Sunday, September 17, 2006

We Thought We Were the Movers and Shakers, So How Come Everyone is Laughing at Us?

Well, forget the tits, it's all just really about the blog lunch that backfired. The lefty bloggers thought they hit the big time lunching with former President Clinton but all that happened is that the blogosphere was reminded of Clinton's prior groping behavior and inappropriate conduct. Maybe if some on the left would stop being so reactionary, people might start listening to them again. But they can't seem to help themselves. By piling all over Ann Althouse they made sure that everyone was reminded of Bill Clinton's checkered past, and of the lefty blogosphere's worship of (Democratic) power over principles.

Update: The reason this woman will not be going back to Feministing:

The part I don't understand is this: Who did Jessica think she was aligning herself with when she decided to be a part of this picture? If she truly believes that a woman deserves to be seen as more than a collection of sexually-appealing body parts, then why would she choose to associate herself with Clinton of all people? It just doesn't make sense. Then today when I visited her website I see this post: Anti-feminist hypocrisy.

Now, can someone please explain to me how Jessica could have a post on her site talking about how a woman posed nude in some photographs and still have some justifiable complaint about people discussing her breasts? Am I the only one who noticed that the link on that post is to another post entitled "Somebody Slap this Slut"?

Given all of this, I see her gripe regarding a discussion about her breasts to be quite hypocritical. If Ann's post was as "un-feminist" as Jessica seems to think, then what should we think of what's on her website? How can someone with a blog featuring a discussion about how a woman's nude photos showed her "open wide" really have room to complain about this post? I'd love to hear some of those who are so offended by Ann's post show how that's logical.

As for the idea that Clinton should have felt honored to be in the room with these bloggers, all I can say is this: I think that all of these people deserved each other because I figure every politician needs sheeple who support him and Peter Daou went out and found Clinton a group of bloggers who were willing to sell out progressive causes in order have the opportunity to take that photo.

I gave up on feministing months ago when the writing on the wall came in the form of Jessica

1. deciding to allow her readers to repeatedly make racist comments to a blogger that she had interviewed

and

2. leaving this interview (along with the despicable comments) on her site despite the interviewee's request for feministing to remove the post since she no longer wanted to be associated with what they were willing to allow there. That means I have a little more time to explore other blogs. I know one thing for sure. I'd definitely prefer to check out Althouse regularly before I'd ever go back to visiting Feministing when I'm on the look out for logical arguments but hey, that's just me. What do I know, I'm just another inconsequential black chic whose probably just envious because I can't be just like these clowns, right?


Apparently, this is not the first time that the Feministing blog has had problems with hypocrisy. It probably won't be the last.

103 Comments:

Blogger Cham said...

Helen, I looked at the satellite map for Tennessee and it is going to be a beautiful day today. Get out there and ride your bike or take a walk. The blog can wait. Bill Clinton left office years ago. It doesn't really matter who has lunch with him today. Time for a break and maybe a new topic for next week.

9:17 AM, September 17, 2006  
Anonymous GM Roper said...

Cham, Helen is reporting what others are saying, thinking, discussing.

Squelching public discourse because you don't like the topic?

9:25 AM, September 17, 2006  
Blogger Larry said...

Many of the commenters, yesterday, continued to act as if they were'nt trying convince people to join their "side". Any idea why they do that?

I agree with cham - let the blog rest, today.

9:28 AM, September 17, 2006  
Blogger dadvocate said...

This comment has been removed by a blog administrator.

9:58 AM, September 17, 2006  
Blogger dadvocate said...

While, for some reason, lefties adore Clinton, the rest of us realize that he primarily serves as material for comedy. Trying to use him to further a cause or message for feminism, etc is, well, a joke.

I was surprised how the discussion thread progressed yesterday. Reading the post before anyone else posted, my first reaction was not regarding the woman's frontal protuberances but, since Clinton was standing directly behind her, "What was he groping at that moment?"

It's a nice day in Ohio. I've got to mow the lawn but I'll be checking blogs during breaks. Do as you please.

9:59 AM, September 17, 2006  
Blogger somefeller said...

This comment has been removed by a blog administrator.

11:32 AM, September 17, 2006  
Blogger Fenrisulven said...

"The Nutroots: Our Principles Are As Flexible As Our Interns. Join Now!"

11:32 AM, September 17, 2006  
Blogger somefeller said...

In blogfights like this, a certain pattern is predictable. First, a conservative blogger insults a progessive blogger, usually in a very personal and petty manner. The progressive blogger then defends himself or herself, with allies backing that blogger up. At that point, no matter what the progressive blogger and his/her allies say, the conservative blogger and his or her allies declare the progressive blogger to be unhinged and just engaging in ad hominems. Much back and forth ensues, until the conservative blogger or one of his/her allies declares victory and says this is just proof about how reactionary/mean/out-of-touch the left is, blah blah blah.

Congratulations, Dr. Helen, you did your part nicely and closed the circle. You can now sit at home watching a copy of "The Clinton Chronicles" or reading a book about what really happened to Vince Foster in peace and satisfaction.

11:33 AM, September 17, 2006  
Blogger Fenrisulven said...

First, a conservative blogger insults a progessive blogger, usually in a very personal and petty manner.

More like: a conservative blogger points to the hypocrisy of a feminist blogger fawning over Clinton. The progressive blogger distorts the criticism as "making fun of my breasts" because she has no excuse for her hypocrisy.

The progressive blogger then defends himself or herself, with allies backing that blogger up.

No. They continue to misdierect, attacking the distorted Strawman: "Why do you hate Jessica's breasts? - You must be a
lonely bitch - Your just jealous because your breasts are old and saggy" etc.

At that point, no matter what the progressive blogger and his/her allies say, the conservative blogger and his or her allies declares the progressive blogger to be unhinged and just engaging in ad hominems

Because the progressives have done just that - become so unhinged that they can't comprehend basic english. Go back and look at Ann's thread - almost every post from a "progressive" is a nasty ad hominen.

