Thursday, December 27, 2007

Jonah Goldberg on Liberal Fascism

goldbergcov.jpgToday, we interview Jonah Goldberg on his controversial new book, Liberal Fascism: The Secret History of the American Left, From Mussolini to the Politics of Meaning. He talks about how people throw the word fascism around without really understanding its meaning, why so many liberals want to turn America into a college campus with free food, shelter and recreation, and why the upcoming election is about collective vs. individual rights.

You can listen to the show directly -- no downloads needed -- by going right here and clicking on the gray Flash player. You can download the whole file and listen at your leisure by clicking right here, and you can get a lo-fi version suitable for dialup by going here and selecting "lo fi." And, of course, you can always get a free subscription from iTunes if you like -- and why wouldn't you? Show archives are at GlennandHelenShow.com.

This podcast was brought to you by Volvo Automobiles. Music is "Nobody's Full" by Todd Steed and the Suns of Phere.

Labels: ,

100 Comments:

Blogger Sid said...

I look forward to reading the book. I have always found JG to be thoughtful and disciplined in his work.

I recently abandoned a doctoral program ABD. The part that I look back on was how much bending I had to do just to have interaction with most of the faculty and the undergraduates. Yes, there were some faculty who held to the classic definition of liberal. They hosted free debate without so mcuh as a raised eyebrow. But the dominate, oppressive mindset was a very caustic mix of anti-Bush, anti-establishment, and censored speech for those who disagree.

I wonder what event will cause a balance to be attained in higher education and in larger society.

9:49 AM, December 27, 2007  
Blogger Eric said...

Great work! I can't wait to read the book (and I'm already feeling less guilty about my Godwin's Law violations....)

Might the Bush=Hitler comparisons actually be a form of projection?

10:05 AM, December 27, 2007  
Blogger Mary said...

Other than his mother Lucianne, can you tell us what qualifies this young man to call himself an expert, much less write a book?

Didn't he get he go to that girls' school Goucher College? Is that where he gets his expertise on college campuses?

If not for the Lewinsky Clinton scandal and his mother advising Linda Tripp, wouldn't he be cooking up Pop Tarts right now?

10:28 AM, December 27, 2007  
Blogger ProtestShooter said...

Thanks, Helen, should be an interesting listen!

12:53 PM, December 27, 2007  
Blogger dadvocate said...

Since I had labeled on of my philosophy professors a "liberal fascist" back in the 70s, the title intrigued me enough that I listened to an entire podcast for the first time. I'm glad I did.

The historical background of fascism is important to know. I like Golberg's question he asks leftist college students, besides killing millions of people, what don't you like about Nazism?

I'm very much an individual rights supporter and believe in "rugged individualism." Government is needed to a degree but we don't need Hillary's village to raise our kids, etc. I'm glad people like Jonah Goldberg are writing books.

3:28 PM, December 27, 2007  
Blogger dadvocate said...

BTW - I knew Todd Steed a little when he was a kid. He was a friend of my first wife's brothers. It's neat that he's become an accomplished musician.

3:30 PM, December 27, 2007  
Blogger Helen said...

dadvocate,

So glad you decided to listen to your first podcast--I think this was a good one, especially if you are a rugged individualist--I count myself in that group except I'm not very rugged--wish I was.

I can't believe you knew Todd Steed-he's a great guy and a very good musician.

3:45 PM, December 27, 2007  
Blogger Mary said...

It's cute how all you (rugged or non-) individualists don't credit your family connections for your notoriety and "success".

He, his Mom.
You, your hubby.

3:52 PM, December 27, 2007  
Blogger Mary said...

I really do wonder why Goldberg didn't go to a better, more competitive undergrad.

3:53 PM, December 27, 2007  
Blogger Eric Blair said...

Dr. Helen:

Please forgive me for genially reminding a troll to quit being a troll. Normally, feeding a troll is a bad business, but this Mary person is not an terrible person, and this trollishness is unlike her.

Mary, I have a friend (a nice leftist progressive) who attended Goucher College at the same time as Mr. Goldberg.

My friend really dislikes Mr. Goldberg, by the way. Even though I don't believe you share my friend's politics, you certainly are just as judgmental and nasty about Goldber as my friend. He, at least, had met Goldberg and interacted with him in person for several years.

Goucher has been coed for 21 years. You could have looked that up, but I suspect it is more fun to play the "girls' school" insult game for you. Cheap shot, though.

My friend who went to that "worse, less competitive" school that you were so judgmental of was recently awarded tenure at Caltech in the sciences.

Oh, and among small liberal arts schools, Goucher ranks in the top 100, nation wide.

I have several colleagues who teach at Goucher College. They work hard to do the best job they can, with genuinely good students.

You are acting like a nasty trollish snob, and I don't know why. I went to your blog, and as I scanned over your entries, you were measured and moderate in your statements. I was particularly moved by your comments regarding the barbaric assassination of Bhutto.

So why be rude to Goldberg, or Dr. Helen for that matter? You don't know them.

It's what trolls do. You don't have comments on your blog, and maybe that is why? You don't want to deal with trolls. Reading your comments to Dr. Helen's site, I can imagine why.

By the way, I went to Stanford for my PhD. And here is something you might benefit from: before each person is awarded a PhD at Stanford, they are giving a little seminar about how NOT to act like a offensive snob in the future.

I would prefer to just ignore your comments above, and focus on some of the insightful, interesting things you posted on your blog. In this holiday season, why not be nicer?

Remember the play "Harvey"? In it, Elwood P. Dowd reminds the audience that his mother had told him that he could be oh so smart or oh so pleasant. Dowd than says that he recommends pleasant.

So do I.

Sorry for the long post, folks.

4:53 PM, December 27, 2007  
Blogger Cham said...

I've got my snacks and soda, leaning back to get comfy. Carry on people, an exciting evening is ahead.

5:03 PM, December 27, 2007  
Blogger dadvocate said...

Cham - LOL!

I saw your comment. Scrolled up. Understood completely.

6:12 PM, December 27, 2007  
Blogger Mary said...

Goucher has been coed for 21 years. You could have looked that up, but I suspect it is more fun to play the "girls' school" insult game for you. Cheap shot, though.

My friend who went to that "worse, less competitive" school that you were so judgmental of was recently awarded tenure at Caltech in the sciences.


Your friend isn't using his "education" to constantly lament the liberal troubles on college campuses, though, is he?

Maybe Mr. Goldberg would have more credibility as a campus critic had he actually attended one of the non-liberal arts, top-flight colleges where there wasn't so much p.c. coddling and you actually learned to .... think.

So, it's clearly a fair question: why didn't Mr. Goldberg choose -- or was he a weak candidate for admission -- a more challenging undergrad school than one traditionally catering to women's needs? Methinks some of ye are avoiding the question, and not too skillfully either.

Like Barack Obama, Mr. Goldberg seems to have one special credential that helped his career along -- in his case, his Mama and her advising of Linda Tripp.

7:10 PM, December 27, 2007  
Blogger Eric Blair said...

Ah, trolls! It is the Christmas season, and Scandinavian myth-figures abound.

Actually, Mary, my Caltech friend is very proud of his Goucher education, though he is as about as far to the Left as Goldberg is to the Right. Funny how everything isn't about politics.

And if you can find a college that doesn't do any PC coddling...well, your statement suggests to me that you haven't actually been to college.

Say, Mary, where did you go to college? Do you have a higher degree? If so, from where? Academic honors? Publish any books? Have you ever been paid to write anything? Are you known for *anything* other than this kind of negative interaction? Proof please---and keep in mind YOU are the one getting all snotty about colleges.

I sense the scent of sour grapes in the air.

I'm just curious how much *better* you have done in your life, having (presumably) gone to such a better college for undergraduate education? Remember, you are the one acting the snob; even Goldberg doesn't do that.

Do tell. Please provide a CV for *all* to see. Love to see how well your superior education has taken you.

Again, YOU are the one acting the snob, attacking colleges that you never bother to research---as I wrote before, and even flippin' Wikipedia states, Goucher went coed over two decades ago. So put up or shut up. In detail.

Or spend some time writing some of the well reasoned and pleasant posts I have seen on your blog. Isn't that a better use of your time?

Methinks, to quote you, you just want some blog traffic. I wonder why?

Again: how much better to be pleasant than "smart."

7:48 PM, December 27, 2007  
Blogger moondancer said...

I've read enough of the extended excerpts at sadlyno to see what use Jonah Pantloads screed is good for. Two pages covers the bottom of my birdcage quite nicely. Luckily, my little budgie doesn't read, otherwise it would be cruel to the bird.
I wont buy the book of course, just nab my wingnut neighbors copy.

8:31 PM, December 27, 2007  
Blogger Jimmie said...

It amazes me how quickly the "reality based community" is to avoid critical thinking in the case of this book. Goldberg has apparently really hit a sore spot. It's a shame that so many who profess to be so smart can discount a book with nothing more than slurs and innuendo.

Then again, I recall a certain style of governance that begins with an "F" doing exactly the same thing.

9:18 PM, December 27, 2007  
Blogger jeweejewish said...

Panty Doughload's book will one day be remembered as a watershed event in our culture.

After it's publication, anybody who claimed to believe that it's not the most hilariously clueless nonsense in the history of hilariously clueless nonsense would have to officially forfeit any claim to be a rational human being whose opinions could ever be taken seriously.

This is a significant accomplishment, and I for one applaud Panty Doughload for providing such a signal service.

9:54 PM, December 27, 2007  
Blogger Mumon said...

Really. It kind of scares me that someone is a "forensic psychologist" and takes the likes of Jonah Goldberg seriously.

Perhaps it's yet another illustration of the truth of an epiphany I had some years ago: that between George W. Bush and Charles Manson, there's quite a bit of difference in magnitude, if not in style.

Manson's groupies are largely harmless now, behind bars or beyond their prime.

But Bush's groupies are still doing "Helter Skelter" on the rest of the world.

And proof of it is the fact that there's a "forensic psychologist," Void help us, in Knoxville, who takes Goldberg seriously.

I can only hope that you don't damage your subjects enough to cause more violence.

11:11 PM, December 27, 2007  
Blogger tbogg said...

I have always wondered how comments written by Stewie Griffin would read. Eric Blair clears up the mystery.

George Orwell wants his name back, by the way.

11:13 PM, December 27, 2007  
Blogger Lex said...

Golly, considering the fact that the book isn't even on sale yet he certainly does have Certain Peoples' knickers in a twist.

Prolly because he misses the mark so wildly that they take offense to the Wildly Missed Mark of it. And everything.

Must be obvious since no one's talking about, you know: The merits of his argument. Or otherwise.

11:19 PM, December 27, 2007  
Blogger AStanhope said...

The Nazis enjoyed high-fiber diets.

Liberals enjoy high-fiber diets.

The Nazis were a bunch of homos.

Liberals are a bunch of homos. (Note that GAY MARRIAGE is legal in ultra-liberal Massachusetts).

The Nazis started a war that drew in much of the world.

Liberals are always starting wars.

The Nazis built factories to exterminate human beings.

Liberals love building factories to exterminate human beings.

The Nazis spoke German.

Liberals speak Esperanto.

Nazis wore really cool uniforms.

Liberals secretly wear really cool uniforms (behind closed doors).

Nazis performed medical experiments on prisoners.

Liberals want to destroy viable embryos for fun but disguise their mirth as "medical experiments."

The Nazis hated Jews.

Liberals want Iran to wipe Israel off the face of the earth using nuclear weapons.

I could go on and on.

