Tuesday, February 02, 2010

Men don't tell

Trudy W. Schuett: The silent victims: Battered husbands:

If there’s anything I’ve learned in 10 years of advocacy for unserved victims of partner abuse, it’s that men don’t tell.

Yes, the U.S. Dept. of Justice says there about 840,00 male victims of domestic violence each year. But those are just the ones who've reported it.

Not that the numbers really matter: What matters is that it's happening, and it’s no joke.

Trudy gives good advice to men in this column, like the following:

Do not phone police unless you are in immediate danger, and your life is at risk. Law enforcement professionals nationwide have been trained to presume the man is always the perpetrator. There have been many cases where a man has been arrested, even while his wife is in the process of assaulting him and/or a police officer. Don’t add this extra risk unless you absolutely cannot avoid it;

This is sad, but probably true. What we need is more education of law enforcement, but how will that happen if no one believes that men are at risk?

I was recently talking to a woman I know who said she used to work at a Home Depot. "There was a co-worker there, a guy in his late fifties who always came in all beat up. We all thought he was just a drunk. It turned out that his wife was beating him. One day, he ended up in the hospital but we heard he went home and his wife was 'taking care of him.' We kind of wondered what happened to him."

Like many silent victims, probably no one will ever know.



Blogger Francis W. Porretto said...

Masculine pride -- the emotional overlay of a dedication to the manly virtues -- practically forbids a confession of that sort. All the same, the problem has no slightest chance of being seriously addressed until abused men come out of their closets.

8:20 PM, February 02, 2010  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

We kind of wondered what happened to him.

So he quit his Home Depot job and never called the police? I find the apathy of his coworkers disturbing.

It would interesting to know if said coworkers would have called the police on their own if they knew a female coworkers was getting beaten and not helping herself.

9:50 PM, February 02, 2010  
Blogger BobH said...

To paraphrase Warren Farrell, "The underlying principle of feminism is that women should have options and men should have obligations." I guess that goes for beatings too. The easiest way for men to avoid this treatment is by avoiding close relationships with women. But them women claim that men do this because we're cowardly and immature.

Women entrap men constantly and in many different ways. If you believe evolutionary theories about the origins of emotions, this whole line of reasoning can occur at the unconscious level.

8:15 AM, February 03, 2010  
Blogger Trust said...

@BobH: "The easiest way for men to avoid this treatment is by avoiding close relationships with women. But them women claim that men do this because we're cowardly and immature."

Yup, when men don't marry due the the current landscape, it is "fear of commitment", "unwillingness to grow up," immaturity, etc.

But when women don't stay married due to the current landscape (basically, they get all the assets, money, custody, support, etc. while liberating themselves from their duties), there are no similar slams to them

This is particularly curious since the men above do not tear apart families and devastate children. The women above not only hurt children and men, they are encouraged by law to do so.

Incentives, classic version: "Why buy the cow when you can get the milk for free."

Incentives, modern version: "Why fulfill your duties to your husband when the state will mandate he fulfill his even if you leave."

8:40 AM, February 03, 2010  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

One of those pinhole video cameras would be useful.

9:02 AM, February 03, 2010  
Blogger Peregrine John said...

I'm a little confused about the figure listed, "840,00" - should it be 840,000 with a missing zero or 84,000 with a misplaced comma?

10:33 AM, February 03, 2010  
Blogger Dr.Alistair said...

what`s to tell?

a phone thrown in anger.

the occasional shove.

the sexual unavailability.

the "going out with the girls".

the freak outs and the sulking.

visits from the angry mother and father only speaking in portuguese.

abusive? yes.

i questioned myself and didn`t want to leave...because of the children.

and yes, she got the lot. house, car, children.

funny though; i see the boys more than she does.

she works 70 hours a week and the car i bought and left her has a faulty heater which she refuses to fix.

and boys and girls, in toronto this time of year, it`s very cold.

so she has gone from abusing me to abusing the boys.

and yeah, i know, call children`s aid.

but then my children get further abused....

11:56 AM, February 03, 2010  
Blogger Dr.Alistair said...

