Saturday, October 18, 2008

"They'll continue to struggle to make it harder for many in our community"

I saw on the local news last night that Social Security benefits are going up 5.8%, rather than the typical 2.5%. What struck me is that some of the seniors were upset about it. Why? They might be pushed into a higher tax bracket or have to pay more for subsidized housing:

We spoke to several seniors who say this could end up costing them more money.

Nancy Walker, 87, lives in subsidized housing.

The additional $63 a month in Social Security will cause her to lose benefits.

"Means i'm gonna pay more for rent for one thing," Grace Lindsey says.

It will cost her rent to increase because her income's going up, her food stamps will decrease and she may not continue to receive 20% off Medicaid.

"They'll continue to struggle make it harder for many in our community," Walker told Volunteer TV News.

The yearly adjustment in Social Security checks is linked to government inflation figures.

But advocacy groups say it's far short of what retirees need to keep up with rising living costs.

Charles Stevens is retired from the Navy.

He says the extra monthly income will put him into another tax bracket.

"It means we've got to pay more taxes, but we're grateful for what we can get," Stevens says.


Have you noticed with government handouts and "entitlements" you can't win? If they pay too little, people complain, but when they go up, they do the same...

Update: Jason at Countercolumn has further thoughts on Social Security increases.

35 Comments:

Blogger Francis W. Porretto said...

This is a stunning comment on the entitlement mentality. There's no sense of the costs to others on the part of the beneficiaries, just a limitless demand for more -- at no cost to them.

Social Security, once sold to the American people as an "insurance" program, has engendered the fattest and most malignant sense of entitlement ever observed in these United States. It simply has to go. Where are the statesmen who are willing to stand up and say so, come what may?

6:12 AM, October 18, 2008  
Blogger Cham said...

If being given more money by the federal government is such a hardship then people should be given the option not to receive it. Perhaps some sort of interactive website could be set up so that people can opt out of receiving social security. That way it would be a win win for all.

8:17 AM, October 18, 2008  
Blogger Helen said...

Cham,

Good point. If upset seniors will be pushed into another tax bracket or lose other benefits, they could have the option to roll their 5.8% back into the system for others. I doubt there would be a single taker for this system, however.

8:50 AM, October 18, 2008  
Blogger TMink said...

"There's no sense of the costs to others on the part of the beneficiaries, just a limitless demand for more -- at no cost to them."

Correct. It is an infantile approach to the world. And if the government teat runs dry, then it is bad because hunger is all that is known.

Trey

9:42 AM, October 18, 2008  
Blogger Mary said...

Well, I don't know helen. If the increase is indeed going to end up costing them more, I suspect several of the more saavy would opt out -- saving themselves more money in the long run.

It's kind of sad the need some of you have to beat up on an 87-year-old woman though, without knowing her circumstances.

Sure, she may be well to do, with professional offspring children who could afford her to live with them. But...

what if she is a childless widow of a US vet? One that perhaps sacrificed to fight for his country, and later worked hard and paid into the system. If so, then she is drawing off his benefits (or perhaps worked for her own). Hard to say she's receiving a government "handout", just payback for something perhaps someone spent years of hard labor paying into...

I'm all for attacking the Social Security "cheats". Or revamping the system to make it "needs tested." But people, please do take care to judge so quickly.

Perhaps that 87-year-old was just a cranky forgetful old woman having a bad day and needing something to complain about. Perhaps she was saying what the reporter wanted to hear. Perhaps somebody, for whatever reason, has her genuinely in fear of losing her housing due to the increase in her benefits. Whatever -- she's 87.

I think if you really feel strongly, she should urge the seniors you know to forgo their benefits. Then, when you become eligible, decline them yourself. Then, you are free to judge. As it is, this is supposed to be set up as an insurance system, you pay in -- you draw out.

Only the younger-than-boomers who never see a penny of what they put in should be able to complain (when they're out of luck years later.) Otherwise, work to reform the system, but take care friends not to make all seniors the enemies. Some surely have contributed greatly to this county, and have paid more dues than perhaps you could imagine.

11:43 AM, October 18, 2008  
Blogger Roci said...

Fear of a higher tax bracket? where does he live, 1975? Since tax brackets only apply to income, he must have additional taxable income. The higher taxes only get applied to the marginal increase over the bracket boundary.

12:20 PM, October 18, 2008  
Blogger SGT Ted said...