The fact is that when one speaks of Nazis or Liberals he or she is really speaking about a single large group of essentially the same people.

Neonazism runs rampant in traditionally liberal places in the US like San Francisco, New York and Boston.

Liberals are trying to bring back the arm-band as hip fashion, with or without the swastika. Part of the reason that Liberals love Michael Jackson so much is that he has long carried the torch of the modern arm-band fashion movement.

Liberals also respect Michael Jackson because he's part of the conspiracy to make aberrant sexual behavior involving adults and minors acceptable. What a better spokesperson for the liberal movement?

I can't wait to read Jonah's book because I'm sure that he's explored these issues and many others in much finer detail than I am capable of.

Arbeit Macht Frei!

12:16 AM, December 28, 2007  
Blogger sashal said...

The Nazi's killed all the Social Democrats and Communists. The means of production were held privately in Nazi Germany which made them capitalists. A few social programs does not make a a socialist. It makes one a politician trying to get get or keep support. They also banned labor unions. That isn't very Socialist. Its sounds Republican.

Because they found efficient methods of murder and burning of the bodies did not make them environmentalists either. They used mass transportation to fill death camps too.
Do you think if they made Jews drive their own cars to Auschwitz they would have been Libertarians?

2:34 AM, December 28, 2007  
Blogger sashal said...

Ans, Helen, btw , I am writing a book : "Conservative Communism: The Secret History
of the American Right from Marx to Mission Accomplished"
Looking ahead to be invited on your show...

2:50 AM, December 28, 2007  
Blogger br549 said...

The book is about a movement. One should listen to the podcast, and then agree or disagree.

Every negative response so far has been an attack on a personal level.

Rule # 5.

6:20 AM, December 28, 2007  
Blogger Helen said...

br549,

It's doubtful here that many of the negative commenters read the book. Surprisingly, even Publishers Weekly who leans left gave the book a good review.

Sashal,

If you get the book published, it is as well researched and documented as Mr. Goldberg's book and you want to send us a copy to look at for our show, we'll be happy to consider having you on!

7:08 AM, December 28, 2007  
Blogger sashal said...

br549,
personal?
I personally attacked the stupid ideas of the stupid book.
I never said anything personal about idiot manipulative liar - Jonah.
Helen, thank you, but if you can call Jonah's book well researched, may be i should seek the audience with real understanding of the history and philosophy, not the one's who appreciate the lazy workings of some unethical hack

7:38 AM, December 28, 2007  
Blogger moondancer said...

Goldbergs premise is based on a throw away line from one speech, used out of context. It is patently false. Goldbergs scholarship is embarrassing in it's deceit and conceit. He seems incapable of understanding Wells, which doesn't surprise me. Since without mommies coattails, he'd be properly unknown.
Jonah, would a honorary PHD in Sophistry make you crawl back into mommies basement to a life of Cheetos and Mountain Dew?

8:37 AM, December 28, 2007  
Blogger Filthy said...

Perhaps the reason that so many are getting their knickers in a bunch is that a variety of people who consider themselves "thoughtful" and "educated" are giving credence and serious thought to and idea that's blatantly idiotic straight out of the gates? Does anyone really want to be the next wave of 9/11 truthers?

10:36 AM, December 28, 2007  
Blogger Ti-Guy said...

...as well researched and documented as Mr. Goldberg's book...

You didn't read it either, did you, "Dr."

...though, based on your record, you really don't understand research or documentation, do you?

10:43 AM, December 28, 2007  
Blogger M said...

It's interesting and telling that most of the "anti" comments are not directed at the ideas themselves but consist of personal comments and pot-shots at the author himself. It is also doubtful that any of those with such comments have read the book themselves. Glenn and Helen actually have.

If you really think Jonah's book is the same thing as 9/11 trutherism, then discuss it rationally. I don't call Truthers "Pantsy McFatLoad" or whatever cutsie little names the trolls have come up with. Do you?

11:04 AM, December 28, 2007  
Blogger kindness said...

Jeez folks....

The proper nickname used for Jonah is Doughboy Pantload. It's a metaphore of sorts. If you haven't seen it before, you haven't read too many progressive web sites then, have you?

Those of us who read SadlyNo! have been reading parts of this book for a week or more now.

Why do you all think this "well researched" book took over FOUR YEARS to get to print? We who read SadlyNo! know why.

Let's start a pool to see how quickly this "fine literary work" hits the remainder bin.

11:33 AM, December 28, 2007  
Blogger LFC said...

I read the actual book passages and commentary at Sadly, No! which strongly challenge the notion that the book is "well researched", including nonsensical statements about animal rights, healthy eating, homosexuals, prohibition, religion, McCarthism, etc. It seems that they effectively managed to eviscerate the book using its own words.

Still, I'd be interested to know the counter argument. What passages are well researched, and what outside sources back up that contention? Where are the mistakes in the analysis done by Sadly, No!?

12:17 PM, December 28, 2007  
Blogger Evolouie said...

Every last one of these point can be found to have happened under republican leadership.

1.)Powerful and Continuing Nationalism: Fascist regimes tend to make constant use of patriotic mottos, slogans, symbols, songs, and other paraphernalia.

2.)Disdain for the Recognition of Human Rights: Because of fear of enemies and the need for security, the people in fascist regimes are persuaded that human rights can be ignored in certain cases because of "need."

3.)Identification of Enemies/Scapegoats as a Unifying Cause: The people are rallied into a unifying patriotic frenzy over the need to eliminate a perceived common threat or foe: racial, ethnic or religious minorities; liberals; communists; socialists, terrorists, etc.

4.) Supremacy of the Military: Even when there are widespread domestic problems, the military is given a disproportionate amount of government funding, and the domestic agenda is neglected.

5.)Rampant Sexism: The governments of fascist nations tend to be almost exclusively male-dominated. Opposition to abortion is high, as is homophobia and anti-gay legislation and national policy.

6.)Controlled Mass Media: Sometimes the media is directly controlled by the government, but in other cases, the media is indirectly controlled by government regulation, or sympathetic media spokespeople and executives.

7.)Obsession with National Security: Fear is used as a motivational tool by the government over the masses.

8.)Religion and Government are Intertwined: Governments in fascist nations tend to use the most common religion in the nation as a tool to manipulate public opinion.

9.)Corporate Power is Protected: The industrial and business aristocracy of a fascist nation often are the ones who put the government leaders into power, creating a mutually beneficial business/government relationship and power elite.

10.)Labor Power is Suppressed: Because the organizing power of labor is the only real threat to a fascist government, labor unions are either eliminated entirely, or are severely suppressed.

11.)Disdain for Intellectuals and the Arts: Fascist nations tend to promote and tolerate open hostility to higher education, and academia. It is not uncommon for professors and other academics to be censored or even arrested.

12.)Obsession with Crime and Punishment: Under fascist regimes, the police are given almost limitless power to enforce laws. The people are often willing to overlook police abuses and even forego civil liberties in the name of patriotism.

13.)Rampant Cronyism and Corruption: Fascist regimes almost always are governed by groups of friends and associates who appoint each other to government positions and use governmental power and authority to protect their friends from accountability.

14.)Fraudulent Elections: Sometimes elections in fascist nations are a complete sham. Other times elections are manipulated by smear campaigns against or even assassination of opposition candidates, use of legislation to control voting numbers or political district boundaries, and manipulation of the media. Fascist nations also typically use their judiciaries to manipulate or control elections.

So you see Goldberg is full of shit when he blames americas current state of fascisim on liberals.
The man is as lier, it's not his fault, his mother was a lier.

2:23 PM, December 28, 2007  
Blogger Titushard said...

Dr. Helen I am gay. I heard you can make me straight.

So if you could wave your magic wand over my gay head I would appreciate it.

Thanks.

3:04 PM, December 28, 2007  
Blogger Heather said...

BDS, on display above.

3:12 PM, December 28, 2007  
Blogger Evolouie said...

Heather,
You claim BDS on my part.
Give one example where my post is not accurate about the current republican administration.

Or do you always make claims you can't support with the facts?

Oh and by the way, "your" president is deranged.

3:57 PM, December 28, 2007  
Blogger LFC said...

Evolouie said... Give one example where my post is not accurate about the current republican administration.

Don't hold your breath. BDS is a catchphrase used by Bush apologists when they don't like what you've posted. They hold it up like vampire hunter holds up a cross and garlic. "Begone, foul repeater of facts! BEGONE!"

I've yet to see anybody who uses this term even try to mount an adequate defense of the administration using, you know, facts and stuff. They best I've seen is quoting of bloggers and media figures that also defend GW without using any real facts.

And 4 hours later, I'm still waiting for a fact based defense of Jonah's book.

4:11 PM, December 28, 2007  
Blogger sashal said...

too bad, I used to like VOLVOs.

I think they can do without me buying their neocon supporting cars

5:07 PM, December 28, 2007  
Blogger Heather said...

Evolouie said... Give one example where my post is not accurate about the current republican administration.

Only one? My line for someone who is beyond arguing with is simple. Do they believe Bush stole the 2004 election? If they do then they have BDS and are not worth debating with.

I'll keep it simple. I don't really like Bush that much. I only agree with him on national defense.

5:25 PM, December 28, 2007  
Blogger kindness said...

Uhhh...Heather?

This thread isn't about you. I'm not a trained psychologist but I would guess that someone who wants to make all conversation about them might have some issues that need to be addressed.

But I do understand that speech on a web site is cheaper than seeing a shrink. Maybe the good Professor here can give you a pointer or two...

5:59 PM, December 28, 2007  
Blogger serket said...

I don't know if I'll read the book, but I do enjoy reading an occasional blog post from Goldberg. I know there are religious conservatives that want the government to force people to be moral, but it seems like generally it is the progressives that want the government to force you to live a certain way.

Mary, Wikipedia has a good overview of his education and writing experience. It looks like most of it came before 1998 and Clinton's adultery.

6:08 PM, December 28, 2007  
Blogger Jon Swift said...

I do hope you'll interview me at some point about my better, more entertaing version of "Liberal Fascism."

6:21 PM, December 28, 2007  
Blogger br549 said...

Wow. A lot of foaming mouths and flaming foreheads. This is an absolute blast to read.

6:24 PM, December 28, 2007  
Blogger Cham said...

I have no clue about liberal fascism, for all I know I might be one. But the real question that begs to be answered is whether the Goucher Bambis are liberal fascists and do they deserve to die a horrible and painful death?

6:44 PM, December 28, 2007  
Blogger Titushard said...

This comment has been removed by a blog administrator.

6:46 PM, December 28, 2007  
Blogger 1charlie2 said...

Dr Helen,

My, my, Jonah's work has brought them all out.

Let's see, first we have folks saying that a forensic psych doesn't understand research. Hee hee hee. That's one troll that's a write-off.

I'm not saying you are necessarily sufficiently critical of Goldberg's work -- that's potentially a plausible argument. But since I'm married to an ed. psych. myself, I do understand that you had to take all sorts of analyses, exp. methods, etc. It reminds me of the trolls who argued that two economists from CRS didn't have the knowledge to tear apart a meta-analysis on the subject of "second-hand smoke" -- another laughable idea.

Oh, and we have "that girls' school," "cooking up pop-tarts," and "more competitive," which are textbook examples of argumentum ad hominem. Again, an argument that "perhaps so-and-so's sample size was too small" -- which would be arguing with the experiment -- is discarded in favor of the intellectually-bankrupt cheap shot.

