See Jane Hit
Several readers (thanks) have emailed this news story about a group of girls who attacked another girl and posted the video on YouTube and bragged about their crime. Two boys, it was said by news sources, (click on the video to hear the news anchor discuss this) served as lookouts while the beating took place. Notice how times have changed. It used to be the girls serving as accessories to crimes, and now, in some cases, it's the boys.
Why were the girls angry? It seems that the victim, Victoria Lindsay, posted some negative stuff on MySpace about some of her peers and they were upset. Rather than confront her for what she did and talk to her about it, or insist that she take down the MySpace insults, they beat her up and put up the video for the world to see. Many of the news sources asked "why" and had psychiatrists such as this one on Fox News (click on the video in the middle of the page) discuss the "pack mentality" where kids get together and feel more powerful as a group and do things that they might not do alone. The victim's parents blamed the beating on the internet:
While the need to get "shock video" and a pack mentality may play a part in why girls become violent, there is more brewing in these types of girl crimes. Psychologist James Garbarino, author of See Jane Hit: Why Girls Are Growing More Violent and What We Can Do About It,
explains some of the cultural reasons that girls are turning to assaulting others. In the book, Garbarino discusses the "New American Girl":
The ongoing "feminist" mantra of "you go girl" with the culture telling girls that they are both "empowered and entitled" can be a lethal combination. Our society tends to let girls off the hook, and tells them they are not responsible for their actions or society denies that girls and women can engage in violent assaults. This simultaneous denial and acceptance of female violence just feeds into a sense of entitlement for girls as well as a sense that they can do no wrong.
Sometimes, this causes them to go overboard, like in the case described above. Girls are told that it is okay to be angry and physical yet, they do not understand the boundaries of violence. No adult wants to take this on--men are afraid to interact, engage with, or even teach young girls about the boundaries of violence due to fear of sexual harassment or molestation charges and women feel kind of proud that their daughters are so "empowered." So girls do not get the guidance and help that they need in channeling anger and can end up wrecking havoc on others and at the same time, ruin their own lives in the process.
Why were the girls angry? It seems that the victim, Victoria Lindsay, posted some negative stuff on MySpace about some of her peers and they were upset. Rather than confront her for what she did and talk to her about it, or insist that she take down the MySpace insults, they beat her up and put up the video for the world to see. Many of the news sources asked "why" and had psychiatrists such as this one on Fox News (click on the video in the middle of the page) discuss the "pack mentality" where kids get together and feel more powerful as a group and do things that they might not do alone. The victim's parents blamed the beating on the internet:
Her parents blamed the Internet for the incident.
"These Web sites are creating a space for criminal activity, beating, fights," Patrick Lindsay said. "MySpace, MTV's 'Jackass,' they are enticing our children and desensitizing out children. Now, if they create the best shock video, they are the heroes. They think it is top dollar..."
Rubbing his wife's back as she tried to gain her composure, Patrick Lindsay vowed to get justice for their daughter.
"I'm very upset with these Internet sites," he said. "As far as I'm concerned, MySpace is the anti-Christ for children. I'm going to carry this as far as I can.”
While the need to get "shock video" and a pack mentality may play a part in why girls become violent, there is more brewing in these types of girl crimes. Psychologist James Garbarino, author of See Jane Hit: Why Girls Are Growing More Violent and What We Can Do About It,
explains some of the cultural reasons that girls are turning to assaulting others. In the book, Garbarino discusses the "New American Girl":...Girls are hitting people more than in the past, and this represents a challenge to adults charged with responsibility for rearing and teaching those girls.
Second, girls are getting physical and learning the very positive message that their bodies can be physically powerful in ways that are not sexual. These very positive changes in girls result from unleashing them from the traditional bonds of femininity and are evident in assertiveness, participation in sports, and active rather than passive psychological coping strategies...
...more and more of the aggression displayed by girls is physical. This aggression is often displayed in a positive light, both in it's own right and as a positive alternative to relational aggression...
