Quick--Call the Cops: A Conservative is on the Loose on Campus
Captain Ed has a post about Troy Scheffler, a 31-year-old graduate student who has been placed on probation at Hamline University because he dared to suggest that concealed carry might be more of an answer to school massacres than Critical Incident Stress Debriefing --a fancy name for counseling after a trauma, but guess what, Critical Incident Stress Debriefing doesn't work and may cause harm, but that's not important to the PC folks at Hamline. Their only concern--A CONSERVATIVE ON CAMPUS! In an article Captain Ed pointed out, the "atrocities" that this grad student was accused of:
I have an idea of how to get potential psychotic school shooters off campus: Just goad them into saying something conservative. Next thing you know, they'll be whisked off the campus in handcuffs and psychological treatment will be a must--at their expense! Problem solved.
Update: In this original post, I had used the name Tony instead of Troy for Mr. Scheffler's first name, it is now corrected to Troy Scheffler.
Update II: Captain Ed interviewed Troy Scheffler and posted on it here.
In the aftermath, officials at Hamline University sought to comfort their 4,000 students. David Stern, the vice president for academic and student affairs, sent a campus-wide email offering extra counseling sessions for those who needed help coping.
Scheffler had a different opinion of how the university should react. Using the email handle "Tough Guy Scheffler," Troy fired off his response: Counseling wouldn't make students feel safer, he argued. They needed protection. And the best way to provide it would be for the university to lift its recently implemented prohibition against concealed weapons.
"Ironically, according to a few VA Tech forums, there are plenty of students complaining that this wouldn't have happened if the school wouldn't have banned their permits a few months ago," Scheffler wrote. "I just don't understand why leftists don't understand that criminals don't care about laws; that is why they're criminals. Maybe this school will reconsider its repression of law-abiding citizens' rights"....
So Hamline officials took swift action. On April 23, Scheffler received a letter informing him he'd been placed on interim suspension. To be considered for readmittance, he'd have to pay for a psychological evaluation and undergo any treatment deemed necessary, then meet with the dean of students, who would ultimately decide whether Scheffler was fit to return to the university.
The consequences were severe. Scheffler wasn't allowed to participate in a final group project in his course on Human Resources Management, which will have a big impact on his final grade. Even if he's reinstated, the suspension will go on his permanent record, which could hurt the aspiring law student.
I have an idea of how to get potential psychotic school shooters off campus: Just goad them into saying something conservative. Next thing you know, they'll be whisked off the campus in handcuffs and psychological treatment will be a must--at their expense! Problem solved.
Update: In this original post, I had used the name Tony instead of Troy for Mr. Scheffler's first name, it is now corrected to Troy Scheffler.
Update II: Captain Ed interviewed Troy Scheffler and posted on it here.
Labels: political correctness
posted by Helen at 9:11 AM
97 Comments:
Hopefully, this is a lawsuit waiting to happen. Somewhere in America, a conservative First Ammendment laywer just started looking at yacht catalogues, already spending his cut from the juicy settlement or award.
Trey
This has been my biggest gripe against the university system. They act as a self-appointed morals court.
They have started having 'community service' as requirements in such assininly unrelated courses as "Scientific Investigations". Actual requirement at Drury.
I have had a guidance counselor, sitting in on an online course, deride me for quoting a Japanese reporter about her take on women's issues in Japan. And when I pressed the issue, issued an apology that she was sorry I misunderstood her post. From that post: "I find you views abhorrent!" Kinda hard to misconstrue that one.
These people are fascist. They get away with things no business could and typically don't even have to imburse. Meaning, they're ripping you off with glee.
One fortunate thing. Universities (despite they're having IT departments or not) typically don't understand the information medias and act as if we still have slow print.
This is, and will continue to hang them in the public wind to twist until they wither.
And Andrew Sullivan wonders why we don't want to be "outed". I'm continually amazed at the lack of tolerance and willingness to have an open, civil dialog among the far left.
Well. After all.... Conservatives are the origin of all that is evil in this world!
From Captain Ed:
"After stewing over the issue for two days, Scheffler sent a second email to University President Linda Hanson, reiterating his condemnation of the concealed carry ban and launching into a flood of complaints about campus diversity initiatives, which he considered reverse discrimination."
Before reaching an opinion on this, I would very much like to read that second E-Mail.
Tom - Your friendly neighborhood gun tote'n yayhoo.
Ditto tomcal.
Remember tmink and olganicello, if it turns out the kid spewed immaturely on topics other than conceal carry, then he is harming the cause more than promoting it.
Don't want that as my poster boy.
Would wish to see the "flood of complaints about campus diversity initiatives, which he considered reverse discrimination" that he included in with the conceal carry topic.
tomcal,
I read that also and think that part of the university's concern was that Scheffler dared to criticize the diversity intitiatives as well as mentioned that "white privilege" was not as priviliged as is assumed. He has the right to feel this way and to speak up no matter and the diversity of ideas should hold that his point of view is a valid one. It does not change my opinion at all. Does challenging diversity initiatives give a university the right to bounce people out? I don't think so.
While this distills several books' (some of which are on store shelves already) worth of WTF?-in-Academia into a single incident, the really disturbing thing to me is that what I thought were overreactions of people claiming this sort of thing would happen turn out already to be not even front-page news.
Ok, that sentence was entirely too convoluted; but the coffee hasn't kicked in and you probably understood it anyway.
Just to be opened-minded, it would be interesting to see the wording of the emails since other topics were discussed and the student appears to be confrontational.
I did have to chuckle at Dr. H's comment on critical incident stress debriefings. As someone who has participated in debriefings and been asked to lead them (despite the fact that I am not qualified to do so), it is good to hear my negative feelings about the CISDs supported by a professional.
--Scott
Interesting. I hope some enterprising lawyer sues that group of jack booted fascists posting as professors encouraging political discourse and diversity.
