Wednesday, September 27, 2006

New York to Ban Trans Fats?

Dave at the Crisper Blog has the lowdown on NYC banning trans fatty acids in restaurants. Can the government really operate like a nanny state and tell people what to put in their bodies? I say, "no," it should not. I do not care that it may be unhealthy--the overriding principle is that people have the right to choose what to put in their bodies, no matter what. Why not just have the restaurant list the amount of trans fat on their menu? Then consumers can decide if this is right for themselves. How can citizens ever learn personal responsibility if their choices are made for them by those who "know best?"

45 Comments:

Blogger Sarebear said...

Agree.

8:43 PM, September 27, 2006  
Anonymous Dave Johnston said...

You're right on with this, Helen..."How can citizens ever learn personal responsibility if their choices are made for them by those who "know best?"

That brings up a whole line of thinking that I had not pondered.

The rush to BAN trans fatty acids is coming so fast that I'm not even sure the majority of the consuming public even knows what they are. I think I take for granted that I learned about them sometime in 2001 or so.

Before the public even gets a chance to understand what the product is in the first place we're already off and banning it. That's insane.

And I 100% agree - as you will see repeatedly over at my blog - that we should have a right to put whatever garbage we want into our bodies. And I run a health website, imagine that!

Yes, that makes me a nutjob libertarian, and proud of it.

12:24 AM, September 28, 2006  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

I have no opinion on the ban, but I prefer to avoid hydrogenated oils, and it's really difficult because that stuff is in everything. I'd like to point out that there's a difference between banning trans-fats and banning smoking, for instance. Some people smoke for pleasure. This trans-fat ban wouldn't interfere with anyone's persuit of pleasure. Hydrogenated fat doesn't taste any better than the healthier fats like coconut oil, butter, olive oil, etc. The reason the food industry uses hydrogenated fats is only because they're cheaper and have a longer shelf life. So, this is one product that the consumer wouldn't really miss. Again, I don't know whether hydrogenated oils should be illegal, but I personally go to a lot of trouble to avoid them, because other types of oil taste better and are much, much healthier. I've noticed that many other consumers share my preference, and many prepared foods such as frozen breaded chicken parts, etc. are increasingly becoming available with "real" oil instead of hydrogenated.

2:12 AM, September 28, 2006  
Blogger Rizzo said...

The reason the food industry uses hydrogenated fats is only because they're cheaper and have a longer shelf life.

Not sure this is the only reason. The nannies previously waged a war on things high in saturated fat, like butter and lard, which is why many or most fast food restaurants fry their foods in trans fat. If McDonald's gets to bring back their old French Fries, I'm all for it. At any rate, I agree. I'm not sure trans fats should be outlawed, but they certainly should be avoided.

9:08 AM, September 28, 2006  
Blogger Cham said...

How do we know what restaurant options have trans fat or saturated fat?

We don't.

Unlike packaged food in the stores, we don't have a clue to what restaurants use as ingredients. I think most people would be shocked as to how much butter is used at their corner bistro.

Many of us have to watch our cholesterol, which often means avoiding restaurant food. It would be nice if restaurants would give us a clue as to what ingredients they use in their food offerings.

10:41 AM, September 28, 2006  
Blogger Meade said...

Ideally, restaurants would voluntarily eliminate trans fats from the food they serve and then post notice, for their customers' information, of doing so.

It's the law that employees must wash their hands before returning to work after using the restroom. Trans fat may not be E. coli but it's pretty clear that it's implicated in chronic diseases such as heart disease, heart attacks, and diabetes and intake of trans fat in any amount may have adverse effects on the consumer.

When it comes to public health, libertarianism can easily be taken too far.

11:32 AM, September 28, 2006  
Anonymous Bilwick said...

I'm going to take a wild guess that in meade's statement "libertarianism can be taken too far," that "too far" translates as, "when it conflicts with my desire to force people to do what I want them to do." At least, I've found that's the usual translation. Thanks, meade, for telling me what I can and cannot consume. I'd be lost without people like you.

12:08 PM, September 28, 2006  
Blogger Meade said...

Minimizing taxation and regulation by the government is what I'm talking about, bilwick. That's why I used the word "voluntary." If you wish to dine in an eatery that fails to enforce hand-washing regulations, by all means, please be my guest.

