Monday, July 17, 2006

Podcast on Fat Kids (excuse me, kids at risk for overweight) and Beer


It’s a podcast on the fly today using our new digital recorder. Today we are talking about food and beer: are we getting too much or too little? First, we stop in at the Downtown Grill and Brewery for lunch and we interview two guys who have the best jobs in Knoxville: brewing beer. We talk to the master brewer about how he took his beer brewing from a hobby to a successful career and with his apprentice about how he turned his chemistry studies into a cool job. As for being a beer brewer--no college degree is required--maybe this is where all the guys are instead of college.

Next, we stop in and talk with Dr. Michael Zemel, director of the Nutrition Institute at the University of Tennessee and author of The Calcium Key : The Revolutionary Diet Discovery That Will Help You Lose Weight Faster. You may have heard of Dr. Zemel’s research on calcium that shows you can drink yourself skinny with milk. We’ll talk to him about a very important problem in this country: obesity in children. If you are a parent and have an overweight or chubby kid, you may want to listen to Dr. Zemel's moderate approach to dealing with overweight kids. You can get more information on overweight kids at www.americaonthemove.org.

You can subscribe via iTunes by clicking here. If you'd rather, you can download the file directly here, or get a lo-fi version for dialup here. And don't miss our archive of previous podcasts at GlennandHelenShow.com.

Music is by The Opposable Thumbs.

42 Comments:

Anonymous Anonymous said...

Another factor in the obesity epidemic, from an economic perspective, is that the real (i.e. inflation adjusted) price of food has been decreasing for years. As with everything else, as the price falls, quantity demanded increases and this explains partly the increase in obesity rates.

10:08 AM, July 17, 2006  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Only an American would have the gall to suggest a decrease in the price of food is a bad thing.

11:00 AM, July 17, 2006  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

"Only an American would have the gall to suggest a decrease in the price of food is a bad thing."

No one said that it was a good or bad thing, it just simply is a fact. If food had a price of zero, we would expect more food to be eaten, all else equal, which may lead to more obesity. Simple positive economic analysis, that's all.

11:23 AM, July 17, 2006  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Glenn looks younger without his glasses.

1:07 PM, July 17, 2006  
Blogger Mel said...

Only Eurotrash would toss out flamebait generically linking America, chutzpah, and fatness.

Re: the decrease in the real price of food and its impact on obesity, another factor to consider is the relative scarcity most people have seen growing up. My grandmother lived through the Depression; she's so thrifty, she still saves plastic wrap off of meat packages (she washes and dries it like a dish). As a result, it was a near sin to not eat every last bit of food. I'm not just talking about finishing your plate, I mean if there's a half a potato and sauerkraut left over, it went into the fridge, and on fridge cleanout day, that crap got eaten. It was never a problem when I was a child, but it ingrained the habit into me so that when I hit 30, my weight started gaining without my doing anything different. I had to relearn how to feel hungry, and (even tougher) start controlling portion size, and (toughest) cut the string and just chuck the stuff. Yeah, it's a tragedy that people halfway across the world are starving, but I didn't take the food off of their plate, and my eating the last bit of ricotta won't make the bum at the bus station feel better about his place in the world.

2:30 PM, July 17, 2006  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Only Eurotrash would toss out flamebait generically linking America, chutzpah, and fatness.

Actually, the entire world does.

*oink*

2:57 PM, July 17, 2006  
Blogger Rick said...

all the comments are about weight - not Beer - interesting.

Talking weight loss makes people cranky and talking beer makes them happy - I conclude people want to be cranky.

I've listened to probably 3 or 4 of these podcasts over the last couple months - seems to be getting better - better sound - better discussions.

3:24 PM, July 17, 2006  
Blogger Rick said...

This comment has been removed by a blog administrator.

3:25 PM, July 17, 2006  
Anonymous Frurl the Fern Tamer said...

First: The so called "simple positive economic analisys" forgets to take into account such simple concepts as elasticity of demand and the law of diminishing marginal utility. What do they teach in Econ 101 this days? Don't they still use hamburgers as the perfect example to explain diminishing marginal utility?

