Friday, April 07, 2006

More Female Abusers in the News

Thanks to desert light journal for pointing out these two interesting articles--one from Time.com on female pedophiles and the other at CNN.com about men who have been abused by women. When I read the latter article which states "it was hard to believe the three men's story: that they were victims of physical abuse at the hands of their female partners," all I could think was, is this really surprising news anymore? I guess it is to CNN.

45 Comments:

Anonymous Anonymous said...

Helen,

What is it about the story that makes you think CNN is surprised?

You just posted an item about a coach who died of arrythmia. Is it valid to say you are surprised young and seemingly healthy people die of arrythmia?

Is it possible for either you or CNN to post items for reasons other than surprise?

4:50 PM, April 07, 2006  
Blogger Mercurior said...

theres some figures that say 1 in 4 women are victims of domestic violence, but 1 in 6 men are as well.. but you never hear these stories, but if you look you will see more and more women acting like the so called beasts that men were. i am not surprised that men are coming forward they have had enough. they are sick and tired of all this hypocrisy, and just imagine how many doesnt get spoken about as men are supposed to be real men and take it, that men who do get abused are somehow losers, or somehow deserve it.

5:03 PM, April 07, 2006  
Blogger Helen said...

anonymous,

When a story starts with, "It is hard to believe...it indicates suprise--domestic abuse against men is old (but ignored) news. I do appreciate CNN having an article about an ignored topic, however.

And actually, no I am not surprised that seemingly healthy people die of arrythmia, it is more common than people think with 930 Americans dying each day according to the American Heart Association--"About 335,000 people a year die of coronary heart disease without being hospitalized or admitted to an emergency room. That's about half of all deaths from CHD — more than 930 Americans each day. Most of these are sudden deaths caused by cardiac arrest."

5:06 PM, April 07, 2006  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Mercurior,

Who says men are supposed to be real men and take it? I'd suggest any spouse in such a situation leave and get a divorce.

5:20 PM, April 07, 2006  
Blogger Dave said...

Well, both young people dying of heart attacks and women abusing men is surprising to me.

But then I have not paid attention to these issues. Upon reading about these news items, it occurs to me that it shouldn't be a surprise. These issues are just issues which I have not had to deal with or think about.

5:20 PM, April 07, 2006  
Blogger Mercurior said...

by the attitudes of the people

********When I read the latter article which states "it was hard to believe the three men's story: that they were victims of physical abuse at the hands of their female partners********

police here have laughed at men who claim to be abused, and the generally arrest the man, for the womans safety.

5:34 PM, April 07, 2006  
Blogger BobH said...

For probably 30 years, the feminist mantra has been: "Men are scum, women are saints. Men only behave well when they do what women want them to and women only behave badly when men make them." I think that most men would accept that men very often are scum and behave badly. (Some of the most paranoid people I know are fathers of really pretty and independent teenage daughters.) But what has become apparent is that women's application for sainthood was very premature. I think that a lot of women, especially those currently in their teens and 20s, are going to find the next decade very unpleasant.

6:02 PM, April 07, 2006  
Blogger Mercurior said...

partly its men have been told we are, so we are.. might as well be hung as a sheep than as a lamb

6:05 PM, April 07, 2006  
Blogger Assistant Village Idiot said...

On The One Hand...
If they were surprised then none of them have ever worked on a locked psychiatric unit or women's prison. Robert Avrech over at Seraphic Secret can get you up to speed with his well-written series (he is a professional screenwriter, as in "Body Double") @ http://www.seraphicpress.com/archives/2006/01/how_not_to_talk.php

On The Other Hand
It pays to withhold agreement when someone tells you they have been abused, male or female. And also to withhold agreement if anyone, male or female, tells you they are falsely accused. This is an area where the ground is always shifting, and sometimes impossible to sort out.

Not that you should be unsympathetic to such claims and counterclaims, because that would in itself be hurtful. But it is best to remain noncommittal: "that must have been frightening," etc.

7:13 PM, April 07, 2006  
Anonymous Vicki said...

Twenty-some years ago, I worked with a woman who was doing her Master's thesis on men whose mothers had abused them. I have been vaguely aware for much longer than that that more men are abused by mothers, wives, or other women, than we ever hear about.

In earlier times, a man who "came out" as a victim of a female abuser were considered weak, wimpy, whiney--definitely not a "real man." Unfair. 'Course, a woman who stays with a man who abuses her is also looked at askance: "Why didn't you just leave? Why did you go back to him/let him come back?" The difference is that the PC'ers of today will, indeed, elevate her to sainthood among victims. In the same climate, men who are abused by women are more likely treated by many (PC) women as thoroughly deserving--just because they are men. Also unfair.