I'm not suggesting telling you what you can and cannot consume. However, might I suggest a dose of Valium? (After first checking with your health care provider, of course.)

12:26 PM, September 28, 2006  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

"How can citizens ever learn personal responsibility if their choices are made for them by those who "know best?"

Margo Wootan of the Center for Science in the Public Interest (CSPI)sums up the answer: "We have got to move beyond personal responsibility."

A whole series of similarly infuriating quotes can be found at http://www.consumerfreedom.com/news_detail.cfm/headline/2489

There's a rather large cohort of the more statist among us who never quite got over the thrill (personal or vicarious depending on age) of the civil rights movement. They were right to fight Jim Crow school systems and voting laws, but they've spent the last 40 years looking for other opportunities to instruct their moral inferiors in a whole range of topics.

This need to see a solution imposed by the "betters" has screwed up the pursuit of any number of useful goals like equal rights for women and gays, further civil rights progress, and better health choices in terms of either diet or environmental practices. I'm not sure how you rid either the individuals or the movements of the need for control mixed with nostalgia.

1:00 PM, September 28, 2006  
Anonymous JKB said...

Anonymous 2:12 AM, you obviously do not cook. Shortening has many uses as an ingredient in its own right. Perhaps you've never appreciated the difference in flakiness in a pie crust made with all butter and one with some butter and more shortening.

However, you fear food and do not wish to imbibe the latest scary ingredient. A fair request. Better that the restaurant inform you of the dishes with trans fats so that you can make an informed choice. But why should my culinary experience be impaired due to your fears?

I'm willing to leave it to the market. If the information is provided, you can select the higher priced trans fat free dishes, whereas I can select the dishes based on taste experience whether they be more or less expensive. The proprietor can then adjust his menu to meet the needs of his most profitable customers. True, there could turn out to be more of you than their are of me, in which case, I guess I'll be cooking at home with my hidden stash of Crisco. In the end though, we'll both have a choice and retain our liberty.

1:25 PM, September 28, 2006  
Anonymous Bilwick said...

So I misinterpreted you, meade? You're actually a libertarian? My interpretation of your "too far" was incorrect?

1:38 PM, September 28, 2006  
Blogger copy editor said...

Bars are supposed to close at 4 am too. Is it 4? 5? I never can remember. But, my point is, I look forward to illegal trans fat places.

4:01 PM, September 28, 2006  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

whatever happened to "Keep your laws off my body" ?

4:17 PM, September 28, 2006  
Blogger g said...

"...the overriding principle is that people have the right to choose what to put in their bodies, no matter what."

"whatever happened to 'Keep your laws off my body' ?"


The nanny state is here and well established. Smoking and restaurant nazis are just the latest manifestation.
There's prohibition (classic and current), prostitution bans, prescription requirements for pharmaceuticals, and the tentacles of regulation into every facet of our lives.

End professional licensing! Why should the Government dictate who is allowed to color my nails or cut my hair? In a truly free society, and foole would be able to hang out a sign offering his/her services as a doctor, lawyer, or auto mechanic. Or even as a forensic psychologist. (It's all a scam, anyway!) But we wouldn't need doctors! We could self medicate our own hangnails with cocaine and interferon! Ease our kids into beddie-bye with warm milk and codeine! The only medical authority we'd need would be Oprah! could sell the water from my magical backyard tap as a flu cure (guaranteed or next time it's free!) and I could market my used antifreeze as fine brandy! I could get married by the half-hour to whoever whenever and however many as I choose. (Monogamy, homophobia, age restrictions and bestiality fears are all middle-class oppressions, anyway. THEY DON'T WANT YOU TO BE HAPPY.) And, as everyone knows, all this needless Government interference is a plot to keep the rich rich, and to deny life saving medications and life sustaining recreational enhancements to the rest of us!!! Freedom now! All power to the people!! Caveat emptor!!!

7:38 PM, September 28, 2006  
Blogger serket said...

Voluntary enforcement was tried and it wasn't very effective which is why they are doing a ban. Experts say natural oils are not more expensive. When I first heard about this I thought they were banning all fast food which I opposed. But I have now heard that replacing trans fats with other oils would not change the flavor or texture so I don't think it's a bad idea. But I think Dr. Helen's suggestion about telling the consumer what is in the foods would be a good idea also. I also support smoking bans, because most of my family smokes and it is really irritating that I am forced to live in unhealthy conditions because of their poor decisions.

