No recession in DC!
I saw an article via Drudge this morning about government workers feeling no pain from the recession:
I'm here in DC on business and everywhere I look, fat cat government workers and others are partying in local restaurants and bars, and the hotels are booked solid, apparently with conferences. Too bad Las Vegas isn't doing this well. No recession here in DC.
The recession and the ongoing jobless recovery devastated much of the private-sector work force last year, sending unemployment soaring, but government workers emerged essentially unscathed, according to data released Wednesday by the Labor Department.
I'm here in DC on business and everywhere I look, fat cat government workers and others are partying in local restaurants and bars, and the hotels are booked solid, apparently with conferences. Too bad Las Vegas isn't doing this well. No recession here in DC.
posted by Helen at 9:36 AM
55 Comments:
Clinton relocated a very significant amount of federal contracts to the area and Bush expanded what was already being done. Had Clinton not done that, the Bush era expansion would have benefited a much more diverse set of communities than it did.
I also attribute it to a desire on the part of the Democrats to destroy Virginia's status as a red state. So far, it's worked pretty well. 2/3 of our last governors have been left-of-center Democrats and we would have had a 3rd if Deeds hadn't been such an asshat that even most of his own party's big wigs in the state not only wouldn't support him, but did so publicly.
I work in a tax office on the weekends. I do these people's taxes. You have no clue as to how much these people are swimming your money. Many of them make well over 6 figures. Those same federal government workers, oddly enough, have taken advantage of debt forgiveness and are shocked and angry when they find out that if their assets exceed their liabilities they have to pay taxes on the dollar value of the debt forgiven. They are also up to their eyeballs in bankruptcies and foreclosures. Not only that, but many of them have been on the losing end of IRS audits, which is why they are seeking help with their taxes in 2010. I could write a book. Their crappy attitude and "I deservism" is a whole nother story. (And on a side note, if you weigh 450 pounds and have trouble walking 10 feet how much work can you being doing, even in a government office?) This is what the people out in Nebraska don't see.
In town on business? Why didn't you say so, a bunch of us could have gotten together with you.
Six of the nation's ten highest-income counties are in northern Virginia.
The average salary for government workers exceeds that of workers doing comparable work in private industry. Plus, the government workers have just about unlimited job security; it is well nigh impossible to fire a civil service employee past the brief probationary period.
This is all part of the socialist plan to make us all wards of the state. All of the good jobs will be on the state payroll. That is the plan, and it is working very, very well.
Having worked my last seven years before retirement in a Navy laboratory, I can say with confidence that was the most do nothing place I have ever seen. In seven years, I had only a little over a years worth of work to do. The rest of the time it was a matter of finding things to keep my self amused. Waste, waste, waste. No sense of direction, no authorization to work on many useful projects suggested, denial of requests to participate in projects that were going on, etc.
In seven years, I had only a little over a years worth of work to do.
Well, you're a regular busy beaver compaired to my office.
It's true enough. Local unemployment rates here are low, even in the private sector. As mentioned above, it isn't just government workers. It's all the businesses around here that are government *contractors* -- they are also protected from recessions to a large degree even though they are not government workers.
Here's a link to the 6 of the richest counties that Dave mentions, one is the richest county. Heavily populated by government workers who produce virtually nothing and consider themselves to have power over us.
Dr. D,
"The average salary for government workers exceeds that of workers doing comparable work in private industry."
You are absolutely right, but it seems the opposite is true in certain high-technology niches; the government is having a hard time attracting top-notch IT security and engineering management people.
The reason is pretty simple - not only can they make big cash in the dreaded private sector, hardcore creative people aren't attracted to job security and wages/benefits as much as they crave work freedom and resources to do the things they want to do. You can't get that in most government places, even the labs that Dr. D speaks of; people know an office of govvies isn't going to help them realize their dreams as much as, say, a workaholic-filled startup.
From the article I linked above:
The federal government generates a wealth of jobs, keeping unemployment in the D.C. metro area at a low 6.2% (the national average is still near 10%). The best-paid workers from D.C. take their money home to Loudoun, where jobs have grown 4% between the second quarter of 2007 and the second quarter of 2009, according to the Bureau of Labor Statistics.
Yep, the ruling class lives in luxury and a land of plenty while the rest of us struggle. It's hard to believe there are still rubes out there who trust to these people and turn to them for help.
Big government is on a tear. State government out west here (I'm in Washington), both city and state, are hiring like never before. Their numbers increasing in the last few years by double digit growth. All the while they are crying poor and jacking up taxes everywhere on everything for anybody.
