They're using software that automates the discovery and posting process.
matt:
I've noticed that. I call it the Hillalinsky method.
Franco you ignorant fool,
you call me a moral midget, yet you proved my very point when you threw in your true view and added
that silly part about " christian, conservative, white males"
Your just like Heather, you think it's all about you.
Matt,
You seem to have some paranoid delusions about a blacklisting conspiracy. Whats that all about?
Do any of you have any facts?
Again I say:
Goldberg is full of shit when he blames americas current state of fascisim on liberals.
The man is as lier, it's not his fault, his mother was a lier.
Look all of you guys areway off the mark. Do a little history checking and you'll find that:
Prescott Bush and his father in law, George Herbert Walker, were in business with Nazi's in the 30's and exposed by WWI hero, Gen Smedley Butler at the Congressional Comission of McCormak and Dickstein in 1934. They were involved in a coup attemp with Goodyear, JP Morgan, DuPOnt...to overthrow the socialist FDR. Also, the president of IBM had strong ties, not to mention many dinner invitations, to Hitler and designed their database used for tracking the inmates of the concentration camps as well as documenting the endless expiriments. IBM and BUSH CO have been friends for a very long time. Also,
Hitler spied = Bush Spies
Hitler's Fatherland Act = Bush's Patriot Act
Hitler controlled Media = Bush (FOX, GE, Disney) controll media
Hitler had concentration camps = FEMA has empty camps,ready and waiting, in NM, NV, WY, UT...
Hitler invaded Poland to start WWII = Bush invaded Iraq, wants to invade Iran, to start WW3.
I'd keep going but I'm bored schooling you idoits. do some independant research!!!
evolouie --
That might be because this forum is not a debate site. Jes 'cause you demand an answer don't guarantee you'll get one. That's life, get used to it.
mikez --
I have. It shows all your points to be tenuous fabrications.
Wow.. A bunch of personal attacks and ad hominems. Followed up by a bunch of "reality-based" people oversimplifying things and unable to differentiate while calling people stupid and simpleminded..
*sigh*
If you ever wonder why someone might want to write a book like "Liberal Fascists" check out this article:
http://www.baltimorechronicle.com/2007/122407Lindorff.shtml
"The important thing is that we, on the higher ground both actually and figuratively, need to remember that, when they begin their historic migration from their doomed regions, we not give them the keys to the city. They certainly should be offered assistance in their time of need, but we need to keep a firm grip on our political systems, making sure that these guilty throngs who allowed the world to go to hell are gerrymandered into political impotence in their new home."
Ohh.. Lets force them to be second class citizens and not even allow them a political voice.
Sound familiar?
In fascism you don't argue with an opponent you attack him, you attempt to destroy him. Which is exactly what the fascistic left, protesting that it's not fascistic, is doing on this thread.
Well, this has been an interesting comment thread, if somewhat predictably boring.
I admit I haven't read Mr. Goldberg's book, mainly because I don't care much for his writing. I have yet to read anything of interest he's written on NRO, which is why I stopped reading him long ago.
And I admit I haven't listened to the podcast. Perhaps I should, but I don't feel like it.
Having read a few items about this book, I do have a few questions though.
Fascism = national socialism. Um, wouldn't that be Nazism?
Communism = Marxist socialism. Yes, and your point is?
If fascism and communism are both variants of socialism, the distinction between the two does no good without first defining what socialism is.
Actually, the distinction between fascism and communism is really simple. Fascism is state control of industry. Communism is state ownership of industry. Hitler did not advocate the former; Mousolini did. Marx certainly advocated the latter, as did Lenin after him.
The problem with today's society is the total lack of congruence on the meanings of words. We're all living in Wonderland, where "a word means what I say it means, nothing more, nothing less. The question is who is the master, that is all."
