"The guys show up for a date in a dirty t-shirt with a bag of condoms, they don't try."
A reader (thanks!) sent me this interesting video with a panel of female students from the University of Georgia talking to a reporter at MSNBC about college guys and their slacking. When the conversation turned to their personal lives, the women talked about how hard it was to find a high-level guy, how guys had the advantage and just didn't care and showed up for dates in a dirty t-shirt holding a bag of condoms while they were taking their time trying to dress up and look nice for the date.
The women were concerned that guys were let off the hook when it comes to the world of academia or work. The women were out there competing and working to "be the best," while the guys got all the women they wanted and sat back, happy to be at a community college or just working along side their dad.
What do they expect when the society has told them that women are stars and boys are duds for so long? Now, the men are "slackers" who have greater access to women. If in the past, men were using work and getting ahead to be attractive to women, it is no longer as necessary. Now that proving yourself through work is no longer as important for a man and he has access to more women, he can sit back, throw on a dirty t-shirt and grab a bag of condoms and head out for a date. Not a bad deal.
The women were concerned that guys were let off the hook when it comes to the world of academia or work. The women were out there competing and working to "be the best," while the guys got all the women they wanted and sat back, happy to be at a community college or just working along side their dad.
What do they expect when the society has told them that women are stars and boys are duds for so long? Now, the men are "slackers" who have greater access to women. If in the past, men were using work and getting ahead to be attractive to women, it is no longer as necessary. Now that proving yourself through work is no longer as important for a man and he has access to more women, he can sit back, throw on a dirty t-shirt and grab a bag of condoms and head out for a date. Not a bad deal.
posted by Helen at 5:33 AM
81 Comments:
I've no doubt there are some serious losers out there, but I'm a tad tired of hearing women gripe about slacker guys. Interview some young men and listen to them talk about women who are skanks, gold-diggers or worse. No? That's because media is geared to a female audience. The solipsism in American broadcasting is unbelievable.
And if loser, slacker guys with dirty T-shirts and a lunchbag of condoms are actually getting laid out there, the blame is 50% hers for permitting it. When women refuse to lay dirtbags, the dirtbags will clean up their act. Women set the bar and men jump over it or else it's a life of porn.
There has got to be more important things for media to report than a pack of whiny girls who can't get a decent boyfriend!
Am I wrong in assuming that at some point prior to the 'date' these women had a conversation where this 'date' was discussed? That these women in fact agreed to go on a 'date' with the guy? I doubt that the guys just showed up banging on their doors, condoms in hand. (though it's been a long while since I dated, maybe things have changed) Why do the women make it sound as if they had no part in arranging these liasons?
This ties in well with your previous post. Until these women come to the realization that the choices they are making determine the kind of guy they are attracting, nothing is going to change for them.
"Why do the women make it sound as if they had no part in arranging these liasons?"
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As a side note, that is a pretty common theme with regard to women: Men have 100% free will, so they are fully responsible for everything they do; women are more like will-less, soul-less robots who only react to their environment and are not responsible for anything they do.
The University of Georgia is 58% male and has lower admission standards than Georgia Tech that is 68% male. I wonder why the media does not go to Georgia Tech and her the horror stories of the male students.
If in the past, men were using work and getting ahead to be attractive to women, it is no longer as necessary.
You're close, Helen, but you need to take it a step further. Being a go-getter puts you in the category of being a geek to women -- and makes you unattractive. Women themselves are scurrying around busy -- they no longer like to see that in a man.
There's a whole 'nother thing going on sociologically. For whatever reason, women seem to resent or be competitive with men and take to slackers. My guess: education has become so closely identified with female culture, that women see educated men as less masculine, and men have unconsciously noticed this and stepped away from that culture.
As a side note, that is a pretty common theme with regard to women: Men have 100% free will, so they are fully responsible for everything they do; women are more like will-less, soul-less robots who only react to their environment and are not responsible for anything they do.
That's only true for the bad things. When men behave "well", it's because they're under the influence of a "good woman". When women behave well, it's because women are inherently more caring and nurturing, something about caring for children. In economics, there is this concept of "perverse incentives". It sounds as if these women need to learn about it. Mostly what women need is a sense of irony and a lot less self-esteem.