The huge crime is the gold plated government retirement benefits that are bankrupting liberal Democrat controlled states like California and Washington. There are literally multiple billions in funding shortfall for these benefits with more debt every year. So who's gonna pay?
It was reported a week or so ago that a government worker in a state back east had contributed slightly more than $60,000 to his retirement account and stood to receive 1.2 million in benefits. It was also reported elsewhere that some government workers will be making more in retirement (each year) than they made while working. And while working they were making well north of 100K a year.
A some point the stuff is going to hit the fan and it will make what is happening in Greece look like a summer gathering for tea and crumpets.
I went to a Navy lab where I hoped to find funding to do the work that private industry could not afford to do. I was not that way at all. All of the funding when to private industry, particularly KAPL and Bettis labs, to do the work I hoped we would be able to do. The Navy has deliberately dismantled its own in-house technical expertise, and now just want to have the ability to oversee the work done by contractors. The US Navy cannot design a ship, sad to say. I is totally dependent on contractors to do all design work, to tell it how to do everything from designing a new weapon, to a new propulsion system, or a new radar system. It is totally lame. But it can waste money at an incredible rate by dithering and indecisiveness. All Navy and Army weapons labs should be closed; they are complete wastes of tax money because they have been gutted of all technical competence. This was not always true, but it is entirely true today. Even so, few engineers there make under $100k, and many make up towards $150k and more.
Let's not play the someone is better off than others game. You are in DC on business. Hotels, eating...not bad, right? Lobbyists there too doing their thing. In fact many more millionaires created in the past year than previously. Golvt is big and since they are "funded" by tax bucks, they are workers with jobs.
Not by chance we have no need to fill our military ranks: govt job with benefits in nice needed market.
In two years, when jobs pick way up, govt work will seem less attractive.
Go to any major city. I was recently in NY and could not get into decent restaurants without reservation a few days or more in advance. We still have many with jobs doing well.
If you looked and saw fat cats partying in bars and restaurants, then you were in the same place---eating and drinking too.
Yeah, fred, let's all live with our heads in the sand hiding from reality. Let's forget about reality. The serfs need to shut up and support the aristocracy. Could you be more of an idiot? Did that book you wrote have lines like, "See Spot run. Run, Spot, run."?
While many workers in the private sector have despaired of a pay increase in the past few years, Congress takes care of federal employees with annual raises, awarding 3.9 percent in 2009, 3.5 percent in 2008 and 2.7 percent in 2007.
The average pay for the nation's 1.9 million federal workers is a little over $71,000, with the 372,041 federal workers in the Washington area earning an average of $94,047. The average salary for the nation's 108 million private-sector workers is $50,028.
Read more at the Washington Examiner: http://www.washingtonexaminer.com/politics/Federal-salaries-targeted-as-private-sector-pay-stagnates-8665856-79571487.html#ixzz0htlll0Fs
The huge crime is the gold plated government retirement benefits that are bankrupting liberal Democrat controlled states like California and Washington. There are literally multiple billions in funding shortfall for these benefits with more debt every year. So who's gonna pay?
You know good and well who is going to pay - the rest of us who have no penion plans except for what we've been able to save via IRAs and 401Ks. Now, some in the government are discussing how to take over those private accounts (because we might mismanage them) worth trillions of dollars and give us a promisary note for retirement benefits. Basically, they see a stash of money they want to spend on themselves and are scheming to take it. They'll leave us living in poverty to government employees ("government workers" is an oxymoron) can enjoy a cushy retirement.
Mark my words, if that happens, blood will flow.
I bet there isn't a country in the world where people in the capital are less well off than people elsewhere. The logic is that cash and contracts flow toward the government.
That said, RealtyTrac reported today that there were more than 300,000 foreclosure notices filed nationwide in February.
Interestingly, Maryland is now among the top 10 foreclosure states -- and the two largest suburban counties in Maryland are just outside Washington, DC.
See:
Foreclosure Filings Rise For 50th Straight Month.
All the best,
Peter
Many speak of the ca-ca hitting the fan down the road. I can't help but wonder if by the time it gets that bad if our own government won't be willing to kill 30 million to keep 300 million in line. I am reminded of what the undercover FBI agent spoke about when in the company of Ayers' buddies. They spoke of 25 million. And we all know Stalin had no problem doing it. And Mao.
I honestly am beginning to believe that almost anything is possible in this nation, in time. I too live in VA. Southeast corner. Lots of civil service here. So much so, that the area I live was blamed for Obama taking the state this cycle.