Second: Mr Mel assuming automatically and without any proof that anyone that makes a comment critical of the US has to be "Eurotrash" only demonstrates your own bigotry. The person that made that comment could be from anywhere in the world. In fact he could ,novel idea for you, even be an American.

5:41 PM, July 17, 2006  
Blogger Mercurior said...

yet another, diet, remember the cabbage diet,that would lose you friends. the juice diet, the soup diet, the grapefruit diet, the 3 day diet

http://www.webterrace.com/fad/home.htm now milk diet.

food is cheaper, but then they are pumped full of additives, etc.. to make them even cheaper, and so more profit for the companies.

if you can have 100 hamburgers, for $100, but if you add 25% of crap, you can stretch those burgers out for a minimal outlay.. so 125 burgers for $110.. and so on.. water, fat, gristle, etc etc etc.. all expand the profit margins of the companies..

6:24 PM, July 17, 2006  
Anonymous Anon824 said...

Glenn looks younger without MY glasses.

6:31 PM, July 17, 2006  
Anonymous Serket said...

Hasn't the milk diet for losing weight been disproven?

6:52 PM, July 17, 2006  
Blogger Reject the Koolaid said...

Hasn't anyone noticed that fat kids almost always have fat parents?

Unfortunately that would seem to make it extremely difficult for them to lose weight especially when you're not talking 10 pounds toheavy but 50 pounds too heavy.

Really what can you do for a kid who's growing up in a household where the parents don't care?

I'd better listen to the podcast and see if this gets discussed.

7:18 PM, July 17, 2006  
Blogger Reject the Koolaid said...

Ok, I'm listening as I type. Skipped the beer stuff and went on to fat kids because that's what I'm interested in.

But it's not about fat kids. It's about everything, fat adults, calcium diets, etc., etc. You guys need to stay focussed.

7:50 PM, July 17, 2006  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Uggh! I hate this diet obsessed American crap! How crazy is it that Americans feel compelled to read about a a "great new diet" every six months because we lack the simple knowledge of how to cook a healthy meal?

I'm certainly not buying into the "drink myself skinny" frenzy when dairy cows in U.S. industrial farms are simply sick animals who are forced to deliver us sick milk.

11:17 PM, July 17, 2006  
Blogger joeschmo1of3 said...

How about we talk about beer? Did you know that the darker the beer, the fewer calories it has? That's right! That cheap, tasteless beer they sell as "light" beer has only 10 calories fewer than a Guiness Stout. A pint o' Guiness is only 120 calories. Less than a can of coke. That's because the lighter the beer (except for the filtered light stuff), the more sugar it has from brewing process. So, if you want to lose weight, but don't want to give up your adult beverage, drink darker beer. As for me, give me a Newcastle!

2:03 AM, July 18, 2006  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

I enjoyed the second half of the podcast (skipped the first half -- I don't drink beer).

Here's an issue I would hear Helen's opinion on, because it's psychological in nature. First, if you are 200 lbs. and get maximum health benefits by getting down to just 180, you're not going to feel a whole lot better about how you look in a new pair of pants, I don't think. Health is all well and good but we're acclimated to the level we have, whereas shopping for new clothes is an ever-renewed pain. I've established a steady exercise routine for over 6 months and lost 5 lbs, but I don't feel the payoff is worth celebrating. I suspect people launch gradiose health plans because moderation isn't very ... satisfiying.

One other thought -- I've never done that crash diet thing, but wouldn't a succession of crash diets better approximate our hunter-gatherer feast and famine cycles?

2:44 AM, July 18, 2006  
Blogger Mercurior said...

but its been shown that the famine and feast cycles, do cause weight gain, you lose weight in famines, but the body says hey we need more food if theres going to be more famines, so we will metabolise it as fat and increase the hunger in the not so lean times, so we wont die. so you would gain weight, as all the studies of diets say, (there are some people where it will remain off).

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dieting#Yo-yo_dieting

The human body responds to starvation by decreasing metabolism. When food is again available, it is stored immediately as fat. This survival mechanism, while a useful response to genuine food scarcity, leaves the yo-yo dieter feeling lethargic and fatigued (and defeated).**


While anyone can lose weight by fasting (temporarily stopping one's food intake), it is a dangerous practice. When concentration camp survivors, who involuntarily suffered famine as a result of horrendous living conditions, were examined by doctors, what little weight they had was mostly fat, with practically no muscle.