Thus, contemporary leftists prefer to be called progressives. But the policies they advocate are not progressive, merely a means to socialism, which properly defined is empowering the government to redistribute wealth from producers to non-producers. (Note. Non-producers does not mean consumers, since consumers must first produce wealth in order to consume anything. Non-producers means those who do not produce wealth in the first place, but merely get by off hand outs.) This is not the same as fascism or communism.
Contemporary rightists prefer to be called conservatives. But the policies they advocate are not conservative, merely a means to corporatism, which properly defined is empowering the government to redistribute wealth from taxpers to failed corporations. (If a corporate entity posts a profit, it gets to keep it. If it posts a loss, the taxpayers get shafted.)
Oh, but wait a minute, that's the same as redistributing wealth from producers to non-producers, or socialism, isn't it? Never mind.
Personally, I'm a traditionalist. There are certain truths I will not deny, certain values I will not compromise and certain principles I will not concede. Chief among these are the self-evident truths (life, liberty, happiness) named in the Declaration of Independence, the self-evident values (equality, freedom, individualism) outlined in the Bill of Rights and the self-evident principles of governance (limited government, separation of powers, checks and balances) outlined in the Constitution of the United States.
Not that I would expect to get any of that from contemporary progressives or conservatives, socialists or coporatists. So mainly I just look out for myself and pretty much ignore everyone else.
Soo, we have so-called liberal facists on the left, and religious conservative neocon fascists on the right...
I think I'll go with the group that is better educated and less willing to give up civil liberties.
I had heard that Kos was losing traffic. I thought it was that its participants could no longer see their screens through all the spittle. Had no idea they'd taken to spending their time here.
Mary, you are no expert on reality. It's funny that you think you can judge Goldberg's education when your grasp of reality sucks. You reject reality in favor of superstitious nonsense.
Oh sorry John, I didn't know this was where religious conservative authoritarian neocon war/fear-mongering gun-nut fascists unite. Heil Bush, Heil Isreal.
"He [Rudy Giuliani] has the knowledge and judgment to attack one of the most difficult problems in current history, and that is the rise of the Muslims....‘til we defeat them or chase them back to their caves, or in other words, get rid of them."
-- John Deady, Co-Chair for New Hampshire’s Veterans for Rudy
International Socialists (iNAZI's), Neo-Marxists, illiberals and assorted sufferers of "Bush Derangement Syndrome":
The term "Liberal Fascism" was apparently coined by H. G. Wells- not your average right-wing nut.
Look all of you guys areway off the mark. Do a little history checking and you'll find that:
Prescott Bush and his father in law, George Herbert Walker, were in business with Nazi's in the 30's and exposed by WWI hero, Gen Smedley Butler at the Congressional Comission of McCormak and Dickstein in 1934. They were involved in a coup attemp with Goodyear, JP Morgan, DuPOnt...to overthrow the socialist FDR. Also, the president of IBM had strong ties, not to mention many dinner invitations, to Hitler and designed their database used for tracking the inmates of the concentration camps as well as documenting the endless expiriments. IBM and BUSH CO have been friends for a very long time.
+Reality: Congressman Dickstein was a paid SOVIET SPY.
Also,
Hitler spied = Bush Spies
+The NSA has engaged in domestic spying since 1947- do your research.
Hitler's Fatherland Act = Bush's Patriot Act
+The "Patriot Act" incorporates the Carter-ERA FISA legislation- do your research.
Hitler controlled Media = Bush (FOX, GE, Disney) controll media
+The MSM is the active "mouthpiece" of the LEFT- do your research.
Hitler had concentration camps = FEMA has empty camps,ready and waiting, in NM, NV, WY, UT...
+ Too "reality-challenged" a comment to even respond.
Hitler invaded Poland to start WWII = Bush invaded Iraq, wants to invade Iran, to start WW3.
+How can the most ostensibly incompetent & verbally incontinent President( at least according to the leftist MSM) in the history of the U.S. accomplish the most far reaching conspiracy in the history of the U.S., including manipulating prominent members of the Democrat party (that so viscerally hates him) into voting in support of the Iraqi invasion? Which is it? The more you “international socialists” spin your unsubstantiated conspiracy theories the more you sound like your national socialist forebears when they began their efforts to malign Jewry, i.e., sub-human but able to conceive & maintain a global cabal.