De Niro has role in NYC trans fat debate

9:18 PM, September 28, 2006  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

The 'Food Nazis' got manufactures to discontinue 'tropical oils' in the '70s. Potato chips have tasted lousy ever since. Now, we find out that the new product is worse for us than was the original. There must be a special place in hell for these self-righteous busybodies!

Blogger is refusing to allow link to be posted. Curse them, too.

9:51 PM, September 28, 2006  
Blogger Aric said...

CSPI, March 1988:

"All told, the charges against trans fat just don't stand up. And by extension, hydrogenated oils seem relatively innocent."

http://www.tcsdaily.com/article.aspx?id=062306C

10:49 PM, September 28, 2006  
Blogger David said...

So I guess this wasn't a parody after all...

11:25 PM, September 28, 2006  
Blogger Mercurior said...

i have a perfect solution, will stop all fat people, make everyone "healthy", stop all this unfair trade,

its called rationing, make all the shops a part of the government, give everyone a card that allows them to be fed, this this and this.. control all the food, so no bad stuff, no one will be fat, make all clothes shops part of the state, so that no one will wear different things, in case it upsets others,

(and you think i am joking.. scary thing is.. i can see this in 10 years or so)

4:44 AM, September 29, 2006  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

To all of you who are complaining about the "nanny state". I'm all for getting government off our backs as long as your addiction or bad choices doesn't affect my pocketbook. The ones that want the tropical oil in the potato chips, the Crisco in their pie crusts and unlimited red meat might be the very same ones who run to the Medicaid office when their health deteriorates and they can't pay their medical bills. You can't have it both ways. Either you take care of your own medical bills or expect a little oversight when someone else is forced to pay.

9:33 AM, September 29, 2006  
Blogger TMink said...

Well, the fat nazis will soon invade this topic, talking about how overweight people cramp their style and crimp their pocketbook. Sigh.

It all started with the anti-smoking ban. They are the same people. We were mistaken to let the camel's nose under the tent with smoking bans, because these folks will not stop. Don't fool youself, butter is next. They are just this way, like a cancer, they reproduce and spread.

I do not like to eat where people are smoking either, but I put up with it because I know what the puritans are like and I would prefer gagging on the smoke to losing my freedoms to the socialist nannies.

Trey

10:07 AM, September 29, 2006  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

I do take care care of my own medical bills. I'm self employed, and pay for my own health insurance and medical bills. (Note: INSURANCE, not "health plan". And if you don't know the difference, you are too freaking stupid to be in this debate in the first place!) I'd gladly opt out of Social Security and Medicare of only your totalitarian nanny state would let me. Legalize freedom!!!

10:11 AM, September 29, 2006  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

"if only"

looked right in preview!

10:12 AM, September 29, 2006  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

anonymous 9:33-

People that think like you are still around? Throughout history we've had to kill people like to to achieve and protect our freedom. Monarchists. Nazis. Fascists. Shintoists. Communists. Islamofascists. Now it's your turn, whatever brand of totalitarianism you profess. Damn you for making this necessary, but WE WILL BE FREE.

10:28 AM, September 29, 2006  
Blogger Meade said...

A ban is a bad idea, but requiring vendors to post notice of food containing trans fats, lead, arsenic, and e. coli isn't.

Let the informed buyer beware.

1:50 PM, September 29, 2006  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

You want vendors to warn you beforehand when their spinach contains e. coli? Hows this gonna work?

And isn't it bad enough already that we live in a world where people have to be told by a warning label to cook their meat and wash their greens before eating? How much longer can a society of such stupid morons continue to function?

2:31 PM, September 29, 2006  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

I think a ban would be dramatic and possible make a statement that trans fats do not belong in the food source. I own a restaurant and switched to rice oil 3 years ago.It did not change anything except the food tasted better and there was no extra cost-so why not make the change and protect the hearts of our nation. Isn't heart disease the number 1 killer in America? Can't we do better.

7:35 PM, September 29, 2006  
Anonymous Richard Blaine said...

Bullwash!!! You've never held a F&B job in your life. Nothing higher than dishwasher, anyway. Never management, kitchen or purchasing. If you had, you wouldn't dare make such a stupid and easily disprovable assertion!!!

(Me? I've been in food service since 1972. Management since 1976. Proprietor since 1987. Don't know much, but I know F&B. And I know my fry mediums. There IS a difference, in cost and taste.)