The ongoing "feminist" mantra of "you go girl" with the culture telling girls that they are both "empowered and entitled" can be a lethal combination. Our society tends to let girls off the hook, and tells them they are not responsible for their actions or society denies that girls and women can engage in violent assaults. This simultaneous denial and acceptance of female violence just feeds into a sense of entitlement for girls as well as a sense that they can do no wrong.
Sometimes, this causes them to go overboard, like in the case described above. Girls are told that it is okay to be angry and physical yet, they do not understand the boundaries of violence. No adult wants to take this on--men are afraid to interact, engage with, or even teach young girls about the boundaries of violence due to fear of sexual harassment or molestation charges and women feel kind of proud that their daughters are so "empowered." So girls do not get the guidance and help that they need in channeling anger and can end up wrecking havoc on others and at the same time, ruin their own lives in the process.
Labels: crime, teens, violent kids
posted by Helen at 7:31 AM
47 Comments:
So, we're now at the stage of "girls will be girls" that so outraged the feminist bigots when it was applied to boys.
Splendid.
I think that people are not experiencing healthy attachment as often as in the past. Infants are given to daycare and their attachment needs are just not met on some of the daycares.
So the kids grow up without the normal breaking and inhibiting functions that are developed along with the attachment and the number of sociopaths increases.
It frightens me at night sometimes.
Trey
Take the more emotional gender. The vindictive gender. Teach her that violence and power are OK to use against another. Stir nicely with an over inflated ego. Throw in some jealousy and rage.
This is what you get.
By teaching girls that they should act like boys, even though they are much much more emotional and emotionally imbalanced, and you basically train psychos to go off on each other.
This is the face of "equality".
This is feminism's misinterpretation of what males do.
This is a mess and this lies at the feet of feminist thought and a re-engineered social and educational system.
So, how long before one (or more) of the girls claim that the boys made them do it? Anyone want to take the bet that the boys receive harsher punishments than the girls?
The article you posted to is called "Teen Girls Who Taped Attack For YouTube Could Get Life In Prison". I hope they do get a strong sentence. They have probably escaped punishment and responsibility for most of their lives and now it is time to pay.
Excellent post, Dr. Helen. The last two paragraphs are critically important truths about this incident and I haven't seen them addressed anywhere else in the media.
YouTube and the Internet is certainly making life interesting if nothing else. Before cell phone cameras, kids could sort of play the blame game. If you have enough kids performing a crime they can all point their fingers at their friends and then there is enough confusion to let everybody go with a light slap on the wrist. But the stakes are different with video. In this case the attackers actually used a really nice video camera and then took the time to make a high resolution video for YouTube. I've seen some clips from it and there is definitely assault, and the attackers wouldn't let the victim leave the home so there should be a charge of holding a person against their will, maybe kidnapping.
But what has me scratching me head was why did these kids think it was good idea to make their criminal violations public? I will assume that since one of the perpetrators was a bit concerned that she was going to miss cheerleader practice when they were apprehended that these attackers were clearly not aware the seriousness of their crimes and the possible sentences that go along with them.
When minors get charged as adults their names get published. Which means a quick search will bring every potential employer, every possible college choice up to date on their 2008 indiscretions.
This group is setting itself up as a fine example of how not to use YouTube or MySpace as a video example of how tough you think you are and how you plan to terrorize the other students at your school.
This group of high school students made a number of very bad choices and now they will have to pay very publicly. The question is how many others will follow in their footsteps. I cringe when I think these little angels are going to be tossed into the general prison population, that is not going to be a comfortable place for an upper-middle class cheerleader. Oh well, I guess they are going to grow up real fast.
it would be very interesting to see how the film a clockwork orange or the book would play if it wasnt males but females who stomped the homeless guy.