As for the University of Georgia, a quick Bing search gives a 2009 figure of 62% FEMALE and 38% MALE.
Being a go-getter puts you in the category of being a geek to women
But chicks really dig geeks! That's why I became a software developer. Hot chicks just beg me to, for example, explain the difference between passing an argument by reference and passing it by value.
If the University of Georgia is now 62/38 female, then that explains it right there. When the sex ratio gets that lopsided, guys are in control of the SMP, and they don't have to "try" much. That doesn't mean that all 38% of the men are getting laid -- not at all. What id *does* mean, is that the hypergamously attractive portion of that -- let's be generous and say it's half - has a stranglehold on the sex market: 19% of the population is "dateable" guys, and 62% of the population is female. That leads to the guys getting what they want under penalty of ignoring the girls who do not want to play by the guys' rules.
It's true that women can "just say no" under these circumstances, but when the sex ratio is that lopsided, just saying no often means being shut out of the market for attractive guys, period -- a step price to pay for a woman at the prime of her attractiveness. So I think the behaviors all around are quite understandable, really.
Of course, it's ridiculous that as a society we think it's just fine for a major public university like UGA to be 62/38, and that's where the blame for this situation really lies -- a feminist-driven education culture that doesn't care about male success. It's ending up eating the young women socially, but that's a small price to pay when the goal is "for the women to clock the guys".
Oh lord, no he can't (sit back, throw on shirt, etc) - not unless any given young woman thinks that's enough.
College boys, at that age, are wasted time really, something to fill the breach until real life starts. I don't begrudge any woman her appetites or even the young men who, by appearances, are more interested in using and disposing. But there is something to be said for sublimation, and patience, and selectivity.
One more point, directed at Dr. Helen and not so much the article. "What do you expect when society has told" etc seems freighted with blame and disgust of the girls. As if they own society and all its ills and should dim their own lights or something.
It bothers me, I associate that talk with the "soft bigotry of low expectations" you here from persons apologizing for the lack of work or study ethic of, say, black schoolchildren or adolescents or adults because the culture they move in doesn't ascribe value to those things.
Aren't there any core virtues a person should strive for without reference to another person? As in, other persons should be shown respect of effort.
Other persons should be treated as one would want one's self to be treated - not as a thing, an object, but as someone who matters as much in the mighty scheme as oneself?
I apologize for typos in above.
SarahW,
"Aren't there any core virtues a person should strive for without reference to another person?"
Yes, which is why I often wonder why women constantly look at men only in terms of what they bring to women, and not as autonomous beings.
Ern said...
Hot chicks just beg me to, for example, explain the difference between passing an argument by reference and passing it by value.
In bed?
I agree with Der Hahn that this ties in very well with the earlier post. When the women sleep with the scumbags and friend-zone the "decent" men, why would they expect a different outcome? If being the clean-cut, supportive, "good" guy isn't going to get you laid (or respected, or seen as a viable romantic partner), then why bother?
I wait with baited breath for MSNBC or any other outlet of the lace-curain media to stick a mic in front of those UGA or even GT guys who are similarly dissatisfied with the singles scene/dating market.
Not the fraction of guys who are banging all that free quim, if you'll pardon the vulgarity, but those beta providers in training who "get no play" or who are repeatedly LJBFd in favor of jerks, cads, rakes, and playas.
Encourage some candor from these erstwhile nice guys and see what results.
Several decades of belittling men and creating a hostile environment for them in college has driven them away. Now the girls are at a numerical disadvantage in the dating world.
We were told by one of the coaches where my son accepted a football scholarship that the girls out number the boys 3 to 1. Youser!! As a decent looking, intellignet, atheletic guy, he'll be doing quite well I imagine.
...seems freighted with blame and disgust of the girls.
No, not really. Although some of them have bought into the male bashing of the feminists, the girls can thank their mothers and that generation for thier woes more than anyone. It's an outcome of the legally endorsed bigotry to the liberals.
BTW - I tell my son to always wear a clean t-shirt.
BTW - I tell my son to always wear a clean t-shirt.
A three wolf moon t-shirt? I hear it drives the women wild with desire...
Aren't there any core virtues a person should strive for without reference to another person?
