Are there really no black school shooters?
Not according to Van Jones, the Special Advisor for Green Jobs at the White House Council on Environmental Quality, who states that only white kids shoot up suburban schools:
I guess Van Jones never heard of Nicholas Elliot. But I have. During my research for my book on school shootings, The Scarred Heart: Understanding and Identifying Kids Who Kill,
I described Elliot's case. He was a black sixteen year old male who attended a Christian Academy. He was quite shy and taunted and teased by classmates. On December 16, 1988, Nicholas came to school with a semiautomatic pistol and two hundred rounds of ammunition and entered a classroom. He opened fire, killing one teacher and wounding another. Luckily, his gun jammed before he could accomplish a bigger mass shooting. At his trial, the psychiatrist who evaluated Nicholas testified that was a "pressure cooker" who was unable to express his feelings and exploded after being tortured by classmates.
Maybe next time Jones opens his mouth, he should try to get his facts straight. But then, what can we expect from someone who thought 9/11 was an inside job?
Update: Jones quits.
"You've never seen a Columbine done by a black child. Never. They always say, 'We can't believe it happened here. We can't believe it's these suburban white kids.' It's only them. Now, a black kid might shoot another black kid. He's not going to shoot up the whole school."
I guess Van Jones never heard of Nicholas Elliot. But I have. During my research for my book on school shootings, The Scarred Heart: Understanding and Identifying Kids Who Kill,
I described Elliot's case. He was a black sixteen year old male who attended a Christian Academy. He was quite shy and taunted and teased by classmates. On December 16, 1988, Nicholas came to school with a semiautomatic pistol and two hundred rounds of ammunition and entered a classroom. He opened fire, killing one teacher and wounding another. Luckily, his gun jammed before he could accomplish a bigger mass shooting. At his trial, the psychiatrist who evaluated Nicholas testified that was a "pressure cooker" who was unable to express his feelings and exploded after being tortured by classmates. Maybe next time Jones opens his mouth, he should try to get his facts straight. But then, what can we expect from someone who thought 9/11 was an inside job?
Update: Jones quits.
posted by Helen at 11:05 AM
43 Comments:
This has nothing to do with his beliefs regarding 9/11. Van Jones is a straight up racist.
I guess he forgot about Wayne Williams who killed a bunch of black kids but he did it one at a time. Also, as has been mentioned before, in Africa the reasonable blacks kill entire villages, men, women and children with machettis. No predisposition to violence in blacks! Riiiight!!!!
This link says he's white: http://www.knowgangs.com/school_resources/timeline/1980_1989/12.php
I don't know the answer, I just got interested enough to google for him and found that.
randian posted my own thoughts:
"This has nothing to do with his beliefs regarding 9/11. Van Jones is a straight up racist."
Kinda like the tree that falls down in the woods and no one is there to witness it, are black kids who shoot up schools and no one reports it.
Does Jones have anything to say about all the other shootin-up of other gang-bangers and innocent bystanders that black youths do? Or what about all that rapin' and pillagin' of white folk that these black youths do?
I guess those don't count, because they're getting back at The Man. Or something.
"Does Jones have anything to say about all the other shootin-up of other gang-bangers and innocent bystanders that black youths do?"
Or the 60% of all murders in New York City that his cousins commit?
Here, the NY Times illustrates the epidemic of black murders in New York City over the last six years, where they've killed 2,112 people.
Only Al Queda has killed more people in New York City over that time period.
NY Times graphic showing 2,112 people murdered by blacks in New York City:
http://projects.nytimes.com/crime/homicides/map?ref=nyregion
Astronaut Jones is just another indoctrinated Ivy League liberal. Just like all those ones talking about that white loner DC "Sniper".
How many killings have there been by black kids shooting other black kids in majority black schools over some implied insult, or girlfriend poaching, or bullying, or gang affiliation? How many murders of black students have been perpetrated by black non-students over bad drug deals or sheer meanness? These are things our vaunted MSM don't cover in depth (or do cosmetic coverage with 30-second video/sound bytes and then forget, because it's inner-city schools/students after all).
These murders don't show up as school-closing, mass-mourning evening news bytes. They are one-or-two-or-three-body events in a part of America that doesn't provide a lot of viewership or revenue.
I'm the last person to excuse the many failings of the black community, but I do think a whole lot of their baggage has to do with the stupid excuses liberal white America has given them.
If a black kid kills our society regards it as another day in the hood and not worth worrying about. If a white kid kills then everyone gets excited. Racism, pure and simple.
White mass murderers simply command a bigger news audience.
White mass murderers simply command a bigger news audience.
Sorry...
My computer hiccuped.