You can be kicked out of school based on the political opinions you hold! How tolerant.
If this guy *actually* said threatening (specifically threatening to specific people, as opposed to the catch all "creating a hostile environment" nonsense) in his email, rather than simply being offensive, the University should be required to prove this.
Slamdunk,
Cho appeared to be confrontational also--so much so that only 7 students out of 70 would come to class-- but this did not seem to bother the administration at Virginia Tech enough to do anything lik say, suspend him until psychological testing could be done. Negative views of diversity ARE NOT a reason to get a psychological evaluation, even racist views do not warrant psychological evaluations. This smacks of Stalinist. If his emails contain threats such as "If you do not discontinue these initiatives, I will kill you" an evaluation is warranted but just a negative or even racist view? No.
In terms of CISD-controlled studies show it to be ineffective. In one meta-analysis--there was no effect or even a slight negative effect (Litz, Gray, Bryant, and Adler 2002) on PTSD symptoms.
Anon wrote: "if it turns out the kid spewed immaturely on topics other than conceal carry, then he is harming the cause more than promoting it.
Don't want that as my poster boy."
Well, I will hold the presses on the posters. 8)
Do you have reason to believe the emails were inappropriate? If so, please share. If not, why post?
We posted on the information we had. If you ahve more information, sharing that is a real service! If you are posting on the information you do not have, what is the point?
Trey
Is his name Troy or Tony?
To be considered for readmittance, he'd have to pay for a psychological evaluation and undergo any treatment deemed necessary, then meet with the dean of students, who would ultimately decide whether Scheffler was fit to return to the university.
It does seem popular to send conservatives to the gulag these days.
Bravo to the school.
This civilization will only be held hostage by the pathologies and regressive point of view of old, corrupt, greedy 1950's style males and their enabling wives for another 15-20 years.
Be patient my fellow idealists-you will live to see all of their hate-spewing, fear-mongering and nightmarish visions for America be a thing of the past.
Be forewarned-these overgrown, violent infants are going to spend those last 15-20 years of political power kicking and screaming all the way.
The progress and beauty you will see once they are removed from power will be even sweeter due to the ugliness we all have had to deal with since the repeal of the Fairness Doctrine and the rise of the panicked right-wing whack job.
Be patient, and don't let Dr. Helen depress you. She truly embodies exactly what is ailing this civilization. She's the problem, not the solution.
Dr. H:
I agree with you that the negative view of campus policies and practices is not worthy of an evaluation, and believe the student's release of his emails would (if the story is as he says it is) certainly strengthen his defense.
Even though the article and the blog spot are persuasive, I am hesitant to condemn the actions of university officials without understanding both sides of the disagreement; especially, with a student who chose to twice direct written correspondence to his university president in an evidently confrontational manner. Also, I do not think that a person can adequately compare the reactions of administrators at Hamline University to the actions of VA Tech brass in the evaluations of a potential student threats. The VA Tech incident tipped the balance at institutions of higher education to at least examining “campus safety” rather than simply stressing “let us just all get along.” Again, the student’s emails would shed light on if the university acted inappropriately and is punishing him without cause for politically incorrect viewpoints.
Thanks for the reference on the CISD research—I’ll look it up. --Scott
Unfortunately, in this day and age, it is almost impossible to tell if anonymous 12:29 is being satirical or is in earnest.
If it's in earnest, I have to wonder what was the point in winning the Cold War when we seem to have more Stalinist's in this country than in the former Soviet Union.
Simply outrageous what our college campuses have come to, and great idea for getting psychos off campus.
Yosemite, I caught the same Stalinist flavor the the anon rhetoric! Good job pointing it out. And I love the irony of using that kind of over the top rhetoric to call someone else a "whack job."
Priceless.
Trey
Sounds like a job for F.I.R.E.
I have to ask - are these critical incident thingy sessions voluntary or required? For the students, I mean? I don't have a problem with offering individual or group counseling to kids who feel the need to talk about their fears - that's pretty basic. Is that not what happens?
P.S. I think Anonymous might be North Korean. They still write like that.
How very Stalinist of them. You dare challenge our official narrative? No sane person would do that! Off to reprogramming you go!
I can see why someone might find this guy's communication unsettling.
What bothers me *most* is that there was no... process to his expulsion. He wasn't met with or given any opportunity to defend himself or even know what was going on. He got a notice (as I understand it) expelled from campus and a list of things he had to do to even request a metting to plead his case and ask to be readmitted.
So he gets a letter, no one returns his calls or will speak to him, and an *armed* guard is posted outside his classes.
I do hope they get sued. Even if they were *right* to expel him the way it was done could not possibly have determined that.
Lesson learned... never write dissenting letters to the university administration. Act out in some *other* way.
Can we see the emails? Does anyone have them?
Why is the burden of proof (and pocketbook) on him to show that he's sane? I always thought that the burden was on the accuser. If the school thinks he's got mental problems, they should tell him that they want him to go to a psychologist on the school's dime. If he refuses, then they could reasonably suspend him.
How can you not agree with slamdunk? Surely we don't want 'confrontational' events in a university. Why do you think they exist? Certainly not to explore alternative viewpoints (particularly when the administration is in full possession of the TRUTH, anyway). There apparently is NEVER any confrontational behavior by students anywhere close to slamdunk's neighborhood. Probably no anti-Israeli demonstrations (which, when they occur are the perfect model of non-confrontational interaction, right?) or students shouting down conservative or libertarian speakers or administrations shutting down or defunding non-lefty organizations.
Funny how so many of my '60s colleagues (in the roughest sense only) who were so unhappy about the 'power structure' have no problem in using it to silence those who disagree with them. Guess it just depends on whose ox is getting gored. Also, as always, Orwell was correct. Some pigs are more equal than others (and the PC police would certainly appear to be today's Pigs, not the cops).