I'd keep going but I'm bored schooling you idoits. do some independant research!!!
+There is nothing more idiotic than an overt sufferer of "Bush Derangement Syndrome".
Evolouie:
For the sake of argument:
EARLY WARNING SIGNS OF FASCISM:
-Powerful and continuing nationalism
As opposed to “international socialism” proposed by the “i-Nazi’s” of the left? Must be that evil Patriarchy again…
-Disdain for human rights
There’s that “torture” innuendo again. Physical/mental discomfort does not equal torture. Human Rights? How about 13th Amendment vs. involuntary servitude: Men being held in prison indefinitely after not paying court-ordered child support. How about the 14th Amendment: a) Civil Rights vs. institutional discrimination: anti- white male affirmative action/quotas b) Right of Due process vs. Sexist “Violence Against Women Act” (VAWA): Men automatically assumed to be guilty when accused of “domestic violence” (e.g.,Duke rape myth.)
-Identification of enemies as a unifying cause
“Multi-culturalism” is the method by which the LEFT identifies “Western Culture” in general & “white men” in particular as being “enemies as a unifying cause” for every creature playing “group-identity” politics?
-Supremacy of the military
The embodiment of the evil Patriarchy: the US spends 5 times more money on the “Entitlement Industrial Complex” ($1.4T) than it spends on the military. How long have you been intimidated by assertive, intelligent males in uniform?
-Rampant sexism
You must be referring the in the rampant “institutionalized Misandry” (men=evil oppressor/ women= good victim) that pervades modern US society.
-Controlled mass media
Yes, the MSM is the active “mouthpiece” of the LEFT.
-Obsession with national security
As opposed to obsession with domestic policy, e.g., the Pro-Female “Welfare-Industrial Complex.”
-Religion and government intertwined
Really? You must be referring to the Leftwing theocrats responsible for most of our domestic social ills in perpetuity, e.g. “poverty p*mp” clergy (e.g., Jesse Jackson) utilizing their pulpits to extol their Hyphenated-American flocks to vote Democrat & support the welfare-state in perpetuity, Catholic clergy ignoring US immigration laws by harboring and providing sanctuary to illegal immigrants, and “Christians” like Ms. Clinton who advocate “Pro-choice” when in fact the debate about pro-choice vs. pro-life is bogus; it’s really pro-irresponsible woman vs. pro-fetus. These are the left-wing Christians who overtly support an expansion the disastrous feminist-oriented, “Welfare Industrial Complex” as a valid exercise of their misguided FAITH.
-Corporate power protected
Both parties are equally guilty.
-Labor power suppressed
Yes, Left wing unions have contributed to the outstanding success of several US institutions, e.g., the Auto Industry (UAW) and Public Education (NEA).
-Disdain for intellectuals and the arts
As opposed to leftwing anti-intellectualism: the left believes in the validity of “science by consensus of opinion” as replacement for the scientific method. The “scientific method” is apparently invalid because of its hierarchical, patriarchal nature & its reliance on “fact.” The left fervently believes in anthropogenic global warming caused by man -generated “greenhouse gases” while ignoring fluctuations in “solar luminosity” associated w/ “black spot” activity. Currently, the Martian ice caps are also receding. Apparently those evil Republicans have secretly found an inexpensive way of transporting their SUVs to Mars. The left believes global warming contributed to the creation of Hurricane Katrina, yet the 2007 Hurricane season was the tamest in the last 40 plus years. The left believes that homosexuality has a genetic basis w/o scientific evidence (apparently Darwin was wrong,) despite the fact that the phenomenon could be explained via the concept of “Congenital Sexual Dyslexia.” The left believes that “gender is a social construct” in direct contradiction of scientific evidence.
