Wednesday, March 31, 2010

Stuart Schneiderman on liberal intolerance:

Liberalism is not about people; it is about loving ideas more than people. When liberal policies fail, good liberals do not go back to the drawing board. They see themselves challenged to produce a logical contortion that explains why they are not at fault.

When it comes to dealing with those who take exception to liberal orthodoxy, many of today's liberals are intolerant to an extreme. If liberalism began in the nineteenth century by asserting the value of freedom, today's true liberals are really libertarians. Old style liberals believed in free markets, free trade, free speech, and the free and open exchange of ideas. Many of today's liberals believe in none of it.

25 Comments:

Blogger TMink said...

Correctness is not equivalent to freedome now, is it? And progressive politics is about enforcing corrections.

Trey

2:01 PM, March 31, 2010  
Blogger TMink said...

Freedom.

Sheesh.

Trey

2:02 PM, March 31, 2010  
Blogger DADvocate said...

Tough day for prufreeders. ;-0

If liberalism began in the nineteenth century by asserting the value of freedom, today's true liberals are really libertarians.

Very true. Most of today's liberals/progressives are leftists who care nothing about freedom and everything about forcing everyone to conform to lefist ideals.

2:16 PM, March 31, 2010  
Blogger TMink said...

Dadvocate, good distinction between liberals and leftists. Ever notice how liberals have a sense of humour and leftists do not?

Trey

2:54 PM, March 31, 2010  
Blogger Joe said...

The hallmark of modern liberalism is that if we can but talk about the problems, they will be solved.

A big evidence of this is the downright fear liberals have of free speech. They are scared to death of it. Just look at the criticisms now toward obamacare opponents; our sin isn't about disagreeing with Obama and the liberals but in voicing those disagreements.

3:54 PM, March 31, 2010  
Blogger David said...

It is extremely bad tactics to refer to people like Obama as liberals. Call them "progressives", which is what they call themselves, but always use the quotation marks.

Again, the name of the game here is persuasion and marketing. We should be trying to disassemble the opposition's coalition, not solidify it.

4:17 PM, March 31, 2010  
Blogger br549 said...

I think we should call "progressives", communists.

And I also believe McCarthy was right. And not just so Ann Coulter won't be the lone ranger.

4:33 PM, March 31, 2010  
Blogger TMink said...

The data supports McCarthy was correct. Declassified American and Soviet documents show that he was generally accurate in his accusations.

Trey

4:42 PM, March 31, 2010  
Blogger fred said...

alas, so many generalizations and abstractions:
if the 19th century represents the good old days, how many women voted and how many slaves were there? There is intolerance on both sides of the aisle, and free markets went out many years ago, when the govt subsidized various groups (farmers et al). If the Democrats are to be called liberals, and Obama is their representative, then are you really saying Health Care just passed is only about ideas andnot about policyY

When David Frum got booted fromn his think tank (Enterprise), because he questioned the GOP's policies, is that to be understood as the give and take of ideas and free speech?
come on. Find fault with both parties and true believers. Picking on the one to the exclusion of the other is hardly convincing to an independent mind.

6:37 PM, March 31, 2010  
Blogger Joe said...

It is unclear why Frum got booted. My own guess that it was in part because he dissented from a core principle of his employer, but mostly because his dissent drew attention to the fact that he wasn't doing a whole lot for his employer and it was highly questionable whether he was even on their side. (It's long seemed to me that Frum is a conservative out of calculation not conviction. He's a fair weather conservative along with Brooks and McCain.)

To be even more clear; The American Enterprise Institute believes in free enterprise. David Frum does not. Why should the AEI keep employing the guy?

7:52 PM, March 31, 2010  
Blogger Topher said...

Frum plays a game that's fairly common inside the Beltway...he is constantly available as a quote against his own party. The only time he gets any attention from anybody is when he's cover for the press, a critical voice that gives ostensible balance to the story because he identifies as a Republican.