The muscle loss is partly due to the fact that the brain cannot rely completely on fat for fuel. The brain usually reserves ketones for lipid synthesis but will use ketones (from fat) for some energy once levels rise during carbohydrate shortages or starvation, but it must get at least 15 percent of its energy from glucose, and it takes a much greater percentage than this early in a fast before the switch to ketones for most energy needs. Glucose can only be synthesized from proteins, glycerol and carbohydrates.
The body stores carbohydrates as glycogen in the muscles and the liver; glycogen is used to make glucose. Glycogen stores (from carbohydrates) can only last a couple days (during starvation). (In fact, marathon runners experience a shortage of easily-available glycogen after only 2 hours, commonly called "hitting the wall" or bonking.)

Because fasts, very low calorie diets (VLCD), and low-carbohydrate diets restrict the intake of carbohydrates, glucose must be obtained from protein. In the event dietary protein is insufficient, internal sources will be obtained: autolysis and muscle wasting occurs. (The conversion of amino acids to glucose is called gluconeogenesis.)

Dieting, especially extreme food-intake reduction, can have the following side effects:

Prolonged hunger,Depression Reduced sex drive ,Fatigue Irritability ,Fainting
Sinus problems (especially post-nasal drip) ,Muscle loss ,Rashes
Acidosis ,Bloodshot eyes. (plus the psycholigical problems that may be engendered)

5:23 AM, July 18, 2006  
Anonymous the fat man cometh said...

http://www.any-body.org/ check this out, its very interesting.

5:24 AM, July 18, 2006  
Blogger Oligonicella said...

Anonymous 11:17

Provide supportive evidence. I live next to a diary farm. No sick cows there. In fact, he grazes them outside and they come in on their own for milking. Also, define "sick milk". Bland assertions mean nothing except venue.

8:21 AM, July 18, 2006  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Oligonicella,

Oh, it seems like you live next to a lovely farm with pasture-raised cows! I would gladly drink the milk from that farm. I would also gladly eat cattle raised on a farm like that!

Off to work, so I don't have time to explain "sick cows" or "sick milk" but if you are interested, I think Michael Pollan can say it better than I can, although this interview is more about the beef industry, but certainly applies to the corn-fed/industrial dairy system which is terrible for a cow's digestive system and overall health. That's why cow's need so many antibiotics - they are constantly sick!

9:22 AM, July 18, 2006  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

/www2.math.uic.edu/~takata/some_articles
/FreshAir_Michael_Pollon_on_beef_
industry,_hormones,_antibiotics.html

Sorry, I don't know how to post such a long link!

9:24 AM, July 18, 2006  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

If folks want to be fat and sedentary, that's their choice. So are the consequences.

9:53 AM, July 19, 2006  
Blogger Oligonicella said...

Anon - 9:24

Uh, yes and no. While I live next to those, I'm in the middle of cow country. None of the farms use corn feeding. Grain, yes. That only means grass, by the way, not corn. Sorghum is the bulk and it's inedible to humans. It also grows where wheat and corn do not.

Also, keep in mind Pollon was writing a scare book to "feed" to the public. As such, he uses hyperbole.

Drive around the countryside -- yourself, don't rely on a book. Notice those huge round rolls? Grass with a mix of other natural plants. You know, a balanced diet. Not hay, hay is dead stalk of wheat with virtually no nutrition because the other parts to elsewhere. Hence, his accuracy in stating "If you were feeding an equivalent amount of hay, the sheer bulk of it would overwhelm you." This is not true of bulk grass. It's not as calorie intensive as corn, but it's healthier and about as cheap.

While there may be some processers who work in the manner the interview -- on Fresh Air, remember -- indicates, it by no means works across the entire industry that way.

The concentration of the cattle to one point is a necessity. Otherwise, you would have slaughter houses strewn across the countryside and the need for more expensive transport, raising prices.

The ultimate determinator is price. The price you the consumer is willing to pay. A slaughter cow will gross $600+ for the farmer. Then you take out expenses.