AVI's recommendation of noncommittal sympathy certainly makes sense, to me, especially for those who are investigating a claim. But I have to wonder how many men would falsely accuse a woman of outright abuse. Women do that a lot, I think, but don't men tend to just leave, when they get fed up?

10:24 PM, April 07, 2006  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

vicki,

Who is treating women like saints and men as deserving? How do these people know a particular person is being abused? How does the PC crowd know unless the person tells them? And, why would they tell them? Sounds like they are looking for some reaction. I suspect some people find satisfaction in being public victims.

10:37 PM, April 07, 2006  
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1:02 AM, April 08, 2006  
Blogger grassrootsblogger said...

ooops that is http://grassrootsblogger.com - intended to be a mostly environmental/health site

1:05 AM, April 08, 2006  
Blogger jw said...

From years of experience I'd say that these things are true:

- there are many men who will demand a man abused by his wife is a whimp, whinner and "not a man"

- there are many women who will demand that abused husbands are very rare: No amount of science will change their religiously based opinion (much of modern day feminism is a para-religion in that it is entirely faith based).

These things are proven beyond any doubt:

- there are good examples of battered husbands being arrested. Everyone should read "Riding the donkey backwards" http://www.fact.on.ca/Info/dom/george94.pdf

- there are good examples of judges prefering a known to be abusive mother over a known to be not-abusive father in divorce

- feminist women's groups have used threats to keep the data about battered husband's from the general public (Murray Strauss PhD, among others)


What you know about spousal violence is based almost entirely on a set of beliefs and data which has been distorted and twisted. Half truths and outright lies are the norm. What you know is, at best, wildly inaccurate.

5:16 AM, April 08, 2006  
Blogger Assistant Village Idiot said...

Vicki, you are right, but add in one point. Men will use abuse by women as a justification of their own abusiveness. In that situation they will stick around. It's also one of the things that makes working with people difficult -- sometimes both people are guilty, and both have legitimate complaints.

9:31 AM, April 08, 2006  
Blogger vesna said...

Great point, AVI,

As someone who has worked with female domestic violence victims, I noticed that it was not uncommon for some women to initiate violence with their male partners. There are indeed domestic situations where violence is a response by both parties - but what then when the police are called? Is the woman the one hurried off to counseling?

11:28 AM, April 08, 2006  
Blogger EvilPundit said...

I think it's possible that there are many more cases of two-way domestic violence than are generally acknowledged.

Approaching domestic violence as a criminal issue may make us unconsciously look for an "offender" and a "victim", when perhaps both partners may be offenders.

I don't have a great deal of experience in this area, but the one violent couple I knew followed this pattern. They would be fine during the day, but in the evenings, both would drink heavily, and both would become more abusive as they became more intoxicated. Eventually they would fight.

And that's another thing. I'm sure alcohol is a major factor in domestic violence, and both men and women are capable of drinking.

11:49 AM, April 08, 2006  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

As someone who's worked in and among social service and private philanthropic agencies in the DC region, I can attest to the high incidence of mutual assault among domestic partners. Physical confrontations are very common among some populations, especially where drugs, poverty, and general tumult combine to erode standards of conduct.

That said, I'm dubious of the proposition that we're going to revisit popular assumptions regarding domestic abuse any time soon.

Do you really think that CNN or the New York Times is going to acknowledge that Feminists' advocacy has resulted in an increase in infanticide and child abuse? There's too much at stake politically, and feminists have put themselves out on a limb endorsing these claims. I just don't see any way for them to step down from their positions without acknowledging that they've been lying to the public.

The problem with dancing with the devil is that you lose your soul when the dance ends.

2:26 PM, April 08, 2006  
Blogger vesna said...

Anonymous-

How has feminist advocacy resulted in an increase in infanticide and child abuse? Is this in relation to the myth that some people hold that mothers can only be heroes or victims?

2:43 PM, April 08, 2006  
Blogger Mercurior said...

well, i know of a few stories, a girl of my acquaintence, got given to her mother her custody, now this woman was abusive towards her daughter in a REALLY nasty way, the police knew, the courts knew, but the kid was placed with her.

there is a perception that women are the best people to raise kids, but some of them shouldnt have kids in the first place, and you can see this in the stories of mothers killing their children, the warning signs are there, but since the social services are told women can do no harm by feminist organisations, it places these kids in danger..

3:22 PM, April 08, 2006  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

V:

Basically by having commandeered child abuse as a womens' issue and then refusing to acknowledge or deal with maternal abuse. They've taken public money in the name of child abuse prevention and protective services but have then used these funds for advocacy efforts - promoting a very distorted picture of the typical abuse scenario. By taking funds away from legitimate programs, they reduce the capacity of these programs to serve children in need. These unserved children will most likely continue to be abused and many will eventually be killed. So the reason that Feminist policies have contributed to child abuse and infanticide is because these policies prevent children from receiving help and reduce the total amount of assistance that the system can provide.

also..