Probably not. Like it or not, H. sapiens is THE most social species among primates. In addition, humans are one of the few mammalian with long term pair bonding and our "excessive" cognitive abilities, particularly theory of mind, may have evolved expressly to manipulate other people and to counter manipulation by others.
One wonders how many women entering University of Georgia realize they are going to a de facto women's college?
What id *does* mean, is that the hypergamously attractive portion of that -- let's be generous and say it's half
That's overly generous, I'd say. I don't think it would be more than 20% of the male population at large.
I'm willing to bet these girls have no knowledge of physics or engineering whatsoever. That in itself makes their views distorted.
SarahW - Oh lord, no he can't (sit back, throw on shirt, etc) - not unless any given young woman thinks that's enough.
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I'd say the comments from the women speak for themselves. At some point in the relationship with dirty-t-shirt-n-condom guy they pretty obviously thought he was good enough, since they agreed to at lease one date.
Nathen wrote: 'I'm willing to bet these girls have no knowledge of physics or engineering whatsoever. That in itself makes their views distorted.'
I agree. But without a knowledge of social skills, interpersonal interactions, and psychology, even the engineers have distorted world views.
Trey
"But without a knowledge of social skills, interpersonal interactions, and psychology, even the engineers have distorted world views."
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I realize the purpose of this is to equate those subjects with the more difficult scientific subjects, and thus save the egos of the people taking the easier subjects, but people taking psychology etc. aren't always great at social skills and interpersonal interactions themselves.
Look around. Lots of the people who claim to have deep knowledge of social skills - like how to remain married - are divorced.
The most glaring example I ever saw was a psychologist down the hall from us in a professional building. I saw him absolutely explode in a childlike tantrum - and the issue was HIS fault - and I later saw that one of his specialties was "anger management courses".
In other words: Let's keep it real here.
And conversely, I've seen people in engineering or hard sciences who are easy to get along with, and I've seen it to a degree that makes TMink's attempted contrast a bit silly.
JG, you missed the point.
Knowledge of social skills and basic psychology help people live satisfying lives just as a basic knowledge of engineering and physics does.
Without adequate social skills and understanding of interpersonal relationships people are socially innefective and lonely.
Sometimes your resentment clouds your posts. Case in point.
Trey
As a Georgia Tech grad, happily married to same, I have it on very good authority that the saying among Tech's coeds is "the odds are good, but the goods are odd."
Can't win for losing. ;)
SarahW, I think you misunderstand the meaning of "soft bigotry of low expections".
Low expectations are created by the people setting the standards. In your example, that would be the overwhelming white liberal education establishment that perpetuates a two-track system by artificially enhancing the academic acheivements of minority students while giving lip service to the need for all students to conform to a standard of excellence. Such a system penalizes the minority student who actually peforms excellent work by debasing the value of the standard.
These men are performing to the real (low) expectations that actually drive how these women select partners (as I pointed out above, their behavior is being rewarded by getting dates) as opposed to the supposedly high standards that the women are paying lip service to.
as the father of a 20 year old step-daughter, i can say without reservation that she has no idea consciously about which of the boys is best for her, and is constantly making poor choices in that regard.
she still wants the football player who`s father is a rich dentist, even though the boy makes no secret of the fact that he has slept with several of her friends.
she cries herself to sleep over facebook posts about his escapades with other girls, even though she has a "steady" new boyfriend.
(sigh)
i personally think she should take the offer of marriage from the closet homosexual who`s parents have been trying to deny his sexuality as much as he has by taking her along on family trips to appear as his girlfriend for the last few years.
the marriage might not last long but she will be well set for life afterwards.
i realise that sounds awfully cynical, but she hasn`t got much going for her otherwise other than factory work or retail.
Dr. Alistair: Be supremely grateful for Facebook. Back in my day the male whores would have sex at every opportunity and then swear on a stack of bibles they were chaste and pure as the driven snow. There was no way to prove or disprove what they said. Now young women have access to crystal clear digital pictures that are worth much more than 1000 words. I say have a long talk with this young lady about the value of a college education, even it is at a community college and encourage her to enroll. Perhaps one easy evening class for the first semester might get her gently nudged in the right direction.
As a UGA alum who lives in Athens, I can assure you that there is a female equivalent to the kind of guy they're describing.
As a 58-year-old man who was married for 30 years and divorced my ex 6 years ago my take is similar to that of other men. Some observations.