Would these girls be punished like alex? (i just rewatched that film today)
Young women need to be taught about physical aggression just as much as young men. While not 50/50, there were a number of females in my youth stunt group. They learned the respect for partner and other just like the guys did.
Serket,
Life in prison would be extreme. I certainly don't think they deserve that. People who actually kill others rarely serve this long--not even half of that on average. I do think some punishment is warranted, however. But something fitting to the assault they committed.
"perpetrators was a bit concerned that she was going to miss cheerleader practice when they were apprehended that these attackers were clearly not aware the seriousness of their crimes"
This is because girls & women in general in our society today did not nor do not grow up with any accountability for anything EVER, and I am not exagerrating. I work with them everyday. The schools do not hold them accountable, nor do their parents nor the legal system, not society in general. If caught doing anything even red-handed their response is to either cry or say 'get over it,' & then TRY TO TURN THE BLAME BACK ON YOU.
Ask a female today (face to face- not on the internet- because you want to see the look in her face) "what is accountabilty?" And you will see in their eyes and hear in their response that she does not comprehend the meaning of the word.
Now ask yourself... is this an individual you can trust? Of course not! Which is what makes females today worthless. (In any kind of regard- personal or professional.)
I know what 'accountability' means and I am female (Gen X age). Reality2008, you are clearly speaking about your own reality. Misogeny is only going to fuel more violence in our culture.
Dark poet,
We already know about mysogeny. What is to be done about feminism fueling violence, both domestic (misandric) and like these girls in the video?
"I know what 'accountability' means and I am female"
No you don't know what is means, but you're not lying either, because lying is so ingrained into your nature, you do not even know you are lying.
"Misogeny is only going to fuel more violence in our culture."
I don't hate women, but you hate the truth. What does that make you? A Fraud.
"We already know about mysogeny. What is to be done about feminism fueling violence, both domestic (misandric) and like these girls in the video?"
Don't even bother with her- it's completely hopeless:
A FEMALE GUIDE TO DEBATING WITH A MALE
Stage 1: Turn the discussion into an argument
Stage 2: Change the subject when losing an argument
Stage 3: Never admit to losing an argument even when you’ve lost
Stage 4: Throw insults, call him gay, joke about his penis size etc.
Stage 5: Throw the nearest item at him, saucepans, table lamps etc
Stage 6: Cry
"This is because girls & women in general in our society today did not nor do not grow up with any accountability for anything EVER, and I am not exagerrating. I work with them everyday. The schools do not hold them accountable, nor do their parents nor the legal system, not society in general. If caught doing anything even red-handed their response is to either cry or say 'get over it,' & then TRY TO TURN THE BLAME BACK ON YOU."
This is absolutely, 100% accurate in my experience. You nailed it. I've gotten to the point where I hate working with women. HR rules and laws completely back women in the workplace no matter how insanely they behave. Female misconduct is rationalized or ignored while men must continually walk on eggshells out of fear of getting railroaded out of jobs, promotions, etc., by women's whims and "feelings". Our society believes women are superior just because they're women and the women who always run HR and who frequently hold supervisory positions are fanatical about female superiority. This isn't discussed or even believed by the old fart boomers in the media for the very reasons Dr. Helen discussed in this blog post.
clarification - The blog post I'm referring to in the above comment is the "Ask Dr. Helen" post above this one.
It'll be interesting to see what kinds of criminal charges are brought against the kids and, if convicted*, what kinds of punishment they receive. It'll also be interesting to compare this to similar crimes committed by boys and by racial minorities. Will a bunch of middle class white girls get the same punishment as a bunch of black boys (as an example) who did the same thing? Will pigs fly?
Remember the Barbie Bandits, the two young white girls who robbed a bank? Did you hear their sentence?
A judge Monday sentenced two women dubbed the "Barbie Bandits" and a teller who helped them rob the bank where he worked.
Ashley Miller, convicted of theft and drug distribution, was sentenced to the maximum of 10 years. She has to serve two years behind bars, with the remainder on probation.