...and yeah, sorry...my point is that i`m not suffering. i`m not a victim. i`m not frail and cowering. i`m just angry.

but any move i make to effect change for what i might see as right or better...like forcing her to stop my oldest sitting up all night on-line on x-box while in her care...will hurt him more than help the situation.

and whre is she in all this?

asleep next door exhausted from working 12 hour shifts....even though she lives mortgage free with no responsibilities but to feed, clothe, shelter and raise two boys, which she got the court to give her sole right to in law.

my recourse in law would be to call children`s aid and have them investigate why to children are left for many hours a day unattended and allowed free access to internet...and then, over time, return to court to claim custody.

and i may win. but my children would have lost thier mother, resulting in a net harm to them.

12:04 PM, February 03, 2010  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Hit the bitch back...that's what a real Man needs to do.

12:22 PM, February 03, 2010  
Blogger Steve said...

God Of Bacon said...

One of those pinhole video cameras would be useful.


Why is this the kind of advice that people always give? You do know, don't you, that this is illegal in most states, if the party being recorded doesn't know that they are? While I would much rather be on the end of a charge for illegal recording than DV, it's not without it's pitfalls.

Dr. Alistair,

The question is, which is more harmful to your children? The neglect she shows them, or the actual parenting you would do? At what point do you allow more damage to be done? Shouldn't the kids well being be the first priority? I don't see how leaving them in that situation is a benefit (I know this sounds preachy, but i'm genuinely curious).

All the best,

E. Steven Berkimer

1:13 PM, February 03, 2010  
Blogger Dr.Alistair said...

e. that`s certainly a perspective i`ve entertained. on the one hand, i don`t want to deprive them of thier mother...and on the other, the children`s aid recourse is so heavy-handed, invasive and distressing to all parties involved...without a guarantee that custody would be corrected.

and i ask myself; are my children unhappy with thier life with mother?

i see them week nights and they stay with me week-ends and they are well adjusted for the most part, other than the fact that my oldest suffers substantial sleep deprivation and sleeps well into sunday afternoon here. he turns 14 in the spring, with all that entails, hormones, high school, hygene etc. and i can assure you that his mother can not even begin to cope with all that.

and the really ironic thing?

my girlfriend is a children`s aid case worker.

what does she say?

she understands my desire to not deprive them of thier children, and she knonws investigations can get bloody qiuckly.

so we wait and see, and are grateful for the fact that they still have thier father in thier lives in such a legal and political climate.

1:28 PM, February 03, 2010  
Blogger George Clooney said...

As recently as the 80's the idea of a man being beat up by a woman was laughable. This was because up until that time women were still relatively feminine and most of them still tried to control their wieght and cared what a man thought- so most of them tried to stay thin or petite.

But starting in the 90's when American women started to let themselves go they have now blown up to monstourous sizes- most American women today are BEASTS! Have you seen these monsters? GODDAMN. I mean I'm a big guy, but I know for a fact that these landwhales could definitely do some severe damage to me or any other guy- plus they've all become so psychotic and/or BUTCH. Plus violent assaults by women have increased 300% in the last 15 years- it's what happens to an entire segment of society when they are no longer held accountable for anything and left to live like animals. Which leads to the next point... that they know they can get away with any violence including murder- blowing your husband's head off with a shotgun in his sleep and going scott free - you name it. So today's American female is full blown psychotic, butch and deadly HUGE.

Society needs to catch up with the current state of women- they're 20-30 years behind the times with their attitudes about women assaulting men.

3:20 PM, February 03, 2010  
Blogger Jeff Y said...

We have a serious problem with police in this country.

No one can "train" police to arrest a man, because his wife assaulted someone else. No one can "train" police to arrest a man for the temerity of being stabbed his wife. No one can "train" police to beat down a man as extra-judicial punishment, just because his wife makes an unsubstantiated claim of abuse.

To do those kinds of things, you have to be an asshole to begin with.

4:00 PM, February 03, 2010  
Blogger Anwn said...


Your situation sounds incredibly wrenching, but I just wanted to make one observation.

You seem to be wondering if they are "happy" with their mother.

Let's assume that they are happy - at least in the moment - but what are they learning from all of this?