1. Women within my lifespan weren't happy in the dark days of the 1950s, 60s, 70s, 80s, 90s... and here we are. It's always the fault of men and they will weepily tell you that, "he used me and cheated on me" ("gosh, over and over and over, you have such bad luck with scumbags. I can't for the life of me figure out why you're so unlucky."). I've known since I was about five years old and listening to my mom that there's never been a strong line between what woman say and what they do. And there's never a woman so unhappy as the one who gets what they say they wanted. An unhappy woman is like granite, only they don't live long enough to changed much by time. Always look to her habits lads, not the ones she says she has, but the ones she actually has. When a woman starts talking about what she wants or expects it should be like bees buzzing so as not to confuse you. There world is not bad, just different.
2. Men have it easier than ever. There's simply no need to work too hard for a woman. In fact it works against you if you do try hard. I would guess that close to 70 percent of the woman I meet are so self loathing as to find any man who would court them, honor them and cherish them as an unworthy tool, as in, "If you think I'm special you're cute, but obviously an idiot". Men who treat them with respect will be treated like a favorite poodle, while guys in dirty tee shirts and a bag full of condoms who do not treat them well will enjoy the more carnal pleasures. It's a simple matter of tee-shirt boy is the one who really understands them and that's what you lads need to understand. It's not bad or good, just the way it is.
Never forget the serious disconnect between what woman say and what they do, especially if you like her. In fact if a woman tells me she likes candle lit dinners and long witty conversations I immediately assume she prefers her sex in the car on the way home from work so she can get their in time to watch Grey's Anatomy and talk to her sister on the phone. Embrace the contradiction.
The other 30 percent I know are married and not in my sample. But if I had to guess about them we'd have to back to point one.
i have sat with my wife while she creeps her daughter (only once) and was not surprised to see the topless beer pong games and teeny bikini contests that these "innocent" girls get up to to compete for the boys attention.
her mother says, "at least she`s on the pill".
if i was to have a word with ehr she`d walk away and laugh.
she says charlie sheen is her new best hero.
cham, your niavete is staggering.
and cham, you make it as if these girls are passive, bomeless victims with no willpower to resist the evil rapist boys, when in actual fact they compete for all they get, and heartily enjoy it...unles it`s advantagous to decide they were raped.
happy international women`s day, where hostile women have been fighting to give you the right to be an absolutely self-indulgent prostitute for a 100 years now....
Dr Alistair: I think many young people are awash in big ideas and very short on life experiences. They all get what is coming to them, and some of them have to pay a big price. I wouldn't give up on this young lady quite yet. You might be the only person in her life willing to put a foot down and give her some direction.
Ern said...
Hot chicks just beg me to, for example, explain the difference between passing an argument by reference and passing it by value.
In bed?
Well, in bed it's more likely to be the difference between the Do While and Do Until constructs. The options for passing arguments get discussed before that.
They were lied to. They were too young to know it was happening at the time, and they weren't protected by parents who should have told them the truth.
Now they're finding out and they resent it. Life's tough. It's likely to be tougher until they get over stupid.
As in, other persons should be shown respect of effort.
Why is respect somehow or another someone's due? Isn't respect something that is supposed to be earned?
I'm always fascinated by any change in trends. There seems to be a change in the posts over the last few weeks from 'women need to behave better' to 'women need to give the beta-males a chance'. Interesting.
...the difference between passing an argument by reference and passing it by value...
You mean not everyone understands this? No wonder I'm not a "social success" at the cocktail parties I don't attend.
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Knowledge of social skills and basic psychology help people live satisfying lives just as a basic knowledge of engineering and physics does.
Without adequate social skills and understanding of interpersonal relationships people are socially innefective and lonely.
Thereby defining what you (maybe) know how to do well as "the norm". Did it occur to you that engineers who can do crazy hard stuff that baffles the rest of the population don't want to waste the skills they've acquired spending an hour making small talk about your dog's trip to the vet but would rather spend time being productive? Like keeping the lights on or inventing the next computer? Or is that not considered a "satisfying life".
