Tuesday, May 02, 2006

Podcast on Alternative Fuels and Blog Advertising

Popular Mechanics editor Jim Meigs joins us again for a discussion of a recent PM article on alternative fuels. He talks about the pros and cons of ethanol, methanol, hydrogen and biodiesel fuels. Will our reliance on Middle East oil soon be obsolete?

We also hear from Henry Copeland of Blogads.com,who tells us about his recent demographic survey on blog readers. I found out some interesting tidbits about the kinds of people who read blogs and why. He also discusses the future of blog advertising as well as the future of advertising on podcasts. If you run a blog, read blogs or want to advertise on blogs, take a listen.

You can listen to the podcast here (no iPod necessary) or subscribe via iTunes. You can find previous podcasts here and there's a low-fi version for dialup available here.

As always, leave any comments and suggestions below.

39 Comments:

Blogger Rick said...

Interesting topic.Please turn down Glenn's mic a little.

8:58 PM, May 02, 2006  
Anonymous The Commissar said...

The PM chart compared a Honda Civic using gas with a Taurus using E85. While those may be currently available choices, i.e. maybe there are no E85-compatible cars currently sold in the US as fuel efficient as a Civic, it seems like a misleading comparison.

9:07 PM, May 02, 2006  
Anonymous Will Brown said...

Presuming you can get beyond the owners identity (yes, he's that Bob Lazar), this seems like a possibility:

http://www.switch2hydrogen.com/

I have no added information about his process beyond what is described and would be interested in others response.

10:03 PM, May 02, 2006  
Anonymous _Jon said...

I haven't listened to the podCast yet, but I have some comments on the topics.

First, I find it annoying that Popular Mechanics continues to refer to Oil-based fuel as "fossil fuel". I would think that with the Russians proving it isn't based upon "fossils", they would avoid using an inaccurate term. It makes me wonder if they cling to old - inaccurate - terms there, what other fallacies do they cling to?

Second, I was *shocked* to see blogAds as an participant. Given that Pajamas Media's formation had directly taken business away from bA, it is suprising to see them give Glenn the time of day. (No offense meant to Glenn.) Mr. Copeland must be one heck of a guy.

10:17 PM, May 02, 2006  
Blogger Glenn said...

Henry and I get along fine. I left for Pajamas with his blessing, and I've had nothing but good relations with him. He's a swell guy, and the blogosphere is big enough for multiple approaches.

11:21 PM, May 02, 2006  
Blogger Joel said...

I have not yet listened to the podcast, saving it for boring work hours, but in case you want another perspective on ethanol, or the car business, or the oil industry, or rock and roll history, or world history in general, you might inquire as to whether Ed Wallace would be open to an interview. He has a 5 hour radio show on saturday morning in Dallas market and he is very interesting and informed. He also reviews cars for a local TV station and some magazines, and writes occaisional articles for BusinessWeek online, such as the one Glenn linked to this week.
I think he does an economics newsletter for a very specific clientele too, but I only infer that from some references by some callers to his radio show. He also does a little segment for radio on rock and roll history that is reminescent of Paul Harvey's "The Rest of the Story".

12:26 AM, May 03, 2006  
Blogger e m butler said...

in the PM story in the first paragraph, the manager states 13 million gallons of ethanol replaces(only) 55 thousand barrels of fossil fuel...How can that be ?? Is it a math error or does it reflect the (hidden) fact that ethanol requires a heck of a lot of fossil fuel to make?

5:58 AM, May 03, 2006  
Blogger e m butler said...

whoops ,my bad, 36 million gallons,even worse

6:02 AM, May 03, 2006  
Blogger A Jacksonian said...

Well, my Party of One, The Jacksonian Party, has done an analysis of the PM article and its thorough implications beyond what is mentioned within it.

First and foremost, when people point to Brazil they must understand that it is *still* not an industrialized nation, relatively poor, having a low rate of car ownership compared to the US and willing to sacrifice rainforest for short-life crop land until the meager nutrients are used up and more rainforest needs be cut down. Thus ethanol is subsidized in Brazil and heavily so.

Once the analysis is done, the numbers are clear and that none of the alternative fuels can be economically done for US energy self-sufficeincy. For bio-renewables the major part is cropland and lack thereof in the US. To convert to E85, 2/3 or so of all cropland in the US would need be devoted to corn. M85, having a lower conversion ratio and thus fewer gallons per acre is worse. To go to fully E100 would require all cropland in the US to be devoted to such a resource.

