Friday, October 19, 2007

Anti-Depression "Stone Age" Remedy

Well, there was a lot of controversy about how to treat depression in my post, "Live like a Caveman to Cure Depression?" Some of you thought the "Stone Age" cure was a bunch of junk science. However, here is one woman who thinks that the "caveman" approach might just work:


27 Comments:

Blogger ipsedixiter said...

Oh no, the sky is falling! So the presenter implies that suicide rates are rising, right?

One problem: they aren't. See: http://docs.google.com/Doc?id=df89hcjc_2dvsjdg

Granted it's only the 54 years, but...

4:48 PM, October 19, 2007  
Blogger ipsedixiter said...

This comment has been removed by the author.

5:04 PM, October 19, 2007  
Blogger ipsedixiter said...

This comment has been removed by the author.

5:06 PM, October 19, 2007  
Blogger ipsedixiter said...

Actually today's rate is the same as it was in 1900: http://docs.google.com/Doc?id=df89hcjc_4n69q22

5:09 PM, October 19, 2007  
Blogger Helen said...

Ipsedixiter,

There are over 31,000 suicides in the US, 80% committed by men and 90% of those who commit suicide have depression or another diagnosable illness so it is a very big concern.

http://www.spanusa.org/index.cfm?fuseaction=home.viewPage&page_id=0D213AD4-C50A-1085-4DD96CE0EEED52A0

5:11 PM, October 19, 2007  
Blogger BobH said...

Helen

How many of the successful suicides (as opposed to the "attempts") occur among two groups (1) teenage males who feels socially marginalized, particularly with respect to attracting girls and (2) old men who feel like they are a burden on society?

I've heard the rates are much higher than average for both groups.

8:21 PM, October 19, 2007  
Blogger Rodger said...

I'm probably an expert on depression, considering one of my best friends suffered and still partly suffers from depression. I think our current lifestyle has a big role to play in repairing the situation.

Anti Depression Medication

8:23 PM, October 19, 2007  
Blogger ipsedixiter said...

Dr. Helen,

I agree that it is a bog problem and I was in no way saying otherwise. But the woman in the video you posted stated that suicide was endemic to our modern life. Now, frankly, the data I provided doesn't support that. I just worry about the fear-mongers out there...

8:46 PM, October 19, 2007  
Blogger dadvocate said...

I was struck by the fastest growing group suffering from depression is kids. I wonder if the kids are really depressed or adults are just less tolerant of childhood behaviors and seek medication, etc. I had a go round concerning this with my ex when my now 14 year old son was 5.

The social worker and psychiatrist she found were more than willing, even eager, to medicate him with Zoloft which hadn't been approved for use with kids. He actually had to take it for a little while but I got him off it quickly. He never was and never has been depressed. Indeed, he is one of the brightest, most talented kids around. But his mother's a nut who knew how to get sympathy from the social worker and psychiatrist.

But, kids probably do play outside less than they did when I was growing up. My friends and I were pretty much outdoors as long as the sun was up.

11:17 PM, October 19, 2007  
Blogger Helen said...

BobH,

"The rate of suicide among older adults is higher than that for any other age group and among those 85 years and older, is the highest rate of all. Nearly 7,000 older adults died by suicide in 2004, the most recent statistics available from the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention." The majority of these suicides are committed by white men (Info from Spanusa.org)

How many of these men felt like burdens, I don't know but I suspect quite a few.

As far as teen males between 15-24, the majority of suicides in 2004 were of young males with 3596 out of the 4316 completed suicides. Again, how many were marginalized boys who had trouble with girls? It's hard to say. You can see the stats on gender and age here:

http://www.suicide.org/suicide-statistics.html

6:05 AM, October 20, 2007  
Blogger br549 said...

I often wonder if the problems with depression in children, that may or may not be on the rise, are partially due to the cumulative bullshit that gets dumped on them from modern day life. I have a wonderful son, who is agoraphobic, suffers from depression, and incredible migraine headaches. I wonder, painfully, if I have contributed to his outlook on life, his varying conditions, via genes, and the crap we have been through in the last decade - and most importantly, my reactions to that.

Suicide, no matter how many times it happens, in what age group, or gender, or color, or nationality, is too high. Sometimes desperate intervention is the best that can be done.

My personal bouts with mild depression are as puzzling when they come on, as they are when they leave. Why, in either case? I have seen no differences in me with and without medication for it, over time. Only my wallet has seen a difference.

Perhaps statistics have a place in this world. They have yet to make the dark clouds appear over head, or make the sunshine return. Perhaps I need to read harder or something.