Ern - LOL!
cham, she does listen....though the distance betwen her ears and her brain is about 10 years or more!
and regarding women giving the beta males a chance, that`s never going to happen. women don`t find star trek box sets and darth vader models hot.
a guy has to have the body language and the attitude to not give a rat`s ass what a woman thinks about most things, otherwise he`s seen as begging when he wants what he wants.
occasionally i have to PUA my wife to switch her on, otherwise we are just sharing space.
we get caught up in work, chores, kids, fatigue and so on, so that there has to be some pattern interrupt out of the inertia, so i run negs and ross jeffries stuff on her now and then, and she really appreciates the attention.
Loco, I prefer to let individuals define for themselves what a satisfying life is. Having said that, it is overwhelmingly normative for people to want friends and romantic partners. For those people, a knowledge of engineering and physics is best paired with a decent working knowledge of social skills and basic psychology. It also helps to have a basic knowledge of psychology if you watch tv or vote. It helps people to not be so easily manipulated.
I thought that would be easy to comprehend just on the face of it by most people.
I was not thinking about me or my field. My field is largely a pseudoscience that has become dominated by extremists in my opinion. I find nothing laudable in psychology as it is largely practiced.
So it is not about me.
What part of it is about you?
Trey
Dr. Alistair, I think we need a definition of Pick-up Artist. I suggest that men that aren't getting what they want from the dating arena make some alterations to their looks and behavior, and JG thinks that I am being a PUA for this. As we all know: Insanity is repetition expecting different results. One would think the easiest solution is to make a few changes within themselves to change results. But what we have here is a group that doesn't feel the need for them to change because that would mean they would be a PUA. A more logical solution for them is to get all women to provide sex for beta males. And much like you, I don't see that happening.
I don't really get this whole hatred of pick-up artists, as the posters are calling some men. A man who figures out how to entice women into conversation and a romantic relationship, temporary or otherwise, will have more access to more women. Investing in some nice clothes and learning how to approach people will serve you well in whatever you do. Darth Vader and Star Trek have some interest to some people, but reading a newspaper every once in a while may open up more topics of conversation. Why is the idea of personal change so abhorant?
TMink -> Here's a basic question. Does solitude trouble you? Does it make you uncomfortable?
"... it is overwhelmingly normative ..."
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What does that mean, TMink?
I think it's pretty much the opposite of your first sentence about "letting" individuals define their own ideas of what a satisfying life is (how tolerant of you to "let" them!).
Your hidden / unconscious / unexamined / condescending / somewhat smug assumptions in many of your statements are irritating.
Appointing yourself the sole arbiter of what is "normal" gets real old real fast.
Personally, I like unusual, creative, intelligent people. Many like solitude, many don't like to spend hours blabbering with people about nothing and many are very interesting.
That's as opposed to "normal" people who spend lots of time smirking at anything out of the ordinary, who have very tight tolerances as to what the consider "normal" (for whatever reason) and who are not very interesting at all. Top that with a smug, condescending attitude, and you've got a real peach.
"My field is largely a pseudoscience that has become dominated by extremists in my opinion."
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Right. I agree with you there.
That's as opposed to "normal" people who spend lots of time smirking at anything out of the ordinary, who have very tight tolerances as to what the consider "normal" (for whatever reason) and who are not very interesting at all.
You seem to have a tight tolerance of what being "normal" is, although you do put it in quotes. I've found a lot of supposedly unusual, creative, intelligent people to be complete boors, especially if they are in the fine arts world. Engineers and scientists I tend to like and see lots of creativity and intelligence in what they do.
As for unusual, I see two kinds of unusual. First, those who are trying to be unusual and value being unusual for the sake of being unusual. For the most part, I find those people irritating and boring. Others are unusual because they have a rare talent or quality, greater intelligence, unique perspectives or such. I like these kinds of people because they broaden my perspective and add something to my life.
First, those who are trying to be unusual and value being unusual for the sake of being unusual.
= poseurs
I agree. It seems these are the kinds of people who often dominate social settings.
JG, your projection is a credit to the defense mechanism.
As an introvert, I require solitude. I love it. I get some every day. So yes, I enjoy solitude and I enjoy being in relationships.
Overwhelmingly normative for me means it occurs in over 80% of a population. Normative would be about 55% to 60% from a strict statistical viewpoint I would guess. You can think of it as "average." Some swallows cannot fly, but it is overwhlemingly normative for them to.