-Obsession with crime and punishment
You must live in a gated community. Try to forego Marx, Chomsky & Freidan for a short while and read Hobbes & Locke sometime.
-Rampant cronyism and corruption
Not endemic solely to the Republican Party.
-Fraudulent elections
Get over the 2000 elections. Your Bush Derangement Syndrome is getting the better of you.
Caved1ver
+Reality: Congressman Dickstein was a paid SOVIET SPY.
This has what to do with anything.
It does not change the facts.
Also,
Hitler spied = Bush Spies
+The NSA has engaged in domestic spying since 1947- do your research.
So that makes it ok then?
+The "Patriot Act" incorporates the Carter-ERA FISA legislation- do your research.
It alkso incorporates the word THE. and that still does not change the facts that bush broke the law.
+The MSM is the active "mouthpiece" of the LEFT- do your research.
Ok now you are showing your ignorance. Fox and all of Murdock is a fascist mouthpeice and they openly admit it.
Hitler had concentration camps = FEMA has empty camps,ready and waiting, in NM, NV, WY, UT...
+ Too "reality-challenged" a comment to even respond.
If you don't believe this your naieve and not paying attention.
Ok I could go on and on but you are like heather in that you make claims not supported by the truth.
You Caved1ver are oviously an angry white christian conservative male who is scared to death of women and those colored folks.
You really need to change the news channel to something other than the admited fox ENTERTAINMENT news.
Or was that the fox porn channel.
Anyway get over it, your the minority in this country and you will lose the house the senate and the Whitehouse in 2008.
And America and the world will be better off for it.
Bush invaded iraq Why.
Can you answer that one question honestly because if you can you better tell bush because he can't answer it honestly.
Interesting discussion. Federal documents in the National Archive revealed the Nazi- Prescott Bush relationship. That family tradition of war profiteering exists to the present day. All the info is available, sources and details too numerous to list. See here for a synopsis. It's an important part of American history.
Surprisingly full of trolls who seemed to want to just name call. Trying to come up with the most disgusting title for the author doesn't convince anyone of anything.
The big thing about Fascism (and Naziism and Communism) that was ignored or missed is that all are socialist theories of government. And it is this socialism that drives their totalitarian bent.
The big difference between Naziism / Fascism on the one hand, Russian Communism on another, and Chinese Communism on a third (at least until lately) is the question of who is more equal under their form of socialism. While in all forms of socialism, all are supposedly equal, there is always one group that is more equal than the rest. In the case of Russian Communism, the original intent was probably the farmers, but since they didn't buy into the Revolution, it was ultimately based on Labor. The Chinese though put the farmers on top. In Naziism and Fascism, it was the small business man who was first among equals (except maybe the big businessman).
To this day, probably the seminal book on this was written contemporaneously in the middle of WWII by Friedrich Hayek in his The Road to Serfdom.
Let me suggest that until someone is willing to read, and then debate, Hayek, that they are mostly engaging in historical revisionism in trying to tie the present Administration or the Republican Party to either Fascism or Naziism. (And, I have no doubt that Jonah Goldberg has - have you?)
1.)Powerful and Continuing Nationalism: Fascist regimes tend to make constant use of patriotic mottos, slogans, symbols, songs, and other paraphernalia.
Sounds like most Communist regimes too.
2.)Disdain for the Recognition of Human Rights: Because of fear of enemies and the need for security, the people in fascist regimes are persuaded that human rights can be ignored in certain cases because of "need."
Ditto.
3.)Identification of Enemies/Scapegoats as a Unifying Cause: The people are rallied into a unifying patriotic frenzy over the need to eliminate a perceived common threat or foe: racial, ethnic or religious minorities; liberals; communists; socialists, terrorists, etc.
4.) Supremacy of the Military: Even when there are widespread domestic problems, the military is given a disproportionate amount of government funding, and the domestic agenda is neglected.