Womens' shelters typically do not allow adolescent males, fearing they'll intimidate the other women. These males are often the last line of defense between younger siblings and a violent mother.

They tend to horde their clients. Once a woman enters the system through a womens' shelter she's likely to be channelled to like minded organizations for additional services. This is how an abuser can 'slip through the cracks'. No one's looking at her behavior critically.

Their politics and advocacy efforts turn-off clients in need of help. For instance, I've had more than one client tell me that she didn't want to go to a certain shelter because she wasn't a lesbian. This wasn't a 'lesbian shelter' but the staff was so hardcore in their advocacy that they intimidated the residents.

Now I'm not stating all of this to condemn feminism. I agree with most of the traditional goals of feminism. But anyone who exploits people in such desperate circumstances needs to be called on it.

4:09 PM, April 08, 2006  
Anonymous Woman Abused By Mother said...

I know for a FACT women are abusive, too. My mother was horrendously abusive to both my father and me. And my father NEVER laid a hand on my mother. My father would go to work with scratches all over his face. My mother would just blow up for no reason at all, and start beating me and/or my father. She would also get extremely drunk, and once, even started a fire whilst drunk, that I, as an 8 year old, had to put out. She even attempted to kill us both. She was also horribly verbally abusive to us.

There is a movie about an abused man. It's called 'Men Don't Tell' In this movie, the man tried to find a shelter, and there were none.

http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0107553/

It's so sad that there is only one movie about an abusive woman, but thousands about abusive men.

6:19 PM, April 08, 2006  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Anonymous 2:26,

You didn't demonstrate that child abuse has increased as a result of feminism. What time are you using as a baseline?

9:08 PM, April 08, 2006  
Anonymous Maurice said...

It's so sad that there is only one movie about an abusive woman, but thousands about abusive men.

+ 3 television channels, 7 or 8 periodicals, and women's study programs across the country.

I've often wondered why it is that women enjoy narratives in which innocent women are victimized. For instance, cable channels such as E and Lifetime are filled with low budget formulaic paranoia films - My Husband Stole My Baby, My Prettier Younger Sister Seduced My Husband and They Stole My Baby , My Babysitter Stole My .., et.al.

What do women get out of these stories? Has anyone studied this? Is it possible that women are more prone to perceiving themselves as victims and so tend to describe their relationships in those terms? <- I'm not trying to be a jerk by writing that, it's a sincere question.

9:17 PM, April 08, 2006  
Blogger jw said...

My thoughts on feminism increasing child abuse:

Any talk of increasing child abuse is based on increase over where we would be if we did not have discrimination in favor of violent women. I'm fairly sure of this:

Canada has 112,000 child abuse cases. That's the listed number based on known cases. The doc is about half way down this page:
Canadian Incidence Study of Reported Child Abuse and Neglect - 2003
by Nico Trocmé et al.
http://www.phac-aspc.gc.ca/ncfv-cnivf/familyviolence/nfntsnegl_e.html

Now, we know that Canada does not provide services for male victims with the exception of counselling for depression which arises from the abuse. That's Canadian law and covered by the various human rights codes, (sadly).

We also know that most males getting custody of children do so as a result of maternal abandonment. That's always been the case for lone fathers. So the pool of men who get custody for ANY reason other than maternal abandonment is less than 7% of all divorces, that's a given due to the data.

Now the number of abused men in Canada is a variable based on whether or not you accept feminist theory, police theory, scientific theory or some combination of the above. The number most used by reputable thinkers is the 33% of all spousal abuse cases, (I say reputable thinkers as the 33% is the number I support!) The other numbers are: 3% (feminist), 17% (police), 43% (National Longitudinal Study (Statistics Canada)) and 50% (masculinist).

We can say with some assurance that when we have a battered man, he will not get custody of the kids on marriage breakdown. This leaves children in the custody of known spousal abusers.

Now, it is a given based on many over-views of the data that spousal abusers are far more likely to also be child abusers. Therefore, a solid percentage of abusive women will also have custody of the kids and abuse those kids.

Can we make a realistic guess as to where Canada's child abuse rate would be if Canada treated all abused spouses in the same way?

Probably ... well maybe. For my own part, I think the Canadian child abuse rate would drop below the 100,000 mark if Canada were willing to treat battered men fairly.

Thus, based on a lot of guessing, it is likely that there is an increase in the number of abused children based on feminist theory prevailing in law. That increase is an increase over the number we would have if we did not use feminist theory.

5:52 AM, April 09, 2006  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

re: proof

JW is right, you'd need to look at comparative results.