11:42 AM, September 17, 2006  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

No, it's more like this:

Dr. Helen: "Heh. Look at that hypocrite 'feminist' blogger showing off her rack, posing with that sociopathic psychotic groper Clinton. "

"Democrat": "Oh shut up, Dr. Helen."

Dr. Helen: "See? Democrats are unhinged."

For more on Clinton's supposed sociopathic, psychotic tendencies, see Coulter, Ann.

http://mediamatters.org/items/200406250002

11:54 AM, September 17, 2006  
Blogger Tom Hilton said...

More like: a conservative blogger points to the hypocrisy of a feminist blogger fawning over Clinton.

If it's 'hypocrisy' for feminist bloggers to support a guy who, as President, consistently supported feminist causes, then what do you call it when self-proclaimed 'libertarians' fawn over a president who is actively working to gut constitutional guarantees of personal libertay?

The progressive blogger distorts the criticism as "making fun of my breasts" because she has no excuse for her hypocrisy.

Here's a shorter version of Althouse's post: "big breasts....breasty...breasts of a model....big closeup on breasts....breasts....tight knit top...breasts ...breasts....breastblog....breasts." Sorry, but there's no distortion at all in saying her puerile smirking was all about the breasts.

11:57 AM, September 17, 2006  
Blogger Fatmouse said...

As some smart guy said long ago, the greatest weakness of the left wing is an absolute inability to self-criticize. It's simply impossible for them to think the words, "wait, I might be wrong here." When criticized in any fashion whatsoever or challenged on any belief, they defy all logic to somehow prove that everyone else is wrong. It comes from the perpetually adolescent state of mind most of them occupy - arrogant, cynical and excitable.

And coming in at a close second is the knee-jerk "tu quoque" response.

12:03 PM, September 17, 2006  
Anonymous Dr. Weevil said...

Tom Hilton asks "what do you call it when self-proclaimed 'libertarians' fawn over a president who is actively working to gut constitutional guarantees of personal libertay".*

I know, I know, call on me! How about 'choosing the lesser of two evils?'

Does anyone really think electing any of the current crop of Democrats would protect more constitutional guarantees of liberty than electing one of the Republicans running?

*P.S. I hope the spelling "libertay" is not a sign of incipient ericocartmanitis.

12:07 PM, September 17, 2006  
Blogger Fatmouse said...

"a guy who, as President, consistently supported feminist causes"

This has been asked a dozen times in the threads with no leftist stepping up to the plate, but I'll try again:

WHAT feminist cause specifically did Bill Clinton advance? Seriously, what one?

12:07 PM, September 17, 2006  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Red herring & not the point.

The real issue is the sheer idiocy of Mrs. Instapundit, lecturing "Democrats" for excessive rhetoric while she indulges personal attacks on a blogger and calls a former President a "sociopath" and "psychotic."

12:19 PM, September 17, 2006  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Need more attention, helen?

12:21 PM, September 17, 2006  
Anonymous datarat said...

This is Awesome.

This whole thing would have been written off as mildly humorous snark if they'd let it die, but the flurry of attacks from the opposition bloggers has held it on the frong burner for a whole week.

Dr. Helen I hope this is driving up your ad rates. Keep blogging about anything you want.

12:21 PM, September 17, 2006  
Blogger Darleen said...

"a guy who, as President, consistently supported feminist causes"

Oh my...that does beg the question (vis a vis Jeopardy)

"A person who publicly says one thing while privately doing the opposite."

ahem

12:23 PM, September 17, 2006  
Blogger Fenrisulven said...

Sorry, but there's no distortion at all in saying her puerile smirking was all about the breasts.

Sure there is. The point was that not only did a feminist betray her principles by fawning over an influential sexual predator, she deliberately chose to objectivy herself as Eye Candy - tight blouse, shoulders arched back [and her weblog shows a pattern of using breasts as a lure].

I'm sure Clinton noticed that she had type-cast herself as one of his interns. And would not be at all surprised to discover that he hires her to "work" on Hillary's net-campaign... or to learn that this was Jessica's intention all along.

How many feminists would tease an influential sexual predator for a job? What does it say about their beleifs? And isn't all that shoulder-arching bad for her back?

12:31 PM, September 17, 2006  
Blogger Fenrisulven said...

Dr. Helen I hope this is driving up your ad rates. Keep blogging about anything you want.

The irony is that Jessica just recieved the most traffic her blog will ever get - and it wasn't over some feminist issue, it was because of her hypocrisy [or her breasts, if your a lefty with cog dis]. Its all downhill from here for her.

Maybe Bill will take pity on her. He's sure to ask after her.

12:35 PM, September 17, 2006  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Helen, I bet if you had a rack as nice as Jessica's you'd show it off too.

12:52 PM, September 17, 2006  
Blogger topsecretk9 said...

Reading all of this I was reminded by this comment of Arnold's accusation of groping vs. Clinton's demonstrated groping by film producer and Code Pink activist Patricia Foulkrod during the CA recall:

"The difference is that Clinton was so brilliant... If Arnold was a brilliant pol and had this thing about inappropriate behavior, we'd figure a way of getting around it. I think it's to our detriment to go on too much about the groping. But it's our way in. This is really about the GOP trying to take California in 2004 and our trying to stop it."

I see the "the lefty blogosphere's worship of (Democratic) power over principles." is on parade, yet again.

1:31 PM, September 17, 2006  
Anonymous bigdave said...

anonymous 12:52pm

Me thinks you are a woman. Being old school, I will not qualify your womanhood. There is no greater delight for this seasoned citizen than to gaze at Dr. Helen's beautiful face every day. Several times a day if my blood pressure gets to low. Add to that her brilliant intellect and one has the true picture of a beautiful woman.

1:38 PM, September 17, 2006  
Blogger Fenrisulven said...

I see the "the lefty blogosphere's worship of (Democratic) power over principles." is on parade, yet again

Thats another hurdle the Left is still stumbling over - they never really adressed Clinton's sexual harassment. They MovedOn and learned nothing from the incidents. We now see a new generation of liberal feminists asking: "Could you clarify Mr. Clinton's sexual harrassment for me?"