5.)Rampant Sexism: The governments of fascist nations tend to be almost exclusively male-dominated. Opposition to abortion is high, as is homophobia and anti-gay legislation and national policy.
Ditto.
6.)Controlled Mass Media: Sometimes the media is directly controlled by the government, but in other cases, the media is indirectly controlled by government regulation, or sympathetic media spokespeople and executives.
Ditto
7.)Obsession with National Security: Fear is used as a motivational tool by the government over the masses.
8.)Religion and Government are Intertwined: Governments in fascist nations tend to use the most common religion in the nation as a tool to manipulate public opinion.
Historically necessary, due to the large RC influence in Italy and most other Fascist countries. This is one of the differences with German Naziism, which tended to use an ethnic nationalism, possibly due to its more mixed religious demographics.
9.)Corporate Power is Protected: The industrial and business aristocracy of a fascist nation often are the ones who put the government leaders into power, creating a mutually beneficial business/government relationship and power elite.
As noted in my previous post, some are more equal in any version of socialism, the question is just what group it is.
10.)Labor Power is Suppressed: Because the organizing power of labor is the only real threat to a fascist government, labor unions are either eliminated entirely, or are severely suppressed.
Somewhat misleading. What Fascism was competing with at the time was Russian version Communism, based on labor being more equal than anyone else. So, this can better be viewed as a competition of different socialist theologies.
Another way of looking at this is that Fascism was invented in response to over reaching by organized labor and their attempt to impose their (Russian Communist) version of socialism on the rest of the country.
I would suggest that a free economy, and not one that puts one factor of production above others, as suggested by this poster, is the best defense against Fascism and other forms of socialism.
Finally, with the sharp drop in power in the western world of organized labor, and in particular in this country, since the time that Fascism was first implemented, one would expect from the poster's assertions that this philosophy would now reign supeme. But, only those with extreme BDS would assert today that to be true, at least here in the U.S. Indeed, most of the "facts" asserted are less true today here than in the past, with greater labor power.
11.)Disdain for Intellectuals and the Arts: Fascist nations tend to promote and tolerate open hostility to higher education, and academia. It is not uncommon for professors and other academics to be censored or even arrested.
Sounds again more Communistic than anything. But it is a natural byproduct of any socialist regime or theology.
12.)Obsession with Crime and Punishment: Under fascist regimes, the police are given almost limitless power to enforce laws. The people are often willing to overlook police abuses and even forego civil liberties in the name of patriotism.
Ditto
13.)Rampant Cronyism and Corruption: Fascist regimes almost always are governed by groups of friends and associates who appoint each other to government positions and use governmental power and authority to protect their friends from accountability.
Ditto, though I will suggest that this also is remarkably similar to what happens in parts of the Democratic Party over the last century or so. I should add that when the historians look at our modern presidents in the hindsight of history, it is likely that no Administration will come close to Bill Clinton's in this area.
14.)Fraudulent Elections: Sometimes elections in fascist nations are a complete sham. Other times elections are manipulated by smear campaigns against or even assassination of opposition candidates, use of legislation to control voting numbers or political district boundaries, and manipulation of the media. Fascist nations also typically use their judiciaries to manipulate or control elections.
Ditto about Communism and the Democratic Party, esp. in their big city machines.
Actually, fraudulent elections seem to be one of the hallmarks of totalitarian regimes, and as was pointed out by Hayek, totalitarianism is a natural byproduct of socialism, of whatever stripe, Fascism, Naziim, Communism, etc.
I should also add that much of this is also the basis of much of the power that organized labor has had in this country and others. Even today, a large percentage of illegally registered voters and/or double voting in this country can be tied directly to efforts by organized labor.
Also,
Hitler spied = Bush Spies
+The NSA has engaged in domestic spying since 1947- do your research.
So that makes it ok then?
There is no indication that there is any more domestic spying under this Administration and a lot of evidence that it is less than that of many other Administrations, Democratic as well as Nixon.