9:15 PM, September 29, 2006  
Blogger Mercurior said...

a lot of these soya oils used in cooking are actually bad for your health.

soya can be dangerous

http://www.second-opinions.co.uk/vegetarian.html#link20

Like all seeds, soybeans have phytic acid in their hulls, but soybeans have considerably more. This substance binds with several minerals, notably calcium, zinc and iron in such a way that it prevents the digestion from absorbing them. This can result in deficiencies of these essential minerals.

Soybeans also contain other undesirable chemicals:

¨ Potent enzyme inhibitors that block the action of trypsin, a digestive enzyme needed to digest proteins. This leads not only to chronic amino acid deficiencies but also to enlargement of the pancreas (in animals) and cancer.

¨ Hemaglutinin, which promotes the clumping of red blood cells. These clumped cells are less able to take up oxygen and carry it to body tissues. Hemaglutinin is also known to retard growth.

Fermentation reduces these harmful effects. Miso and tamari are fermented soy products.

On the other hand bean curd and tofu are made by precipitating soybean with either calcium sulphate or magnesium sulphate. Soy products made by this method are not as safe as the fermented products. Nevertheless, tofu accounts for some ninety percent of processed soybeans eaten in Asia today.

7:34 AM, September 30, 2006  
Anonymous Class factotum said...

The reason the food industry uses hydrogenated fats is only because they're cheaper and have a longer shelf life. So, this is one product that the consumer wouldn't really miss.

Of course the consumer would miss it. We would have to pay higher prices for the more expensive fats that have a shorter shelf life. The reason the restaurants probably didn't voluntarily switch to other fats is that it would have cost them money and there was no market demand for them to do so.

If you are so scared of what the restaurant is serving, ask the waiter. But don't make me pay higher prices so you can inflict your will on the rest of us.

8:16 AM, September 30, 2006  
Blogger TMink said...

I have heard that the Belgians have the best french fries, and that they fry em in rendered beef lard.

Trey

12:13 PM, September 30, 2006  
Blogger Mercurior said...

its the puritan streak coming out again, anything nice, tasty, good, must be somehow evil, as god would never manke anything that tastes nice.. so they are finding more reasons to ban..

as any toxicologist says .. poison is in the dosage.. theres a chemical in bread, that does cause cancer.. they found it gave mice cancer. unfortunatly what they "forgot" to tell people is that for a human to get cancer with that same chemical.. they would have to eat 23,000 pieces of bread a day..

too much of anything is bad, but so it too little..

4:13 AM, October 02, 2006  
Blogger J. Peden said...

The "trans fat" scare is just one of the latest Bogeymen to be conjured up by Faux Liberal controllists, searching for their own meaning in life by controlling anything and everything, regardless - so they can say they "did something" or "made a difference".

Trans fats are merely partially saturated/hydrogenated fats, in effect. Notice that they were given a new name - in order to confuse people. You are not going to die from eating some partially saturated fats every once in a while. No one is going to be saved by not eating them in restaurants, or by not eating them at all. What a load of....!

But if you don't want to eat them, fix your own food. You are probably also grossly obsessive-compulsive and fear life more than death.

So leave everyone else alone. Well, that won't ever work, given the nature of the neurosis. So we have to fight.

1:35 AM, October 03, 2006  
Blogger TMink said...

"Faux Liberal controllists." Wow, what a phrase! That really solidifies some thoughts I have had for some time, the "tyranny of liberalism." Or some conservatism for that matter. Thanks.

Trey

2:31 PM, October 03, 2006  
Blogger J. Peden said...

Trey, I call 'em "Fliberals". They really have me irritated. Not that Conservatives can't be irrational also, and controllists. Agreed.

11:19 PM, October 03, 2006  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Benjamin Franklin said "Those who trade essential liberties for temporary security deserve neither liberty nor security".

That holds true to the trans fat debacle. If you allow the food nazis (in PETA, CSPI, and the government) to tell you what you LEGALLY can and cannot eat, then you deserve to be a slave in a totalitarian police state, and you deserve all the hell that the police state will inflict on you.

To be for freedom, you have to be for it 100%. Anything less, and you support tyranny. Gutless cowards who are afraid to speak out deserve tyranny.

11:53 PM, October 08, 2006  
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