She also has to pay at least $2,500 in restitution.
Her co-defendant, Heather Lyn Johnston, who pleaded guilty to robbery and drug use charges in August, was sentenced to 10 years probation with community service, a minimum $2,000 fine and $2,500 in restitution.
Benny Herman Allen III, who at the time of the February 27, 2007, robbery was a teller at the Bank of America in Acworth, Georgia, also was sentenced to the 10-year maximum. He's required to serve five years behind bars and pay $2,500 in restitution.
So, the two girls who actually robbed the bank got 2 years in jail and probation while the guy who was in on it got 5 years in prison. How many ordinary bank robbers do you think got off that light?
*Seeing as how they videotaped themselves committing a crime, the only way I can see them getting acquitted is if they can find a judge and jury dumb enough to fall for Richard Pryor's old line, "Who are you going to believe, me or your lying eyes?"
Read this- it explains everything:
http://theproblemwithwomentoday-reality2008.blogspot.com/
Of COURSE you are going to see more violence among girls as a result of feminism. As Dr. Helen correctly notes, if you give girls and women the same amount of autonomy, the same cultural permission to be physical, and the same body confidence as men, then some girls and women are going to abuse it (just as some men do). I think this increase in violence just goes to show that the inherent differences between the sexes are not so vast as we often believe. Men have no monopoly on violence and aggression and, as a feminist, I utterly reject the notion that women are somehow more peacable than men. As a feminist, I believe women do not enjoy any particular moral superiority over men.
The correlation between the success of feminism and the rise in female violence however is NOT an argument against feminism, any more than the greater crime rates in freer societies are an argument against freedom.
Obviously, women and girls who commit violence should be held accountable. I blame old-fashioned attitudes, the underestimation of women, and misguided "chivalry" for the fact that violence by women is winked at sometimes in our culture.
-- Margaret the Feminist
Reality 2008 --
Wow, women are not only the "more emotional" sex (whatever that means) but also more "unbalanced." Nice.
I know that a lot of readers here fervently believe that feminism is all about anti-male bigotry. But I couldn't imagine posting a comment on a feminist blog saying that men are "the more aggressive sex," "the more easily sexually manipulated sex," "the angrier sex," or "the more violent sex." (Not that I believe any of these things. But I would be taken aback if anyone on a feminist blog were to say something like that.)
But supposedly, we feminists are the irrational ones! I think Reality 2008's comments on this thread are Exhibit A proving that women do not exactly have a stranglehold on irrationality. I am not sure how the "Women are loathsome and despicable!" rants contribute to any kind of productive conversation about the roots and solutions to female violence.
"The correlation between the success of feminism and the rise in female violence however is NOT an argument against feminism, any more than the greater crime rates in freer societies are an argument against freedom"
WRONG. This is where you are fundamentally deluded, because originally Feminism MAY have been nothing more than a way for women to 'have more freedoms' but 30 years ago it quickly turned into nothing more than a twisted and extremely perverse way for women to be free of all accountabilty, against and above anything that stood in their way, including children, and prey on men's property and jobs through sick programs.
Feminism has turned women into cockroaches- diseased parasites devoid of all human qualities who scurry about in the dark. This is what happens when you demand respect, yet do not deserve it. Respect is something you EARN not DEMAND.
Congradulations- you actually LEARNED something today!
"the more aggressive sex," "the more easily sexually manipulated sex," "the angrier sex," or "the more violent sex."
If you were to write this, you would be correct. But it is critical you understand why. Yes, men commit most of the crime, most of the violence, wage wars, etc., but men also do almost all of the good in the world that is important- we provide you with all of your basic needs & invented everything for you. This is because men are Pro-active. Women, on the other hand, are Re-active- they dont't really do anything at ALL.. good or bad (until now with this incident).