As for excepts from sadlyno, why not cross-post one or two specifics ? That way, it's not a "my website can lick your website" argument. Especially when combined with other ad hominems (ad homina ?) like "wingnut" and "Panty Doughload." Useful shorthand for "I have no serious argument to make, so I'll call people names."

Much the same can be said of analogies between George Bush and Charles Manson.

So sashal, my hearty thanks. At least one person who begins by making what seems to be a counter-argument. As I have not read the book, I can neither endorse nor rebut your first two comments, but they were refreshing in the absence of profanity and lack of ad hominem. I think br549 overlooked your early posts in his blanket statement about such things. On the other hand, sashal, are you really going to boycott Volvo for supporting one podcast whose author you disagree with ? Can you see what that says about your interest in freedom of expression ? Do you seriousoly consider yourself "progressive" with that attitude ? There are many authors with whom I disagree, but to consider this book that egregious is pretty far out.

Mind you, sashal is one of the few arguing against the book that I think I could actually converse with.

I weep for the death of civil discourse. I really don't like the current administration. But I will not abandon my sense of proportion over it. Nor will I sacrifice freedom of expression over it.

It's ironic. The more vitriolic some of these posters become, the more I begin to think -- not having read the book yet -- that the author is on to something. Groupthink is pretty darned dangerous. And far too many -- on the left in this example -- are engaging in it.

8:30 PM, December 28, 2007  
Blogger Evolouie said...

Heather,
I'm not here to argue as you suggest.
"Only one? My line for someone who is beyond arguing with is simple. Do they believe Bush stole the 2004 election? If they do then they have BDS and are not worth debating with."
Lets debate the facts about current american fascisim.
Then if you still have it in you after i kick your ass on that one we'll debate the 2004 election.

8:48 PM, December 28, 2007  
Blogger Stephen Snell said...

"He's a stupid poopy pants" seems to be the level of criticism here.

(s)asshal pretty clearly showed bad faith in asking for a book-related invite. once it was offered, it became "helen is a poopy head not smart enough to interview me" which actually means (s)asshal could never hope to get a book published and could never make a compelling case during a podcast.

where are all the u.s. dissidents being locked away for criticizing Bush? if bush were fascist, every member of DKos would be in jail. the commenter above who regurgitated some list regarding fascism has missed this fairly obvious fact. and ward churchill the serial plagiarizer without adequate academic credentials doesn't count.

unless i'm mistaken goucher is similar to radcliffe (harvard) in its relationship to johns hopkins.

8:51 PM, December 28, 2007  
Blogger Evolouie said...

Heather,
I'm not here to argue as you suggest.
"Only one? My line for someone who is beyond arguing with is simple. Do they believe Bush stole the 2004 election? If they do then they have BDS and are not worth debating with."
Lets debate the facts about current american fascisim.
Then if you still have it in you after i kick your ass on that one we'll debate the 2004 election.

8:52 PM, December 28, 2007  
Blogger sashal said...

yes, br549, if only you had a slightest clue what people here are talking about.
so far we all had seen from you just mindless spews...

9:36 PM, December 28, 2007  
Blogger sashal said...

HEATHER, nobody is talking about bush here.
We are talking about fascism and Jonah' stupidity

9:42 PM, December 28, 2007  
Blogger sashal said...

btw, Dr.Helen, censorship is the form of the fascism as well

9:44 PM, December 28, 2007  
Blogger Franco said...

Identification of Enemies/Scapegoats as a Unifying Cause: The people are rallied into a unifying patriotic frenzy over the need to eliminate a perceived common threat or foe: racial, ethnic or religious minorities; liberals; communists; socialists, terrorists, etc.

You forgot Republicans, Christians, Conservatives, White Males

_______________________

Supremacy of the Military: Even when there are widespread domestic problems, the military is given a disproportionate amount of government funding, and the domestic agenda is neglected.

The military has a much smaller portion of national expenditure than domestic agendas.

I find the local police much more intrusive into ordinary Americans' lives, and more and more they are focusing on crimes in our homes drugs, alcohol, domestic abuse, fastening seat belts, cameras for stop lights, etc. This comes from Democrats as much or more than Republicans.

Conservatives want the church to judge and apply peer pressure for morality, ok bad enough, but liberal fascists want to POLICE morality - much, much worse.

____________________________

13.)Rampant Cronyism and Corruption: Fascist regimes almost always are governed by groups of friends and associates who appoint each other to government positions and use governmental power and authority to protect their friends from accountability.

Sounds like New Orleans, Detroit, Chicago, Philadelphia, San Francisco, all run by Democrats !

_______________________

10.)Labor Power is Suppressed: Because the organizing power of labor is the only real threat to a fascist government, labor unions are either eliminated entirely, or are severely suppressed.

Oh my God! I didn't know the NEA and AFSCME were being repressed! I thought they had a monopoly!

________________________

5.)Rampant Sexism: The governments of fascist nations tend to be almost exclusively male-dominated. Opposition to abortion is high, as is homophobia and anti-gay legislation and national policy.

This is hilarious! You must have forgotten to take that History course your school offered. This means every government in history was fascist!

_______________________

2.)Disdain for the Recognition of Human Rights: Because of fear of enemies and the need for security, the people in fascist regimes are persuaded that human rights can be ignored in certain cases because of "need."

It seems, once again, that every country in the world is and was fascist, except perhaps Norway Sweden, and Canada which all survive by being protected by a "fascist" state anyway and are thus complicit - Of course the USA has no concern for human rights - never has, never will. Only dweebs like yourself believe in human rights, and you are so impotent - you can't make anyone do what you want because you don't believe in force. You won't fight a war for it - you just bitch and feel superior. But you will believe in force once you achieve power. Then it will be quite fine and justified. That's the legacy, and you can see it in the hate and psychological projection.

___________________

1.)Powerful and Continuing Nationalism: Fascist regimes tend to make constant use of patriotic mottos, slogans, symbols, songs, and other paraphernalia.

Ya mean like Che T-shirts, No blood for oil, Give peace a chance, Bush is Hitler?

Lots of sloganeering, symbols songs,come from the left Niel Young Impeach the President, Bruce Springsteen, Hollywood movies, Fahrenheit 911

___________________

Leftists have become what they hate and this shows in their vitriol.

You hate yourselves and you project yourselves onto your perceived enemy and use that enemy to take out your intense frustrations.

You buck each other up with name-calling and peer coercion and so many of you are moral cowards and intellectual midgets. You haven't had an original thought in decades!

Peace and love from a real Liberal

9:46 PM, December 28, 2007  
Blogger Evolouie said...

And now another rightwing website that wont post valid to the point rebutals.
Your all the same, can't face the facts.

11:27 PM, December 28, 2007  
Blogger Matt said...

You folks might be interested to know that these trolls are likely employees of an opposition research firm.

We've seen them appear wherever Goldberg's book is mentioned. They set-up new accounts with the forum and proceed to post a scripted set of diversions and criticisms.

If you don't engage them, they'll become increasingly threatening and antisemitic. These tactics ensure that your forum is blacklisted by filtering software.

The reason that we suspect that they've been hired is that their posts are obviously scripted and follow the same pattern of escalation. It's likely that this is the work of only one or two people. They're using software that automates the discovery and posting process.

12:50 AM, December 29, 2007  
Blogger br549 said...

matt:
I've noticed that. I call it the Hillalinsky method.

9:30 AM, December 29, 2007  
Blogger Evolouie said...

Franco you ignorant fool,
you call me a moral midget, yet you proved my very point when you threw in your true view and added
that silly part about " christian, conservative, white males"
Your just like Heather, you think it's all about you.

Matt,
You seem to have some paranoid delusions about a blacklisting conspiracy. Whats that all about?

Do any of you have any facts?

Again I say:

Goldberg is full of shit when he blames americas current state of fascisim on liberals.
The man is as lier, it's not his fault, his mother was a lier.

9:50 AM, December 29, 2007  
Blogger mikez said...

Look all of you guys areway off the mark. Do a little history checking and you'll find that:
Prescott Bush and his father in law, George Herbert Walker, were in business with Nazi's in the 30's and exposed by WWI hero, Gen Smedley Butler at the Congressional Comission of McCormak and Dickstein in 1934. They were involved in a coup attemp with Goodyear, JP Morgan, DuPOnt...to overthrow the socialist FDR. Also, the president of IBM had strong ties, not to mention many dinner invitations, to Hitler and designed their database used for tracking the inmates of the concentration camps as well as documenting the endless expiriments. IBM and BUSH CO have been friends for a very long time. Also,
Hitler spied = Bush Spies
Hitler's Fatherland Act = Bush's Patriot Act
Hitler controlled Media = Bush (FOX, GE, Disney) controll media
Hitler had concentration camps = FEMA has empty camps,ready and waiting, in NM, NV, WY, UT...
Hitler invaded Poland to start WWII = Bush invaded Iraq, wants to invade Iran, to start WW3.
I'd keep going but I'm bored schooling you idoits. do some independant research!!!

10:16 AM, December 29, 2007  
Blogger Oligonicella said...

evolouie --

That might be because this forum is not a debate site. Jes 'cause you demand an answer don't guarantee you'll get one. That's life, get used to it.

mikez --

I have. It shows all your points to be tenuous fabrications.

11:17 AM, December 29, 2007  
Blogger MidKnight said...

Wow.. A bunch of personal attacks and ad hominems. Followed up by a bunch of "reality-based" people oversimplifying things and unable to differentiate while calling people stupid and simpleminded..

*sigh*

If you ever wonder why someone might want to write a book like "Liberal Fascists" check out this article:

http://www.baltimorechronicle.com/2007/122407Lindorff.shtml

"The important thing is that we, on the higher ground both actually and figuratively, need to remember that, when they begin their historic migration from their doomed regions, we not give them the keys to the city. They certainly should be offered assistance in their time of need, but we need to keep a firm grip on our political systems, making sure that these guilty throngs who allowed the world to go to hell are gerrymandered into political impotence in their new home."



Ohh.. Lets force them to be second class citizens and not even allow them a political voice.

Sound familiar?

12:54 PM, December 29, 2007  
Blogger ricpic said...

In fascism you don't argue with an opponent you attack him, you attempt to destroy him. Which is exactly what the fascistic left, protesting that it's not fascistic, is doing on this thread.

3:10 PM, December 29, 2007  
Blogger GawainsGhost said...

Well, this has been an interesting comment thread, if somewhat predictably boring.

I admit I haven't read Mr. Goldberg's book, mainly because I don't care much for his writing. I have yet to read anything of interest he's written on NRO, which is why I stopped reading him long ago.

And I admit I haven't listened to the podcast. Perhaps I should, but I don't feel like it.

Having read a few items about this book, I do have a few questions though.

Fascism = national socialism. Um, wouldn't that be Nazism?

Communism = Marxist socialism. Yes, and your point is?

If fascism and communism are both variants of socialism, the distinction between the two does no good without first defining what socialism is.

Actually, the distinction between fascism and communism is really simple. Fascism is state control of industry. Communism is state ownership of industry. Hitler did not advocate the former; Mousolini did. Marx certainly advocated the latter, as did Lenin after him.

The problem with today's society is the total lack of congruence on the meanings of words. We're all living in Wonderland, where "a word means what I say it means, nothing more, nothing less. The question is who is the master, that is all."

Thus, contemporary leftists prefer to be called progressives. But the policies they advocate are not progressive, merely a means to socialism, which properly defined is empowering the government to redistribute wealth from producers to non-producers. (Note. Non-producers does not mean consumers, since consumers must first produce wealth in order to consume anything. Non-producers means those who do not produce wealth in the first place, but merely get by off hand outs.) This is not the same as fascism or communism.