You know, you're not making me feel any better about my grand-standing brother-in-law who just took a job with the foreign service and constantly brags about his friends' huge salaries to us hard-working private-sector folks. Come to think of it, you really couldn't make me feel much worse toward him, either. I love him, but it's hard to hold my tongue when he starts laughing at us poor tax-paying suckers. He really thinks it's because he's more deserving that the government thinks he awesome enough to work for them and earn so much.
Unemployment in the District of Columbia itself is 12% - a bit higher than the national rate. Just Google "DC unemployment rate" to see for yourself. That said, you could make a very good argument that the problem is not unemployment, but rather that a significant proportion of that 12% is unemployable.
The low relative unemployment in the surrounding counties is certainly tied to the gov't, but the education levels are very high as well, and as we've seen in numerous articles already: this recession is, from a structural standpoint, primarily affecting blue collar males.
There is a large and growing group of people who benefit so greatly from expanded government that the benefits greatly outweight any additional taxes they have to pay as a result of such expansion. Many, but not all of them, are in the DC area...many of them are actual; government employees, but others are members of what I call the "extended government." See my post paying higher taxes can be very profitable.
Being a government worker in this day and age is nothing more than government patronage. You are part of a public employees union. Why the hell do unions like these exist? It's offensive on its face. These people are the leeches for which we pay. They get gold plated benefits, they get prevailing wages, they get the finest government has to offer with the unions backing and collective bargaining powers. People like me don't get shit. We earn our way through. We are our own unions and we get no assurances at all like these blood sucking leeches do. Oh yeah, no recession in DC, well no shit. The body politic keeps itself fat bloated and happy spending our money on their pork and pet projects while the folks down below are struggling to make ends meet.
Civil servitude in this day an age is a damn blight. I'm tired of people not pointing this out and shaming these frauds for the way they've gamed the system. Why in the name of fuck are there teachers unions who end up being state employees? Why are there unions in government at all? Who is the largest employer in this country? THE FEDERAL AND STATE GOVERNMENTS that's who and we all wonder where the hell our monies are going too? It's an outrage. End public employee/civil service unions now.
I honestly am beginning to believe that almost anything is possible in this nation, in time.
I'm close behind you. After watching a few minutes of Ed Schultz the other night, along with the few moments I've caught Rachel Maddow and Keith Olberman, the lefties would be there cheering them on.
Helen,
You know you could have shortened this to one sentence: "Nero fiddles while Rome burns. " 'Nuff said.
I made the same point elsewhere and met with comments about the DoD and contractors, etc. Like Dr. H, the point is that there is no recession in the Beltway.
As a real estate investor, I can tell you that the one market that hasn't participated in the real estate downturn is... wait for it... The District of Columbia. Government may not be good business, but it's big business.
"The average pay for the nation's 1.9 million federal workers is a little over $71,000, with the 372,041 federal workers in the Washington area earning an average of $94,047. The average salary for the nation's 108 million private-sector workers is $50,028."
Not for nothing but this often-quoted annual study only looks at average salaries which is not an accurate indicator of true private versus public sector salaries. Average private sector salaries include low-paying minimum wage jobs (fast food, housekeeping, unskilled manual labor, etc.) which are all contracted-out in the federal government. Because of this wages for federal government workers are artificially high when compared to the private sector. Any real study is going to be a job for job comparison which for some reason they say is simply to hard to do.
It's not, of course, but then if they did that the results wouldn't fit their narrative of the overpaid government worker, would it?
Not everyone who lives in DC works for the government. In fact, according to the nat. journal, 25.9% of dc residents work for the government. A friend in DC has been out of work since last June. Tell him there's no recession.
It's fun, I guess to pick on government workers but in the real world a neighbor works for the government -- he's an MD who does medical research for the FDA. Another is a lawyer who works in the patent office and a third is a researcher with the Smithsonian.
If you don't want any government or any government workers, then what you want is Haiti.
Peter
OurBroker.com
Yep, never fails. As soon as one of the wealth producers complains, the wealth consumers come out of the woodwork and tell us reasons why those salaries aren't really as big as they look. We hear about scientists at the CDC, and researchers at the Smithsonian.
It's just a different version of "you proles should be happy that I'm willing to do this very very very important job".
The sense of entitlement and blindness to the concerns of regular Americans by government employees makes Marie Antoinette look compassionate by comparison.
So, Ronnie, you want to get rid of the Patent Office, the FDA and the Smithsonian?
Yes or no.