If you do not think there is a difference between the sexes, you are not only irrational, you might to go talk to your dog about how to stop global warming, because you are living in a fatasy world. (snicker)
Read this- it explains everything:
http://theproblemwithwomentoday-reality2008.blogspot.com/
uh...Dude...I'm ticked off as well but some of the stuff on your blog is, oh, a wee bit over the top. Our society is deeply warped right now but, believe it or not, not all women are stupid scumbags.
margaret --
"But I would be taken aback if anyone on a feminist blog were to say something like that."
Uh, right. You must be taken aback a lot. I've been to feminist blogs and those exact sentiments are rampant. You may not fathom posting them, but others have not a problem.
Reality2008, every single comment you have made so far is not about the issue at hand. I don't think it is possible to converse with you on a rational level. You seem to accuse all women of what you seem to be: an irrational, volatile, and emotional person.
And YES, I know exactly what "accountabililty" means.
Margaret the Feminist, well said:
**The correlation between the success of feminism and the rise in female violence however is NOT an argument against feminism, any more than the greater crime rates in freer societies are an argument against freedom.
Obviously, women and girls who commit violence should be held accountable. I blame old-fashioned attitudes, the underestimation of women, and misguided "chivalry" for the fact that violence by women is winked at sometimes in our culture.**
reality2008, you really need to calm down.
There are very good reasons for your feelings regarding women and their general lack of accountability at this time, but you aren't going to get anywhere if you continue 1) claiming that all women inherently share these flaws and 2) foaming at the mouth and raving incoherently as you make your claims. All you're doing is damaging the collective credibility of everybody else who wants to discuss the double standards of accountability for men and women.
Your claims that there are inherent differences between men and women are based in truth, but when you extend that to claim that women are "diseased parasites devoid of all human qualities", you go straight through hyperbole right into the realms of insanity.
You admit that men are typically more aggressive than women, then claim that somehow women , despite being naturally less inclined to undertake violence or active oppression of others are both doing so today, and are incapable of doing otherwise.
A more accurate way of portraying the problems you exaggerate would be to say that men, being naturally more aggressive have developed traditions of self-control and accountability to restrain ourselves from the chaos that would otherwise result. These traditions have not been historically necessary for women because they did not have similarly dangerous amounts of physical or political power. That changed with women's suffrage. Our society has not yet adapted to the greater power women hold; power and responsibility must be linked and women as a group have not yet taken the responsibility that comes with power.
That is what needs to change. You're not going to contribute anything towards that change if you continue raving aimlessly about the worthlessness of all women. And it looks particularly bad for you to do that raving on the blog of one of the few women who are seeking to help the process.
This comment has been removed by the author.
kendrick --
"... damaging the collective credibility ..."
Nawh. Reality#### is just showing off his canker sores again. He's been at it for a couple of years now. He also periodically operates a couple of sock-puppets.
And while your post is a well-reasoned rebuttal, you do realize it's pretty much useless to argue with the demented? Much more fun to bait them and watch the implosion.
**The correlation between the success of feminism and the rise in female violence however is NOT an argument against feminism, any more than the greater crime rates in freer societies are an argument against freedom."
"I am most anxious to enlist everyone who can speak or write to join in checking this mad, wicked folly of 'Women's Rights', with all its attendant horrors, on which her poor feeble sex is bent, forgetting every sense of womanly feelings and propriety. Feminists ought to get a good whipping. Were woman to 'unsex' themselves by claiming equality with men, they would become the most hateful, heathen and disgusting of beings, and would surely perish without male protection."
-- Queen Victoria, 1870
Well, well, well, what do you know, dark poet & Kendrick? Looks like I have someone here who 'expresses' herself just like I do. She must have been 'irrational.'
Now I'm going to educate YOU. Both of you are all decorum and little or no substance- which is akin to saying... nothing. That's humorous-getting little 'lectures' from someone who has nothing to say.
You know, I've seen girls do far more horrifying things than this. So has Dr Helen.