+The "Patriot Act" incorporates the Carter-ERA FISA legislation- do your research.
It alkso incorporates the word THE. and that still does not change the facts that bush broke the law.
BDS. This is a tiresome mantra from the BDS impaired.
+The MSM is the active "mouthpiece" of the LEFT- do your research.
Ok now you are showing your ignorance. Fox and all of Murdock is a fascist mouthpeice and they openly admit it.
The middle and to some extent the right have Murdock and his media empire. And they have it for one big reason - the MSM was, and mostly continues, to ignore the center and the right. As he is reported to have pointed out, it was great marketing, aiming at the 60% market segment that the rest of the media was ignoring.
Oh, and the only way that you can call Murdock a fascist is by redefining the term, as you have been attempting to do here.
Hitler had concentration camps = FEMA has empty camps,ready and waiting, in NM, NV, WY, UT...
This is a clear indication of serious BDS with this poster, if we haven't seen such before.
Bush invaded iraq Why.
Can you answer that one question honestly because if you can you better tell bush because he can't answer it honestly
I am sure in your terminal BDS, you have a lot of answers for this.
Bruce,
You reacted just as I knew you would, more unsubstantiated claims and NO ANSWEWRS.
People like you who refuse to acknowledge the facts are the ones who are to blame for the bush failed economy, bush failed foreign policy, bush failed domestic policy.
Hell everything the man touches fails. And you people refuse to acknowledge the facts.
I'm done here.
Thanks Bruce for describing the neo-con authoritarian fascist Bush Administration to a T.
1.)Powerful and Continuing Nationalism: Fascist regimes tend to make constant use of patriotic mottos, slogans, symbols, songs, and other paraphernalia.
"you're for us or against us" ... "cut n' run Democrats" ... "Democrats are invested in failure"
2.)Disdain for the Recognition of Human Rights: Because of fear of enemies and the need for security, the people in fascist regimes are persuaded that human rights can be ignored in certain cases because of "need."
Abu ghraib, Guantanamo, signing statements to subvert torture legislation and a variety of laws, illegal domestic spying, The board of governors of the American Bar Association voted unanimously to investigate Bush on signing statements....
3.)Identification of Enemies/Scapegoats as a Unifying Cause: The people are rallied into a unifying patriotic frenzy over the need to eliminate a perceived common threat or foe: racial, ethnic or religious minorities; liberals; communists; socialists, terrorists, etc.
Exactly - the Bushies fall in line like good authoritarians (see John Dean's book on the subject, "Conservatives without Conscience")
4.) Supremacy of the Military: Even when there are widespread domestic problems, the military is given a disproportionate amount of government funding, and the domestic agenda is neglected.
N'Orleans never got rebuilt, Iraq costs $2 BILLION+ a week.
5.)Rampant Sexism: The governments of fascist nations tend to be almost exclusively male-dominated. Opposition to abortion is high, as is homophobia and anti-gay legislation and national policy.
Very big with the religious conservatives...who believe that women should find their Biblical place in the home as mothers and homemakers, subservient to men. (See the conservative "Quiverfull Movement")
6.)Controlled Mass Media: Sometimes the media is directly controlled by the government, but in other cases, the media is indirectly controlled by government regulation, or sympathetic media spokespeople and executives.
This has not been totally accomplished by the Bush Administration but they've made strides - Fox News, talk radio 'planted journalists' like Gannon, manipulated and leaked intelligence. The free press in America is one of the few checks remaining.
7.)Obsession with National Security: Fear is used as a motivational tool by the government over the masses.
Be afraid, the fear card was what got Bush reelected. Giuliani is taking the same tact.
8.)Religion and Government are Intertwined: Governments in fascist nations tend to use the most common religion in the nation as a tool to manipulate public opinion.
Totally true, born again president, faith based programs, pundits characterizing liberals as 'Godless', Republicans trying to 'take back America for Christ'... the endorsement of religious psuedo-science like "Intelligent Design"
9.)Corporate Power is Protected: The industrial and business aristocracy of a fascist nation often are the ones who put the government leaders into power, creating a mutually beneficial business/government relationship and power elite.