Compressed Natural Gas is from either fossil fuel sources, and thus non-renewable, or bio sources, which require land and cultivation. To this date there are *no* good biomass conversion candidates for methane production on a large scale. Plus explosive tank rupture turns the vehicle into a Fuel Air Explosive or FAE bomb or 'Daisy Cutter' in which the driver would be at the center of such a fireball.

Electricity - Most of the good hydroelectric project sites are gone, as in developed. All other forms of thermal, wind, tidal and terrestrial solar do not give a high return on investment rate nor adequately utilize that energy source. Further, to get energy to the vehicles would refquire 13-20 of the largest electrical generation plants in the world to meet the replacement needs of gasoline in the US alone.

Hydrogen gets the largest payback for nuclear fusion, bar none. Getting past the break-even point with that to actually generating Gigawatts of electricity is another thing, again. As a fuel it is clean, relatively safe and expensive energy-wise to make as it binds tightly with oxygen and no high percentage return on energy investment method has been demonstrated. Further, its small molecules tend to slip through gaskets, seals and piping, so a form of storage for same needs be found that is quickly rechargeable for the individual.

As part of The Jacksonian Party Energy Policy the Party recommends a Stop Gap Energy Policy to cover the needs of the next two to three decades so that the United States can invest in a 21st Century energy source and industrial base.

As with all things The Jacksonian Party proposes, this will use Federal funds and lands along with prizes for demonstrable technologies that meet goals that are important to this Nation. By utilizing already polluted land for refining and waiving the EIS so long as other guidelines are met, the current needs for converting fossil fuel oil to gasoline and other products can be met. By encouraging new and innovative technologies to meet the 21st Century demands for new energy sources and technologies for same, The Jacksonian Party places its trust in the ingenuity of the American People as expressed by their willingness to form companies that are based on dreams, but will have a definitive payback for met goals.

To date, no other political party in the United States has presented a clear and comprehensive energy plan for the Nation to meet the needs of the People. And so the Party of One stakes first claim on this territory as it has done on National Defense, the fight on Transnational Terrorism and having the States empowering their Citizens to defend their right to exist and self-govern within the compact of We the People and thus advance new rights for the People and the States. All of this in a comprehensive Domestic Policy to hit the Federal Government RESET button and a Foreign Policy that helps America's Friends mightily and promises no rest for those who would bring the nation down.

Simple ideas, but not simplistic.

In this era of the Zero Party State it is now necessary for the People to understand the needs and goals of the Nation and work together on those mutual goals the People find worthy of doing. The concept of a distributed party, having no heirarchy but having set ideals and enaction of same to bring individuals together is novel and new and seeks to leverage the power of Individuals working together to advance the Republic.

I am sorry for the linkfest, but it needs be done so that the ideas can be understood not only on their own but as part of the greater whole.

Please delete if you find this offensive or an attempt to thread-jack, and my apologies if that is seen as the case.

7:58 AM, May 03, 2006  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Make your own biodiesel

I came across that site a while back. Makes me think my next car will be a diesel

8:43 AM, May 03, 2006  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Enjoyed the podcast, but was disturbed by the negativity associated in trying to find a silver bullet to fix all. As in; just because biodiesel is insufficient in amount to serve us all does that mean that it should be wasted? Car retrofitting is too prohibitive to use ethanol? I dont think so. Gas tanks, fuel lines and carbs are routinely replaced and if an aftermarket industry were to develop, I suspect it would be quite reasonable. Not enough farmland? Perhaps, but in my travels there is no end to farmland gone fallow. Just because it might not be enough for all of us does it follow that it should not serve some of us? And what of the opportunities for the third world in search of crops to produce? Eth/meth would seem to be the ideal value added non perishable crop.
We should be looking forward with optomistic hope, exploring the totality of the possibilities rather than just peering at the bottom line and looking for silver bullets to gather.

9:19 AM, May 03, 2006  
Blogger George said...

Train locomotives use a diesel engine...to run a generator...to power electric motors which run the wheels. At first, this sounded redundant, but they say it is terribly fuel efficient. It would work in a car if you think about it. I'll leave all this to the scientists. Personally, I think there is enough oil for a while. But, these topics are worth discussing so our grandchildren will not think we were clueless.
g

11:04 AM, May 03, 2006  
Anonymous Howard said...

The biggest reason not to make ethanol from corn is water. PM reports that 675 million acres of corn is required to replace gasoline. Corn water demand ranges from 1 to 2 acre-feet per year.