What does that say about thier mentors, the old leadership of the feminist movement?

1:44 PM, September 17, 2006  
Blogger Tom Hilton said...

WHAT feminist cause specifically did Bill Clinton advance? Seriously, what one?

Reproductive choice, for starters. And if you aren't well-informed enough to be aware of that, it's your problem--not liberals'.

Sure there is. The point was that not only did a feminist betray her principles by fawning over an influential sexual predator, she deliberately chose to objectivy herself as Eye Candy - tight blouse, shoulders arched back [and her weblog shows a pattern of using breasts as a lure].

I'm sure Clinton noticed that she had type-cast herself as one of his interns. And would not be at all surprised to discover that he hires her to "work" on Hillary's net-campaign... or to learn that this was Jessica's intention all along.

How many feminists would tease an influential sexual predator for a job? What does it say about their beleifs? And isn't all that shoulder-arching bad for her back?


Anatomy of a smear...

Let's count the examples of loaded language, speculation, and innuendo in this bit of filth:

1. "fawning over"
2. "sexual predator"
3. "deliberately chose to objectivy herself as Eye Candy"
4. "using breasts as a lure"
5. "Clinton noticed"
6. "she had type-cast herself as one of his interns"
7. "would not be at all surprised to discover that he hires her to "work" on Hillary's net-campaign"
8. "or to learn that this was Jessica's intention all along"
9. "tease an influential sexual predator for a job"

The fact that you rely on innuendo and inflammatory language demonstrates pretty clearly that you have no logical basis on which to argue your point.

1:51 PM, September 17, 2006  
Anonymous beverins said...

Great post from the Sadly, No! comments

---------
The Alternate Right Wing Dimension take on this, I suppose, is that as a feminist she should detest Bill Clinton, and therefore what she should have done is accept the invitation to lunch with him, dress in a dowdy, body-covering outfit that was dressier than the occasion called for, and when joining in on the group photo she should have stood behind people taller than she, and slouched unattractively while frowning, to indicate her distaste at being in his presence.
------------

Couldn't have said it better myself.

1:59 PM, September 17, 2006  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

I personally don't see what all the fuss is about over that picture, it seems innocent enough.

I'm afraid that we on the right have gotten so used to associating the Ex-President with potty/sexual humor that when we see him with any moderately attractive lady our reflexes go into overdrive.

Unfortunately this is going to be the true legacy of the Clinton Administration, but the initial poster in this thread is quite correct, it's not worth the trouble or the time. Nobody was doing anything improper in that photo, lets just let sleeping horndogs lie.

Peter Ingemi

PS.(I know I'm proving my own point by that last line but I just can't help myself.)


PPS.

I'm thinking that until we on the right can get over our obsessions concerning President Clinton we can't ask the left to get over their obsessions about President Bush. Lets both do our best to drop it.

2:18 PM, September 17, 2006  
Anonymous exasperated said...

Long-time conservative here, but ashamed of conservatives today. Ashamed that Althouse used a funny picture to start a series of personal attacks on a liberal blogger. Don't kid yourself that she wasn't expecting the personal attacks. Yes, it was a funny photo--it made me laugh out loud. Would I have published it on my blog? No, because it wouldn't have been nice to subject Jessica to ridicule just because of an unfortunate pose. If I have differences with Jessica, those differences are not about her appearance.

Helen saw that Althouse's blog was getting plenty of attention and decided to tag along. Not at all surprising to someone who follows Helen's blog. Original ideas aren't her thing.

This reminds me of the time Michelle Malkin made fun of Cindy Sheehan's "muffintop." Of all the things possible to make fun of when it comes to Cindy, her appearance comes last on the list. Definitely a low point in the conservative world and I will forever distrust Malkin because of it. Is it really that hard to be NICE while you disagree with someone?

2:18 PM, September 17, 2006  
Blogger Fenrisulven said...

Tom Hilton: The fact that you rely on innuendo and inflammatory language demonstrates pretty clearly that you have no logical basis on which to argue your point.

How funny. We tried logic and your crowd responded with innuendo and inflammatory language. Now you get some back and cry foul. Your side established the rules of engagement, so you can't complain that I'm choosing to speak to you in the only language you comprehend [smears and innuendo].

And its not a smear, its entirely logical:

1) If Jessica wasn't a feminist, no one would care

2) If Jessica was a feminist, but met with someone other than Clinton, no one would care

3) If Jessica's weblog didn't reveal a history/pattern of objectifying breasts as a lure, we could assume the photo was merely poor judgement on her part.

Were her choices deliberate? We'll see soon enough. I'm betting Jessica will turn up working for Hillary's net-campaign, or Bill's Presidential Library.

2:18 PM, September 17, 2006  
Blogger Fenrisulven said...

exasperated: Long-time conservative here, but ashamed of conservatives today.

Sure. I remember you from Rush's radio show. Something along the lines of I've always voted GOP but I'm so disgusted with the war-mongerers and Bush-Hitler brownshirt fascists that I'm voting for Ned Lamont this year

You are so very clever.

2:22 PM, September 17, 2006  
Blogger Graham Strouse said...

This thread has degenerated into a serier of puerile insults. I am repulsed, offended, and if this were the good old days I'd be throwing down gauntlets left and right, literally & figuratively.

Incidentally, I favor barehands & melee weapons over guns for this sort of thing. Hand-to-hand requires more skill, more will, more effort & a greater conviction & Mercury, the good of luck, the American God, has no place in this contest. Like Mr. T says, "I pity the fool."

I am growing annoyed. This thread has taken on a schoolyard quality. It is no debate.

What I see children is spastic, mean-spirited children, fighting in the sandbox over plastic toys until some adult notices the effort, admonishes them (strike one), let's them know what's coming if they don't start to behave (strike two), and finally, exasperated, bends child after child over bended knee & starts spanking (strike three).