Of course, the rich get richer, poverty grows, the middle class is starving. The conservatives kept the min wage as low as possible as long as they could, while the war profiteers raked it in... with Haliburton moving off shore to inhibit fraud investigations and accountability
11.)Disdain for Intellectuals and the Arts: Fascist nations tend to promote and tolerate open hostility to higher education, and academia. It is not uncommon for professors and other academics to be censored or even arrested.
This goes to the well known Republican 'war on science', war on public funding for arts, PBS, etc... The distain for college education in general - it being labeled as 'indoctrination.' Scientists repeatedly and consistently being censored by the Bush Administration on a variety of topic
13.)Rampant Cronyism and Corruption: Fascist regimes almost always are governed by groups of friends and associates who appoint each other to government positions and use governmental power and authority to protect their friends from accountability.
Hence the GOP Culture of Corruption. Attorney firings,Plame leak, millions of 'lost' emails, crony war profiteering, Abramoff, Libby, Safavian, Cunningham, Foley, Ney, DeLay. Felon Abramoff had over 450 contacts with the White House, Bush says "I don't know him"
14.)Fraudulent Elections: Sometimes elections in fascist nations are a complete sham. Other times elections are manipulated by smear campaigns against or even assassination of opposition candidates, use of legislation to control voting numbers or political district boundaries, and manipulation of the media. Fascist nations also typically use their judiciaries to manipulate or control elections.
Conservative Supreme Court hands the presidency to GW Bush on a 4-3 decision
The reason this type of conservative religious authoritarianism has been able to flourish is that it preys upon the less informed, the less educated, and the most religious. The Republican constituency is formed by the upper 0.1% that successfully influence those most susceptible with general concepts like "God-less Liberals" ... "Moral Values" ... fear of "Mushroom clouds" and "we gotta fight ém over there or they'll follow us here". Simple and persuasive concepts designed to 'bottom feed' on the average and below average Americans. i.e. ...
It is a factual demographic statistic that Bush voters are fatter, whiter and less educated than Democratic voters.
Although I think both Slick Willy and Bushamundo are rather mediocre presidents (the former is a Turd and the latter is a Douche), Bruce Hayden's observation that the various forms of Socialism (communism, nazism, tranzies, etc) are based on designating a favored group as "more equal than" others is spot on.
Hmmm, I noticed that Mary hasn't responded to my post.
I shop for groceries at Wal Mart because it save me about $50.00 per week over groceries only stores. That leaves me more money to contribute to Republican candidates.
br549
Do you actually believe you save money by shopping at MAO-MART ?
The only thing happens when you shop at MAO-MART is that you support the the slave labor in third world countries, you support the greedy walton family and it's corporations that pays litterally no taxes and thus you pay higher taxes because they will not pay a living wage to american workers who then have to rely on government aid and yet, I bet you bitch about paying taxes.
Wake up and support american workers, not greedy bastards like the walton family.
C'mon where is all that patriotism you conservatives are always talking about.
I love all the "reviews" on a book that hasn't been released yet. What a pack of liars and liberal fascists these trolling clowns are.
Quoting SadlyNo as a source isn't indicative of anything other than the quoters leftwing bias.
Hoo-Ray!
Basically, Hillary just doesn’t have the bawls, Mike does; whether atheist or Catholic, doesn’t matter - you’re still gonna be Judged. Only 2 realms after death… and 1 of 'em ain’t very cool. My rock-solid, avant-garde, .357 mag trilogy has THE answer:
http://stores.lulu.com/fido
“A must read if youse wanna live” -Father Sarducci, SNL
evolouie, I thought you were done here. Is anything you people say the truth?
You just can't have a conversation about anything with anyone without making some sort of personal remark.