Contemporary rightists prefer to be called conservatives. But the policies they advocate are not conservative, merely a means to corporatism, which properly defined is empowering the government to redistribute wealth from taxpers to failed corporations. (If a corporate entity posts a profit, it gets to keep it. If it posts a loss, the taxpayers get shafted.)

Oh, but wait a minute, that's the same as redistributing wealth from producers to non-producers, or socialism, isn't it? Never mind.

Personally, I'm a traditionalist. There are certain truths I will not deny, certain values I will not compromise and certain principles I will not concede. Chief among these are the self-evident truths (life, liberty, happiness) named in the Declaration of Independence, the self-evident values (equality, freedom, individualism) outlined in the Bill of Rights and the self-evident principles of governance (limited government, separation of powers, checks and balances) outlined in the Constitution of the United States.

Not that I would expect to get any of that from contemporary progressives or conservatives, socialists or coporatists. So mainly I just look out for myself and pretty much ignore everyone else.

6:32 PM, December 29, 2007  
Blogger William said...

Soo, we have so-called liberal facists on the left, and religious conservative neocon fascists on the right...

I think I'll go with the group that is better educated and less willing to give up civil liberties.

9:20 AM, December 30, 2007  
Blogger john_render said...

I had heard that Kos was losing traffic. I thought it was that its participants could no longer see their screens through all the spittle. Had no idea they'd taken to spending their time here.

8:55 PM, December 30, 2007  
Blogger Robert said...

Mary, you are no expert on reality. It's funny that you think you can judge Goldberg's education when your grasp of reality sucks. You reject reality in favor of superstitious nonsense.

1:59 AM, December 31, 2007  
Blogger William said...

Oh sorry John, I didn't know this was where religious conservative authoritarian neocon war/fear-mongering gun-nut fascists unite. Heil Bush, Heil Isreal.

"He [Rudy Giuliani] has the knowledge and judgment to attack one of the most difficult problems in current history, and that is the rise of the Muslims....‘til we defeat them or chase them back to their caves, or in other words, get rid of them."

-- John Deady, Co-Chair for New Hampshire’s Veterans for Rudy

11:16 AM, December 31, 2007  
Blogger Caved1ver said...

International Socialists (iNAZI's), Neo-Marxists, illiberals and assorted sufferers of "Bush Derangement Syndrome":

The term "Liberal Fascism" was apparently coined by H. G. Wells- not your average right-wing nut.

3:17 PM, December 31, 2007  
Blogger Caved1ver said...

Look all of you guys areway off the mark. Do a little history checking and you'll find that:
Prescott Bush and his father in law, George Herbert Walker, were in business with Nazi's in the 30's and exposed by WWI hero, Gen Smedley Butler at the Congressional Comission of McCormak and Dickstein in 1934. They were involved in a coup attemp with Goodyear, JP Morgan, DuPOnt...to overthrow the socialist FDR. Also, the president of IBM had strong ties, not to mention many dinner invitations, to Hitler and designed their database used for tracking the inmates of the concentration camps as well as documenting the endless expiriments. IBM and BUSH CO have been friends for a very long time.

+Reality: Congressman Dickstein was a paid SOVIET SPY.

Also,
Hitler spied = Bush Spies

+The NSA has engaged in domestic spying since 1947- do your research.

Hitler's Fatherland Act = Bush's Patriot Act

+The "Patriot Act" incorporates the Carter-ERA FISA legislation- do your research.

Hitler controlled Media = Bush (FOX, GE, Disney) controll media

+The MSM is the active "mouthpiece" of the LEFT- do your research.

Hitler had concentration camps = FEMA has empty camps,ready and waiting, in NM, NV, WY, UT...

+ Too "reality-challenged" a comment to even respond.

Hitler invaded Poland to start WWII = Bush invaded Iraq, wants to invade Iran, to start WW3.

+How can the most ostensibly incompetent & verbally incontinent President( at least according to the leftist MSM) in the history of the U.S. accomplish the most far reaching conspiracy in the history of the U.S., including manipulating prominent members of the Democrat party (that so viscerally hates him) into voting in support of the Iraqi invasion? Which is it? The more you “international socialists” spin your unsubstantiated conspiracy theories the more you sound like your national socialist forebears when they began their efforts to malign Jewry, i.e., sub-human but able to conceive & maintain a global cabal.

I'd keep going but I'm bored schooling you idoits. do some independant research!!!

+There is nothing more idiotic than an overt sufferer of "Bush Derangement Syndrome".

3:34 PM, December 31, 2007  
Blogger Caved1ver said...

Evolouie:

For the sake of argument:

EARLY WARNING SIGNS OF FASCISM:
-Powerful and continuing nationalism

As opposed to “international socialism” proposed by the “i-Nazi’s” of the left? Must be that evil Patriarchy again…

-Disdain for human rights

There’s that “torture” innuendo again. Physical/mental discomfort does not equal torture. Human Rights? How about 13th Amendment vs. involuntary servitude: Men being held in prison indefinitely after not paying court-ordered child support. How about the 14th Amendment: a) Civil Rights vs. institutional discrimination: anti- white male affirmative action/quotas b) Right of Due process vs. Sexist “Violence Against Women Act” (VAWA): Men automatically assumed to be guilty when accused of “domestic violence” (e.g.,Duke rape myth.)

-Identification of enemies as a unifying cause

“Multi-culturalism” is the method by which the LEFT identifies “Western Culture” in general & “white men” in particular as being “enemies as a unifying cause” for every creature playing “group-identity” politics?

-Supremacy of the military

The embodiment of the evil Patriarchy: the US spends 5 times more money on the “Entitlement Industrial Complex” ($1.4T) than it spends on the military. How long have you been intimidated by assertive, intelligent males in uniform?

-Rampant sexism

You must be referring the in the rampant “institutionalized Misandry” (men=evil oppressor/ women= good victim) that pervades modern US society.

-Controlled mass media

Yes, the MSM is the active “mouthpiece” of the LEFT.

-Obsession with national security

As opposed to obsession with domestic policy, e.g., the Pro-Female “Welfare-Industrial Complex.”

-Religion and government intertwined

Really? You must be referring to the Leftwing theocrats responsible for most of our domestic social ills in perpetuity, e.g. “poverty p*mp” clergy (e.g., Jesse Jackson) utilizing their pulpits to extol their Hyphenated-American flocks to vote Democrat & support the welfare-state in perpetuity, Catholic clergy ignoring US immigration laws by harboring and providing sanctuary to illegal immigrants, and “Christians” like Ms. Clinton who advocate “Pro-choice” when in fact the debate about pro-choice vs. pro-life is bogus; it’s really pro-irresponsible woman vs. pro-fetus. These are the left-wing Christians who overtly support an expansion the disastrous feminist-oriented, “Welfare Industrial Complex” as a valid exercise of their misguided FAITH.

-Corporate power protected

Both parties are equally guilty.

-Labor power suppressed

Yes, Left wing unions have contributed to the outstanding success of several US institutions, e.g., the Auto Industry (UAW) and Public Education (NEA).

-Disdain for intellectuals and the arts

As opposed to leftwing anti-intellectualism: the left believes in the validity of “science by consensus of opinion” as replacement for the scientific method. The “scientific method” is apparently invalid because of its hierarchical, patriarchal nature & its reliance on “fact.” The left fervently believes in anthropogenic global warming caused by man -generated “greenhouse gases” while ignoring fluctuations in “solar luminosity” associated w/ “black spot” activity. Currently, the Martian ice caps are also receding. Apparently those evil Republicans have secretly found an inexpensive way of transporting their SUVs to Mars. The left believes global warming contributed to the creation of Hurricane Katrina, yet the 2007 Hurricane season was the tamest in the last 40 plus years. The left believes that homosexuality has a genetic basis w/o scientific evidence (apparently Darwin was wrong,) despite the fact that the phenomenon could be explained via the concept of “Congenital Sexual Dyslexia.” The left believes that “gender is a social construct” in direct contradiction of scientific evidence.

-Obsession with crime and punishment

You must live in a gated community. Try to forego Marx, Chomsky & Freidan for a short while and read Hobbes & Locke sometime.

-Rampant cronyism and corruption

Not endemic solely to the Republican Party.

-Fraudulent elections

Get over the 2000 elections. Your Bush Derangement Syndrome is getting the better of you.

3:49 PM, December 31, 2007  
Blogger Evolouie said...

Caved1ver

+Reality: Congressman Dickstein was a paid SOVIET SPY.

This has what to do with anything.
It does not change the facts.

Also,
Hitler spied = Bush Spies

+The NSA has engaged in domestic spying since 1947- do your research.
So that makes it ok then?

+The "Patriot Act" incorporates the Carter-ERA FISA legislation- do your research.
It alkso incorporates the word THE. and that still does not change the facts that bush broke the law.

+The MSM is the active "mouthpiece" of the LEFT- do your research.
Ok now you are showing your ignorance. Fox and all of Murdock is a fascist mouthpeice and they openly admit it.


Hitler had concentration camps = FEMA has empty camps,ready and waiting, in NM, NV, WY, UT...

+ Too "reality-challenged" a comment to even respond.

If you don't believe this your naieve and not paying attention.


Ok I could go on and on but you are like heather in that you make claims not supported by the truth.

You Caved1ver are oviously an angry white christian conservative male who is scared to death of women and those colored folks.

You really need to change the news channel to something other than the admited fox ENTERTAINMENT news.
Or was that the fox porn channel.
Anyway get over it, your the minority in this country and you will lose the house the senate and the Whitehouse in 2008.
And America and the world will be better off for it.


Bush invaded iraq Why.
Can you answer that one question honestly because if you can you better tell bush because he can't answer it honestly.

5:23 PM, December 31, 2007  
Blogger William said...

Interesting discussion. Federal documents in the National Archive revealed the Nazi- Prescott Bush relationship. That family tradition of war profiteering exists to the present day. All the info is available, sources and details too numerous to list. See here for a synopsis. It's an important part of American history.

7:13 PM, December 31, 2007  
Blogger Bruce Hayden said...

Surprisingly full of trolls who seemed to want to just name call. Trying to come up with the most disgusting title for the author doesn't convince anyone of anything.

The big thing about Fascism (and Naziism and Communism) that was ignored or missed is that all are socialist theories of government. And it is this socialism that drives their totalitarian bent.

The big difference between Naziism / Fascism on the one hand, Russian Communism on another, and Chinese Communism on a third (at least until lately) is the question of who is more equal under their form of socialism. While in all forms of socialism, all are supposedly equal, there is always one group that is more equal than the rest. In the case of Russian Communism, the original intent was probably the farmers, but since they didn't buy into the Revolution, it was ultimately based on Labor. The Chinese though put the farmers on top. In Naziism and Fascism, it was the small business man who was first among equals (except maybe the big businessman).

To this day, probably the seminal book on this was written contemporaneously in the middle of WWII by Friedrich Hayek in his The Road to Serfdom.

Let me suggest that until someone is willing to read, and then debate, Hayek, that they are mostly engaging in historical revisionism in trying to tie the present Administration or the Republican Party to either Fascism or Naziism. (And, I have no doubt that Jonah Goldberg has - have you?)

4:25 AM, January 01, 2008  
Blogger Bruce Hayden said...

1.)Powerful and Continuing Nationalism: Fascist regimes tend to make constant use of patriotic mottos, slogans, symbols, songs, and other paraphernalia.