Personally, I'm just a little surprised there isn't quite a bit more 'confrontational' activity in the groves of Academe, given the SOBs in charge and how they treat those who don't fit their ideal.
Political correctness is nothing more than
non-governmental McCarthyism -
As evil and damaging as the original McCarthyism ever was
Quasimodo
To many of the commenters, please note the "kid" is a 31 year old graduate student. He is also a CCW permit holder, which in MN means he has attended class, has undergone the background check for felonies, etc.
His second mail:
"In fact, three out of three students just in my class that are 'minorities' are planning on returning to Africa and all three are getting a free education on my dollar...Please stop alienating the students who are working hard every day to pay their tuition. Maybe you can instruct your staff on sensitivity towards us 'privileged white folk.'"
In re-reading the article about Scheffler, he seems to come off as the sort of guy who is out looking for a fight. His attitude is at best immature.
As an aspiring lawyer he should be aware that writing confrontational letters to the university administration with rambling ditribes about carrying guns on campus, complaints about free-loading foreign students, and how the administration is alienating him, will not be taken lightly by any reasonable administrator in the wake of VT. He was asking for trouble and he got it.
He also makes an issue of his 4th Ammendment rights during a traffic stop I suspect he intentionally made the officer uncomfortable enough to pat him down.
I have been stopped twice while carrying a weapon and have never been patted down.
This guy has a chip on his shoulder and needs to grow up.
All that being said, the university probably did over-react by not giving him some sort of due process, but I am withholding final judgement until I can see the entire email text.
I think tomcal hits it on the head - The guy is clearly confrontational. Without seeing his e-mails in their entirety it's impossible to say to what extent the university overreacted.
Nothing this student has said remotely approaches what faculty members at Duke have said about the lacrosse team. Do your comments about the Hamline student apply to Duke faculty? Or is the freedom to express controversial opinions only available to the powerful and tenured? I'm sure the comments made day to day by some of the faculty in liberal arts at Hamlin are far worse, but "academic freedom" and job for life tenure make it futile to complain.
Tomcal, sounds like the student should have written three seperate emails, one for each subject. 8) But nothing I have read even hints at the need for a re-education camp. Bad attitudes and rude behavior, even if he did display them, are not remotely equivalent to mental instability.
I think we do need to politely complain when we have cause to. My daughter (white like me) was excluded from a school event because of her race. Only the African American kids participated. The school has really never gotten over my complaining about that. I am not weeping or upset, and deal with the cold shoulders I get by being extra polite and agreeable whenever I go over there. The emails I wrote were polite but to the point, and if it ever happens again I will get my lawyer to write them a letter.
Trey
A concealed carry advocate studying HR? No wonder they think he's nuts.
"Political correctness is nothing more than
non-governmental McCarthyism -
As evil and damaging as the original McCarthyism ever was"
Anon, 2:09 PM
Sometimes it seems that "McCarthyism" is/was nothing more than liberal projection of the political correctness that they always dreamed of enacting.
I don't remember Senator Joe (or his sidekick RFK) ever ordering Hollywood libs to undergo psychological analysis before they could be reinstated for anything.
Also, political correctness is nothing more than
non-governmental AND governmental McCarthyism! Public/private sector has nothing to do with it. If a liberal wants to smoke you out and remove you from the arena of ideas, he/she will do it from whatever capacity they can.
I've had my lawyer write the school a letter. I took my son out of school on the last day before Christmas Vacation (a half day) to travel to Nicaragua with me. I made the mistake of telling the school the truth rather than that he was sick.
When we got back, there was a truancy citation in the mail. I hired the biggest five-name-letterhead law firm in the county to take care of it, which they did to my satisfaction. But I never went and shot my mouth off to the school district or the truancy officer myself.
The U.S. Constitution requires that the President be 35 years of age. I think that the founding fathers realized that common sense comes with a few more grey hairs than Mr. Scheffler has.
God knows, freedom was never intended for those who choose to be 'confrontational'.
Right, guys?
God knows, freedom was never intended for those who choose to be 'confrontational'.
Is it really so hard for you to understand that some people like to have all the facts before deciding their opinion on an issue?
I haven't at any point, and I don't think tomcal has, said this guy wasn't wronged. Nor have we said that the University was right. This guy wrote some letters. Someone got concerned over them. How can you say their reaction wasn't appropriate without seeing the letters?
I suspect that I agree 100% with his views, but that doesn't change the fact that he may have expressed them in a threatening manner. We don't /know/. And until we do, there is no point in breaking out the pitch forks and torches.
Do you have reason to believe the emails were inappropriate? If so, please share. If not, why post?
We posted on the information we had. If you ahve more information, sharing that is a real service! If you are posting on the information you do not have, what is the point?
Read upthread. Responding to this:From Captain Ed:
"After stewing over the issue for two days, Scheffler sent a second email to University President Linda Hanson, reiterating his condemnation of the concealed carry ban and launching into a flood of complaints about campus diversity initiatives, which he considered reverse discrimination."
Before reaching an opinion on this, I would very much like to read that second E-Mail.
Thus, the "ditto tomcal"
hth.
In re-reading the article about Scheffler, he seems to come off as the sort of guy who is out looking for a fight. His attitude is at best immature.
We see that a lot in the characters who post on boards like this one. Often, they come in with personal beefs and look to see their viewpoints reinforced here. They are surprised when others don't automatically view thier version as the only correct take on the facts. Also, they often perceived themselves and their children as "victimized" by society in many settings.
Who says it can't happen here? It is happening here.
Define here, ricpic.
I think we can assume that he threatened no one because, if he had, he would have been arrested.
This case is as it seems. A student did not agree with particular university policies and sent some somewhat pushy emails.
The reaction of the university's administration is extremely over the top and borderline fascist.
Who the hell do they think they are that they can destroy a person's future earnings and career prospects over a difference in opinion, without any discussion whatsoever.