10:15 AM, July 19, 2006  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Oligonicella,

Do you live around a ton of "pasture-raised" farms? Or could this be an example of the lives of young cows and steers, who do live there lives on ideal grassy plains and knolls before being shipped off to industrial farms to fatten up on corn and fatty animal pellets and lounge around in their feces?

I spent a lot of time in farm country as a girl, which is one reason this interests me so much. My cousins are Mennonite and have a traditional farm. However, the traditional farm is becoming more and more rare as industrial farming is greatly subsidized. This is why industrial farms "get by" and small farms are in for a fight to survive overregulation and competion with the subsidized industrial farmers.

And grass is not a grain, no?

If there is anything specific that is a nontruth or exaggerated in Michael's work, I'd be interested in your perspective.

8:08 AM, July 20, 2006  
Blogger Oligonicella said...

I live around a "ton" of forage raised farms. USDA figures put forage at 75+% of feed in the life of cattle. Most cows spend the bulk of thier lives on grassy plains and knolls. Toward the slaughter (which is typically month 20), they are sold and shipped. Yes, they are marblized (fattened) so city people will buy the meat. Go Google on "cattle + feed + percentage + grain". Many university studies. You'll have some 1.4 million entries to check.

As a farm girl, you should know full well that cattle stand around in their own feces in the fields too. It is counter-productive to judge farm (small or large) with city sensibilities, as most of those dwellers find cow crap offensive regardless of the quantity. On that point, most of the cattle raised in Mo are on small farms. Even large farms (1000+ acres) segregate the cattle into smaller groups for control. I'm quite sure Wy does it differently, they have a different landscape.

Yes. All grasses are cereals, all cereals are grain, even the stuff in your front yard. Hmm. Makes it easy to say "grain fed", don't it?

On that note, let me redact. I used a colloquial before. Hay is frequently used here (SoMo) as I mentioned. In the dictionary, it merely refers to grass, so I'll presume Pollon (don't know him well enough to call him Micheal) used it that way as well. Even giving him that, his statement about being overwelmed using hay is hyperbole.

Recall the drought in Texas and Oklahoma several years ago, where ranchers in Ks, Mo, Il, etc shipped feed to them to keep their cattle alive? Were corn cheaper, corn would have been shipped. It was grass that was shipped.

Pollon had a book to sell. You don't get sales by saying "not much wrong here".

9:44 AM, July 20, 2006  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

All the Pollon bashers must live on another planet. I've lived in a lot of place, in many parts of the country -both city and rural, and in each case the local farms and cattle ranches were being decimated - disappearing to make way for huge housing developments. Those that were left, were in areas that were troubled by pollution -as in contamination due to runoff of animal feces and huge amounts of nitrogen based fertilizers that got into the local streams, and underground wells (groundwater). It was my profession to know all these things. Free Range Farms???? What Planet do YOU live on??? The only remaining farms that I see were either small local -just surviving - or huge Commercial Farms with crops of GMO corn and GMO soy. My point being that there are rapidly dwindling numbers of FREE-RANGE-Grassy-Plains-And-Knolls cattle ranches/farms, and a growing number of "commercial animal factories". The difference is that the animals are kept in a very contained small area and fed "grains" instead of grazing - and they start feeding this way from the beginning. The open grazing stage is all but eliminated. If I remember correctly, many of the cattle were imported (Canada?) where there are still some grazing farms left - and then they were sold to these animal factories for fattening up (on hell knows what? GMO crap and pellets made from other-animal-body-parts! Hello - which is why there is an epidemic of Mad Cow. And if you are in denial that we have a Mad Cow Disease problem -then YOU can eat the beef and let your brain turn to swiss cheese! Enjoy! As for me if I were a big beef consumer I would(as many of my neighbors have done)? I would go and SEEK out a "local grazing farm", if you can find one in your area... find out how their cattle is raised, and then only buy from them if their cattle is fed natural grass or non-GMO feed. Pick a cow, have it dressed by a local butcher, share the meat with your neighbors or family. It is becoming almost as popular to do this as Co-op/ "Subscription" Farming. So if the USDA doesn't take an active role in protecting our food supply then we need to become more pro-active on our own. Yes I DO eat beef - but I know EXACTLY where it's coming from! If USDA or other governing body actually forced these cattle ranchers/ associations to implement a very in-expensive test on ALL cows - it would be no surprise as to how many sick cows that actually make it to the slaughterhouses and to our local supermarkets! )

Whoever wrote "..drive around the country ... notice those Grassy Hills?..." well hello! I don't know what freaking planet you live on... but those beautiful Grassy Hills that once were???... are now owned by huge developers - and thousands of $500k+ homes clutter those grassy hills.."
Whoever thinks there are still Non-GMO, non-industrial farms left??? Get a Grip. Get Real!