Sounds like most Communist regimes too.

2.)Disdain for the Recognition of Human Rights: Because of fear of enemies and the need for security, the people in fascist regimes are persuaded that human rights can be ignored in certain cases because of "need."

Ditto.

3.)Identification of Enemies/Scapegoats as a Unifying Cause: The people are rallied into a unifying patriotic frenzy over the need to eliminate a perceived common threat or foe: racial, ethnic or religious minorities; liberals; communists; socialists, terrorists, etc.

4.) Supremacy of the Military: Even when there are widespread domestic problems, the military is given a disproportionate amount of government funding, and the domestic agenda is neglected.

5.)Rampant Sexism: The governments of fascist nations tend to be almost exclusively male-dominated. Opposition to abortion is high, as is homophobia and anti-gay legislation and national policy.

Ditto.

6.)Controlled Mass Media: Sometimes the media is directly controlled by the government, but in other cases, the media is indirectly controlled by government regulation, or sympathetic media spokespeople and executives.

Ditto

7.)Obsession with National Security: Fear is used as a motivational tool by the government over the masses.

8.)Religion and Government are Intertwined: Governments in fascist nations tend to use the most common religion in the nation as a tool to manipulate public opinion.

Historically necessary, due to the large RC influence in Italy and most other Fascist countries. This is one of the differences with German Naziism, which tended to use an ethnic nationalism, possibly due to its more mixed religious demographics.

9.)Corporate Power is Protected: The industrial and business aristocracy of a fascist nation often are the ones who put the government leaders into power, creating a mutually beneficial business/government relationship and power elite.

As noted in my previous post, some are more equal in any version of socialism, the question is just what group it is.

10.)Labor Power is Suppressed: Because the organizing power of labor is the only real threat to a fascist government, labor unions are either eliminated entirely, or are severely suppressed.

Somewhat misleading. What Fascism was competing with at the time was Russian version Communism, based on labor being more equal than anyone else. So, this can better be viewed as a competition of different socialist theologies.

Another way of looking at this is that Fascism was invented in response to over reaching by organized labor and their attempt to impose their (Russian Communist) version of socialism on the rest of the country.

I would suggest that a free economy, and not one that puts one factor of production above others, as suggested by this poster, is the best defense against Fascism and other forms of socialism.

Finally, with the sharp drop in power in the western world of organized labor, and in particular in this country, since the time that Fascism was first implemented, one would expect from the poster's assertions that this philosophy would now reign supeme. But, only those with extreme BDS would assert today that to be true, at least here in the U.S. Indeed, most of the "facts" asserted are less true today here than in the past, with greater labor power.

11.)Disdain for Intellectuals and the Arts: Fascist nations tend to promote and tolerate open hostility to higher education, and academia. It is not uncommon for professors and other academics to be censored or even arrested.

Sounds again more Communistic than anything. But it is a natural byproduct of any socialist regime or theology.

12.)Obsession with Crime and Punishment: Under fascist regimes, the police are given almost limitless power to enforce laws. The people are often willing to overlook police abuses and even forego civil liberties in the name of patriotism.

Ditto

13.)Rampant Cronyism and Corruption: Fascist regimes almost always are governed by groups of friends and associates who appoint each other to government positions and use governmental power and authority to protect their friends from accountability.

Ditto, though I will suggest that this also is remarkably similar to what happens in parts of the Democratic Party over the last century or so. I should add that when the historians look at our modern presidents in the hindsight of history, it is likely that no Administration will come close to Bill Clinton's in this area.

14.)Fraudulent Elections: Sometimes elections in fascist nations are a complete sham. Other times elections are manipulated by smear campaigns against or even assassination of opposition candidates, use of legislation to control voting numbers or political district boundaries, and manipulation of the media. Fascist nations also typically use their judiciaries to manipulate or control elections.

Ditto about Communism and the Democratic Party, esp. in their big city machines.

Actually, fraudulent elections seem to be one of the hallmarks of totalitarian regimes, and as was pointed out by Hayek, totalitarianism is a natural byproduct of socialism, of whatever stripe, Fascism, Naziim, Communism, etc.

I should also add that much of this is also the basis of much of the power that organized labor has had in this country and others. Even today, a large percentage of illegally registered voters and/or double voting in this country can be tied directly to efforts by organized labor.

4:58 AM, January 01, 2008  
Blogger Bruce Hayden said...

Also,
Hitler spied = Bush Spies

+The NSA has engaged in domestic spying since 1947- do your research.
So that makes it ok then?


There is no indication that there is any more domestic spying under this Administration and a lot of evidence that it is less than that of many other Administrations, Democratic as well as Nixon.

+The "Patriot Act" incorporates the Carter-ERA FISA legislation- do your research.
It alkso incorporates the word THE. and that still does not change the facts that bush broke the law.


BDS. This is a tiresome mantra from the BDS impaired.

+The MSM is the active "mouthpiece" of the LEFT- do your research.
Ok now you are showing your ignorance. Fox and all of Murdock is a fascist mouthpeice and they openly admit it.


The middle and to some extent the right have Murdock and his media empire. And they have it for one big reason - the MSM was, and mostly continues, to ignore the center and the right. As he is reported to have pointed out, it was great marketing, aiming at the 60% market segment that the rest of the media was ignoring.

Oh, and the only way that you can call Murdock a fascist is by redefining the term, as you have been attempting to do here.

Hitler had concentration camps = FEMA has empty camps,ready and waiting, in NM, NV, WY, UT...

This is a clear indication of serious BDS with this poster, if we haven't seen such before.

Bush invaded iraq Why.
Can you answer that one question honestly because if you can you better tell bush because he can't answer it honestly


I am sure in your terminal BDS, you have a lot of answers for this.

5:18 AM, January 01, 2008  
Blogger Evolouie said...

Bruce,
You reacted just as I knew you would, more unsubstantiated claims and NO ANSWEWRS.
People like you who refuse to acknowledge the facts are the ones who are to blame for the bush failed economy, bush failed foreign policy, bush failed domestic policy.
Hell everything the man touches fails. And you people refuse to acknowledge the facts.
I'm done here.

4:05 PM, January 01, 2008  
Blogger William said...

Thanks Bruce for describing the neo-con authoritarian fascist Bush Administration to a T.

1.)Powerful and Continuing Nationalism: Fascist regimes tend to make constant use of patriotic mottos, slogans, symbols, songs, and other paraphernalia.

"you're for us or against us" ... "cut n' run Democrats" ... "Democrats are invested in failure"

2.)Disdain for the Recognition of Human Rights: Because of fear of enemies and the need for security, the people in fascist regimes are persuaded that human rights can be ignored in certain cases because of "need."

Abu ghraib, Guantanamo, signing statements to subvert torture legislation and a variety of laws, illegal domestic spying, The board of governors of the American Bar Association voted unanimously to investigate Bush on signing statements....

3.)Identification of Enemies/Scapegoats as a Unifying Cause: The people are rallied into a unifying patriotic frenzy over the need to eliminate a perceived common threat or foe: racial, ethnic or religious minorities; liberals; communists; socialists, terrorists, etc.

Exactly - the Bushies fall in line like good authoritarians (see John Dean's book on the subject, "Conservatives without Conscience")

4.) Supremacy of the Military: Even when there are widespread domestic problems, the military is given a disproportionate amount of government funding, and the domestic agenda is neglected.

N'Orleans never got rebuilt, Iraq costs $2 BILLION+ a week.

5.)Rampant Sexism: The governments of fascist nations tend to be almost exclusively male-dominated. Opposition to abortion is high, as is homophobia and anti-gay legislation and national policy.

Very big with the religious conservatives...who believe that women should find their Biblical place in the home as mothers and homemakers, subservient to men. (See the conservative "Quiverfull Movement")


6.)Controlled Mass Media: Sometimes the media is directly controlled by the government, but in other cases, the media is indirectly controlled by government regulation, or sympathetic media spokespeople and executives.

This has not been totally accomplished by the Bush Administration but they've made strides - Fox News, talk radio 'planted journalists' like Gannon, manipulated and leaked intelligence. The free press in America is one of the few checks remaining.

7.)Obsession with National Security: Fear is used as a motivational tool by the government over the masses.

Be afraid, the fear card was what got Bush reelected. Giuliani is taking the same tact.

8.)Religion and Government are Intertwined: Governments in fascist nations tend to use the most common religion in the nation as a tool to manipulate public opinion.

Totally true, born again president, faith based programs, pundits characterizing liberals as 'Godless', Republicans trying to 'take back America for Christ'... the endorsement of religious psuedo-science like "Intelligent Design"

9.)Corporate Power is Protected: The industrial and business aristocracy of a fascist nation often are the ones who put the government leaders into power, creating a mutually beneficial business/government relationship and power elite.

Of course, the rich get richer, poverty grows, the middle class is starving. The conservatives kept the min wage as low as possible as long as they could, while the war profiteers raked it in... with Haliburton moving off shore to inhibit fraud investigations and accountability

11.)Disdain for Intellectuals and the Arts: Fascist nations tend to promote and tolerate open hostility to higher education, and academia. It is not uncommon for professors and other academics to be censored or even arrested.

This goes to the well known Republican 'war on science', war on public funding for arts, PBS, etc... The distain for college education in general - it being labeled as 'indoctrination.' Scientists repeatedly and consistently being censored by the Bush Administration on a variety of topic

13.)Rampant Cronyism and Corruption: Fascist regimes almost always are governed by groups of friends and associates who appoint each other to government positions and use governmental power and authority to protect their friends from accountability.

Hence the GOP Culture of Corruption. Attorney firings,Plame leak, millions of 'lost' emails, crony war profiteering, Abramoff, Libby, Safavian, Cunningham, Foley, Ney, DeLay. Felon Abramoff had over 450 contacts with the White House, Bush says "I don't know him"

14.)Fraudulent Elections: Sometimes elections in fascist nations are a complete sham. Other times elections are manipulated by smear campaigns against or even assassination of opposition candidates, use of legislation to control voting numbers or political district boundaries, and manipulation of the media. Fascist nations also typically use their judiciaries to manipulate or control elections.

Conservative Supreme Court hands the presidency to GW Bush on a 4-3 decision

The reason this type of conservative religious authoritarianism has been able to flourish is that it preys upon the less informed, the less educated, and the most religious. The Republican constituency is formed by the upper 0.1% that successfully influence those most susceptible with general concepts like "God-less Liberals" ... "Moral Values" ... fear of "Mushroom clouds" and "we gotta fight ém over there or they'll follow us here". Simple and persuasive concepts designed to 'bottom feed' on the average and below average Americans. i.e. ...

It is a factual demographic statistic that Bush voters are fatter, whiter and less educated than Democratic voters.

4:46 PM, January 01, 2008  
Blogger Robert said...

Although I think both Slick Willy and Bushamundo are rather mediocre presidents (the former is a Turd and the latter is a Douche), Bruce Hayden's observation that the various forms of Socialism (communism, nazism, tranzies, etc) are based on designating a favored group as "more equal than" others is spot on.

Hmmm, I noticed that Mary hasn't responded to my post.

4:50 PM, January 01, 2008  
Blogger br549 said...

I shop for groceries at Wal Mart because it save me about $50.00 per week over groceries only stores. That leaves me more money to contribute to Republican candidates.

6:53 AM, January 02, 2008  
Blogger Evolouie said...

br549
Do you actually believe you save money by shopping at MAO-MART ?