The entire episode is an outrage and the president and everyone involved in this should be fired.
Tomcal, you are a cooler customer than I, and certainly than the student in question. Do you wish you had addressed the school yourself, or are you satisfied with the lawyer letter in your case?
My communication with the school was through email, it is nice to have the copies!
So far, I can see the case for the student being imprudent, but I have not read anything that makes me agree with that assessment. But I can accept the point.
Anon, do you consider what has been posted here that he wrote inappropriate?
Trey
Trey:
In my case, it was better to use the lawyer, there is a little more to the story in that I actually received a call from a truancy officer. She was extremely belligerent and accusatory, raising the level of the conversation almost immediately questions about our ability to raise our child, whether social services should be called in, etc.
So I bit my tongue and called the attorney. The last thing I wanted was to be in a pissing match with a big fat lesbian social service worker, who after having been rescued from her own dysfunctional family 10 years before, had gone to junior college for 2 years, gotten a job with the county, and acquired the authority to take revenge for her own sorry life by making normal familys’ (a social unit which she couldn’t possibly understand), by making normal familys’ lives miserable.
The attorney was able to express my opinion more diplomatically to her superiors.
Loren,
I think I get it. He's a cc holder which means if they can report him as being a psycho he'll lose his right to carry. That's the connection here that I'm making.
As for the "confrontation" how is it NOT appropriate to confront this administration? Bodies are all over the place but those who lived through it are expected to be nicey-nice about it? Sounds like we've got "appropriate" behavior all bass-ackwards if being pleasantly submissive is "appropriate" under the circumstances.
There is no way to decide this until the entire content of Scheffler's email is made public. All we have are two or three sentences, and a few statements about the context.
The University probably will not release the contents based upon advice from legal counsel, and I am sure that Scheffler is enjoying the publicity, and will milk it for all it's worth before he releases the entire document.
What is needed is a mole inside the administration building.
Tomcal wrote: "The last thing I wanted was to be in a pissing match with a big fat lesbian social service worker, who after having been rescued from her own dysfunctional family 10 years before, had gone to junior college for 2 years, gotten a job with the county, and acquired the authority to take revenge for her own sorry life by making normal familys’ (a social unit which she couldn’t possibly understand), by making normal familys’ lives miserable.'
OK, that was really funny! And, I think it elucidated something for me. The person that you described, and people like them (except for the gay part), are often terrified of me because I am a psychologist!
You would not be, many people are not, and nobody should be, but people like that typically are. So I do not get that type of crap from that type of person. As their secular priest, I guess they fear my voodoo. Quite silly, but still true!
Thanks for taking the time to write that, I laughed and learned!
Trey
From the factoid that he'd recently been pulled over and subsequently pat-down searched, it's tempting to conclude that he has a confrontational attitude.
The original article has this quote:
xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
"A couple of days ago, he got pulled over for speeding. WHEN THE COP NOTICED THE CONCEALED CARRY PERMIT, he ordered Scheffler out of the car, patted him down, and searched his car.
"A clear violation of my Fourth Amendment rights," Scheffler says with an exasperated chuckle, referring to the constitutional protection against unreasonable search and seizure.
xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
This reminds me of a drive through Boulder County CO a few years ago. We'd taken our new four-wheeler to the mountain trails. It was 'new' to us, but is a WWII surplus troop transport from Europe. Hubby put a rifle in the gun rack slot on the passenger side; it looked really cool there. Our house-to-mountains trip was via a friend's house. For the return home, the most convenient route was through Boulder County. I guess we should not have been surprised to get pulled over. Hubby knew all the appropriate rules even better than one of the officers. Another officer appeared to know the rules, and went through the steps of verifying there was not a load in the chamber; only a magazine. They also phoned in the serial number, which we found annoying. (The military vehicle and hubby's military haircut and military ID had 'em a bit off balance, since it was a civilian-owned vehicle on a civilian personal trip.) We were discouraged from open carry in the future, and they received the polite shrug, non-committal response. We were then allowed to continue home.
SUMMARY: Know your carry laws. Be polite and respectful, yet able to rattle off the rules.
Does anyone have info on Hamline university or the political climate of the area around it?
Perhaps, as a forensic psychologist, Dr. Helen could provide an evaluation which states that altho he is wondrously sane his continued well-being requires an immediate reinstatement and an apology from the administration.
Solzhenitsyn sighs. U.S. academia is the last bastion and all that.
Anon:
"Remember tmink and olganicello, if it turns out the kid spewed immaturely on topics other than conceal carry, then he is harming the cause more than promoting it."
Immaturity is not grounds for anything other than a wink and shrug.
If I spew immaturity on the topic of online games, that in no way impunes my thoughts on the origins of the universe.
It is also no business of a U where my immaturity lies. Only that I fulfill the requirements for the courses I contracted them to provide.
I just discovered your blog today, but I would really like to e-mail you. I am a psychology major, but I have been encouraged to switch to the Forensic Psychology major and I would really like to talk to you about that. My e-mail address is politicofapatriot at gmail dot com. Thank you!
Politics:
I have no idea how Helen will respond, but good for you for asking.
One of the most important things when starting your career is to have a good mentor.
I had several, and still have a few, but they are dying off at an alarming rate. There is now way I would enjoy the success I enjoy now
without having had their advice and counsel over the years.
Trey:
I'm glad you enjoyed the story. At the time, it wasn't quite so funny.
Here in California, if you get the child social service Nazis on your case, your life can become very difficult very quickly. It's very important to handle the situation tactfully, but also while demonstrating overwhelming power, if you come up on their radar.
In fact, back to the original thread, if my situation had gotten out of hand, the next question would have been "Do you have guns in the house?"
I'm sure you can imagine where that would lead...
Tomcal, I hope I was not in any way insulting. I did lose sight of your feelings in that situation. I appologize.