What struck me was how incompetent the girls were. If the victim knew one thing, even one, about self-defense, I think she would have set that pack of hyenas on the run. She runs around covering her head while girls are essentially slapping her. If she lined up one good punch to the nose of just one of the girls, the others would have quailed.
Or she could get really serious, and pick up one of those lamps and start swinging until she connects with someone. Smash a house window or two with the lamp while you're at it, leave a trail for anyone to follow in case you go down swinging (outnumbered 8 to 1, after all), but FIGHT BACK!
If anything, I'm convinced that my daughter needs to go to a karate class, not to become a black belt, but to get used to being hit and hitting back. Punches and slaps don't hurt as much as someone who is never punched or slapped think they do.
Lurker:
The victim used the same defense tactic as my older sister back in the day, curling up in a ball and defending herself with her feet. My sister was 2 years older and twice my weight, I could still wail on her. You're right, the girl needs some sort of class. She's probably been told once too often to be nice at all costs. But it was her poor defense choices that made the video so special, she was a supreme victim, the aggressors could never claim they acted in self-defense.
As we all know, if you are going to post nasty stuff on the Internet you better be somewhat prepared for what comes your way, legal or illegal.
Cham,
Do people really deserve to be physically beaten for what they write on the internet? There are better ways to handle being insulted than going to someone's home or tricking them into a trap and assaulting them. Your comment makes it sound as if you approve of people acting illegally if they are insulted over the internet. I can understand a lawsuit, calling the police, confronting the insulter verbally, or asking an internet provider to take down the insults but to set up a trap where you are physically assaulting the insulter is not the right thing to do and is against the law.
I never said I approve of violence. But when you agitate some people with inflammatory comments they sometimes react badly. I can control what I say and do, but nobody can control what others may do. Some people have anger management issues so it is best to be prepared.
Cham,
How are people supposed to be prepared? By not writing inflammatory comments on the internet? Too late. Many of the comments written on this blog (some by you) may be construed by others as inflammatory. Not sure what your point is, but if it is that people should not write inflammatory things on the internet lest they be in fear of being assaulted, that is pretty extreme.
I didn't say not to write inflammatory things on the Internet. But if one does one should be prepared that they might anger someone else.
I will tell you a little story of my experience. About 7 years ago I was invited by email to meet a group I knew through an Internet message board at a bar. I arrived, was greeted by the group and went to hang up my coat. As I was hanging my coat up on the rack I was accosted by a very large drunk woman, maybe 200 pounds, all muscle. Her speech was slurred and she was yelling at me about something I had written on the board. After doing some inquiring I realized that it was something I had written to another person over a year prior and I had no recollection of the matter. The drunk woman turned out to be a lurker who had read my post over and over and had gotten angrier and angrier about it. Rather than responding to me on the board or writing me an email she had decided to find me and beat the crap out of me.
Since the bar didn't have a bouncer, I was in a corner and I don't like large drunk people so I opted to simply listen to this crazy lady call me every name in the book until she wore herself out and got frustrated with my nonresponse. Then I sat down with my friends and told them what happened. About half and hour later the lady returned apologized profusely for her bad behavior.
This is just one example of what can happen when you write stuff on the Internet. It's an ugly world out there.
Cham,
That is awful. I could see it if the woman maybe said that what you wrote upset her and asked for an explanation but it sounds like she was just passive/aggressive--too afraid to call you out on the board immediately for what you said but aggressive enough to resort to intimidation--what a poor way to handle anger. Thankfully you weren't hurt.
I hear what you are saying, that some people do not handle anger well out there and you don't know who you can set off. That said, anytime you engage with the public or even speak for that matter, you risk offending someone. Yet, sitting home and being afraid is an even worse alternative.
TO: Dr. Helen, et al.
RE: Who's to Blame?
"Her parents blamed the Internet for the incident." -- item cited by Dr. Helen
No one, least of all this violent girl's parents, want to take responsibility.