Unfortunately you can't establish 'proof' of specific policy affects using the statistical data that we collect. You'd likely need to do a controlled study. The problem here is that it's unethical to expose children to harm for the purposes of experimentation.

But if you're willing to consider proxies, take a look at the incidence rate increases for female dominated abuse types in the data below, and in comparison to more recent reporting. The policies that I'm criticizing came into bloom in the early to mid nineties, during the Clinton administration. The 96' NIS data should reflect some of the affects.

( NIS-3 , 1996 )
http://nccanch.acf.hhs.gov/pubs/statsinfo/nis3.cfm

( Child Mistreatment 2004 , 2006 )
typology
http://www.acf.hhs.gov/programs/cb/pubs/cm04/chapterthree.htm#types

composition
http://www.acf.hhs.gov/programs/cb/pubs/cm04/figure3_3.htm

patterns of recurrence
http://www.acf.hhs.gov/programs/cb/pubs/cm04/chapterthree.htm#recurrence

gender
http://www.acf.hhs.gov/programs/cb/pubs/cm04/figure3_6.htm

_______________

There plenty more here - http://nccanch.acf.hhs.gov/general/stats/index.cfm
* notice any specific mention of womens' prominence as abusers ? - how about men?

10:23 AM, April 09, 2006  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

JW said:
"Any talk of increasing child abuse is based on increase over where we would be if we did not have discrimination in favor of violent women."

I'd suggest you don't know where we would be without the discrimination you allege. It's a guess. So the increase is todays abuse minus the guess.

10:13 PM, April 09, 2006  
Blogger jw said...

anonymous 10:13 ::

Yes, it is minus a guess. BUT, the guess has some fairly solid data behind it.

Plus, the discrimination is not alleged: Discrimination against battered husbands is the law in Canada and is fact beyond doubt. Discrimination in favor of violent women is not the law, yet is about as close to being proven as can be. That do to a great many factors, data sets and legal theories.

4:08 AM, April 10, 2006  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Maurice, I watched a couple of those WIP (women in peril) movies and made a vow never to watch Lifetime again. Why other women watch those movies is something I will never fathom. I like and admire the male sex too much to watch them get bashed by this harpy network.

6:19 AM, April 10, 2006  
Anonymous Jim said...

"What do women get out of these stories? Has anyone studied this? Is it possible that women are more prone to perceiving themselves as victims and so tend to describe their relationships in those terms?"

Perhaps it is congenial to a sick sense of femininity, that to be truly feminine is to be frail and dainty. Whatever the cause turns out to be be, you are right to kook for the benefits to the behavior.

This may be the explanation for the way men put up with abuse. The reverse kind of sick sense of masculinity is the blame. Note how often it is only women who are the ones to protect men from other women, or who, like Woman abused by mother, are the only ones willing to tell the truth about abusive women.

One aspect of discrimination in the law is selective designation od behaviors as abusive - behaviors that one group is likelier to do as opposed to another group - for instance if verbal abuse is not legally sanctioned while physical abuse is.

3:35 PM, April 11, 2006  
Anonymous Empirical evidence, please said...

I've read a lot of comments filled with guesswork and maybe-so's, but not a one that has concrete evidence that feminism has increased the rate of child abuse.

Two things: Best friend has worked for 25 years as a nurse in the psych and drug abuse wards. The overwhelming number of abusers are male. Perhaps the data isn't slanted. Perhaps it's factual. And some of the abuse stories she can tell you from victims who wind up in the psych ward due to suicide attempts, drug use, etc., would curl your hair.

Thing the second: I looked up the data myself a year ago to help a friend researching a paper for class. The statistics bear out that the overwhelming number of abusers are male.

If you want me to believe that more women are abusing men, give me data. Supposition is not fact.

4:05 PM, April 11, 2006  
Blogger EvilPundit said...

"Empirical evidence" -- you make me laugh.

You demand empirical evidence, but all you have provided yourself is a vague claim that you have some anecdotal evidence -- without actually describing what it is.

Then you say you looked up the data, but you don't provide any specifics at all. Your words are entirely hollow.

Here's some real empirical evidence:

REFERENCES EXAMINING ASSAULTS BY WOMEN ON THEIR SPOUSES OR MALE PARTNERS: AN ANNOTATED BIBLIOGRAPHY


Martin S. Fiebert
Department of Psychology
California State University, Long Beach


SUMMARY: This bibliography examines 175 scholarly investigations: 139 empirical studies and 36 reviews and/or analyses, which demonstrate that women are as physically aggressive, or more aggressive, than men in their relationships with their spouses or male partners. The aggregate sample size in the reviewed studies exceeds 164,600.

6:06 PM, April 11, 2006  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

EvilPundit,

The summary you posted doesn't mention child abuse.

2:54 PM, April 12, 2006  
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