Your restraint and agency were and are admirable and instructive. But I appologize for it looking like I was making light of your situation. I just lost sight of it in thinking about other implications.
I am so glad things turned out well for you and your family, and I appreciate the strenght and finess you showed. I hope to grow in that combination as well.
Trey
Dr. Helen, thanks again for not using the murders of scores of people to advance some political agenda.
You are a true lady, through and through. Such class.
Theo,
Given the tenor of your website, I won't be taking my cues on how to write posts from you.
No need to worry about my feelings. I think it is funny too; in fact I hope to make it a little funnier each time I tell it - as the years go by.
My only point about it not being funny at the time is that one has to be able to recognise when he is in real danger, and take the APPROPRIATE steps. After the threat has passed there is plenty of time to laugh, cry, complain, Monday morning quarterback, or whatever.
Theo,
Given the tenor of your website, I won't be taking my cues on how to write posts from you.
Tsk, tsk, Doc - so passive-aggressive there. You know that's unhealthy.
Besides, I would hope that a psychologist would realize that a gun is just an extension of your penis.
Correction Theo: An extension of your arms... Penises are for reproducing, arms are for fighting; that's why guns are called arms.
Was it Freud who said that fear of guns is a sign of sexual immaturity?
Trey
Not Freud, but Don B. Kates. Great quote none the less.
Trey
"Who the hell do they think they are that they can destroy a person's future earnings and career prospects over a difference in opinion, without any discussion whatsoever."
Probably the same type of people who denied a recent college grad her teaching credentials for posting a picutre of herself as a drunk pirate on MySpace.
Without having enough information about this guy to form a proper opinion, I think I can relate nonetheless. I'm a student at San Francisco State University. The bias on my campus is so overwhelmingly Left that any opinion not extreme, or "Progressive," is considered to be Far Right and worthy of an argument. I have learned to avoid academic discussions, as the Academics do not enjoy questioning their own assumptions. In my time at the University, I have grown to be somewhat confrontational. I do not enjoy being adversarial in conversations with Lefties, yet those are the conversations to be had on a campus like this. Perhaps this guy is just in the same boat I am, and has a chip on his shoulder based on the constant harrassment.
Dr. Helen:
Please come visit me at Provocateur:
http://provocateurjim.blogspot.com/
Immaturity is not grounds for anything other than a wink and shrug.
Here, the kid got suspended for his immaturity. Those wink shrug days appear to be over.
Those wink shrug days appear to be over.
Only if they prevail. Ain't over yet.
Hamline is a private university. They are perfectly entitled to establish whatever conditions for continuing enrollment they wish -- even if the criteria are ones I find appalling.
However, I note that, according to Wikipedia (caveat utilis Wiki) Hamline is affiliated with the United Methodist Church. You might wish to reflect on that the next time you see one of those smarmy TV commercial about how the Methodists welcome everyone.
To any Methodists participating in this thread: I am fully prepared to believe that Hamline's action does not reflect your values. If so, you might want to let the board of trustees of Hamline know.
Anon 10:35: I'm sure that Hamline has a student handbook, and that at enrollment the student signs a statement agreeing to abide by the terms of the handbook. I'm also sure that the handbook lays out the procedures and processes for student discipline. And although I haven't seen said handbook, my guess is that placing a student on indefinite suspension, without charges or a hearing, is nowhere close to conforming to said procedures. And I would think that any competent lawyer could make a good case that the handbook constitutes a contractually binding document on both parties at the time the tuition is paid.
Yeah, the guy sounds like he was confrontational. But still, the university is probably waaaaay out on a limb regarding the extremely poor way they handled it. Besides the legal niceties noted above, it does not reflect well on the university administration that they let their chains be yanked this easily.
And regarding your last two paragraphs: I am a somewhat lapsed Methodist, and stuff like this is way. I can tell you already that complaining to the national UMC council will do no good at all, because Hamline's actions are only a reflection of the policies that the UMC supports. Yea, you're right; those tolerance ads they run are a complete joke. The UMC contributes heavily to the World Council of Churches, which supports leftist revolutionary efforts around the world. When you drop a ten-spot in the collection plate at a UMC Methodist church, that's where a signinficant percentage of it goes.
Since when is confronting authority figures about disagreements over Civil Rights a sign of immaturity?
Um..some Rights are more Civil than others?
Through Captain Ed: A commentor found some posts, supposedly by Sheffler, at the following address:
http://forum.axishistory.com/viewtopic.php?t=32970
They read as follows:
promanure
Member
Jews are hardly "scapegoats"... I guess instead you would rather live in naivity...
This is from a previous post of mine, it just fits now though...