One area of conflict my wife and I have has to do with the the immediate comfort/pleasure/happiness of the boys vs. the long term effects of the actions taken to produce a desired effect - no matter how fleeting.

Where as I would rather take time to make kids learn to do things on their own, she feels the need to diffuse the discomfort and "just do it" - whatever "it" happens to be - but she would rather avoid an older kid getting upset and waking the baby 'right now' even though our kids are way behind on being able to do things for themselves.

I say this because "being happy" is not, in my opinion, nearly as important as learning to take care of yourself and establish your own independence. Additionally, the most impact we have on our kids is in the way we model adult behaviors and relationships.

If kids see their mother manipulating men or acting passive aggressive or physically violent in situations, then the kids will begin to see that as normal adult behavior.

We have our struggles over how we are conditioning the kids, but if it every became an issue of violence, I would take drastic action because I don't want my kids to see a man submit to being attacked by a woman.

Violence is pretty clear cut, but those other areas can be tricky shades of gray in terms of what is acceptable. Do we act "petty" and over react at the first sign of trouble, or do we slowly go down the slippery slope of every increasing tolerance? Tough call.

4:08 PM, February 03, 2010  
Blogger Dr.Alistair said...

anwn, if i had other more reasonable recourse, i would take it.

my only option regarding how the buys are raised is to move in court for custody.

i understand your position regarding peace now vs. responsibility later....and that`s the way i approach tasks in my own life and that of my children when they are in my care.

when they are with me there is a substantial sanction against most screen use. the boys are both accomplished guitarists and we spend time palying together. my girlfriend and i take the boys out of the home to hike or sight-see or visit local places of interest over the week-ends, or plainly go to the mall or the coffee shop to engage socially.

the children are included in everything from cooking to food shopping to cleaning and domestic repairs...things they only do with thier mother if she bribes themn with money.....

to me, these things are an integral part of family life. while we are at task we talk, laugh, joke and pass on what we know and expect of them as they grow.

if i thought that there would be a net gain in sueing for custody and the boys would come out the other side intact emotionally, then i would set a date tomorrow and let her justify her behaviour.

but we know that bureaucrats are self-serving and my children and i would get ground up in the machinery and spat out the other side.

4:44 PM, February 03, 2010  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

I started to get the picture with this incident:

I owned my own home. I met a woman and she eventually moved in with me.

We had a verbal argument, and she called the police.

The first two people to arrive were a man and woman (both in police uniform). My girlfriend started in with her story, and I just stood there.

The female cop then started yelling at HER, saying, "it was just a verbal argument, and you are wasting police time".

Then the door busted down with more police (like 4 guys).

One guy took my aside, told me that he didn't want to come back again that night, and I had 5 minutes to pack a small bag. I was to get the hell out, and I could come back in the morning if I could behave myself.

I told him that I hadn't touched my girlfriend, and that it was my house.

He said I now had 4 minutes, the clock was ticking, and I had the choice of getting out for the night or going to jail.

So I left.

I went down to a corner bar and drank a bit, then went back home.

In the morning, I talked to a friend on the phone. He said that I could really have trouble, because she could file a restraining order against me and move me out of MY OWN HOUSE. The legal details could go on forever, and in the meantime, I would have to find somewhere to live - and pay for it - while she lived in my house.

I wisely took his advice and was super nice to her.

I didn't really know how to get her out without her exploding again.

I honestly thought about renting an apartment, moving there, and then initiating legal proceedings against her without having any contact (except via witnesses).

She eventually moved out, but it is unreal that men have to think about such extremes.

5:17 PM, February 03, 2010  
Blogger Cham said...


I have no idea what the law is like where you live, but when you let someone move into your home where I live that gives them all sorts of rights even if they don't have lease and aren't paying one dime in rent. For someone to prove that they live at my home all they need is a key to the front door. If I want them to leave I have to go through eviction proceedings, which, thankfully here, only take 45 days. In other jurisdictions it is more like 90. You aren't the first one with these kinds of problems, it is pretty common. If one lets an unethical person move into their home it doesn't take much for them to convince a court that you pose a risk to them and then YOU have to move out. While you are gone they can steal your stuff, sell it, burn down your house and collect insurance money.