Grade school & middle school provided me with enough traumatic memories to last a lifetime. I'd appreciate it if y'all could grow up some and stop behaving like a bunch of spoiled brats playing at debate on the gifted program's eighth grade debate team.

Check that. I don't want to insult 8th graders by comparing their occasional outbursts to this witless barrage of perpetual vituperation.

Why don't we just go re-create the trench wars in France in WWI. First Day of the Somme, anyone?

Anyone?

I say this:

Burn your voter identity cards. All of you. Renounce your allegiences to conservatism, liberalism, feminism, socialism, libertarianism, kleptoacronecrobestialism.

John Lennon had a similar idea. I just experess my feelings with a little more force is all.

There are more then six billion humans on this planet and no cave bears. Wanna no why that is?

A long time ago, people figured out that if they worked together, used their ability to communicate & coordinate & see possibilities (aka technology, aka, Really Long Spears) and used their handy opposable thumbs to wield said spears, they could, working in concert with maybe 15 or 20 close friends, put any cave bear they met at a considerable disadvantage.

That's meat on the table, boys and girls, hides which can be cured for clothing or shelter, fat which might be preserved for the winter or rendered for any number of handy uses.

Bad luck for the cave bear.

And hear we are now, tearing each other apart. We're very sophisticated.

Anyone in this space know a little about paleontology?

No? I figured. Okay. Well, it's like this, the largest land animals that ever existed, the big Jurassic saurapods, they had no natural enemies. even the largest predators had enough wit (IQ 3, maybe?) to know what it's not smart for a solitary 2-3 ton carnasour to attack a heard of apatasaurs or brachiasaurs. One whip of a bull's or a cow's or even a big juvenile's tail would send the meat-eater sprawling and break its neck.

Wanna know why these huge, vegetarian, kick butt dinosaurs became extinct? Wasn't the big rock. That came in the cretaceous. It was because the pea-brains chewed their way through foliage, and there was plenty, but they chewed and chewed and moved in concentric circles, constantly shrinking the path of available food.

Then they reached the center. And then they starved. And then the meat-eaters, the three-ton dumpster divers, they had themselves a feast, an immobile feast.

And so natural history repeats itself. We chew ourselves apart and for what end.

Oh, and as a gentleman, I politely request that posters refrain from the habit of insulting the Good Doctor by insulting comments regarding her physical attributes.

"Fighting words" are recognized in our constitution as grounds for legal defense. I tend to interpret broadly.

I don't agree with a lot of what Helen has to say (vehemently, in some cases), but I appreciate the fact that she let's people speak. Liberals and conservatives alike should take note that this a rare blog where there both species exist and are welcome. In any event, the quality of Helen's "rack" should not be a topic of discussion.

You don't like what she says, attack what she says, don't attack her. And if you like what she says, back your argument up cogently. Don't be a dittohead.

Play nice.

2:32 PM, September 17, 2006  
Blogger Fatmouse said...

"Reproductive choice, for starters."

Ha! I knew you'd say that, as abortion's been the single rallying point for so-called feminist politics during the last 20 years. Nice weasel words, by the way. Those of us in favor of executing serial murderers don't call it "judicial choice."

Oh, and as for "starters?" More like starters and finishers. He's done nothing else, all you have is abortions. Hooray for you.

2:36 PM, September 17, 2006  
Blogger Fenrisulven said...

I'm pro-choice. My sexual appetites are so immense that I'm willing to kill for it. Sure, I know birth control is not 100% effective, but I'm willing to take the risk - I can always kill the "parasite" afterwards.

Pro-Choice: Will Kill For Sex

BTW, what did Clinton actually DO for "reproductive choice", other than talk about it? Anything?

2:40 PM, September 17, 2006  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

A psychologist referring to, "some on the left" is just scary. You know it's all a big bunch of gray. It's not black and white. But for some reason you need to label a group as "the left" and then assign common hopes, dreams, and faults to make a point.

Dealing with the criminal element must have shown you the truth about people. You appear to be an expert on classification. Frist does it via video but you do it via blog post and photograph. Genius!

2:54 PM, September 17, 2006  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Hey Graham Strouse,

Aren't you the least bit curious about how Helen's rack stacks up with Jessica's? I'm guessing that both she and Althouse are suffering an extreme case of breast envy.

Which melee weapons do you prefer?

3:01 PM, September 17, 2006  
Blogger Fenrisulven said...

I'm guessing that both she and Althouse are suffering an extreme case of breast envy.

You ripped that off from the Clinton Apologists: you guys are just jealous that Bill is gettin some

If you're going to troll, please be a bit more entertaining. And get some new material.

3:14 PM, September 17, 2006  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

God, Helen, this is just pathetic. I know you got your hackles up, and naturally defend yourself. But attempting some sort of political ju-jitsu using the definition of feminism and another woman's tits to revive 8 year old political smear is just sad.

Can't wait until you start reviving Carter jokes.

3:26 PM, September 17, 2006  
Blogger Fenrisulven said...

Okay, sidebets that "anonymous" is the same guy recycling the same talking points over and over again?

3:30 PM, September 17, 2006  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

If Dr. Helen were running a WordPress blog, we wouldn't have to guess. only works under WordPress, although the Blogger-Wordpress conversion is doable.

As the trolling gets worse, perhaps she'll make the change.

4:07 PM, September 17, 2006  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Stupid blog software can't handle a proper URL ending with a slash. Feel free to delete the last one.

If Dr. Helen were running a WordPress blog, we wouldn't have to guess. This sockpuppet identifier applet only works under WordPress, although the Blogger-Wordpress conversion is doable.

As the trolling gets worse, perhaps she'll make the change.

4:11 PM, September 17, 2006  
Anonymous Max said...

I'd advise using blogging software that tracks IP's as well (that's what the applet relies on). Judging from the types of trolls she's getting, the threats won't be far behind. Also I doubt that most of these trolls would be so brave if they were identifiable, even if only by IP.

4:33 PM, September 17, 2006  
Blogger Ed said...

to Anonymous@12:52:

The puppy-blender linked to a photo of Dr. Helen the other day -and based on that photo I'd say that you're mistaken.