I guess I am not sure how "crazy" Hitler was, but if he is then I guess I am wavering on the brink of insanity. I say this because almost all his ideologies I agree with. He respected democracy per se in as much that is was in essence a good way for the people to run a government. His problem came when his country was overrun with corruption in democracy. He realized that the only way to clean out the corruption was to dictate his country's future. He believed that with corruption in a multi ruled government, people could blame each other without any one person being held accountable. We see this with the United States today. Republicans and Democrats constantly blame each other and neither care about what happens to this country. I saw Hitler's point when Jesse Ventura was elected governor of Minnesota. Ventura (an independent) tried to take the democratic approach and the corrupt parties destroyed him. Although I believe democracy to be one of the best governmental structures, I have to say that Hitler's philosophy is strong after democracy becomes corrupted. To add to this "crazy" hysteria, you have to understand that if Hitler was nuts then most of Europe was. I am unsure of any other war in history where an occupied people flocked to join the ranks of their occupiers as was seen when foreigners jumped at the chance to join the Waffen SS and fight to the death. The main reason this happened was people all over Europe were sick of the Bolshevik revolution resounding in each of their own countries. After the overthrow of the Czars in Russia and the persecution and murder of thousands of Christians under Lenin, the poison of Marxism pushed its way past Poland into Germany. This is why Hitler hated Jews and vowed to destroy Communism and the Bolshevik revolution. The persecution of Christians in modern day is not much different than in the beginning of Bolshevik Russia. By no means can I condemn all Jews, but I hardly find it coincidence that the Communist front group called the American Civil Liberties Union spends all of its efforts banning Christianity and at the same time making anti-Semitism a "hate crime." I also fail to see it as coincidence that politicians such as Chuck Schumer are following suit as seen in Waco. There you had a "compound" of Christians that happen to have guns. The popular excuse of "tax evasion" came for the government to crush any resistance. Apparently Schumer deals with supposed "tax evaders" by calling in tanks and killing everyone... Ironically, the same excuse of tax evasion was used by Schumer to imprison the infamous anti-Semite David Duke. The Bolshevik revolution is happening in USA politics, where as in Germany when Communist Jews occupied most seats in the Reichstadt, a person as extreme as Hitler rose to power. The same circumstances where Germany had most of the bankers being Jewish, we have here i.e. Greenspan. Communism in its purity is impossible, but its ideologies come in handy to repress the working class. This is why Communistic social programs and propaganda drive the middle class into the working poor and keep a nation in debt. These bankers love the interest payments the debt produces and keeps them in their elitist positions. Greenspan and the leftwing politicians have no interest in pulling anyone out of debt and the "right-wingers" are completely apathetic, exactly as in Germany. By no means can I claim that 9 out of 10 Jews are Communists but I can say that 9 out of 10 Communists are Jews. We must not forget Marx himself was Jewish. History repeats itself and Hitler understood this fact, so did his people. Oddly we Americans don't see this Communistic revolution or we just are ready to embrace it. The liberals continue to break down our borders, which was also happening in Germany. They pitted people against people (divide and conquer), fresh out of the Communist Manifesto. Why do you think Martin Luther King Jr (AKA Michael King) was chosen by Communist Jews and funded by them. They even brought him into a Communist education camp under the rule of the outwardly Communist Myles Horton (Highlander Folk School). It’s well known that Jews wrote all of King's speeches. Blacks in their view were easy puppets due to the emotional elicitation from slavery. After the FBI unraveled the Communist support behind the Civil Rights movement, the Communists motioned the courts to seal all of the information the government had on King and the Communists. The courts are overrun by Bolsheviks aiming to destroy our Constitution. The social sciences and psychological fields are also saturated with Jews. Jews also run over 60% of our media. Not only are they telling us what to think and how to think, they tell us if it is legal or not! If the Nazi's were so "crazy and evil" why did they push so hard for animal rights? Why were they already publicizing the dangers of smoking well before any other country? Why did they embrace the arts and public well being? Why did they pull their nation from disaster to a world power in less than 10 years? I suppose everyone has been so inundated by leftwing propaganda that ever envisioning that Conservatism is actually a good thing is beyond comprehension. People are either too stupid or blind to see the plan is to drive taxation and debt to the point that people will cry for government to take over everything and the Bolsheviks will be waiting to leap from the bushes... Anyone that can put two and two together after reading a history book or following politics will see I am not a "Zionist Conspiracy Theorist." Jews have been doing the same routine for over 2000 years, with one of the earliest countries being Egypt.
Good luck with all your endeavors!
promanure
Member
Joined: 04 Oct 2003
Location: United States - Minnesota
06 Oct 2003 00:48
Post subject:
Basically the whole Nazi regime has been under a barrage of smear campaigns the day after Berlin fell... Give me a break, if Hitler was such a raving Satanic lunatic, poop and urine fetish weirdo, failure of a painter, evil doer, etc etc etc, he never would have gained power... The stories just keep getting more and more ridiculous. Of course the real reason the media continues to do this is so any conservative that has any influence can immediately be considered Hitler and then be politically beheaded by the stigma. To further embelish upon that satanic garbage, Hitler repected religion; his mother by the way was a devout Catholic. Everyone has been so brainwashed from the propaganda that Hitler was a beast and pure evil that they only search for what supports this contention....
promanure
Member
Joined: 04 Oct 2003
Location: United States - Minnesota
06 Oct 2003 00:57
Post subject:
Oh by the way, if you want to read the book to really see what the Nazi movement was about in relation to social context, read Mein Kampf. The similarities of his time with ours are ominously alike. Of course I would remain objective due to Mein Kampf's source, but compare its ideologies with other sources. So far I can't find a fault. It's unfortunate that the truth surrounding WWII is close to impossible to sift through, but it can be done... What I am trying to learn more about is why Churchill fed Roosevelt false intelligence to draw America into the war. The irony continues to this day, as Britain once again gave false intel to further the US and the Iraq objective... Furthermore, is it coincidence that Iraq is bitter enemies with Israel?
Typical Guy? I wouldn't hire him as my Attorney, and I hire a lot of Attorneis.
Attornies
Oooo yeah. Good call, Helen. Sounds like a reasonable guy. Just your run-of-the-mill conservative. Apparently, he's looking for a Second Amendment lawyer. Why not get Glenn to help?
Highly offensive. Sounds like a nutball. But does this make him dangerous enough to suspend from classes and post cops in front of his door?
I need hardly point out that campus radicals of other political stripes write stuff at least this nasty all the time without being censured. And if the local Muslim student organization published a pamphlet with exactly the same contents, nobody would bat an eye.
Before passing judgement, I'd really need to know more about this guy's history - whether he's always been a crank or if some event (possibly involving the university admins) brought this on. It would also help to know if his rants have been getting more threatening over time.
There's cranks, and then there's dangerous cranks...
tomcal: I can't find that comment on Captain's Quarters. Do you have a link to it?
Cousin Dave:
http://forum.axishistory.com/viewtopic.php?t=32970
The link is referenced in the comment thread on a post by Captain Ed about how he interviewed Scheffler. I said "supposedly by Scfeffler" because I have no verification that "promanure" is indeed Scheffler.