Seeking help from the medical end may as well be treated as if I'm putting replacement windows in my house. I'll go out for three quotes, and get services from the lowest bidder. Regardless of the outcome of the services rendered, I have to pay for them. If the wrong meds are prescribed, and don't "do the trick", or even do the opposite, I still have to pay for them. (Oh, OK, then. Throw those away and try THIS prescription) I have no recourse. The medical industry is the first and fastest to place non-payment on your credit report, to damage your financial reputation, for non-payment. Even when, as stated above, you did NOT get what you paid for. An engineer can't do that. Nor a car mechanic, carpenter, electrician, lawn mowing service, etc. and etc.

Granted, the medical industry has recently prolonged my life. But they did so by removing diseased body parts. And enough was removed only to be sure the "cure" did not kill me. Nothing else has been done. The cause is still flowing through my veins and arteries. We take "pictures" on a regular basis, so it can again be removed when (as expected)it shows up again.

So, that's the best we have, and although it is much better than nothing, reading the rants and raves of a bunch of little girls on your blog isn't productive. Somehow, since the pundit's original post showed up, the responders have made it all about him and them, via their opinions.

Well, I'm pretty selfish and self centered too. So, screw them. What about me?

8:17 AM, October 20, 2007  
Blogger The Chief said...

I'm sure it's all true...sunlight, excercise, eating right, human contact, I'm sure it's all helpful. But another factor that probably prevented your average Cro-Magnon from getting depressed...he didn't have the luxury. He didn't have the time or the opportunity to sit in the corner of the cave and mope in an exestintial funk. If he frittered away his time feeling bad instead of getting out there hunting and gathering, he'd starve come winter.

And I suspect it also simply wasn't tolerated by his or her peer group. "Hey, Mog! I know you're feeling a little blue right now, but if you don't pick up your spear and get your butt out here to help us fight off the saber tooth tiger none of our descendants will ever be born to invent Prozac!" Again, life didn't allow for this nonsense back in the cave.

9:23 AM, October 20, 2007  
Blogger Jan Tincher said...

Cavemen didn't have peer pressure. If someone or something bothered them, they beat it, then, if appropriate, ate it. Somehow that's changed over the years. If something's bothering you, you let it beat you -- by thinking about what's bothering you until it bothers you into depression.

10:23 AM, October 20, 2007  
Blogger Bruce Hayden said...

When it comes to old men, we saw another dynamic recently. The grandfather of a friend of mine killed himself maybe a year after his wife of maybe 70 years died.

It isn't just being depressed about being a burden, but also possibly that their wives were their connection with society, their families, etc., and without such, they become isolated, and likely depressed as a result.

In this case, a daughter and a granddaughter tried to keep him connected, but to no avail. He just sat in his chair for that year, and then took his gun out one day and joined his wife.

10:59 AM, October 20, 2007  
Blogger El Duderino said...

I concur, for what it's worth, with the Chief.
How does one define "success" these days? The un married CEO is a failure in relationships, the thrice married cocktail waitress is a ne’er do well bimbo. I suspect back in the day, with no Madison Avenue ad men to tell them differently, people counted themselves successful if their belly was full and they had the chance to reproduce. Things were probably so immediate that there was no mistaking ones purpose, no need to search for meaning and probably little opportunity to.

9:16 PM, October 20, 2007  
Blogger Video said...

I fail to see suicide among the elderly as a problem. It seems a rational approach in many cases. I hope I will have the mental and physical faculties to take that route should it one day become necessary.

Let's see...you're very old, in poor health, depressed, and your only prospects for the future are worsening health, decreased abilities, and more depression. We admire someone who "lets go" and wills himself to die when his race is run. Unlike a few years ago, the healthcare industry can keep a body going for years after any quality of life is present. Why should suicide be treated as a stigma or a mental health issue? It seems a solution, not a problem.

(And "because God doesn't want you to" is not a valid counter-argument.)

8:26 AM, October 22, 2007  
Blogger Helen said...

Video,

Part of the problem is that many of the elderly, especially men, are not in bad health or suffering from a terminal illness etc. Those who commit suicide at times are depressed or feel like a burden but are in fair health and see their situation as worse than it is. It is a problem if people kill themselves out of sadness and a distorted sense of their worthlessness rather than if it is because they are suffering from a disease etc. I understand where you are coming from, but I don't think that suicide is really the "answer" to just plain getting older. And if it is, part of that is because our cruel society is so youth oriented that when you get over 35 or so, you are seen as "old" and useless.

9:55 AM, October 22, 2007  
Blogger serket said...

Being young and single I have not idea of the pain that occurs from being a widower in your 80s or older, but I just think if you've lived that long you might as well hang on a little longer.

1:04 PM, October 22, 2007  
Blogger Sir Frank said...

There are many people who have the habit of crushing tablets and pills before having them. There wouldn’t have been much wrong with this habit but it proves to be detrimental because there are certain elements in every pill that our body doesn’t want and on chewing the pill these non beneficial elements find way into our lungs and sinus cavities. The same also goes with the depression pills like xanax. So avoid snorting xanax completely.

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