The only thing happens when you shop at MAO-MART is that you support the the slave labor in third world countries, you support the greedy walton family and it's corporations that pays litterally no taxes and thus you pay higher taxes because they will not pay a living wage to american workers who then have to rely on government aid and yet, I bet you bitch about paying taxes.

Wake up and support american workers, not greedy bastards like the walton family.
C'mon where is all that patriotism you conservatives are always talking about.

8:42 AM, January 02, 2008  
Blogger SGT Ted said...

I love all the "reviews" on a book that hasn't been released yet. What a pack of liars and liberal fascists these trolling clowns are.

Quoting SadlyNo as a source isn't indicative of anything other than the quoters leftwing bias.

12:42 PM, January 02, 2008  
Blogger Kold_Kadavr_flatliner said...

Hoo-Ray!

Basically, Hillary just doesn’t have the bawls, Mike does; whether atheist or Catholic, doesn’t matter - you’re still gonna be Judged. Only 2 realms after death… and 1 of 'em ain’t very cool. My rock-solid, avant-garde, .357 mag trilogy has THE answer:

http://stores.lulu.com/fido

“A must read if youse wanna live” -Father Sarducci, SNL

1:18 PM, January 02, 2008  
Blogger br549 said...

evolouie, I thought you were done here. Is anything you people say the truth?

You just can't have a conversation about anything with anyone without making some sort of personal remark.

I haven't said much in this thread because you people aren't worth talking to.

4:40 PM, January 02, 2008  
Blogger serket said...

astanhope, at first I thought your Nazi/Liberal list was sarcastic. Some of the things you said about liberals are true, but some are not.

titushard - You obviously do not know Dr. Helen and you are displaying typical bigotry. Why do you want to change so bad?

evolouie - give an example where the MSM supported the President. Oh and who is your President? Do you have an example of election fraud?

cham - if there are too many deer I say cull the herd.

caved1ver - Here is a link with a brief overview of Wells's statement.

The NSA has engaged in domestic spying since 1947- do your research.

It seems like there was a big data mining program that would search the internet and phone calls during the Clinton Administration. Was it Able Danger? Or something else?

The left believes that homosexuality has a genetic basis w/o scientific evidence (apparently Darwin was wrong,) despite the fact that the phenomenon could be explained via the concept of “Congenital Sexual Dyslexia.”

Genetic tests among twins when one is gay, shows a higher percentage than for the general population. I think this shows that it is partly caused by genetics, but also proves it is not completely caused by genetics. Francis S Collins claims a 20% correlation among twins, wheareas in the general population it is about 3%. I have never heard of your dyslexia theory, but I have thought before that homosexuality is partially a genetic defect, perhaps that is the same thing.

6:11 PM, January 02, 2008  
Blogger SGT Ted said...

Only in Leftwingistan are gays hardwired genetically, but gender is a social construct.

These people are incoherent.

11:58 PM, January 02, 2008  
Blogger JIGGA said...

I also look forward to reading this book from what I hear it is well documented.

be SUre to check out my blog at http://www.thejiggaangle.blogspot.com

4:17 PM, June 27, 2008  
Blogger 徵信社robin said...

徵信社, 感情挽回, 挽回感情, 徵信, 徵信社, 徵信, 捉姦, 徵信公司, 通姦, 通姦罪, 抓姦, 抓猴, 捉猴, 捉姦, 監聽, 調查跟蹤, 反跟蹤, 外遇問題, 徵信, 捉姦, 女人徵信, 外遇問題, 女子徵信, 外遇, 徵信公司, 徵信網, 徵信, 徵信社, 外遇蒐證, 抓姦, 抓猴, 捉猴, 調查跟蹤, 反跟蹤, 感情挽回, 挽回感情, 外遇沖開, 徵信, 徵信, 徵信社, 抓姦, 徵信, 徵信社, 外遇, 外遇蒐證, 外遇, 通姦, 通姦罪, 贍養費, 徵信, 徵信社, 徵信社, 抓姦, 徵信社, 徵信社, 徵信, 徵信社, 徵信, 徵信, 徵信公司, 徵信社, 徵信, 徵信公司, 徵信社, 徵信社, 徵信社, 徵信社, 徵信社, 徵信, 徵信公司, 徵信社, 徵信, 徵信, 徵信公司, 徵信, 徵信社

11:57 AM, February 04, 2009  
Blogger 机器猫 said...

免費a片 a片 免費av 色情影片 情色 情色網 色情網站 色情 成人網 成人圖片 成人影片 18成人 av av女優 av av女優 情慾 走光 做愛 sex H漫 情色 情趣用品 情趣用品 情色 a片 a片 成人網站 成人影片 情趣用品 情趣用品 離婚 抓姦 外遇蒐證 外遇抓姦 アダルト アダルト アダルトサイト アダルトサイト 百家乐 轮盘 21点 德州扑克 百家乐系统 真人娱乐场 百家乐 足球 德州扑克 电子游戏 英格兰超级联赛 德国甲组联赛 意大利甲组联赛 西班牙甲组联赛 法国甲组联赛欧冠杯 英超 足球比分 足球彩票 体育彩票 即时比分

10:35 PM, February 24, 2009  
Blogger Happy New Year 2009! said...

室內設計,室內設計,室內設計,裝潢,室內設計,室內設計室內設計公司
,搬家公司,搬家公司,台北搬家公司,搬家公司,室內設計
這一家租屋網免費刊登不用錢耶
搬家公司,健身,茶葉A片,SEO,SEO,SEO,motel,led手電筒,棧板,二胎,隔熱紙,照明,健身,a383,a383,,二手家具,a383,胸章,車燈,
文山搬家
,兼職小姐,南港搬家,大安區搬家,松山搬家,中山區搬家,八里搬家,
五股搬家,
泰山搬家,大同區搬家,中正區搬家,士林搬家,萬華搬家,

台北搬家公司,台北搬家公司,客人,情趣用品,情趣用品,情趣用品,情趣用品,情趣用品,情趣用品,情趣用品,情趣用品,情趣用品,情趣用品,情趣用品,情趣用品,加油棒,台中搬家公司,台北市搬家公司,台北縣搬家公司

10:08 AM, March 13, 2009  
Blogger look said...

情趣用品,
性感睡衣,
免費視訊聊天,
視訊交友網,
美姬圖影,
情境坊歡愉用品,
花美姬情趣用品,
成人圖片,
臺灣情色網,
嘟嘟情人色網,
色情網站,
情境坊歡愉用品,
徵信,
徵信公司,
徵信,
外遇,
徵信,
徵信,
抓姦,
徵信,
外遇,
徵信,
徵信社,
徵信社,
抓姦,
徵信社,
徵信社,
徵信社,
,
,
整型,
視訊聊天,
視訊交友,
AV女優,
色情,
A片,
A片,
情趣用品,
情色,
A片,
色情影片,
情趣用品,
A片,
AV女優,
視訊聊天室,
聊天,
情趣用品,
情惑用品性易購,
情侶歡愉用品,
A片,
情趣,
情惑用品性易購,
辣妹視訊,
自慰套,
情侶歡愉用品,
寄情築園小遊戲,
aio交友愛情館,
美女視訊,
色情A片,
情趣用品,
徵信社,
情趣用品,
A片,
美女視訊,
色情A片,
AV女優,
A片,
辣妹視訊,
自慰套,
情侶歡愉用品,

2:22 PM, March 15, 2009  
Blogger mmbox said...

本土成人貼圖站大台灣情色網台灣男人幫論壇A圖網嘟嘟成人電影網火辣春夢貼圖網情色貼圖俱樂部台灣成人電影絲襪美腿樂園18美女貼圖區柔情聊天網707網愛聊天室聯盟台北69色情貼圖區38女孩情色網台灣映像館波波成人情色網站美女成人貼圖區無碼貼圖力量色妹妹性愛貼圖區日本女優貼圖網日本美少女貼圖區亞洲風暴情色貼圖網哈啦聊天室美少女自拍貼圖辣妹成人情色網台北女孩情色網辣手貼圖情色網AV無碼女優影片男女情色寫真貼圖a片天使俱樂部萍水相逢遊戲區平水相逢遊戲區免費視訊交友90739免費視訊聊天辣妹視訊 - 影音聊天網080視訊聊天室日本美女肛交美女工廠貼圖區百分百貼圖區亞洲成人電影情色網台灣本土自拍貼圖網麻辣貼圖情色網好色客成人圖片貼圖區711成人AV貼圖區台灣美女貼圖區筱萱成人論壇咪咪情色貼圖區momokoko同學會視訊kk272視訊情色文學小站成人情色貼圖區嘟嘟成人網嘟嘟情人色網 - 貼圖區免費色情a片下載台灣情色論壇成人影片分享免費視訊聊天區微風 成人 論壇kiss文學區taiwankiss文學區

9:55 AM, March 22, 2009  
Blogger mmbox said...

2008真情寫真aa片免費看捷克論壇微風論壇大眾論壇plus論壇080視訊聊天室情色視訊交友90739美女交友-成人聊天室色情小說做愛成人圖片區豆豆色情聊天室080豆豆聊天室 小辣妹影音交友網台中情人聊天室桃園星願聊天室高雄網友聊天室新中台灣聊天室中部網友聊天室嘉義之光聊天室基隆海岸聊天室中壢網友聊天室南台灣聊天室南部聊坊聊天室台南不夜城聊天室南部網友聊天室屏東網友聊天室台南網友聊天室屏東聊坊聊天室雲林網友聊天室大學生BBS聊天室網路學院聊天室屏東夜語聊天室孤男寡女聊天室一網情深聊天室心靈饗宴聊天室流星花園聊天室食色男女色情聊天室真愛宣言交友聊天室情人皇朝聊天室上班族成人聊天室上班族f1影音視訊聊天室哈雷視訊聊天室080影音視訊聊天室38不夜城聊天室援交聊天室080080哈啦聊天室台北已婚聊天室已婚廣場聊天室 夢幻家族聊天室摸摸扣扣同學會聊天室520情色聊天室QQ成人交友聊天室免費視訊網愛聊天室愛情公寓免費聊天室拉子性愛聊天室柔情網友聊天室哈啦影音交友網哈啦影音視訊聊天室櫻井莉亞三點全露寫真集123上班族聊天室尋夢園上班族聊天室成人聊天室上班族080上班族聊天室6k聊天室粉紅豆豆聊天室080豆豆聊天網新豆豆聊天室080聊天室免費音樂試聽流行音樂試聽免費aa片試看免費a長片線上看色情貼影片免費a長片

9:55 AM, March 22, 2009  
Blogger nini said...