The idea that she is going to pay more taxes is suspect. I bet she qualifies for the "Earned Income Tax Credit" which is just a another welfare payment, as people who wind up getting all of their withholding back also get *more* than they paid in. She's not "losing" anything.

The article is long on whining and short on actual analysis.

12:25 PM, October 18, 2008  
Blogger SGT Ted said...

It's not about seeing seniors as enemies, but making sure the truth gets reported, rather than an appeal to emotion. Social security doesn't get taxed unless you are making ALOT more in other income.

1:31 PM, October 18, 2008  
Blogger Dogwood said...

Cham,

I would gladly opt out of Social Security in return for a check in the amount I've paid into the system, plus interest.

Also, I want to be absolved of any requirement to continue paying into the system.

2:07 PM, October 18, 2008  
Blogger Roci said...

I would be satisfied to just opt out. They can keep what they have already stolen. Working, saving and investing what I would have paid in my remaining years, i still be be ahead.

3:25 PM, October 18, 2008  
Blogger soupmonkey said...

It amazes me how little Americans understand about their own government.
Yes, you will lose government monies if you exceed the rate Uncle Sugar sets on one freebie, while attempting to take advantage of another freebie.
What your uncle gives with one hand, he takes with the other.
So Stop doing it!

7:28 PM, October 18, 2008  
Blogger Sid said...

It is a huge example of the Law of Unintended Consequences. Other examples abound. See the State of California, Banks, and New Orleans.

All have grown to expect the government to bail them out. There was not promise to do so and no legislation on point. It is just the manifestation of an unintended consequence. Everyone believes that, due to past actions, the government is supposed to bail them out.

We have an entitlement mindset. Ending it, getting US society focused on self-sufficiency will be the biggest challenge of upcoming generations.

9:58 AM, October 19, 2008  
Blogger br549 said...

The large print giveth, the small print taketh away. There is nothing new under the sun.

10:08 AM, October 19, 2008  
Blogger Ed said...

Roci said...

I would be satisfied to just opt out. They can keep what they have already stolen. Working, saving and investing what I would have paid in my remaining years, i still be be ahead.

======

Same here. My income has exceeded the SS max the past 5 years, so I've sent them a good chunk of change. Even so, I would still take your proposal.

3:27 PM, October 19, 2008  
Blogger Doom said...

As one who lives on such incomes, I must say, I would gladly take a decline in my income, and a significant one, if that money went directly to lowering the national debt, or excess expenditures this year. I would want to see more though, too. If I thought the government would become more frugal, cut everything (real cuts, not freezes, budget trickery, or such), and actually begin shrinking, I would be willing to give up a lot of my "income".

As for sympathy, however, that is somewhat limited in this way. When the government raises one part of it's allotments, the rest of the programs usually fall in line, and swiftly. What ends up happening is an across-the-board spending increase and allowance, from fuel subsidies to rent allowances to funding levels. I mean, 5.8% increases aren't kept to SS, they go on to other state and federal "relief" systems. As well, SS was not supposedly ever meant to be a stand alone retirement program. While they were young, they fiddled, now they are unhappy? Some are faultless, some really did have no choice, most smoked it, ate it, drank it, and now don't have it.

We do live in a very caring nation, sometimes too caring. Any system that is this abusive leaves those of us in need in trouble, when the thing eventually explodes. And, I cannot complain about people being expected to lift such tax loads being outraged. Actually, it is worse. With a proposed national health care system, one of the first things a government health system will do is... find ways to lower costs. And a government without trust in God becomes a dangerous government, to those who cost or even do not produce. Add populism to the mix, and thing could get nasty. Add in also that the rest of the great 8 are waiting for our health care systems to "catch up" in order to, as a group, cut costs without casting aspersions about morality and ethics, and the future can look nightmarish.

I often honestly wonder if the long term hope of SS, pun intended, and the socialism that goes with it, is population reduction. They just have to set the hook well enough first. Is the fix in? They certainly have the candidate, Manchurian I propose, for the job.

7:33 PM, October 19, 2008  
Blogger Magson said...

I dated a lady who made use of Medicaid, as she worked in a hair salon and didn't make much, etc.

She moved from there to a higher paying job as a data entry person, but it was still low enough that she qualified for Medicaid still and chose to use that instead of paying for insurance via her company's group program.

Then her company gave her $4000/year raise. And all she could do was complain that it was going to make her lose her Medicaid.