My advice to anyone who wants to let someone move in, go ahead let them. Whatever you do, don't have them sign a lease or GIVE THEM A KEY under any circumstances.

5:44 PM, February 03, 2010  
Blogger Jeff Y said...

@Target, most police are jerks. Otherwise innocent people would have little to fear from them. So, of course they'll force you out of your house. Your a "civilian," and they are in charge. Even in your own house.

Like I said before, it's not just that police are "trained" to ignore your rights. Police departments select candidates who are already the kind of jerk who'll violate your rights.

6:01 PM, February 03, 2010  
Blogger George Clooney said...


You live in a police state and have no rights even in your own home... that's if your male of course. Most men are SO fucking stupid and don't even know anything about any of this until it's too late and then the rest of the time they have an attitude of "I don't care about topics like that" "I don't like to dwell on negative things like that" (ACTUAL LINES I HEAR ALL THE TIME FROM OTHER MEN WHEN I TRY TO EXPLAIN TO THEM HOW THE LAWS WORK) or "I've never heard of that so it must not be true" or "you've got a really bad attitude" and of course "you have a real problem with women." Then next time someone tells me that I'm going to punch them so hard their going to come off their feet.

The reason the laws have become this way is because of these men (most men) and this incredibly stupid attitude they have.

6:16 PM, February 03, 2010  
Blogger Topher said...


People chide me for my dismissive and cynical attitude towards relationship-hysteria issues like "psychological abuse." I am in full agreement with you - those people are not being honest with themselves or anyone else about how dangerous it is for men.

In all likelihood they just don't want to acknowledge it and have their fantasy worldview upset. Most people like living in a bubble where they don't have to consider they could get screwed.

I also get happy-go-lucky people like our poster friend Mary with her "well you can't just pick a woman based on the size of her ta-tas" which is good advice but is as relevant to the issue as telling someone to eat less saturated fat.

Finally, I get the white-knighters and "you have a problem with women" people. I reply that I don't have a problem with women - I have a problem with 15-year olds in 25-year olds' bodies.

8:48 AM, February 04, 2010  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

The Archivist has informed me that a security camera in one's home is illegal.

You may be thinking of telephone recordings. I've never heard of a case where someone who videotaped a crime was charged with anything.

10:35 AM, February 04, 2010  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

"I've never heard of a case where someone who videotaped a crime was charged with anything."


Those cases exist.

11:20 AM, February 04, 2010  
Blogger Topher said...


It's not always about being charged, it's also about whether the video evidence is admissible.

11:48 AM, February 04, 2010  
Blogger Anwn said...


That is shocking and sobering, but not surprising.

I wonder what would have happened if you had said you were not leaving and just held out your wrists?

Is that considered arrest or do they call it something else?

I wonder how the situation is affected if you were to have several other people move in?

Perhaps the Bro Code needs to be amended so that in this situation, you get 5-7 guys to move in.

Maybe those guys sit around in loose fitting underwear and scratch a lot?

Once your buddies are moved in, you now have witnesses so if she calls the police, its now at least 5 vs 1.

Can they make all the men leave including the owner?

Police issues aside, once you get several guys in the house, it seems like it would not be too hard to just make it really uncomfortable for her until she leaves. What with all the parties and all the bikini model art work hung throughout the house and the non stop ESPN and, of course, the scratching. Men have a right to scratch right? In their own home? This is still America!

Hell, you could even start an underground business and hire out your "buddies" to get rid of unwanted guests.

12:10 PM, February 04, 2010  
Blogger George Clooney said...

That's nice. And it is true that some recent false accusations of even rape have been thwarted by the fact there was recorded evidence.

But how about a refreshing new approach - you know, like becoming politically active to change the actual INSANE LAWS concerning rape and DV? Anybody game? Anybody even care?

12:37 PM, February 04, 2010  
Blogger George Clooney said...

"Hell, you could even start an underground business and hire out your "buddies" to get rid of unwanted guests."

Cute. But we're talking about men's entire future being destroyed by a false accusation and the psychotic laws and the fact we live in a police state.