85cc免費影城 愛情公寓正妹牆川藏第一美女 成人影片 情色交友網 美女視訊 美女視訊 視訊情人高雄網 JP成人影城 383成人影城 aa片免費a片下載 a片線上看aa片免費看 ※a片線上試看※sex520免費影片※ aa片免費看 BT成人論壇 金瓶影片交流區 自拍美女聊天室 aa片免費a片下載 SEX520免費影片 免費a片 日本美女寫真集 sex520aa免費影片 sex520aa免費影片 BT成人網 Hotsee免費視訊交友 百分百貼影片區 SEX520免費影片 免費視訊聊天室 情人視訊高雄網 星光情色討論版 正妹牆 383成人影城 線上85cc免費影城 85cc免費影城 85cc免費影城 85cc免費影城 ※免費視訊聊天室※ ※免費視訊聊天室※ 免費視訊聊天室 85cc免費影片 85cc免費影片 080苗栗人聊天室 080苗栗人聊天室 080中部人聊天室 080中部人聊天室 免費a片下載 免費a片 AA片免費看 aa片免費看 aa片免費看 aa片免費看 aa片免費看 日本av女優影片 av女優 av女優無碼影城 av女優 av女優 百分百成人圖片 百分百成人圖片 視訊情人高雄網 電話交友 影音電話交友 絕色影城 絕色影城 夜未眠成人影城 夜未眠成人影城 色咪咪影片網 色咪咪影片網 色咪咪影片網 色咪咪影片網 色咪咪影片網 免費色咪咪貼影片 免費色咪咪貼影片 色情遊戲 色情遊戲 色情遊戲 色情遊戲 影音視訊交友網 視訊交友網 080視訊聊天室 ※免費視訊聊天室※ ※免費視訊聊天室※ 視訊聊天室 成人影音視訊聊天室 ut影音視訊聊天室 ※免費視訊聊天室※ 視訊ukiss聊天室視訊ukiss聊天室 視訊交友90739 視訊交友90739 情人視訊網 168視訊美女 168視訊美女 168視訊美女 視訊美女館 視訊美女館 免費視訊美女網 小高聊天室 小高聊天室 aio交友聊天室 aio交友聊天室 交友聊天室 交友聊天室 線上a片 線上a片 線上a片 線上a片 線上a片 免費線上a片 免費線上a片 嘟嘟成人網站 成人漫畫 情色文學 嘟嘟成人網 成人貼圖區 情色文學成人小說 微風成人區 情色貼圖區 免費視訊聊天 免費成人圖片區 愛情公寓 愛情公寓聊天室 寄情築園小遊戲 免費aa片線上看 aa片免費看 情色SXE聊天室 SEX情色遊戲 色情A片 免費下載 av女優 俱樂部 情色論壇 辣妹視訊 情色貼圖網 免費色情 聊天室 情人視訊聊天室 免費a片成人影城 免費a片-aa片免費看 0204貼圖區 SEX情色 交友聊天-線上免費 女優天堂 成人交友網 成人情色貼圖區 18禁 -女優王國 080視訊美女聊天室 080視訊聊天室 視訊交友90739 免費a片 aio 視訊交友網 成人影城-免費a片※免費視訊聊天※85cc免費影片日本線上免費a片 免費色咪咪影片免費色咪咪影片aaa片免費看影片aaa片免費看成人影城免費色咪咪影片

6:29 AM, April 06, 2009  
Blogger 天天看正妹 said...

"免費視訊美女520sexy girl
sogo論壇aa片免費看
免費線上 aa 片試看85CC
情色18 禁sex520免費a長片
av女優影片情色文學
日本av淫蕩人妻免費漫畫帝國
777美女dvd無碼av女優
視訊辣妹girl5320 貼片貼圖區
本土自拍影片qq 美美色網漫畫
百分百成人圖片avdvd
視訊辣妹找援交
dodo豆豆聊天室
成人影片下載免費線上a片
sex999日本美女寫真集
色情漫畫777美女dvdav
小護士免費 aa 片試看
網路自拍美女聊天室天堂
080聊天網桃園天堂
雪之深戀 080聊天網水之浪漫
sex888入口免費性影片觀賞
高中生援交偷拍自拍限制級色情 片
aa 片試看免費卡通
百分百成人情色圖片
嘟嘟情人網影片
內衣模特兒寫真成人圖貼
免費視訊78論壇
拓網學生族視訊777美女
辣妹有約辣妹no31314視訊
dudu sex免費 aa 片試看
成人a影片論壇
"

2:49 AM, April 07, 2009  
Blogger 天天看正妹 said...

免費視訊聊天
ut聊天室辣妹視訊
kk777視訊俱樂部
UT影音視訊聊天室
吉澤明步
85cc免費影片
立花里子無碼
aaa片免費看短片
美女視訊
台南視訊,080情人網
日本免費視訊
aa片免費看
視訊網愛聊天室
影音視訊交友
咆哮小老鼠分享論壇
sex520免費影片
aio辣妺視訊
百事無碼a片
jp成人影片
免費av成人 情色
免費視訊美女色美眉部落格
168論壇視訊辣妹
免費色咪咪視訊網pc交友
s383視訊玩美女人
34c高雄視訊聊天
yam交友辣妹妹影音視訊聊天室
aaa俱樂部
jp成人
Show-live視訊聊天室
免費視訊辣妹
QQ美女視訊秀
live173影音視訊聊天室
真人視訊交友
辣妹妹影音視訊聊天室
倉井空免費影片
UT視訊美女交友
視訊美女 寫真
視訊情色網
亞洲東洋影片avdvd
ut聊天室kk俱樂部視訊
激情網愛聊天
秘密情人影音視訊網
av無碼,一夜情,偷拍,免費影片下載
色漫畫帝國sex888免費看影
拓網視訊交友
34c視訊網愛聊天室
xxx383美女寫真迷愛聊天
sex999免費影片兼職援交
辣妹視訊網
免費視訊78論壇
情色香港論壇
我愛78論壇情色情趣 商品
美女show-live視訊情色
美眉共和國080情人網
s383情色大網咖視訊
aaa免費看影片
kk777視訊俱樂部
小魔女影城
sexy diamond sex888入口
104免費成人情色文學小說
免費成人影片,g點
彩虹無碼av女優
成人免費視訊 完美女人
美女短片免費試看
tw33 影片交流
南台灣視訊網愛聊天室
sex888movie影城
18 禁亞洲名模瘋情
洪爺免費線上歐美A片段觀看
情人辣妹影片視訊直播
QQ美女視訊秀
hi5 tv免費影片sex貼片網
新浪視訊
日本視訊小魔女自拍
美女交友影音視訊聊天室
domain hilive.tv限制級
sex888免費看影片波霸美女寫真
love104影音live秀
甜心寶貝直播貼片自慰
捷克論壇
桃園援交小魔女自拍天堂
裸體高雄援交妹
gogo2sex桃園視訊妹
85cc情色視訊交友
視訊妹迷愛聊天
34c情人視訊網愛聊天室
南台灣視訊貓貓論壇
視訊美女
21sex美女視訊交友
34c美女寶貝視訊
免費a片線上觀看s383視訊
視訊交友90739,限制級,777美女dvd
免費成人影片,日本美女寫真集
080情人網,本土自拍貼圖
ut同志交友網
禁地論壇比基尼辣妹
dvd線上aa片免費看
show-live名模視訊
情人小魔女自拍
視訊自拍美女聊天室

2:49 AM, April 07, 2009  
Blogger 天天看正妹 said...

85cc免費影城aa的滿18歲影片85cc免費影片aaa免費看影片aaaaa片俱樂部影片免費 a 片85cc免費影片aa影片下載城微風成人av論壇免費a片aaa片免費看影片aaa片免費看短片小魔女免費影片免費視訊聊天 a片免費看a 免費影片觀賞免費視訊聊天室微風成人85cc免費影片85cc成人影城免費成人視訊亞洲禁果影城aa的滿18歲影片A片-sex女優王國aaaaa片俱樂部免費卡通影片線上觀看線上免費a片觀看A片-sex女優王國情色偷拍免費A片免費A片免費看 aa的滿18歲影片aaa影片下載城日本免費視訊av俱樂部後宮0204movie免費影片免費 a 片ut聊天室辣妹視訊情色美女視訊聊天室免費卡通影片線上觀看 ut交友成人視訊免費A片av1688影音視訊天堂aaa的滿18歲卡通影片s383情色大網咖視訊美女館aaaa 片俱樂部免費a片卡通aaaa片免費看影片aaa片免費看短片 杜蕾斯成人UT影音視訊聊天室 免費視訊78論壇免費aaaaa片俱樂部影片aaaa彩虹頻道免費影片aa影片下載城色漫畫帝國kk777視訊俱樂部美女視訊5278論壇ut聊天室aio交友愛情館免費視訊聊天成人a圖片區小說頻道彩虹頻道免費影片jp成人小魔女免費影城免費 aa 片試看情色文學A片-無碼援交東京熱一本道亞洲東洋影片gay片免費下載卡通aa片免費看成人影片分享小魔女免費影片視訊高雄情人聊天室34c卡通美女a片免費試看av免費影片,視訊聊天go2av免費影片情色 網站sex女優王國高中生援交偷拍自拍限制級色情 片plus論壇080情人網免費av影片免費a片卡通浪漫月光論壇免費aa片avdvd無碼影音視訊交友 免費視訊辣妹情人視訊網免費視訊辣妹 免費視訊78論壇台灣kiss情色貼圖區sex免費看影片彩虹論壇免費視訊聊天室 咆哮小老鼠分享論壇月宮貼圖色妹妹嘟嘟情人色網日本美女寫真集,kk視訊成人情色 視訊21sexsexy辣妹視訊百分百成人情色圖片ut辣妹哈啦視訊聊天室 素人自拍免費影片線上觀賞論壇男人的最愛中國性愛城avdvd無碼aaa免費看影片bt電影下載,免費成人片免費a片卡通dudu sex

2:49 AM, April 07, 2009  
Blogger 123456 said...

广州托盘复合托盘食品托盘天津木托盘胶合板托盘蜂窝纸托盘塑木托盘熏蒸木托盘木制托盘广东塑料托盘钢托盘钢制托盘栈板塑料栈板木栈板垫仓板托盘包装求购托盘天津托盘温州托盘山东托盘北京托盘上海木托盘塑胶托盘卡板纸卡板塑料卡板手推车推车机场手推车好孩子手推车液压手推车超市手推车医用手推车康贝手推车不锈钢手推车平板车电动平板车老虎车静音手推车平板手推车小推车模具架置物架堆垛架巧固架整理架物料整理架挂板架整理柜零件柜零件整理柜文件整理柜仓储笼仓库笼料箱塑料箱钢制料箱货箱整理箱塑料整理箱周转箱塑料周转箱防静电周转箱求购周转箱物流箱物料盒零件盒塑料零件盒卡板箱周转筐塑料周转筐周转箩登高车物流台车台车密集架档案密集架文件柜办公文件柜北京文件柜广州文件柜上海文件柜南京文件柜深圳文件柜钢制文件柜铁皮文件柜档案柜文件柜厂底图柜档案柜鞋柜储物柜更衣柜防火防磁柜防磁柜防火防磁文件柜图书架资料柜工具柜

7:36 AM, April 13, 2009  
Blogger 徵信 said...