I was searching for a link for this high school shooting at Henry Ford High School in Detroit last year,
http://www.clickondetroit.com/news/17735433/detail.html
and I found out that the previous year
WXYZ TV is reporting:
Detroit police have arrested four people at Henry Ford High School after responding to reports of gunmen inside the building. One suspect remains on the run.
http://blog.mlive.com/michigan/2007/06/henry_ford_high_school_under_l.html
Guys like Jones say what they say because they are so arrogant they think that nobody will ever call them out on their bullshit.
To second Ronnie, just Google news for Detroit + School + shooting to find dozens of shootings on school grounds, or within the schools or very near the schools and deliberately aimed at students.
The yearly toll has to be a dozen or more.
J bowen --
The page you linked to says the shooter was white -- but notice that the shooter supposedly was reacting to someone making a "racist" comment to / about him.
In a white on white shooting that would be a huge stretch.
VJ must not know anything about Baltimore
Teen gets 100 years in school shooting
Ex-Randallstown High student is convicted of assault there after a charity game last year; 'Shocked a suburban community'; One person partially paralyzed, three others wounded in attack
http://www.baltimoresun.com/news/maryland/bal-te.randallstown28jan28,0,6965583.story
Don't get me started!
Seriously.
No matter what position anyone here thinks about anything going on in the country, there is only one topic of public discourse that sends me through the f-ing roof, and that is the 9/11 conspiracy theories.
People who entertain the notion that this country was blown up by its own government should be beaten like baby Harp seals with hickory axe handles so they don't contaminate the rest of the population.
No offense. Sorry to have barged in.
But that is one topic that makes me want to truly taste human flesh.
J. Bowen,
Thanks for providing your link--but Nicholas Elliot was described as an African American. Here is a link to the book "School Shootings: What Parents and Educators needs to know..." that has more on the case:
http://books.google.com/books?id=UEVWCHCuckMC&pg=PA77&lpg=PA77&dq=nicholas+elliott+school+shooter&source=bl&ots=L4RmjD1QDK&sig=SNmJvP5Yaco7Apcs0Rj_KKNkkyQ&hl=en&ei=uNmiSumqKpCNtgey7bX1Dw&sa=X&oi=book_result&ct=result&resnum=9#v=onepage&q=&f=false
This is somewhat related. The police in Jericho Ar. shot the fire chief, in court, during an argument over a traffic ticket. Jericho is a suburb of Memphis and is 93% black. There are no pictures with news story, but what race do you think they are. If adults do it, why not students?
Randallstown isn't Baltimore.
Yeah Cham the fact is it is a day in the life. I live in the hood 10 years in Chicago. Near West Side. Roosevelt and Damen. It was relatively rare for a white person to kill a white person. Blacks killed blacks all the time. Same for Hispanics. Before I left on my block we were up to a murder every two weeks.
Cham,
black kid shoots a black kid at school = dog bites man
white kid shoots a white kid at school = man bites dog
It's not news when a black kid shoots another black kid at school because blacks are responsible for the vast majority of murders in this country and are on average an order of magnitude more likely to commit a violent crime than a white. This fact is why when one more black on black occurs, it doesn't create that much of a fervor. It's like reporting the sun rise. Black culture in America lionizes violence and degenerates many blacks into violent short sighted people.
However, when a white kid goes into a school and shoots it up, that's news because it rarely happens. Whites don't off each other in record numbers.
In 2005, the homicide rate for black male teens was 59.9 per 100,000. The rate homicide rate for non-Hispanic white males was 3.5 per 100,000. BLACKS ARE 17 TIMES MORE LIKELY TO KILL THAN WHITES.
The racism is ignoring the fact that whites are far more peaceful and less violent than blacks. The racism is assuming the blacks and whites are equally violent. The racism is being surprised when someone points out these obvious facts.
Dr H, JAL - I don't doubt either of you. I'm just noting that the top of the page as of today says the killer was white, and maybe someone of Dr. H's stature can get them to fix it.
Incidentally, there is at least one other commenter here that goes by J. Bowen. Despite many trips here from Glenn's site, this has been the first post I've commented on.
Search the google news archive for the "The Free-Lance Star - Oct 25, 1989"
First page - article titled "Prosecutor: Teen to plead guilty in killing"
Ninth paragraph (or thereabouts) - "Police said the boy, who is black, was upset because of a racial slur from a 17-year-old white classmate."
http://news.google.com/newspapers?nid=1298&dat=19891025&id=OGcQAAAAIBAJ&sjid=xYsDAAAAIBAJ&pg=4640,1441907
I don't believe trying to correct the http://www.knowgangs.com link information is Dr. Helen's responsibility. It's enough that she published accurate information.
spinning school shottings for a racist agenda? How dare he...