Peter
The Smithsonian does next to nothing for most of America.
Under Obama, I seriously doubt that the FDA and the Patent Office are going to do much good for America either.
So, at this point, I think we could probably dispose of them.
Unfortunately, that is not where the big savings could be realized. We need to get rid of ALL the DoD labs (the have NO competence any longer - they have been gutted), get rid of the HEW operations under whatever label they are operating today because they are all unconstitutional, get rid of the BLM, etc.
The US Patent Office is the only government agency/office - aside from the IRS - that brings in more money than it takes.
The patent fees, maintenance fees and all the rest generate more money than the Patent Office pays for salaries, buildings, overhead and everything else.
Is bringing in money the measure of the value of a government office? Why?
Are not government offices supposed to provide some sort of service to the nation? Otherwise, why do they exist, except for themselves.
The patent office has to do the detailed work of dealing with patents (and trademarks).
The patentee is providing enough information that someone can build his invention using the description and drawings. In return, he gets a monopoly for 20 years from the date of filing (usually around 17 years from the issue date).
Otherwise, lots and lots and lots of information would be lost because people would go the "trade secret route" if they can. That is very easy with integrated circuits, obfuscated software, chemical compositions and lots of other products.
He simply doesn't tell anyone how he does it. When he dies, that information dies with him. When he gets a patent, anyone can make and sell that invention after the patent period has passed.
All of this information is cataloged in the form of patents.
Patents are very useful to society.
I can provide several other reasons, but that will suffice for now. Important Dr.D is out for a fight, not out to get insight.
Sometimes you can find a solution to a problem that is vexing you by doing a patent search. You don't have to reinvent the wheel. The world patent system is an immense treasure. That's the whole point - it coaxes all of the information out of the inventor in return for a relatively short period of exclusive use.
Anyone who disputes that has no idea of how the modern engineering world works.
Fantasy: If you don't want any government or any government workers, then what you want is Haiti.-Peter G. Miller
Reality: Haiti has government and government workers.
More fantasy: ...you want to get rid of the Patent Office, the FDA and the Smithsonian?-Peter G. Miller
Reality Check: Let's look at just one of the premises buried within your rhetorical question, Peter. Are you seriously claiming that those three institutions (only one of which is authorized under the U.S. Constitution) excuse the existence of the entire Federal Government?
Yes or no.
Micha says: Let's look at just one of the premises buried within your rhetorical question, Peter. Are you seriously claiming that those three institutions (only one of which is authorized under the U.S. Constitution) excuse the existence of the entire Federal Government?
Yes or no.
Yes. Think of the alternative. Do your kids really want lead-flavored toys? Do you not want patent monopolies? Are there any private entities that can substitute for the Smithsonian -- which is more than a bunch of museums?
As to Haiti, there are not enough government workers to create an effective government because the country collects minimal taxes. It's a place where the "less government" ideal is in place. To both want less government and then to complain about the obvious result confuses cause and effect.
All the best,
Peter
Peter, there's plenty of waste in the government. Entire departments don't need to be there.
Ask me if I would want to get rid of the Department of Education.
Go ahead, ask me.
Aside from all the money they account for in salaries, I remember there was an audit a while back in which they simply ... didn't know what happened to around 600 million dollars.
I know that's just peanuts on the Federal scale, but still.
I bet I could continue to live my life without the Department of Education. In fact, I RESENT that my tax dollars are going towards a pumped-up government office that churns out left-wing crap. It overpays for "studies" that confirm what it wants to confirm.
There are not only lots of other departments like that, there are lots of EMPLOYEES who are overpaid for what they do. Lots and lots and lots. It adds up, and it's not fair to the people who are measured by what they produce in the private sector.
Haiti is just a typical third-world government that is full of corruption.
Lean, efficient government FREE OF CORRUPTION would produce the opposite effect that you see in Haiti.
The city of Detroit, Michigan, has a huge, bloated, corrupt local government. They are all on the take there. A councilwoman was just arrested there for taking bribes - AGAIN. Detroit is probably worse than Haiti in many places.
No, bloated governments that take and take and take from the private sector people are not the answer.
JG writes, "No, bloated governments that take and take and take from the private sector people are not the answer."
Sure. We agree. The issue is a little different. The question is where do you draw the line.
For instance. Imagine that your dentist is a capitalist and unregulated. Imagine also that to maximize profits your dentist uses one drill for all of his patients, a drill he doesn't clean.
Is that okay, or should there be some rules? If there are to be rules then how can they be enforced without some form of government authority?
Just something to chew on....