I haven't said much in this thread because you people aren't worth talking to.
astanhope, at first I thought your Nazi/Liberal list was sarcastic. Some of the things you said about liberals are true, but some are not.
titushard - You obviously do not know Dr. Helen and you are displaying typical bigotry. Why do you want to change so bad?
evolouie - give an example where the MSM supported the President. Oh and who is your President? Do you have an example of election fraud?
cham - if there are too many deer I say cull the herd.
caved1ver - Here is a link with a brief overview of Wells's statement.
The NSA has engaged in domestic spying since 1947- do your research.
It seems like there was a big data mining program that would search the internet and phone calls during the Clinton Administration. Was it Able Danger? Or something else?
The left believes that homosexuality has a genetic basis w/o scientific evidence (apparently Darwin was wrong,) despite the fact that the phenomenon could be explained via the concept of “Congenital Sexual Dyslexia.”
Genetic tests among twins when one is gay, shows a higher percentage than for the general population. I think this shows that it is partly caused by genetics, but also proves it is not completely caused by genetics. Francis S Collins claims a 20% correlation among twins, wheareas in the general population it is about 3%. I have never heard of your dyslexia theory, but I have thought before that homosexuality is partially a genetic defect, perhaps that is the same thing.
Only in Leftwingistan are gays hardwired genetically, but gender is a social construct.
These people are incoherent.
I also look forward to reading this book from what I hear it is well documented.
be SUre to check out my blog at http://www.thejiggaangle.blogspot.com
徵信社, 感情挽回, 挽回感情, 徵信, 徵信社, 徵信, 捉姦, 徵信公司, 通姦, 通姦罪, 抓姦, 抓猴, 捉猴, 捉姦, 監聽, 調查跟蹤, 反跟蹤, 外遇問題, 徵信, 捉姦, 女人徵信, 外遇問題, 女子徵信, 外遇, 徵信公司, 徵信網, 徵信, 徵信社, 外遇蒐證, 抓姦, 抓猴, 捉猴, 調查跟蹤, 反跟蹤, 感情挽回, 挽回感情, 外遇沖開, 徵信, 徵信, 徵信社, 抓姦, 徵信, 徵信社, 外遇, 外遇蒐證, 外遇, 通姦, 通姦罪, 贍養費, 徵信, 徵信社, 徵信社, 抓姦, 徵信社, 徵信社, 徵信, 徵信社, 徵信, 徵信, 徵信公司, 徵信社, 徵信, 徵信公司, 徵信社, 徵信社, 徵信社, 徵信社, 徵信社, 徵信, 徵信公司, 徵信社, 徵信, 徵信, 徵信公司, 徵信, 徵信社
室內設計,室內設計,室內設計,裝潢,室內設計,室內設計室內設計公司
,搬家公司,搬家公司,台北搬家公司,搬家公司,室內設計
這一家租屋網免費刊登不用錢耶
搬家公司,健身,茶葉A片,SEO,SEO,SEO,motel,led手電筒,棧板,二胎,隔熱紙,照明,健身,a383,a383,,二手家具,a383,胸章,車燈,
文山搬家,兼職小姐,南港搬家,大安區搬家,松山搬家,中山區搬家,八里搬家,
五股搬家,
泰山搬家,大同區搬家,中正區搬家,士林搬家,萬華搬家,
台北搬家公司,台北搬家公司,客人,情趣用品,情趣用品,情趣用品,情趣用品,情趣用品,情趣用品,情趣用品,情趣用品,情趣用品,情趣用品,情趣用品,情趣用品,加油棒,台中搬家公司,台北市搬家公司,台北縣搬家公司
情色視訊台灣kiss情色文學彩虹性愛巴士情色交友情色論壇聊天室ut情色網麗的情色小遊戲台灣情色網情色遊戲情色小遊戲情色小站情色影片情色貼片金瓶梅影片交流情色漫畫38ga免費a片情色文章情色圖貼天堂情色網情色網站情色自拍情色圖片
Post a Comment
<< Home