What I wonder is why Scheffler wanted a CCW permit in the first place. Of course to have it his right, but honestly very few 31 year old students have them.
In a lot of ways they are a pain in the ass. You can't go into bars, you have to be very careful entering any government building, and a lot of people get really freaked out if they learn that you are carrying a gun, so you have to wear heavier clothes than you might like in order to conceal them. When you do have to go into a no-carry zone, you have to leave the gun in your car, so you worry that someone breaking into or stealing the car will obtain it; and you take it apart and bring some necessary part with you; then you have to put it back together again. etc. etc. etc.
I got my permit when I was 38 and it was because I manage more than 40 acres of warehouse space located in one of the worst sections of Los Angeles. Ocassionally I have to go there at night, and lots of times if a property goes vacant, the gangs almost immediately move in and claim it as their "turf". Walking into a vacant warehouse in South Central is always a spooky experience.
In Calif, you have to go through a pretty intensive proctological search to get a CCW, you have to show a compelling reason, and you have to be re-certified by additional background checks and testing every 2 years. This is the reason why California CCW holders have their rights honored in so many other states, while the rights of holders in only pocketful of other states are honored in California.
Many states have so-called "shall issue" laws, and according to my understanding, under such laws there is a far greater burden on the state to prove why an applicant should be denied.
I don't know the licensing regulations of the state where Sheffler got his permit. But if I were deciding, and if the above rantings are indeed his, I would not issue one to him.
Here it is, what we have all been waiting for:
Troy Scheffler's e-mails to Hamline University staffers
From: Tough Guy Scheffler
To: David Stern
Subject: I dont think the students need the counseling...
Sent: Tuesday, April 17, 2007 10:54 PM
Considering this university also pushes "diversity" initiatives like VA Tech, maybe its "leadership" will reconsider its ban on conceal carry law abiding gun owners... Ironically, according to a few VA Tech forums, there are plenty of students complaining that this wouldnt have happened if the school wouldnt have banned their permits a few months ago...
I just dont understand why leftists dont understand that criminals dont care about laws; that is why they're criminals... Maybe this school will reconsider its repression of law abiding citizens rights.
Considering that accoriding to the university president that there were recently serious "hate crimes" that were committed in the womens bathrooms; there may be people on the edge ready to snap. I cant say I blame them, I myself am tired of having to pay my own extremely overpriced tuition to make up for minorities not paying theirs. On top of that, I am sick of seeing them held to a different standard than the white students (Of course its a lower and more lenient standard).
Oh by the way, when is your "diversity" department going to include European ancestry?
Respectfully,
Troy Scheffler
>>> "Tough Guy Scheffler" >>> 4/19/2007 10:15 PM >>>
I was wondering why a swastika painted by some frustrated ladies in their bathroom turned somehow into red flags of a hate crime but you dont consider an asian guy admittedly killing people because he hated them not hate motivated...
Anyhow, in response to your most recent email concerning a vigil for people most likely nobody in the school knows; I would like to comment on your claims of upped "security". I attend a MPLS cohort so I dont see any security in the area ever. Infact it seems the dirty bums on the street are the only ones patrolling anything. I would suggest if you are truley concerned about student security, you lift a ridiculous conceal carry campus ban and let the students worry about their own "security". VA Tech just recently passed their conceal carry permit ban; we can all see how well that worked for criminal minds.
Ironically, many students from VA Tech are in online forums which I can direct you to complaining that 32 people wouldnt have died in the students rights were not infringed by banning their legal right to carry their arms on their person. They take the argument that they would have shot the guy before he was able to massacre that many people; I on the other hand would argue that the guy wouldnt have even attempted this atrocity not only if we didnt pay for everybody and their mother to come here for free to soak up tuition funds but also that by knowing law abiding citizens carried weapons to defend themselves that criminals wouldnt be so bold to commit crimes against them...
As usual, Im sure this plea of common sense will fall on deaf ears as I recently responded to a general email notifying students of the conceal carry ban...
On a lighter note... For a "Christian" university, I am very disappointed in Hamline. With the motif of the curriculum, the atheist professors, jewish and other non-Christian staff, I would charge the school with wanton misrepresentation.
Yes, I obviously feel that Hamline has been a serious let down, so far I am almost finished with half of my MAPA degree and havent even cracked a book. All the books that came in plastic wrap are still in plastic wrap despite the ridiculous amounts students are charged. I have yet to hear a student in my cohort that is happy with the curriculum or quality of professors. Why does this school charge so much for such a substandard education?
Furthermore, why are you diversity initiatives anti-Euro American (ie white folks)? All over the university grounds I see loads of leftist propaganda, why not warn a student before they enroll at Hamline? It took me complaining to a few different people before even the hamline website finally included white people in the random pictures on the main page. If I remember corrextly it was like 1 white in a picture out of like 12... Now it is obviously better but just goes to show how biased this university is and the painstaking efforts of diversity pandering it does at the expense of people that are actually planning on contributing back to the TAXPAYERS that are footing the bill for your diversity initiatives. In fact, 3 out of 3 students just in my class that are "minorities" are planning on returning to Africa and all 3 are getting a free education ON MY DOLLAR. I bet the staff here is wondering how a swastika ended up in a bathroom... More people than you can imagine are tired of this all. It's just sad that they resort to petty vandalism rather than speak their mind like I am.
Please stop alienating the students that are working hard every day to pay for their tuition. Maybe you can instruct your staff on sensitivity training towards us "privilaged white folk". If your staff is going to continually berate the evil white male for this privilage and his racist tendencies, at least have them explain where to find the privilages and point out the evil people that are ruining the world. Strange for how horribly racist Europeans and other white people are that everyone seems to want to exploit our generosity. Maybe someday the favor will be returned but I doubt it seeing what I have so far...
Thanks for your time...