Sigh.
I knew the family of the Red Lake school shooter...and one of the teachers....he was of course Native American...
But did anyone notice that when Van Jones "celbrated" the LA riots, he was celebrating a race war against Korean store owners?
Don't get me started!
...
No offense. Sorry to have barged in.
But that is one topic that makes me want to truly taste human flesh.
Sorry to take this back off topic (and I'm sure I'm going to get blasted simply for even entertaining this conversation (especially in the way that I'm going to do it)), but why would anybody not believe that the government was capable of such a thing (I'm not concerned with the validity of the theories in question, but rather with the question I just asked)? Why, given all the historical evidence, would anybody believe that any government would not do such a thing? It wasn't more than a half century ago when plans for a false-flag operation involving attacks made on the US by US covert ops were drawn up by high-ranking military officials. Does anybody actually believe that the people in government today are in any way more honest and/or "noble" than the people who've occupied seats in American governments for all of American history?
That aside, where's the proof that blacks are responsible for the vast majority of murders in this country Ken? Your stats on the likelihood of blacks versus whites committing violent crimes may or may not be accurate, but such statistics wouldn't necessarily equate to blacks being responsible for the majority of murders in this country because A) not all violent crimes are murder and because B) blacks only account for 15% or so of the entire population. You may or may not be correct in your assertion, but I think you're going to have to provide some proof to back up your claim.
tasting human flesh?
helen hits the "r" word hot button.
people aren`t scared of gangs of white folks cruising around in late model mini-vans and suvs, now are they?
false-flag operations, covert ops, secret government plots?
how about a hundred and fifty years since the abolition os slavery?
people aren`t scared of gangs of white folks cruising around in late model mini-vans and suvs, now are they?
Most of the average person's fear of black people is unwarranted in my experience. I live in a predominantly white town that has as a neighbor a predominantly black town. I know many people from both sides of the river (that separates the two towns). Their concerns are, for the most part, all the same. The policies that we'd like to see implemented to affect the changes that we want might be different, but our concerns are largely the same. Do the white folks on my side of the river get nervous when they see a car full of young black people driving around in certain neighborhoods? Sure. Heck, even I've called the police once before when I noticed a vehicle late at night driving around my neighborhood in a suspicious manner (it turned out to be the newspaper delivery guy). But (and perhaps this is where my bias comes in as I don't live in a very racist or dangerous place), the trepidation that many people around here feel when seeing cars full of strange black kids is more based on fear of what young people do than on what black people do (as many of the crimes around here are property crimes and drug crimes).
false-flag operations, covert ops, secret government plots?
http://www.smeggys.co.uk/operation_northwoods.php
And let's not forget this.
J. Bowen,
Remove the race element from the Tuskegee Experiment (and btw the longest term employee of that program was a black public health nurse, and numerous black doctors participated) and at its start it was morally indistinguishable from a modern placebo study. They were testing toxic and not very effective treatments vs no treatment at all. Don't placebo studies fail to treat some people?
Where Tuskegee got into shaky moral ground was because after the initial period of the study they continued to not treat people, and of course, the deception. The founder of the study resigned in protest over the continued deception, but interestingly, none of the black medical professionals involved with the study resigned in protest.
Where the experiment got morally indefensible was in 1947, when antibiotics first became widely available. Before then, there were no real effective treatments for syphilis.
No doubt the experiment was started in an era rife with eugenics and racialist attitudes, but many, many important historical medical experiments have been done that would be considered unethical by contemporary standards.
Walter Reed's yellow-fever experiments come to mind.
Tuskegee has become a cudgel that folks like you like to wield.
It's become conventional wisdom in the black community that not only were the subjects in Tuskegee not treated but that they were deliberately infected with syphilis, which is a complete lie.
One black acquaintance of mine refused to believe this wasn't true and said, with a straight face, "how would they find so many men with syphilis?".
Tuskegee was wrong, but on a scale with Walter Reed at one end and Josef Mengele at the other, I'd put Tuskegee closer to Reed than Mengele.
j. Bowen,
The rate of murders for male black teens is 17 times higher than that of non-hispanic white male teens. Blacks make up about 13% of the population, whereas non-hispanic whites make up about 65%. Thus, for every murder committed by a white person, three and a half are committed by a black person, so for male teens, the number of black perpetrated murders per non-hispanic white perpetrated murders is 17*.13/.65 = 3.4 (17 = black murder rate/white murder rate). So excluding the murders committed by Asians, Native Americans and Pacific Islanders, blacks are responsible for more than 75%, almost 80%, of the murders in the US. As for all the murders in the US, to think that blacks do not commit the overwhelming majority of the murders in this country is to think that hispanic whites (14% of US pop), plus Asians and Native Americans and Pacific Islanders (combining to make up less that 6% of the US pop) are awfully murderous. I will concede that hispanic whites are pretty murderous, but I don't know if their murder rate is 17 times that of non-hispanic whites.