On the other hand, it seems that 'outsiders', i.e., psychologists, will likely want to shift the blame to anyone but a real person, i.e., the perpetrator, or, being something of a 'minor', the parents, to something that won't cost them money.
On the third hand, I blame all three; perp, parents, psychologists.
I would REALLY like to see the psychological community do a root-cause analysis of all this violence.
I think I know the answer already. But I doubt if even 10% of the population would agree with it; it's so politically incorrect.
Regards,
Chuck(le)
P.S. I wonder if Debra, as mentioned a few doors down the hall from here would approve of these 'tough cookies'.
She runs around covering her head while girls are essentially slapping her.
You sayin' they hit like girls?
I largely blame the parents for this, not the internet. There are several factors that determine an inviduals ability to empathize, but as a child I was defending children that were bullied because my mother told me, "If you are not a part of the solution than you are a part of the problem. Help that little girl..." And, I did. I'd love to know what the home lives of those girls are like. That would be an interesting case study.
Helen, I agree that life does seem extreme. I heard they were considering attempted murder charges because of the repeated hits to the head. I have an uncle who is serving about 8 years in a Federal prison for multiple bank robberies with a gun, but he is also a repeat offender, so I'm not sure how this compares. I think they should be tried as adults and charged with assault. There are several disturbing factors about the case: it was pre-meditated, filmed and posted online, the beating lasted for 30 minutes, they prevented the girl from escaping and then drove her to an intersection and dumped her on the road. I think the lookouts should be given a softer sentence than the people who did the actual beating. I don't know what a reasonable sentence would be, perhaps at least 5 years in a prison.
Cham: As we all know, if you are going to post nasty stuff on the Internet you better be somewhat prepared for what comes your way, legal or illegal.
I agree that the victim was wrong to post the rude comments, but her attackers' offencss are far worse.
TO: serket
RE: Punishments
"I don't know what a reasonable sentence would be, perhaps at least 5 years in a prison." -- serket
That would be a felony.
Although I'm not an attorney, assault, without a weapon, albeit aggravated, is a misdemeanor; less than a year in the county hoosegow.
Maybe the good doctor could ask hubby what ag-assault gets people these days.
Girls need to learn the same as boys, it isn't acceptable to hit out in that manner. Interesting how parents blame other sources for their childrens behaviour, perhaps they should monitor what their child is doing on Myspace and other internet sites. for every action there is a reaction.
There's a couple of things that have struck me in this thread.
First, I'm sure there's one thing that hasn't changed since I was a kid. Boys are taught that, under no circumstances, regardless of the cost, there is never any situation in which you hit girls. Girls, on the other hand, are taught no such rules. In fact, they are sometimes taught that "defending yourself" is the right thing to do, even if such "defense" is slapping a guy for a rude comment. With such asymmetrical standards, is it any wonder these particular girls never learned that violence is not acceptable?
The other point I would like to make is regarding Cham's assertion that "if you are going to post nasty stuff on the Internet you better be somewhat prepared for what comes your way, legal or illegal." I'm on both sides of this one. While there are no words a person can say or write that justifies violence, unjustified violence hurts just as much as the other kind. In an ideal world, we could all say what we want without fear of physical retribution, but as I learned in high school, as smart mouth, poison pen, or crass keyboard will get you smacked around plenty, and there are more than a few people who still say "served you right". Don't expect someone else to come to your defense, and don't ever think being right is a bullet-proof vest.
Chuck: so the law doesn't recognize that group assaults beating someone past unconsciousness is a little more serious?
Personally, if 8 teens approach me looking about to attack, I'm pulling my gun. Don't tell me pack mentality isn't a lethal weapon.
I hope these stupid whores do get some serious time, though I agree with the earlier post: the guy lookouts are probably going to get sentenced to longer terms than these foul bitches.
Reality2008, obviously there are many irrational people in the world. Queens included. Many members of royality were raging lunatics.
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