外遇外遇外遇外遇外遇外遇外遇外遇外遇 外遇
外遇 外遇外遇 外遇 外遇
外遇 外遇 外遇
外遇


外遇 外遇
外遇
外遇 外遇外遇
外遇

外遇 外遇外遇 外遇 外遇 , 外遇 , 外遇 , 外遇 , 外遇 , 外遇 , 外遇 , 外遇 , 外遇 , 外遇 ,
外遇 外遇 外遇 , 外遇 , 外遇 , 外遇 , 外遇 , 外遇 , 外遇 , 外遇 , 外遇 , 外遇 , 外遇 , 外遇 , 外遇外遇 外遇外遇 外遇 外遇

外遇 外遇

外遇 , 外遇 , 外遇 , 外遇 , 外遇 , 外遇 , 外遇 , 外遇 , 外遇 , 外遇 , 外遇 , 外遇 , 外遇 , 外遇 , 外遇 , 外遇 , 外遇 , 外遇 , 外遇 , 外遇 , 外遇 , 外遇 , 外遇 , 外遇 , 外遇 , 外遇 , 外遇 , 外遇 , 外遇 , 外遇 , 外遇 , 外遇 , 外遇 , 外遇 , 外遇 , 外遇 , 外遇 , 外遇 , 外遇 , 外遇 , 外遇 , 外遇 , 外遇 , 外遇 , 外遇 , 外遇 , 外遇 , 外遇 , 外遇 , 外遇 , 外遇 , 外遇 , 外遇 , 外遇 , 外遇 , 外遇 , 外遇 , 外遇 , 外遇 , 外遇 , 外遇 , 外遇 , 外遇 , 外遇 , 外遇 , 外遇 , 外遇 , 外遇 , 外遇 , 外遇 , 外遇 , 外遇 , 外遇 , 外遇 , 外遇 , 外遇 , 外遇 , 外遇 , 外遇 , 外遇 , 外遇 , 外遇 , 外遇 , 外遇 , 外遇 , 外遇 , 外遇 , 外遇 , 外遇 , 外遇 , 外遇 , 外遇 , 外遇 , 外遇 , 外遇 , 外遇 , 外遇 , 外遇 , 外遇 , 外遇 , 外遇 , 外遇 , 外遇 , 外遇 , 外遇 , 外遇 , 外遇 , 外遇 , 外遇 , 外遇 , 外遇 , 外遇 , 外遇 , 外遇 , 外遇 , 外遇 , 外遇 , 外遇 , 外遇 , 外遇 , 外遇 , 外遇 , 外遇 , 外遇 , 外遇 , 外遇 , 外遇 , 外遇 , 外遇 , 外遇 , 外遇 , 外遇 , 外遇 , 外遇 , 外遇 , 外遇 , 外遇 , 外遇 , 外遇 , 外遇 , 外遇 , 外遇 , 外遇 , 外遇 , 外遇 , 外遇 , 外遇 , 外遇 , 外遇 , 外遇 , 外遇 , 外遇 , 外遇 , 外遇 , 外遇 , 外遇 , 外遇 , 外遇 , 外遇 , 外遇 , 外遇 , 外遇 , 外遇 , 外遇 , 外遇 , 外遇 , 外遇 , 外遇 , 外遇 , 外遇 , 外遇 , 外遇 , 外遇 , 外遇 , 外遇 , 外遇 , 外遇 , 外遇 , 外遇 , 外遇 , 外遇 , 外遇 , 外遇 , 外遇 , 外遇 , 外遇 , 外遇 , 外遇 , 外遇 , 外遇 , 外遇 , 外遇 , 外遇 , 外遇 , 外遇 , 外遇 , 外遇 , 外遇 , 外遇 , 外遇 , 外遇 , 外遇 , 外遇 , 外遇 , 外遇 , 外遇 , 外遇 , 外遇 , 外遇 , 外遇 , 外遇 , 外遇 , 外遇 , 外遇 , 外遇 , 外遇 , 外遇 , 外遇 , 外遇 , 外遇 , 外遇 , 外遇 , 外遇 , 外遇 , 外遇 , 外遇 , 外遇 , 外遇 , 外遇 , 外遇 , 外遇 , 外遇 , 外遇 , 外遇 , 外遇 , 外遇 , 外遇 , 外遇 , 外遇 , 外遇 , 外遇 , 外遇 , 外遇 , 外遇 , 外遇 , 外遇 , 外遇 , 外遇 , 外遇 , 外遇 , 外遇 , 外遇 , 外遇 , 外遇 , 外遇 , 外遇 , 外遇 , 外遇 , 外遇 , 外遇 , 外遇 , 外遇 , 外遇 , 外遇 , 外遇 , 外遇 , 外遇 , 外遇 , 外遇 , 外遇 , 外遇 , 外遇 , 外遇 , 外遇 , 外遇 , 外遇 , 外遇 , 外遇 , 外遇 , 外遇 , 外遇 , 外遇 , 外遇 , 外遇 , 外遇 , 外遇 , 外遇 , 外遇 , 外遇 , 外遇 , 外遇 , 外遇 , 外遇 , 外遇 , 外遇 , 外遇 , 外遇 , 外遇 , 外遇 , 外遇 , 外遇 , 外遇 , 外遇 , 外遇 , 外遇 , 外遇 , 外遇 , 外遇 , 外遇 , 外遇 , 外遇 , 外遇 , 外遇 , 外遇 , 外遇 , 外遇 , 外遇 , 外遇 , 外遇 , 外遇 , 外遇 , 外遇 , 外遇 , 外遇 , 外遇 , 外遇 , 外遇 , 外遇 , 外遇劈腿劈腿劈腿劈腿劈腿劈腿劈腿劈腿喜帖囍帖卡片外遇外遇 外遇 外遇外遇 外遇
外遇 外遇 外遇 外遇剖析 外遇調查 外遇案例 外遇諮詢 偷情 第三者外遇話題 外遇發洩 感情挽回 徵信社 外遇心態 外遇 通姦 通姦罪 外遇徵信社徵信社外遇 外遇 抓姦徵信協會徵信公司 包二奶 徵信社 徵信 徵信社 徵信社 徵信社 徵信社 徵信 徵信 婚姻 婚前徵信 前科 個人資料 外遇 第三者 徵信社 偵探社 抓姦 偵探社 偵探社婚 偵探社 偵探社偵探家事服務家事服務家電維修家事服務家事服務家事服務家事服務家事服務持久持久持久持久持久持久持久離婚網頁設計徵信社徵信社徵信徵信社外遇離婚協議書劈腿持久持久持久持久持久劈腿剖析徵信徵信社外遇外遇外遇外遇徵信社徵信社徵信社徵信社徵信社徵信社徵信徵信社徵信徵信徵信徵信徵信徵信徵信徵信徵信徵信徵信徵信徵信徵信徵信徵信徵信徵信徵信徵信徵信徵信徵信徵信社徵信社徵信社徵信社徵信社徵信社徵信社徵信社徵信公會 徵信公會 徵信公會 徵信公會 徵信公會 徵信公會 徵信公會 徵信公會 徵信公會 徵信公會 徵信公會 徵信公會 徵信公會 徵信公會 徵信公會 徵信公會 徵信公會 徵信公會 徵信公會 徵信公會 徵信公會 徵信公會 徵信公會 徵信公會 徵信公會 徵信公會 徵信公會 徵信公會 徵信公會 徵信公會 徵信公會 徵信公會 徵信公會 徵信公會 徵信公會 徵信協會 徵信協會 徵信協會 徵信協會 徵信協會 徵信協會 徵信協會 徵信協會 徵信協會 徵信協會 徵信協會 徵信協會 徵信協會 徵信協會 徵信協會 徵信協會 徵信協會 徵信協會 徵信協會 徵信協會 徵信協會 徵信協會 徵信協會 徵信協會 徵信協會 徵信協會 徵信協會 徵信協會 徵信協會 徵信協會 徵信協會 徵信協會 徵信協會 徵信協會 徵信協會 徵信協會 徵信協會 徵信協會 徵信公會 徵信協會 徵信協會 徵信協會 徵信協會 徵信協會 徵信協會 徵信協會 徵信公會 徵信協會 徵信協會 徵信協會 徵信協會 徵信協會 徵信協會 徵信協會 徵信協會 徵信協會 徵信協會 徵信協會 徵信協會 徵信協會 徵信協會 徵信協會 徵信協會 劈腿 劈腿 劈腿 劈腿 劈腿 劈腿 劈腿 劈腿 劈腿 劈腿 劈腿 劈腿 劈腿 劈腿

4:55 AM, April 21, 2009  
Blogger 9988 said...

080中部人聊天室ut080聊天室080苗栗人聊天室080視訊聊天室18成人網080聊天網007色情貼圖網080 聊天室18成人avooo080視訊辣妹聊天室18禁地少女遊戲6k聊天室aaaaa片俱樂部a383成人影城a383girl影音城383洪爺影城69成人聊天室383成人影城999成人情色論壇383成人論壇777成人論壇4u成人論壇85cc免費影城383成人影城-免費a片aaaaa片俱樂部影片85cc免費影片38ga成人aa免費看aa的滿18歲影片av女優報報aa影片下載城aio交友愛情館aaa片免費看短片av成人網AV女優王國aa免費看aaaa片免費看影片BT成人論壇av1688影音娛樂網癡漢論壇男人色色網熊貓成人圖片痴漢俱樂部男人幫論壇男人百分百貼圖區甜心寶貝直播維克斯討論區線上免費a片米克成人情色論壇絕色成人影城線上卡通a片線上a片下載線上 a片線上色咪咪影片網愛俱樂部金瓶影片交流區聊天室尋夢園美女交友聊天室遊戲天堂美女交友 網站dodo成人聊天室自拍盜攝館色情小說色色網 視訊交友色色網-免費視訊色情視訊聊天室色情豆豆聊天室蜜雪兒免費小說視訊聊天室視訊美女34c萍水相逢遊戲區視訊美女視訊聊天交友視訊美女館視訊美女ggoo麗的線上小遊戲辣妹視訊豆豆交友聊天室視訊交友高雄網視訊交友網視訊情人高雄網辣妹聊天室hi5 tv免費成人影片kiss文學區hilive tv免費電影tw18台灣18成人網sogo論壇showlive影音聊天網sex383線上娛樂場plus論壇p2pQQ美美色網sex520免費影片watchshow情色視訊聊天室免費av18禁影片免費ava片線上看免費av18禁做愛視訊免費a片免費視訊-童顏巨乳免費視訊妹妹聊天室免費視訊聊天室免費視訊聊天免費視訊辣妹八國聯軍成人論壇凱渥名模寫真集免費交友聊天室南部人聊天室台北69情色貼圖區台灣kiss色情貼圖台灣成人網嘟嘟情人色網嘟嘟成人聊天室夜未眠成人影城咆嘯小老鼠 成人影片論壇嗆辣妹影音視訊聊天小莉影像館小魔女拍自天堂小老鼠分享論壇小魔女自拍天堂寄情築園小遊戲尋夢園成人視訊聊天室微風 成人論壇微風成人 影片區後宮電影院入口影音視訊交友網巨乳辣妹寫真視訊情色文章情色小站情色圖貼情色典獄長情色交友網情人視訊聊天室成人免費視訊聊天成人聊天室成人話題聊天室成人影城成人情色小說成人影片區搜樂論壇新豆豆聊天室成人交友歐美模特兒寫真曼雪兒免費小說櫻桃不夜城情色論壇本土自拍寫真浪漫月光論壇洪爺免費影城洪爺色情電影一葉晴成人論壇一夜情聊天室上班族1對1視訊亞洲成人圖片區伊利論壇伊莉成人討論區交友聊天室激情成人網愛聊天室亞洲情色視訊交友sexdiy影城aaaaa片俱樂部影片正妹交友ggoo正妹視訊gogokk777視訊俱樂部

11:35 AM, May 05, 2009  
Blogger 1314 said...

視訊做愛視訊美女無碼A片情色影劇kyo成人動漫tt1069同志交友網ut同志交友網微風成人論壇6k聊天室日本 avdvd 介紹免費觀賞UT視訊美女交友..........................

11:46 PM, May 19, 2009  
Blogger 1122 said...

情色視訊台灣kiss情色文學彩虹性愛巴士情色交友情色論壇聊天室ut情色網麗的情色小遊戲台灣情色網情色遊戲情色小遊戲情色小站情色影片情色貼片金瓶梅影片交流情色漫畫38ga免費a片情色文章情色圖貼天堂情色網情色網站情色自拍情色圖片

3:46 AM, June 08, 2009  

Post a Comment

<< Home