This is how John McCain got along with the media for much of the Bush presidency; of course, as a house slave McCain realized late that when "fighting for his freedom" (i.e. running for President against a favorite of the media) his allies in the press weren't interested in cooperating with him anymore.

Frum wrote a hysterical article after Obamacare passed blasting the GOp leadership. It sounded like it could have been written by Rahm Emmanuel.

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12:04 AM, April 01, 2010  
Blogger Chuck Pelto said...

TO: All
RE: Those Who Are 'Angry'....

....at those who dispute them have a deep, underlying lack of confidence in the rightness and/or 'righteousness' of their position.

There's an old adage that goes....

He who starts shouting first has lost the argument.

I've found it to be rather accurate. And the reason they started 'shouting' or 'name-calling' or 'killing' is because (1) they know they're losing the 'argument' and (2) they've got too much of a personal 'stake' in the argument. The latter having to do with over-weaned pride....one of those cursed 'mortal sins'.

It's even explained in The Official Rules as The Lawyers Rule:

[1] If the Law is against you, argue the facts.
[2] If the facts are against you, argue the Law.
[3] If the Law and the facts are against you, call the other side names.

The Left is almost ALWAYS using option #3. Look at the mention of Elder by TMink in a previous thread.

Regards,

Chuck(le)
P.S. And when name-calling isn't enough....what WILL they do? Three guesses.....first two don't count....

7:51 AM, April 01, 2010  
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Blogger Francis W. Porretto said...

"They see themselves challenged to produce a logical contortion that explains why they are not at fault."

This is, indeed, the heart of liberalism.

Once you have internalized the doctrine that your opponents must be either stupid or evil, you have to keep a hefty distance between yourself and them. This can only be accomplished by averting all accusations of intellectual error or moral fault. That compels you to rationalize your way around your failures.

George Orwell grasped it better than anyone today:

"Consider for instance some comfortable English professor defending Russian totalitarianism. He cannot say outright, ‘I believe in killing off your opponents when you can get good results by doing so’. Probably, therefore, he will say something like this:

‘While freely conceding that the Soviet regime exhibits certain features which the humanitarian may be inclined to deplore, we must, I think, agree that a certain curtailment of the right to political opposition is an unavoidable concomitant of transitional periods, and that the rigors which the Russian people have been called upon to undergo have been amply justified in the sphere of concrete achievement.’...

Stuart Chase and others have come near to claiming that all abstract words are meaningless, and have used this as a pretext for advocating a kind of political quietism. Since you don't know what Fascism is, how can you struggle against Fascism? One need not swallow such absurdities as this, but one ought to recognise that the present political chaos is connected with the decay of language, and that one can probably bring about some improvement by starting at the verbal end."

From his essay "Politics and the English Language."

4:19 PM, April 01, 2010  
Blogger Francis W. Porretto said...

"They see themselves challenged to produce a logical contortion that explains why they are not at fault."

This is, indeed, the heart of liberalism.

Once you have internalized the doctrine that your opponents must be either stupid or evil, you have to keep a hefty distance between yourself and them. This can only be accomplished by averting all accusations of intellectual error or moral fault. That compels you to rationalize your way around your failures.

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Stuart Chase and others have come near to claiming that all abstract words are meaningless, and have used this as a pretext for advocating a kind of political quietism. Since you don't know what Fascism is, how can you struggle against Fascism? One need not swallow such absurdities as this, but one ought to recognise that the present political chaos is connected with the decay of language, and that one can probably bring about some improvement by starting at the verbal end."

From his essay "Politics and the English Language."

4:19 PM, April 01, 2010  
Blogger Steve said...

Old line Liberalism/Progressiveism was taken over by the Marxists/Communists/Stateists quite some time ago. The problem as I see it now is alerting people that it has happened. Most are still stuck thinking that today's Liberalism is all about "the little guy" or "the working man" when noting could be further from the truth. For today's liberals it is about power and control masquerading as curing Global Warming™, energy independence, green initiatives, universal health care and other market detached boondoggles sponsored by the state.

At one time I believed that our incredible country could outlast four years of Obama governance. But now I'm not so sure.

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