5:06 PM, September 17, 2006  
Blogger John in Nashville said...

"[T]he American God," Graham? Is your deity really of such recent origin?

6:06 PM, September 17, 2006  
Blogger dick said...

Gee, do you mean if I say I support reproductive choice I can also get free bj's from my interns? Who knew?

BTW my support of reproductive choice was about as productive for reproductive as Billy Jeff's since it is not up to him at all.

7:15 PM, September 17, 2006  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Hey Ed. Can you link the actual picture of Helen's rack so I can compare it with Jessica's?

TIA

PS Helen: If you're really interested in increasing blog traffic, you know what to do. Show those puppies.

7:37 PM, September 17, 2006  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

So ed.

You're saying she *wasn't* showing off her girls in that picture?

What planet are you from?

7:57 PM, September 17, 2006  
Blogger somefeller said...

"BTW, what did Clinton actually DO for "reproductive choice", other than talk about it? Anything?"

Well Fenrisulven, he appointed two pro-choice Supreme Court Justices, for starters. He also suspended the Global Gag Rule. If you want other examples you can look them up yourself.

Also, it's amusing watching the type of people who post phrases like "Pro-Choice: Will Kill For Sex" shed crocodile tears about about objectification of women and sexual harrassment, as though they've ever done a damn thing to promote women's rights or have cared about either topic, except as the punchline to a vulgar joke.

7:58 PM, September 17, 2006  
Blogger Fenrisulven said...

it's amusing watching the type of people who post phrases like "Pro-Choice: Will Kill For Sex" shed crocodile tears about about objectification of women and sexual harrassment

What does Abortion have to do with objectification of women or sexual harrassment?

Oh I get it, its part of the please quit ridiculing my breasts strawman.

8:22 PM, September 17, 2006  
Blogger somefeller said...

Fenrisulven: if you look at your own quotes on this thread, you'll see you raised the issues of objectification ("she deliberately chose to objectivy herself as Eye Candy" and sexual harassment ("they never really adressed Clinton's sexual harassment") in your comments, so that's why I mentioned those two topics.

But perhaps I made an error in characterizing your comments as crocodile tears for such topics. Perhaps instead, you're simply the type of resentful loser who doesn't even bother with the crocodile tears, but goes straight to the vulgar joke. My mistake.

Oh, and I notice you don't even acknowledge the fact that I proved you wrong with the facts as per your comment about Clinton's lack of action on reproductive rights issues. Better luck next time.

8:32 PM, September 17, 2006  
Anonymous Exasperated said...

fenrisulven,

I guess I'm not as clever as you think because I voted for Bush and am a strong supporter of the war in Iraq. But then, Bush did more than just ridicule Saddam, didn't he?

10:52 PM, September 17, 2006  
Blogger Fenrisulven said...

somefeller if you look at your own quotes on this thread, you'll see you raised the issues of objectification ...in your comments, so that's why I mentioned those two topics.

So this means you are not going to explain what abortion has to do with objectifying women and sexual harrassment?

you're simply the type of resentful loser who doesn't even bother with the crocodile tears, but goes straight to the vulgar joke.

It was satire, not vulgar. We know the risks, we know birth control is not 100% effecitve, we know that if there is an "accident" there will be a child. But our appetite for sex is so strong that we are willing to kill the child. Perhaps thats vulgar.

Oh, and I notice you don't even acknowledge the fact that I proved you wrong with the facts as per your comment about Clinton's lack of action on reproductive rights issues.

How did you prove me wrong? I simply asked what did Clinton actually DO for "reproductive choice", other than talk about it? Anything?. You answered two SCOTUS nominees, suspended the global gag rule, and look the rest of for yourself. Kinda lame, but I gave you credit for it, hence no need to respond.

Better luck next time.

You guys have the retreat/declare victory thing down pat. Nicely done.

12:42 AM, September 18, 2006  
Blogger topsecretk9 said...

The irony is that Jessica just received the most traffic her blog will ever get - and it wasn't over some feminist issue, it was because of her hypocrisy

Get out of my head!

I think it's hilarious she couldn't help herself but comment at Althouse's blog...which Althouse is pretty generous given most lefty sites instantly delete all comments that aren't gushing love letters to the bog hosts..

4:17 AM, September 18, 2006  
Blogger J. Peden said...

Exactly what did Bill Clinton do to help the cause of Women?

Why, he supported the specific sexual harassment/abuse law which got him impeached and even planted evidence toward that effect.

He outed gender feminists as hypocritical bigots.

He lost the House to Republicans.

He signed Wellfare Reform.

He also freed women to be able to smoke cigars in pubic.

4:49 AM, September 18, 2006  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

http://www.instapundit.com/archives/013831.php

Pot, kettle, kettle, pot.

Mmmmm, boobies!

9:05 AM, September 18, 2006  
Blogger Helen said...

Anonymous 9:05:

Are you too dense to read what I said about that t-shirt picture? I do not give a damn if people want to show their boobs, model t-shirts etc. Hell, I don't care if they legalize prostitution. I object to "feminists" saying they are against sexual harassment and groping and then get on and pose with Happy Hands Clinton. It's hypocritical. In the t-shirt picture you link to, I have on a shirt for Ken Layne and the Corvins, a band that I liked and was asked to model one of their t-shirts. Wow, how hypocritical of me. Sorry if you thought you had a Dr. Laura "gotcha" moment on me but that's just not the case. Sorry to disappoint you.

10:02 AM, September 18, 2006  
Blogger Fenrisulven said...

He's not dense. His dishonesty is willfull. The nutroots have invested themselves in cozying up to party powerbrokers. Anything that maligns that effort [like pointing to the hypocrisy of a feminist Jessica] will be whitewashed distorted and spun until their conventional wisdom becomes Ann and Helen hate breasts. Because the alternative is to confess that the lefty bloggers are trading their principles in for a taste of power.

10:15 AM, September 18, 2006  
Anonymous Max said...

He's not dense. His dishonesty is willfull.