I would estimate that over 90% of people desire to be in relationships with others. We can use the epidmeology of schizotypal personality disorder to estimate it. That personality disorder, which I do not think is worth the name because I value people's right to chose for themselves, is around 3%. So about 3% of humans are diagnosed as not interested in other people. While autistic folks are not so interested in relationships, the people I am familiar with usually want one or two relationships, so I am not sure if including them would add to the discussion. I will stick with my 90% estimate for now. Do you disagree?
"Personally, I like unusual, creative, intelligent people. Many like solitude, many don't like to spend hours blabbering with people about nothing and many are very interesting."
Another thing we agree about.
Letting people define their own lifestyle is a crucial issue in my line of work. The field is full of people who act out their own values on the people that come to see them and injure them in the process. I eschew that. Given the other things you have written, you would appreciate and agree that I would think. But respecting people's opinion cannot impinge on facts and the real world. And the vast majority of humans are social. That just is.
It seems that it is quite difficult for you to read anything I write without seeing red. Even when we agree. This makes having a conversation with you most difficult. Well, that and the hunch I have if I met you and you did not know who I was we would have a beer and some laughs.
I stopped reading Mary's posts because I had come to believe they were worthless. I do not hold that opinion concerning many of your posts, so I read what you write. Honestly, I read one of Mary's posts by accident and had to respond because it was thoughtful and raised some interesting points. So now I read her posts.
I agree that appointing myself as the sole arbiter of what is normal in a condescending manner would get old quickly.
That is why I never do that.
Some other people post that way though. They get completely angry and lose control if anyone disagrees with them about a jot or tittle to the point that the post several times in a row and stop making sense and have a difficult time understanding posts that everyone else gets. They call the other person names, insult them, and generally try to shame them into shutting up. Some people do shut up, some of us do not.
Have you ever considered just not reading my posts?
Trey
"First, those who are trying to be unusual and value being unusual for the sake of being unusual. For the most part, I find those people irritating and boring."
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I agree with that. But that involves "affectations" more than it does a core of intelligence or creativity.
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Could be the men at that school are not representative of the men at many other schools.
could be that condoms don't get served up in "bags" that they guys show up with.
could be the girls are not worth much more than what they get because they seem to invite these guys over
could be lots of things. could be
LocomotiveBreath and dunkelzahn4prez -
I should clarify that those seductive conversations occur only after the lady has confirmed that I am the one who owns "that dreamy 1998 Corolla" (it's a true chick-magnet).
cham, PUA is a series of tools that can be used in a variety of ways, from the sublime to the ridiculous to the criminal.
much as it would be foolish to sit an engineering exam without studying, it would be foolish for the average guy to attempt to chat up a pretty girl without studying.....
that said, there are some terribly fragile egos out there who think that women should change for them and go for the nfl t-shirt and the sweatpants.
no, actually i think they`d rather sit home and watch porn and not think about it any more.
and actually the PUA is a lot of work for little return mostly, but i`m married, so i don`t have to do most of the PUA repotoire on an evening, unless i want to make my wife laugh.
but i will say that PUA does work if you are willing to put in the time, but the class of women you are lining up will still be representitive of your own values...so if you have a low estimate of women, guess what you will get?
and tmink? careful you aren`t casting pearls...
I agree that appointing myself as the sole arbiter of what is normal in a condescending manner would get old quickly.
That's why I joined a group of arbiters of what is normal. It's much more fun.
As for the solitude, I don't mind it, but being alone for a long time is hell.
If you think the 20-40 set of females is desperate, wait until you get into the 45-plus demographic. Desperation exudes from them like the stink off a dead whale. At that point it becomes purely pathetic and sad. They're still parasites looking for hosts, but most can't get over on being hot (or marginally attractive) anymore.
A week ago I met a woman of about 40 who lives in Manhattan. She said, "The worst thing you'll ever find is a woman age 35 or over who lives in New York." She winds up being surrogate therapist for her friends and the stories are astonishing. They bought the big lie (granted they had a lot of help and encouragement) and now they're freaking out. And many of them very inappropriately (and humorously) so.
A friend (aged 71 at the time) told me some years ago that the best work he did in his life was after his libido went away. I'm very much looking forward to when that happens for me and it will no longer be necessary to deal with this nonsense.