Reference for murder rates:
http://www.childtrendsdatabank.org/indicators/70ViolentDeath.cfm
Reference for the population make up of the US:
http://quickfacts.census.gov/qfd/states/00000.html
To get a more detailed look at the differences between the races where crime is concerned google "The Color of Crime", which tabulates and analyzes the FBI stats on crime. You can see in black and white the vast differences beween blacks and whites on crime, even accounting for socioeconomic background.
As for your anecdote about "the trepidation that many people around here feel when seeing cars full of strange black kids is more based on fear of what young people do than on what black people do", come to Baltimore, where I live, and tell me whether or not you fear a car full of young black men more than a car full of young white men. The concensus is pretty clear that you should fear the car full of you black men more. The ability to inspire this fear is a great source of pride for many young black men here in Baltimore. This city goes head to head with DC and Detroit, two other overwhelmingly black cities, as the most murderous cities in the US. Strangely, another source of pride.
How's that for backing up my claim?
I can appreciate being cautious when researching racial differences, but ignoring them or explaining them away with non-representative anecdotes is irresponsible. But the case is pretty clear when it comes to crime and it shouldn't be dismissed.
Regards,
Ken
Um, I live in downtown Baltimore. I fear the cars filled with young white men far more than the ones filled with young black men. Especially the ones driving around Ft. Armistead.
This book says he's black:
Murders In The United States: Crimes, Killers And Victims Of The Twentieth Century
page 184, which you might be able to see here:
http://books.google.com/books?id=gh6q_-Vzc0YC&lpg=PA184&ots=9j2Ol0ZuPa&dq=Nicholas%20Elliott%20school%20gun%20african%20american&pg=PA184#v=onepage&q=Nicholas%20Elliott%20school%20gun%20african%20american&f=false
If that doesn't work do a google search for:
Nicholas Elliot school gun african american
Note: two l in Elliot, not one.
It's not news when a black kid shoots another black kid at school because blacks are responsible for the vast majority of murders in this country and are on average an order of magnitude more likely to commit a violent crime than a white.
I guess I should have waited to respond until I had the time to look up this. According to the FBI, blacks accounted for 37.9% of the murderers in 2007 (if we exclude the black portion of those unknowns) - a difference of about six percentage points from the number of white murderers. While blacks did commit the majority of murders in 2007 (to the tune of about 20% more than whites), the percentage of murders committed by blacks didn't account for anything approaching a "vast" majority.
come to Baltimore, where I live, and tell me whether or not you fear a car full of young black men more than a car full of young white men. The concensus is pretty clear that you should fear the car full of you black men more. The ability to inspire this fear is a great source of pride for many young black men here in Baltimore. This city goes head to head with DC and Detroit, two other overwhelmingly black cities, as the most murderous cities in the US. Strangely, another source of pride.
It's silly to compete for who lives in or near a more dangerous area, but since we're down this road we might as well go further (until we both fall of the edge of the Cliffs of Absurdity). The city to the north and west of here, which is Benton Harbor, MI, which is nowhere near the size of those cities that you listed, is right up there with them as one of the most dangerous cities in America and is much "blacker" than all of them (at 92% black, it is "blacker" than Detroit, which at 81% black is far "blacker" than all of the rest of those cities that you mentioned).
@Cham said... Um, I live in downtown Baltimore. I fear the cars filled with young white men far more than the ones filled with young black men. Especially the ones driving around Ft. Armistead.
__________
If you said the reverse, it would be racist. Then again, you admittedly let skin color factor into your opinion of a stranger, but you did so in the political correct (left wing) way. So there will be no picketing in front of your home demanding an apology.
Trust:
I guess you haven't been treated to the new Aryan Brotherhood yet. Real charmers those kids....coming to a city near you. I'll take any black kid over them any day.
J. Bowen - "According to the FBI, blacks accounted for 37.9% of the murderers in 2007"
Another good comparison to make would be to compare the numbers of murders committed by Hispanic perpetrators with those committed by either black or whites. [I'll give you a moment to take a look at the table again...]
The confused look on your face is quite normal. There is no "Hispanic" category ("Unknown means that the murderer remains unknown, and will most likely break-down in the same racial proportions as for those where the perp is known , although most everyone is well aware that there is NO shortage of Hispanics committing murders.