Bingo. This has been their MO from the onset. They're attempting to direct the argument through dissimulation and by incessantly repeating the same charges and misrepresentations. They know that they're lying, that's what they came here to do. You'll see the same posts nearly verbatim on any of the blogs that have covered this incident. It's the Alinsky method - if you can't gain control simply sh*t all over the place until no one wants to participate - then you've won.

Their actions may be coordinated to some extent.

11:07 AM, September 18, 2006  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

The path more easily trod is to do as feministic blogger Lindsay "Majikthise" Bayerstein does and simply claim that all Clinton's bimbo eruptions, both known and unknown, are the figments of the prurient rightwing antisex league's imagination.

Though, iirc, Lindsay says elsewhere that she lived in Germany through the early 90s and may not be up-to-speed on the topic.

or she may just not give a damn history.

11:20 AM, September 18, 2006  
Anonymous Tex Lovera said...

Once again, Dr. Helen:

Blog as YOU wish, not as others wish. They can always change the channel, so to speak.

And I do agree, the left can't help but shoot themselves in the foot. I chalk this up to their increasing cognitive disonance.

12:35 PM, September 18, 2006  
Anonymous Ralph Phelan said...

Peter Ingemi sez:

"I'm thinking that until we on the right can get over our obsessions concerning President Clinton we can't ask the left to get over their obsessions about President Bush. Lets both do our best to drop it."

But there's an important difference: while "we on the right" are enjoying ourselves with a cheap gag, "those on the left" are ranting and raving like a bunch of total lunatics.

I'm not "obsessed" with Clinton - I actually voted for him twice and still don't regret it. I just have a low sense of humor, and sometimes he's just too good a walking strait-line pass up.

Question 1)
Which group is doing more harm to its reputation and appeal among nonmembers, the snickerers or the ranters?

Question 2)
Which seems to be putting the most emotional energy into this?

Question 3)
Which side seems to be having fun?

1:17 PM, September 18, 2006  
Anonymous Auguste said...

Paraphrases...

What did Clinton do for womens' rights?

Off the top of my head, the Family and Medical Leave Act, the Patients' Bill of Rights, increased funding for Head Start, increased federal student aid, the veto of the "partial-birth" abortion ban due to no provision for the health of the mother, and his foreign policy was marked by Hillary Clinton's statement that "Women's rights are human rights." All of those things to one extent or another advance the cause of feminism. All were opposed to one extent or another by earlier Republican administrations.

You asked, I answered. Don't let's get into an argument about any of the specific policies; we already know we disagree about them.

I know, I know, call on me! How about 'choosing the lesser of two evils?'

You can say this about Bush but are incapable of fathoming it about Clinton. Now I KNOW you people are crazy.

Does anyone really think electing any of the current crop of Democrats would protect more constitutional guarantees of liberty than electing one of the Republicans running?

I know, I know! Pick me!

YES.

1:31 PM, September 18, 2006  
Anonymous Auguste said...

Also, this "who's having more fun" BS is just that: BS. It's easy to be having fun when you're the sexual harassers. It's a little harder when you're on the receiving end, or you know the person on the receiving end.

1:42 PM, September 18, 2006  
Anonymous Ralph Phelan said...

"It's easy to be having fun when you're the sexual harassers."

It's true, Bill looks quite cheerful in that picture, doesn't he?

Like I said, I like the guey,a nd I don't hold the behavior of the other people at that dinner agaist him.

2:07 PM, September 18, 2006  
Blogger Tom in LA said...

somefeller:
""BTW, what did Clinton actually DO for "reproductive choice", other than talk about it? Anything?"

Well Fenrisulven, he appointed two pro-choice Supreme Court Justices, for starters. He also suspended the Global Gag Rule."

Suspended the Global Gag Rule? I suspect he thought it had something to do with oral sex.

3:54 PM, September 18, 2006  
Blogger J. Peden said...

auguste, your list is non-specific, except for the pba veto.

We all know what a charade it is to claim women will die if they don't have pba's which necessarily kill the fetus. Pba's now take two days whereas Caesarean sections can be done in one hour. The fetus is viable at 20 weeks, or at least you don't know that it isn't. By chance, I myself observed this viability potential in 1974 when involved in a premature labor resulting in an apparent stillbirth. Then the baby started breathing. There were no extrordinary measures taken to keep this baby alive for at least 6 hours, and probably none for much longer, when some complications then developed. The baby was normal at two years, when I next and last saw him.

Women need to know that they have to make a real choice and President Clinton has not helped them in this regard.

4:57 PM, September 18, 2006  
Blogger Fenrisulven said...

Didn't Clinton also veto the partial-birth abortion ban?

7:40 PM, September 18, 2006  
Blogger Fenrisulven said...

ah hell, Aguste already answered that read the damn thread before posting Fen

7:41 PM, September 18, 2006  
Blogger Jon Swift said...

It's amazing how liberals have made fools of themselves while conservatives have maintained their dignity in writing about Jessica's breasts.

9:35 PM, September 18, 2006  
Blogger Fenrisulven said...

Poor form Jon. You really bent up alot of facts to make them fit into your conclusion.

10:33 PM, September 18, 2006  
Blogger Jon Swift said...

Which facts are those, Fenrisulven? I eagerly await your analysis since I am a bigger believer in self-improvement (although not so much a believer in facts seeing as I am not a member of the Reality-based Community).

10:45 PM, September 18, 2006  
Blogger Fenrisulven said...

and once again well-thumbed copies of The Starr Report with the best parts flagged with Post-Its were flying off bookshelves in conservative households around America.

For starters, the sexual info of the Starr report reads the same as sexual assault reports in the ER. Do you also find those titilating? You borrowed a cheap shot from Lanny Davis talking points to imply that a legal report of sexual harassment and sexual discrimination is mere porn. Very dishonest of you.

10:51 PM, September 18, 2006  
Blogger Fenrisulven said...