Making 'cute' jokes in the midst of all of this isn't exactly appropriate- kind of like making jokes about rape.

And btw the cutesy idea wouldn't work- she would just accuse ALL of them of something and they would ALL be out the next day. Any questions?

12:42 PM, February 04, 2010  
Blogger Anwn said...

George Clooney,

I agree that there are deep, systemic problems that need to be addressed. Those kinds of changes take years or decades.

In the mean time, I think that it is entirely reasonable for men to understand where they are vulnerable and to develop tactics to protect themselves.

I had an uncle that had a rental home in rural Oregon in the late 1970s and his renters just stopped paying and refused to leave. He could have initiated eviction procedures but being a practical man, he just went down and removed the doors from the house in the middle of Winter. I guess you could get away with that back then. Anyway, it didn't take but a day or so for the freeloaders to find a new place to squat.

This may not be the ideal forum for an extended discussion on the subject but I think my comments were entirely on topic and competently raised questions about the limits of the abuse of power and how to counter it.

I can't help but come away with the sense that you are looking for an all or nothing solution. In principle, nothing less than "all" is acceptable but in practice, this approach invariably leave you with nothing.

The rights lost, the freedoms infringed and the violations codified into law were not done in a day or a year and they will not be corrected but one law, one jurisdiction, one court case at a time.

This is a civil rights issue and right now, most people are not even aware that a problem exists and very few people understand the scope.

We need more discussion, more ideation, more "what if" scenarios and more thought. Not less.

1:11 PM, February 04, 2010  
Blogger George Clooney said...

Men need to become POLITICALLY active and cut the crap. And that includes all these touchy-feely 'groups' as well as any other nonsense. Fathers & Families is about the only group taking any direct political action at all.

3:18 PM, February 04, 2010  
Blogger weka said...

Dr Alister...

Me had two relationships. First partner disappeared with daughter to Canada. Where she was neglectful. I had no recourse (I live in New Zealand). I see my Grandchildren now.

I am raising two sons because their mother was working 16 hour days. Because I had some money and a good lawyer -- about 80K later, I won.

But NZ has changed its law and things are moving.

I would keep a diary of everything you have found and insist of a social work report and a psychologist report.

Oh, and expect to have everything thrown at you, but it is better for your children to have your time now.

Don't allow what happened to my daughter

4:46 AM, February 05, 2010  
Blogger Dr.Alistair said...

chris, a diary, social work report and psychologist report and lots of money and a lawyer and a judge...you mean.

the way things are for me now is that i see my boys more than she does anyway, and they will eventually be living with me merely because as they get older her games will wear thin, and they will want to be around reasonable people who support them.

11:24 AM, February 05, 2010  
Blogger Anwn said...

I am sure it depends on where you live but I thought that at around age 12, children were able to decide who they wanted to live with (in the US)?

It sounds like you are playing a long game and will get them to that point where they can choose you as sole custodian.

Is that more or less possible?

4:20 PM, February 05, 2010  
Blogger Steve said...

God of Bacon,

I'll pull up the link, but there was a politician who was falsely accused of rape (by a man), and he was able to provide video evidence that the sex was consensual. They charged him with illegal recording, because the other man didn't know he was being video taped. We ran that story on our site (I know you stop by - Thank you for that, by the way).

8:35 PM, February 05, 2010  
Blogger Steve said...


Found it. This is the story.


And as we have seen in story after story, video evidence has been a HUGE help in exonerating a lot of people accused of rape.

I have no problem with video taping, if that is what you want to do, but you need to make sure that you are informing the other party/parties that you are doing it.

8:47 PM, February 05, 2010  
Blogger weka said...

I did the diary thing in the first relatiohship but the mistake was letting her disappear back to Canada. (Guess who paid for her to come out). Second time round, 20 years older -- and it took a second mortgage to pay for it.
In NZ children have a lawyer and my 14 year old chose to be with me and I had the psychologist report in favour of me.
The ex is appealing saying that my boy cannot make up his mind.

In my case, my professional status has not helped, because I have had to travel (1200 km now) for all the cases.

But it will take determination and money and lawyers.

Best of luck


9:26 PM, February 06, 2010  

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