I don't date her anymore. She got married this past summer to a guy who makes enough for her to be a stay-at-home. I pity him his bank account. . . .

3:08 AM, October 20, 2008  
Blogger Toby said...

This is why handing the government more control over our lives make no sense. The world is freaking complicated. The larger the system, the less it will be able to take into account those complexities. The bad unintended consequences of any action taken by a government-run program will be bigger and effect more people.

Of course, for way too many people the solution is never to limit government's power, but to start a new program to address the previous one's shortcomings. Uhg.

11:03 AM, October 20, 2008  
Blogger Mark said...

I believe I can speak (write?) with some authority about Social Security, my Dad was disabled when I was about ten (in the mid 1970's) and my family lived on Workers Comp and Disability Social Security from then on. My parents (and many like them) bought into the whole idea that they were getting back what they paid into Social Security for lo those many years. Yeah, I know it didn't work that way, but that's the way it was sold to people, as a retirement plan where your money was put away for you to use when you retired. I can remember my father insisting that what he was getting wasn't charity, it was his money that the government put aside for him.

Lots of people from that era (both my parents were born in 1919) thought of Social Security the same way, it was their pension/retirement/disability insurance plan.

12:49 PM, October 21, 2008  
Blogger highlander said...

As a 70-year old, I understand and appreciate where these people in their "golden years" are coming from, but I find it ineffably sad that such minutiae as a few dollars more or less in benefits can become such a major issue for them. Life ought to be so much more.

Certainly for most of them, these are the consequences of a lifetime of poor choices, and I agree, that does not entitle them to a larger chunk of your hard-earned income. But as Mary points out, there are other reasons why some elderly people are living on the brink, and not all of those reasons are their fault.

Those of you who are young can be critical of them if you like, but I think it would be better for you in the long run to learn from their example.

The fact that it's easy to put $10 aside for the future means that it's also easy not to. The consequences of a single choice not to save $10 are negligible, but that's not how it works, is it? We don't just choose not do do it once, but rather over and over again, and it's the pattern of those choices made over a lifetime that has either satisfying or devastating consequences.

If you're already doing it, congratulations! If not, well, you know what lies ahead. Social Security is basically a giant Ponzi scheme in which funds from new subscribers are used to make payments to the older ones and create the illusion of success. All Ponzi schemes, however, sooner or later collapse.

It's terribly sad that so many have bought into it. I pray you won't be one of them.

10:29 AM, October 22, 2008  
Blogger tomcal said...

highlander:

Just to expand on you comments, it's not just Social Security. I think most public sector pension plans, such as Calpers, are making long term promises they cannot possibly keep. A good example is California's "3% per year plan" for many public safety workers. A fireman, for example, can work for 30 years accrue a perpetual benefit of 3% of his final salary (adjusted each year for inflation, I believe) for each year worked.

So our fireman can join the dept. at let's say 22, and retire at 52 with essentially a full salary and cost-of-living increases each year for the rest of his life. This happens all over the public sector. It obviously cannot contiue to operate this way forever.

Oh well, who is John Galt?

12:00 PM, October 23, 2008  
Blogger tomcal said...

Ah, I see in this morning's WSJ that Calpers' trust fund has lost 20% of its value since July.

For some reason I felt a perverse pleasure upon reading that news.

12:06 PM, October 23, 2008  
Blogger Todd said...

I am so tired of hearing about social security not being enough. When will people wake up? Social security was never meant to be your ONLY retirement income. It was meant as a supplemental income to help out, not to be your only source of retirement income. If you retire on ONLY social security, you made your own bed and are crying because you have to sleep in it.

5:20 PM, October 23, 2008  
Blogger Simon Kenton said...

I am going to take social security, and 1) use it to employ any of my kids who stays at home with the grandkids (ie, set up a wash whereby I employ them for ~$5K/year, and deposit the $4K in an IRA), or 2) when I cannot do the first, simply invest it in the family trust so they'll get it eventually. Incidentally, the last time I checked, if I could have had my total contribution (ie, mine and 'my employer's') for the final 8 years of my working life and invested it at 8%, I would have gotten more from that investment than I will get from 40 years of working.

It may sound silly or overly dramatic, but I think the social security system is profoundly immoral. You or I would go to jail for setting up a Ponzi scheme like this. My idea is to cleanse that money, and at the same time support social ideals that matter to me.

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