Respectfully,
Troy Scheffler
My final opinion:
The guy has some wacky ideas, if it were up to me I would not issue him a carry permit, but the school is WAY out of line.
Tom
tomcal:
That seems like an awfully strange position to take. He may or may not have a second amendment right to a firearm. But he certainly has no right to an education at a private university like Hamline.
He has right to own a firearm, and im my opinion he should have a right to carry it too, with no questions asked. Unfortunately the various states have, for the most part, chosen to limit the right to carry loaded firearms in public places, they have gotten away with it, and you have to obtain a license to carry except in national forrests, on private property, etc. My comment applies with respect to existing regulations for concealed carry, and under those I would not issue him a permit.
On the other hand, I believe that there should be no restrictions, period.
As far as the university goes, my opinion is based on the assumption that there must be a campus code of conduct, and that there must be some process for violations thereof. Scheffler entered the University, he presumably paid his tuition, and he agreed to behave according to certain standards. This is an issue of breach of contract, or tort, between the university and Sheffler.
I have not seen the university's code of conduct, nor its precedures for dealing with a breach of it. If it says that the administration has the right to expell a student, in its sole discretion, for any reason, at any time, then Scheffler has no complaint. If any proceedure allowing a student to defend himself or explain violations, or to receive a warning, appears in the diciplinary preceedures, it appears to me, from the facts I know, that the University is probably in breach of contract.
The CQ piece indicates that Sheffler is the nicest guy you'd ever hope to meet. Judging by his emails, I'd say that's a stretch. Some of his opinions aren't much different than the ones I've seen expressed in this and other blogs. These emails are so belligerent in tone, however, that they could not fail to alienate the school's administrators. This is the kind of stuff it's ok to write on conservative blogs. It's not ok, however, if you're trying to persuade a leftist bureaucracy to change its ways. I agree that their response may not have been legal, but it's hardly surprising.
If he's sincere in his beliefs and truly wants to change the atmosphere on his campus, he needs to learn to communicate better. If the administrators think he's a pain in the ass and want to get rid of him, they should - as others here have said - do so through the processes that they themselves created.
Kinda' goes back to the idea of the "Social Contract". If you want to enjoy all the benefits of society, you have to act in accordance with its written and unwritten rules.
If you chose to violate those rules, you will suffer penalties. At times, violating the rules may be necessary to create societal change; and if you believe strongly enough in a cause, it may be worth it to you to suffer the consequences of breaking away from the herd.
Personally, when I take on a cause, I try to do it in a way that I hope at least looks reasonable to those who disagree with me.
I don't think Sheffler has acquired this level of maturity; and frankly, I don't think he ever will.
bugs:
I wonder why the CQ piece sends out a plea for a Second Amendment laywer to do pro bono work for Troy.
He got thrown out of a private school based on statements he made to the administration. His beef is with them. It's a contract dispute.
No one took his gun away, did they?
I don't see the connection to the Second Amendment. Will someone please explain to me how his Second Amnenment rights have been violated?
I think the Second Amendment is on the back burner in his case. His problems now, as TC says, have to do with the school violating due process. Maybe also the First Amendment, since they suspended him over a piece of writing.
I'm not saying people should always try to change the system "from within." Just that if they're going to go outside the system, they need to do so wisely - with some sort of strategy in mind. Even if all you do is march downtown and get arrested, your arrest should serve some actual purpose in advancing your cause. And I don't mean just "drawing attention" to your cause. You need to draw the right kind of attention from the right people. Otherwise, I think you're just indulging your ego.
Which, I guess, brings up the question: Did Sheffler send his little screed with the intention of provoking the administration into an unreasonable response - one that would make him look like a victim and them appear as hypocrites? If so, does it appear to have worked?
Interesting that there were many comments supporting Scheffler before anyone knew anything about him, other than the propaganda he releaseed to the media. Now that we have solid examples of his writings, everyone seems to be running for cover...
In my experience that is usually the case when the facts begin to come out.
Tomcal,
My point here is that if someone like Scheffler has conservative ideas, it is easy for the university to get rid of him. Look how quickly they did it and even had police stationed at his class from what I understand. Now, take a look at the case with Cho, the VT killer. He stalked women, scared the entire class and professors to the point where no one would come to class and professors wanted him out of class. But no one would do anything to get rid of him the same way they quickly suspended and got rid of Scheffler. What is the difference? My guess? The university did not like Scheffler's disagreement with their diversity program.
I am not "running for cover." I am just asking why is it so easy to get rid of one type of student, e.g. one with conservative ideas albeit a bit racist etc. but not another, one who frightens others, stalks women and is belligerent. Why should one student stay even though he is causing problems in class--something I did hear Scheffler did--and the other so easily be suspended? What is the difference? One "looked" threatening to the administration and their diversity program and the other, just was threatening to the students and professors. So the administration didn't care enough to do anything.
tomcal,
Sorry, the above should say--something I did not hear that Scheffler did.
On a campus the size of VT's, it doesn't surprise me that Cho never showed up on the administration's radar. Others in the system were probably responsible for dealing with people like him. As we know, the system failed.
Sheffler, on the other hand, went straight after his administrators. He wanted their attention, and he got it.
But I think I understand your point about his conservatism. Again, if he were a member of an approved victim group, they probably would have named a cafeteria after him.
Well, if he ever makes it big, I imagine him funding a new building:
The Scheffler Center for the Study of the Bill of Rights.
Viewed from the air, it will look like a giant M-16 lying on the ground.
It might have an observation tower, in the form of a lifed arm giving the world the finger.
Or, because none of his writings seem to move far from this symbol, it will have a giant swastika somewhere on the premises. Perhaps inlaid in the marble floor of the entry hall.
And a huge bronze bust of Hitler at the center of the Swastika.
In fact the door handles of the entry will be likenesses of Hitler doing his little jig in celebration of the fall of Paris, just to remind the world what a fun-loving guy he was.
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