Conservatives were justifiably outraged when it was revealed that Clinton was only the second President in history known to have sex while in office (John Kennedy being the first) and that he got away with it

Conservatives were outraged that Clinton had sex with a subordinate employee in the Oval Office. Gennifer Flowers had already come and gone, so the sex itself was no surprise. More dishonesty from you.

10:54 PM, September 18, 2006  
Blogger Fenrisulven said...

It turns out that President Clinton was not only responsible for 9/11, he single-handedly destroyed feminism. "I really don't know why people who care about feminism don't have any edge against Clinton for the harm he did to the cause of taking sexual harrassment seriously, and posing in front of him like that irks me, as a feminist," wrote Althouse.

Your description of Althouse's quote is an exageration and doesn't even match up with the actual quote.

And I'm only on the 4th paragraph. Almost every other line is a distortion. And your summary reveals you didn't follow the discussion closely or did not understand it. Its like you got your information second-hand, from somewhere else.

But I'm not going to clog the thread by pimping your blog for you. Its a hackery and undeserving of further attention. This very comment thread refutes most the points you made. Did you read it before pimping your blog?

Here's a blogger who actually took the time to understand the issue.

http://bintalshamsa.blogspot.com/2006/09/hypocrites-abound.html

11:09 PM, September 18, 2006  
Blogger Jon Swift said...

First of all, to say that you, me or anyone is "pimping" for my blog is to imply that my blog is whore, which is deeply insulting to my blog. The passages you quote I think would come under the rubric of opinion not fact. For example, I find the Starr Report very titillating; you may prefer something with more pictures. I agree with Supreme Court Justice Potter Stewart's definition of porn: "I know it when I see it."

11:47 PM, September 18, 2006  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

When I wrote that libertarian bloggers who support Bush are supporting what they see as "the lesser of two evils", Auguste replied:

"You can say this about Bush but are incapable of fathoming it about Clinton. Now I KNOW you people are crazy."

Of course, no one is objecting to those who voted for Clinton as the lesser of two evils. The question is not whether one should vote for a sexual predator whose policies one finds less objectionable than his opponent's, but whether one should participate in photo-ops with him after he leaves office. So far as I can tell, the libertarian bloggers Auguste so despise haven't even shaken hands with Bush, much less posed with him in group photographs. Auguste's comment is therefore useless, to put it politely.

Dr. Weevil
http://www.drweevil.org

12:07 AM, September 19, 2006  
Anonymous The Fox Bill Clinton said...

Me and George love staying up late and trying to tune in scrambled porn channels after everyone else has gone to bed, when poppa Bush invites me over to Kennebunkport. Well, he mainly just rides the stationary bike, but I get a kick out of it. and then we get in our sleeping bags in the living room and sack out for a few hours till breakfast.

Honestly, if I can hang out with them, why do you have to fight so much, once you make it into the elite circles , ideology and principles are so BLAH!!! Its like wearing wranglers.

1:02 AM, September 19, 2006  
Blogger J. Peden said...

"deeply insulting to my blog."

Right.

3:54 AM, September 19, 2006  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Wow. What a pathetic pissing contest.

Rusty

7:42 AM, September 19, 2006  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

"...the libertarian bloggers Auguste so despise haven't even shaken hands with Bush, much less posed with him in group photographs."

Oh, give me a break, you're trying to tell me that instapundit, instawife, althouse and others wouldn't jump at a chance with a luncheon with Bush and would refuse to pose for a photo? Even in two years, when he's out of office?
Don't be daft.

Andrea

7:45 AM, September 19, 2006  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Personally, I would jump at the chance to have lunch with any former or sitting US President, including Clinton and Carter. I say this while dispising both men and their administrations (Carter's especially). But the truth is, They were US Presidents, and even if I don't regard their celebrity appeal as anything special, the visit would be supremely interesting.

On the other hand, I would walk away from the event remembering that it was just lunch, it wasn't a date and it wasn't a business meeting in which I fanagled some important prize. Unfortunately, these folks seem to have allowed thier own importance to be over-inflated based on the meeting.

As for the tits, I suspect Victoria's Secret helped-out just a bit. And I also suspect that if you look at other pictures this woman posed for, you'd detect similar behavior.

Rusty

10:13 AM, September 19, 2006  
Blogger J. Peden said...

I'd eat their lunch.

12:12 PM, September 19, 2006  
Blogger Graham Strouse said...

I'm losing my patience.

Helen, you have sufficient experience with practical semantics. And I know a bait and switch when I see one. Glenn's basic prose is measured and reasoned while yours is less restrained. You measure your ripostes to mollify and use a practiced voice on your podcast to lead interview subjects while emoting in a tone that suggests empathy.

Tell me, m'lady, when was the last time you looked up "liberal" in a dictionary?

I've had it with bloggers. I soaked enough of this nonsense in college, from every political angle. At least I could challenge them, then, openly, and they could respond.

We could conclude something resembling discourse, often as not.

People who throw around charged words like "liberal" and "consevative" with explicit and implicit meanings, people who conflate the warped & damaged egos of violent kids with "self-esteem" lack self-esteem themselves. It's not the same thing. Either you're PhD is a fraud and you are too dull to know the difference or you're a fraud and need to change your last name to Reifenstahl.

Your use of corrosive, out-dated, hate-making left/right labels which are no longer even remotely congruent to the real world demeans you and yours.

For God's sake, Helen, with all you have to offer, all your talent, your ability to bring together people who have nothing to do with each other but argue in virtual space, why do you do what you've been doing?

Shall we have another Night of Broken Glass?

Is that what you want?

You've got a good heart. I see it when I read between the lines. A wounded heart, but a good heart. So knock of this liberal/conservative BS, stuff. It's not relevant. Not these days.

I got the same sense reading Glenn's work. I'm tired of people treating lefty-righty bashing like a Euro-football game.

It isn't. While we dither, people die.

Remember Lee at the surrender, and after, when he stood in place for the man who had been killed on 14 April, 1865, and asked his men, his soldiers, to lay down arms, and become great citizens, as great in peace as they had been in war.

Lee's word was the word of God in the Old South. Maybe you don't quite have that kind of penetration. But that's just time and media spin. Win a few campaigns, we can work on it.