One of the worst kept government secretes is that, in order to reduce the obvious gap between black and white murder rates, the choice was made to combine the Caucasian and Hispanic numbers into a single deceptively named "white" category. [note that there IS a victim category specifically fro "Hispanic"].
If you look at the "Color Of Crime" publication, an estimate is made after attempting to calculate the Hispanic numbers, that blacks commit around seven times as many murders as do whites.
Sorry, but in my book, that DOES constitute a "vast" majority.
The majority of blacks do not commit violent crimes, let's be clear about that. But, let's also be honest that blacks are the primary perpetrators of violent crimes.
Remember the words of the great Rev. Jesse Jackson, "If I saw a group of BLACK teens coming towards me on the street at night, I would change to the other side". No bias here.
If you look at the "Color Of Crime" publication, an estimate is made after attempting to calculate the Hispanic numbers, that blacks commit around seven times as many murders as do whites.
Sorry, but in my book, that DOES constitute a "vast" majority.
The "Color of Crime" publication, like others, conveniently attempts to calculate for the number of Hispanic whites but also conveniently fails to attempt to account for Hispanic blacks (though it does mention that they are the minority of Hispanics), Creole blacks (of which there are a large number in certain parts of the country (especially along the Gulf coast where most Creole blacks live)), and those of mixed race who don't belong in any of those groups. We can keep going if you like.
My best guess: Jones is a fool and not trustworthy. But the comments here hardly address the issue but instead of mass gun shooting within a school deal with individual killings, Africa and any and all crimes done by kids who are not white. In general, most large scale assault within schools are in fact done by whites. But I maintain that a killing is still a killing and numbers another matter.
And gun control? Ah, no we don't want that sort of thing, right?
@J Bowen: Trying to keep this brief and to the point...
Yes, our gov't can be spectacularly corrupt, but the whole 9/11 theory transcends mere corruption, evil and malice; it is a stellar example of the suspension of human behavior on a grand scale.
Beginning with the presumption that 9/11 WAS an "inside job," and presuming that the perpetrators were in collusion with the White House administration, one has to wonder why two specific groups of people have been utterly quiet on this matter: the FBI and the established news media.
I find it impossible to believe that every one of the FBI agents in this country is so terrified of Skull & Bones or whatever agency of influence that is apparently abrogating the duties of the FBI that they don't storm the White House and haul off GWB to the stockades. Secondly, the news media, our glorious, valiant Seekers After Truth who, with the exception of the religious right a/k/a FoxNews, every last damned one of them is a card-carrying Leftie, and all of whom foamed at the mouth as soon as Bill Clinton dropped his pants (sorry for that imagery) and held up a has-been football player to all of America NON-STOP for almost 18 months for merely killing his ex-wife and a restaurant waiter, SOMEHOW don't feel it's "newsworthy" that a sitting president has brought about mass murder on his own people.
Oh, but three nitwits in upstate New York who cut-and-pasted their little video from snippets off the Internet have unraveled the ENTIRE PLOT! Woodward & Bernstein? No, the only two men to successfully remove a sitting president without using a firearm...they're off having martinis. The revelation of the biggest story since the virgin birth was caught by three 20-something pot-smokers. The same media who salivate over the thought of their precious Pulitzer for Embarrassing the President are ignoring the one story that would, if true and supported by evidence (you know what "evidence" is? The thing Truthers have tons of?) would not only put GWB in front of a firing squad, but eradicate the entire GOP and leave right-wing ideology on the same shelf with Naziism and Holocaust Studies.
This, the Truthers say, is what I am supposed to believe.
Um...no. Wasn't born yesterday. Don't take drugs. Never drank the Kool-Aid.
Inside Job My Fat Hairy Ass.
@slwerner said... The majority of blacks do not commit violent crimes, let's be clear about that. But, let's also be honest that blacks are the primary perpetrators of violent crimes.
__________
That is true.
To quickly, racial "leaders" and others (even well meaning people) point to racism in that. But it really isn't about race. What it is about is the breakdown of the black family. When the illegitimacy rate is removed as a factor, the incarceration disparity between blacks and whites evaporates.
What has happened is blacks, perhaps in a misguided response to a history of racism, have turned to the side of the political spectrum they most associate with policies fighting racism, such as affirmative action (never mind that it was the republican party that opposed slavery and voted in higher percentages for civil rights legislation). Even blacks who are socially conservative, which is most most blacks, vote for the part of big government.
Dependance on big government has broken down families. Unfortunately, due to misguided racial considerations, this has affected blacks in much larger percentages and they suffer accordingly.
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