A woman under a certain age may get a lot of attention due to her sex appeal. Heck, even those without much "sex appeal" can still get what they want with an appeal to sex.
For a while they can lead the guys around like that and get lots of otherwise undeserved attention. They forget they have a "sell by" date. So they hit that date and realize they have failed to develop anything else to offer.
Then they whine they've become "invisible".
I was just thinking that if the guy shows up with a bag of condoms, it shows confidence (well, presumption, too). And don't women want a confident man?
No, I'm not serious.
it shows confidence
And probable stamina.
First of all, I can sort of see some guy showing up on a date wearing a dirty teeshirt. But would a guy really show up with a bag of condoms? I sort of envision some lunk having a conversation with a much smarter roommate, and the roommate advising the lunk to be proactive and practice safe sex if a date led to sex. The lunk might have taken that advice to the extreme and bought some new condoms on the way to pick the date up, not understanding they need to be discreetly tucked in the wallet. This could be a severe case of some very bad etiquette but not necessarily chutzpah.
Greetings
I was the guy that sent the link in, thought it fit in nicely with the "Manning UP" book thats been out and talked about in the last week. Dr. Helen is due to interview the Author.
I almost clicked away from this video and then at the end I did a double take, I was surprised the reporter did not ask a follow up question on this bit of garbage abotut eh condoms. I beleive her that the guys shows up with condoms, but what I still don't beleive is that she/they would go out with him.
I think the line of thinking that makes this tacked on comment contrary to what they were talking about is the possibility that in the past men really had to achieve to be considered to have value and to have the opportunity to find a decent girl and pair up. Now that is not the case.
From my own college days about 20 years ago till now I am still shocked when I spy into the reality of what is going on. Girls will give it up easilly to a certain type of guy, alpha, jerk, what have you. I know the world is a mix of things but Ive seen alot of contradiction in what is said and what is done. The ladies are looking for the alpha guy in their 20s. In there 30s they'll start to pay attention to the beta guys.
Ive opted out of the dating pool for the time being for a number of reasons. I assure you when I start up again I will not be doing flowers, or dance lessons, or dinner dates befor sex. I have a plan to invite my future dates over to my place, watch football (I hate football btw) and order her to get me a beer. The last girl I was courting came over to my place after an idyllic afternoon of cool things I had planned, was in my lap getting comfortable, asked me what kind of guy I was, I explaned I was not a club going player but more of the romantic type. She promptly got up and left.
I could be married if I really wanted to be, there are a ton of 30 year old women desperate for a guy with a job that is marraige material. But I refuse too. Im looking for a genuine mutual connection, not a second job. Alot of the eager to get married types 10 or 20 years ago would directly laugh at my geeky advances and shoo me away.
I have a mortgage, I have a stressful job, the corporate world offers limited job security at best, I work long hours, I have school loans, I have been on my own for 17 years . . . . . and I play video games . . . its one of the few activities that can push the average guys success button.
Again it takes 2 to tango... Where do you think "Mr condoms" got the idea that was acceptable?
Hint: Its worked before....
I was rather useless in my younger days, a couple of health problems, and serious shyness saw me get bugger all.
In my 20's I did what i was supposed to do, job, house, bulked up (I was shearing, so in peak physical condition) and went out to the local nightspots.
Not so much as a nibble, yet my chronicaly unemployed, slacker/bludger mates were rolling in poon.
I dont care nowdays, I have a lady who is still in training. (if you nag Ill walk away etc). But when i think of the wasted years of "doing the right thing" Im bloody bitter at females in general.
You are the ones breaking the compact about the genders. You lay irresponsible shallow blokes, then feel desperate around 30 that you "cant meet a nice bloke".
An extremely attractive girl I knew allowed herself to be seduced by a friend of a friend, a known druggie scumbag with an ego all out of proportion to his lifes achievements.
She allowed herself to use drugs with him, allowed herself to be prostituted by him to keep them in drugs, then allowed herself to be traded to a drug dealer to "work" for him to clear his drug debts.
I was silly enough to give her sympathy when she straightened out and wanted a shoulder to cry on..
With the benefit of hindsight my best response should have been "well you were just a stupid slut for choosing him anyway"
tobound said: Im looking for a genuine mutual connection, not a second job.