Don't fan the fire, Helen.

A woman by your name once launched a fleet of one thousand ships. Not many came back. Is that what you want?

Go back and watch "Six."

How many breaths, how many differences separate you and your sex from the girl who inspired the massacre.

What do you see, Helen? What do you see?

That's why people feared Lecter, you know. It wasn't that they feared being the main course. They feared he would expose their lies.

But we aren't all lies, are we, any of us? Not you, not me, not anyone.

To paraphrase another popular cinematic character...

I still sense the good in you.

Neither the Republicans nor the Democrats represent anything beyong their own interests at the state & national levels. Nothing. Nada.

Don't be seduced by the dark side, Helen. Or the light.

Wrong time of year.

Look around. Hear the sound. Grass is high.

It's a hazy shade of winter.

6:01 PM, September 19, 2006  
Blogger Fenrisulven said...

This comment has been removed by a blog administrator.

7:13 PM, September 19, 2006  
Blogger Fenrisulven said...

Creative Writing does have its limitations.

People who throw around charged words like "liberal" and "consevative" with explicit and implicit meanings, people who conflate the warped & damaged egos of violent kids with "self-esteem" lack self-esteem themselves.

I don't think so. I routinely use Left and Right instead, and the..er....hmmm...[a certain group you won't let me identify]... still complain about it.

I think the problem is that you don't want us to be able to distinguish between the differences. Conservative is still a neutral word to my ear. We didn't make Liberal a bad word with negative connotations. We don't intend to make Progressive a negative word either. But I get the sense that no matter how many times you try to change your spots, the negative associations will shadow you. [Hint hint]

7:17 PM, September 19, 2006  
Blogger Helen said...

Graham Strouse;

I am sorry you feel this way--I have strong opinions on certain subjects and tend to write on those as I see fit--not as others would like me to write. Although you may not agree or like these recent posts, I hope there are others that you find interesting or enjoy. If not, the blogosphere is a big place and I am sure you will find what you are looking for elsewhere.

7:54 PM, September 19, 2006  
Blogger Fenrisulven said...

I love the way he implies there will be violence in the streets if you don't change your style.

9:49 PM, September 19, 2006  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Anonymous Andrea (7:45 am) writes: "Oh, give me a break, you're trying to tell me that instapundit, instawife, althouse and others wouldn't jump at a chance with a luncheon with Bush and would refuse to pose for a photo? Even in two years, when he's out of office? Don't be daft."

Of course, that is not what I meant at all. I meant that I don't think libertarian bloggers would be lining up to do a photo-op with Bush if he were a sexual predator like Clinton. It's an a fortiori argument: libertarian bloggers don't seem to be trying very hard to meet Bush, who is not a sexual predator, and (I think) would be even less likely to want to meet a hypothetical Republican ex-president who was one.

Of course, there is a severe shortage of sexual predators among Republican ex-presidents, but they have had other embarrassments. How many bloggers would be willing to do photo-ops with to Richard Nixon if he were still alive? Very few, I suspect. Or Spiro Agnew, if he's still alive? (I don't know and don't much care.) A few years ago I passed Agnew on the street in Annapolis and he looked quite approachable. I did not approach him, because I despise him, not for his policies, with which I mostly agree, but for his lack of character. Is it really so hard to understand the point I'm making? Given a choice between Clinton and Bush I or Dole, I can see voting for Clinton, despite his obvious and severe character flaws, but I wouldn't want to meet everyone I might consider voting for, especially if I thought he was using me for his own political purposes.

Dr. Weevil
http://www.drweevil.org

9:55 PM, September 19, 2006  
Blogger topsecretk9 said...

Remember what Monica said she and the Big Dog talked about when they weren't phone sexing?

She said, you know, they talked about domestic policy and she gave him her stupid opinions on education or some such.


I see the Big Dog is up to his same tricks...what is they say about tricks and old dogs?

12:50 AM, September 20, 2006  
Blogger Helen said...

Fenrisulven:

Yes, because me and my blog wield that kind of influence. I think not. Thanks for your delightful commentary--it is nice there are others out there who stick up for free speech and do not freak out when others have a difference of opinion.

6:17 AM, September 20, 2006  
Blogger Fenrisulven said...

/breaking, feminist hypocrisy -> racial hypocrisy. Furthering the People Who Don't Really Believe In the Things They Lecture Us About meme:

FireDogLake To Black Bloggers: Mind Your Tongue When Speaking To "Your Betters"

So, Liza, dear, before you go assailing your betters and making Jane stand in for every blond white woman who ever pissed you off, maybe you should head back to eighth grade English and, you know, learn to spell and to write in a linear fashion. Although judging from your other posts that I read, mediocrity may be a chronic condition for you.

Ace of Spades: By the way... "TRex" of FDL says he didn't realize that telling a black woman to mind her tongue when "assailing [her] betters," and accusing her of having an eighth-grade education, would be misinterpreted as carrying any racist baggage.

http://ace.mu.nu/archives/197416.php

Perhaps Jane Hamsher of FDL can put her "blackface" skills to use on the luncheon photo...

7:06 PM, September 20, 2006  
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Blogger TMink said...

Hah hah! Funny link there Anon 8:04 am! I do not get the spike heels thing though. Never have, maybe it is a part of my wanna be hippie status in the 60s.

Trey

3:37 PM, September 26, 2006  
Blogger Bint Alshamsa said...

Now how did I miss this thread before? It was quite a (pleasant) surprise to see so much of my post quoted here. I wouldn't have known about it at all if it had not been for the fact that someone recently visited my site via the link on this page and it showed up on my sitemeter. I really enjoyed reading many of the comments left here. I don't consider myself a "lefty" but I don't really call myself a "conservative" either. The two terms are now used in so many ways that their use tells you almost nothing about what a person actually believes. Anyway, no matter what you call yourself (or what others call you), feel free to drop by my blog and comment on anything you see here. I enjoy hearing the views of others.

Thanks again for the mention.

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