3:05 PM, July 21, 2006  
Blogger Oligonicella said...

And the last resort of ill-reason is -- hysterionics.

"All the Pollon bashers must live on another planet."
So much for "I'd be interested in your perspective.".

"...epidemic of Mad Cow."
Interesting. http://www.hcra.harvard.edu/pdf/madcow.pdf -- "A landmark study shows the risk of BSE occurring in the US to be extremely low."

Whoever wrote "..drive around the country ... notice those Grassy Hills?..." well hello! I don't know what freaking planet you live on... but those beautiful Grassy Hills that once were???... are now owned by huge developers - and thousands of $500k+ homes clutter those grassy hills.."

Don't misquote me when it's so easy to simply look up the comment page. What I said was "Drive around the countryside -- yourself, don't rely on a book. Notice those huge round rolls?" You can take a picture if you like. You'll find a 100 acre farm with rolls of harvested forage one mile north of the intersection of Hwy W and Hwy 14, south of Mountain Grove, Mo. If you want even more, simply turn West on 14 and proceed for the next 34 miles until Ava. All along the way you will see said rolls of forage. Forage, what cattle are fed 75+ of their life, according to university studies.

I happen to live 30+ miles away from the nearest town. All three, actually. Located between those towns are grassy plains and knolls and wooded forests, primarily red oak, but with pine, maple, sassafrass and other very healthy trees. No huge developers own them. They are private land and Mark Twain Forest.

"Whoever thinks there are still Non-GMO, non-industrial farms left??? Get a Grip. Get Real!"
Since I actually, currently live there, that would be me.

"... huge amounts of nitrogen based fertilizers that got into the local streams..."
Actually, no again. Farmers are required to take courses in fertilizer and pesticide application in order to handle the volumes they do. They are also driven by the economic factor to apply only that which is needed, reducing run-off to amounts far less than those yielded by cities, notably parks and golf courses. On top of that, they rely on GPS and satellite UV photography downloaded from the Internet to spot those areas which actually need the fertilizers, thereby avoiding unnecessary spreading of same.

To any and all still reading this little exchange, note where facts are linked to from and the hyperbole and ad hominum originate. The last thing I have to say to those reading is, go and research on the net yourself. In no way rely upon what I or anyone else tells you. There is plenty of material produced by Ag departments of U's and the USDA available.

Ta, ta. Over and out.

4:24 PM, July 21, 2006  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Oligonicella,

Hmmm... the anonymous who most recently responded is a different anonymous! Such is the problem of going by "anonymous"! ;) Shall we call him/her anonymous II?

Anyhoo, it's been taking me a bit of time to respond because, well, I have a job and dishes to do on the weekend, and I'd like to take a look at some of the info that you mentioned.

But I'd like to address a few things.

1. Animal poo is great when it's used as a natural fertilizer. Otherwise, this poo can turn into unsanitary manure swamps in the feeding lots.

2. I still question whether those farms that you see in your neck of the woods are just pre-feedlot or pre-factory-dairy farms who will eventually live on a life of grain vs. the green stuff they graze on.

3. I think it's great that i can hear another perspective besides Michael Pollen. I think listening to mulitiple perspectives is the only way to come to one's own independent thoughts. This is why i take the views and backgrounds of both Republicans and Democrats seriously. Likewise, Olig (if I can call you that) why not read Michael Pollen's book "ominvore's dilemma" so you have a deeper understanding of his point of view? I know he has a book to sell, but so does everyone, on some level or another (the FDA, industrial farmers, mega-food businesses, and etc.)

Thanks for sharing your background and perspectives. I appreciate it!

Anonymous I, aka "Alison"

1:41 PM, July 23, 2006  
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