Nail. Head. Hammer. And ditto on the video games. There's instant, positive feedback for success, and no denigrating rants if you mess up.
mole said: But when i think of the wasted years of "doing the right thing" Im bloody bitter at females in general.
You are the ones breaking the compact about the genders. You lay irresponsible shallow blokes, then feel desperate around 30 that you "cant meet a nice bloke".
Too right, mate. Women control the reward and reinforcement environment in that area, but then complain when they keep seeing the behaviors they've spent all those years rewarding and reinforcing. It's no wonder a lot of men are opting out of the game entirely.
and yesterday was international women`s day...and what has a hundred years of griping and complaining and getting angry got them?
I think it was international some women's day. Women like Sara Palin, Condeliza Rice and Michelles Bachman were NOT celebrated.
Trey
Are you sure it wasn't "International Wymyns' Day"? That could explain a few things...
If a woman accepts a date with a guy who shows up as described, she is responsible for her poor judgement.
I'd rather be married to any of the above in comparison to Hilary or Michelle.
Tmink, given that out-of-the-blue segue, tell us what it feels like to have Sarah Palin set up shop in your head and live rent free?
international some women`s day then.
it`s the some women who are taking back the night and buying the marriage magazines and re-modelling the house every 18 months and griping to their friends that we don`t do anything and aren`t brad pitt and don`t take them on trips and dinner and buy them shoes...just because.
it`s those women`s day.
and it was yesterday.
the 100th one.
wow.
i ned to lie down.
Hey Doc,
Haven't been around for a while, but God I wish this was true. Just spent the last year and a half at Fordham University. I'll tell you one thing; behavior here like that of the UT guy you talk about would get me slapped and thrown out on my face.
College is no longer a boys club. College is now an entirely equal playing field. Women do work harder, I would argue. But men are and certainly will pay the consequences. I also have noticed a hard-working a responsible guy becomes more attractive to upperclassmen, whereas in earlier years it tends not to matter as much. Scary thought, really, that 21 and 22 year old girls are looking to the future so blatantly, but I suppose that is what matters.
Hope all is well, and give Glenn my best.
Loco, it is absolutely wonderful.
Trey
But she pays rent.
Trey
Well, rent in kind.
Trey
I live in the southeast, where everyone is old and widowed. But a middle-aged single female friend in eastern Connecticut tells me how difficult it is to find a non-jaded, non-pissed-off single man in her area, because all of the women are gold diggers. If you don't make $200,000+ a year or drive a German car, women won't talk to you, as a man. In that environment, I wouldn't bother even trying to date. Celibacy is easier and certainly cheaper than dealing with shallow women. Women have created this mess for themselves (not being able to find "good" men); I doubt they will be able to whine their way out of it.
I insist on seeing a receipt to verify your claim.
Um, gotta get back to you on that!
Trey
Haven't been around for a while, but God I wish this was true. Just spent the last year and a half at Fordham University. I'll tell you one thing; behavior here like that of the UT guy you talk about would get me slapped and thrown out on my face.-conway.will
Sorry to break the news to you, Will. It's true, just not true for you.
I also have noticed a hard-working a responsible guy becomes more attractive to upperclassmen, whereas in earlier years it tends not to matter as much.
Let's face it, most girls at a private college or university are really there for what a finishing school used to provide. They're not expecting to apply any degree they're granted to a 30- to 35-year working grind.
I have a 20 year old daughter who seems to be figuring it out and now has announced she is going to major in Accounting. I hope she sticks with it.
I have watched the anthropology of male-female relations from the vantage point of a 73 year old father of a 20 year old. It's kind of depressing but I haven't given up.
I'm also reading Calvin Coolidge's autobiography, published 1929, to see what we have lost. I think most of the loss is since 1956, when I started college, as his description is not that different from what I remember. Still, I feel sorry for these kids.
God, what they have missed !
First of all, I can sort of see some guy showing up on a date wearing a dirty teeshirt. But would a guy really show up with a bag of condoms?
I'd figure that the blonde is exaggerating for dramatic effect. Still, I might believe her story just because she herself looks like she just crawled out of bed, picked something off the floor and threw it on. Certain kinds of people have a way of finding each other, IYKWIM.
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