All the best,
Peter
Do you want bloated government with exaggerated salaries like in Detroit, Michigan, Peter G. Miller?
And save me the "all the best" crap and obfuscation crap. Just talk like a normal person, please.
"If there are to be rules then how can they be enforced without some form of government authority?"
-----
I'm not in favor of anarchy. I doubt anyone here is.
That's a wild goose chase and a straw man, and I have no idea why you are suggesting that people here are anarchists. Do you believe that yourself? Otherwise, why are you taking that route?
Dopey.
How about if your dentist is unregulated, but he is also ethical. Therefore he self regulates, and does right by his patients. Can the Left imagine such a possibility, or must everything be done through coercion?
If the US Department of Education simply ceased to exist, it would not affect me one whit. It would also not affect my nephew who is in grade school one whit. It would not affect his parents one whit. It would not affect US competitive capability one whit. It would not have any negative effects I can think of.
But billions are flowing to its overpaid affirmative action people there.
Hell, give them a raise.
I think I write like a normal person. For instance, I don't use the term "obfuscation" in my postings.
Peter
"Therefore he self regulates, and does right by his patients."
----
And there are other options, such as self-regulating professional associations that don't involve heavy-handed government enforcement. In fact, they produce a superior result in the case of the professions (at least that can be argued).
"For instance, I don't use the term "obfuscation" in my postings."
----------
OK, Dude.
I remain,
with all the best,
and sincerely,
Your JG
JG writes and says, "And there are other options, such as self-regulating professional associations that don't involve heavy-handed government enforcement. In fact, they produce a superior result in the case of the professions (at least that can be argued)."
I guess you are unfamiliar with the efforts of many associations to restrict trade prior to the criminalization of the Sherman Anti-Trust Act in the 1970s. For instance, optometrists were not allowed to advertise. That was sure good for those with established practices and fixed prices.
Peter
JG --
Fair enough.
All the best,
Peter
"For instance, optometrists were not allowed to advertise."
----
Same with lawyers. They sued in the 1970s and won the right to advertise. I don't know if the current advertisements for tort lawyers - for instance with a guy with a crutch in one hand and a bag with dollar signs on it in the other hand - are an improvement, but whatever.
That is a fairly minor detail. Bar associations are still regulating lawyers, and lawyers can arguably provide better regulation of other lawyers. Even if the point is arguable, it is a valid alternative to heavy-handed general government action.
Peter..."I guess you are unfamiliar with the efforts of many associations to restrict trade prior to the criminalization of the Sherman Anti-Trust Act in the 1970s. For instance, optometrists were not allowed to advertise."
1)Not sure what you're referring to by "criminalization"...there were certainly criminal antitrust prosecutions prior to the 1970s, such as the famous electrical industry case of the 1950s.
2)Re optometrists & advertising...actually, many industries try to *use* government regulation & licensing to minimize competition. Apparently there are some states, for example, where you have to be licensed in order to be an *interior decorator*. Vitally important to protect the public from bad color choices!...
And the INVASION continues... http://www.BorderInvasionPics.com
Dr. Helen -
And I'm sure ILLEGAL ALIENS are supplying much of the labor at the hotels,etc.
A recent Town Meeting was held about 20 minutes from D.C. Please See "ANTI-AMNESTY BLACK GROUP CALLED KLAN" on youtube.
It's a short MUST SEE clip.
caillou is a whiney little proto-pussy.
Actually, the Patent Office is about the worst example a tax-eater (aka public employee) can cite. Unlike most of the Federal government, the Patent Office is actually mentioned in the US Constitution.
However, the government apologists here want us to believe that every public employee is sacred, is brilliant, is keeping us from dying of disease and starvation, and that's simply a lie.
Yes, there is a demonstrated need for the Food & Drug Act - an issue we resolved as a society generations ago. But just because some of the functions of the CDC or FDA are necessary for public health, doesn't mean we need HUD or the Dept. of Education.
The defenders of public employees here want us to accept that just because there's a need for the Post Office (I also have no problem subsidizing the USPS since that, too, is a constitutionally mandated government function) we have to keep paying 2 million executive branch employees twice as much in pay and benefits as the taxpayers who support those 2 million make.
It's just unsustainable. Eventually, we'll get tired of it and like that school superintendent, we'll just fire your asses.
Sure, you think by then you'll have enough entrenched power to preserve your jobs, but thank God that the founding fathers put the US House members up for direct vote every two years.
Eventually, we citizens will just default on your golden pensions. Whattayagonnado, call the police on us?
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