The ethanol Fresh water demand will range from:

2.2E14 to 4.5E14 gallons per year

2000 annual US water use (USGS):

Fresh + Saline= 1.5E14

Fresh = 1.3E14

Replacing 200 billion gallons of petroleum will require 1,125-2,250 gallons of fresh water per gallon of replaced petroleum. A true environmental nightmare.

Most corn is irregated by the Ogallala Aquifer which stretches from South Dakota to Texas and underlays nearly the entire state of Nebraska (biggest corn state)

In 1980, the annual overdraft (mining groundwater)was:

4.9E12 gallons per year

Total Fresh Water Stored in Ogallala (1990:

1.1E15 gallons

This total depletion of the biggest groundwater supply in the US is equal to a 2 to 4 year supply of 100% petroleum replacement. Anwar looks much better, but it is not the final answer either.

12:35 PM, May 03, 2006  
Anonymous dweeb said...

Enjoyed the podcast, but was disturbed by the negativity associated in trying to find a silver bullet to fix all.

Why disturbed? Your terminology suggests something we should be negative about. "Silver bullet" solutions do not exist in the real world. It's always about compromise.

The biggest problem with ethanol and other biofuels is that extracting usable fuel requires more energy than you get from using the fuel. Same goes for hydrogen.

There are two problems. First is the energy, second is a way to make it portable. If the portability method (like distilling ethanol) isn't efficient, that just means you need a good energy source for the production facilities, and that can be solved by overcoming our Frankenstein complex about nuclear power. Europe doesn't have this complex - it's one place where their thinking is ahead of ours.

1:00 PM, May 03, 2006  
Anonymous dweeb said...

Train locomotives use a diesel engine...to run a generator...to power electric motors which run the wheels. At first, this sounded redundant, but they say it is terribly fuel efficient.

It's not for fuel efficiency that it's done, and it's not redundant. There are other considerations you're not aware of. To pull the weight it does, with metal wheels on metal track, a locomotive needs to drive all its wheels just to get the necessary traction. All those wheels are on "trucks" under the locomotive that pivot to follow curves in the track. Mechanically transmitting torque through that arrangement is a nightmare of frictional losses, high maintenance, and failure points. The electric motors are on the trucks themselves, where it would be impractical to mount individual diesels. However, the most efficient way for the train to carry its power is in chemical fuel. For insight into the issues involved, and the histrionics used to deal with them in the past, look here http://www.mrollins.com/shay.html

It would work in a car if you think about it.

That's what hybrids are all about.

1:12 PM, May 03, 2006  
Blogger George said...

Yeah, dweeb...I see what you mean. But don't our hybrid cars have drive trains to the wheels? Would it be feasable to just have the motor sit and run to power the all electric drive mechanism?
g

2:52 PM, May 03, 2006  
Blogger George said...

http://www.courant.com/business/hc-hybrids0503.artmay03,0,5704023.story?coll=hc-headlines-business

5:49 PM, May 03, 2006  
Anonymous Mary Ann said...

I found both discussions interesting. I have to agree with Rick in that Glenn's microphone is too strong. I know this because I listened to it as I caught up on email and other correspondence at work this morning (after being out of the office for two days in training). I had to laugh that most blog reading is during work hours. Most of mine is before I go to work, but...I listen to your your podcast and few business related podcasts as I go through email and what not in the early hours of my workday. Maybe we're not procrastinating, we're just multi-tasking!

6:06 PM, May 03, 2006  
Anonymous dweeb said...

George, hybrids come in many forms, of which that is one. The current crop of commercialized hybrids are built the way they are to take advantage of existing parts bins, which is the only way they can be made affordable. A lot has been invested in mechanical drivetrains, and existing platforms are designed around them.

In theory, having a separate motor at each wheel would enable more versatile stability control systems. However, cars are not locomotives. Trains don't have to worry about potholes, roadholding and handling, or emergency evasive maneuvers, so unsprung weight is not an issue for them. A motor weighs a lot more than half of a CV shaft.

The powerplant of a vehicle is engaged in energy conversion - typically from chemical bonds to kinetic energy. Generally speaking, it's more efficient to convert energy in one place and then distribute it than vice versa.

It's important to realize that different vehicles have different considerations. Locomotives have torque distribution issues, but don't really have to worry about weight, sprung or unsprung. These considerations are reversed in cars.

This is just one reason why it's not simple or always intuitive. This is why I found anonymous 9:19's remarks so problematic.

It always bothers me to hear people with no technical knowledge imply that there's some simple solution and that the current system of internal combustion engines run on petroleum is the result of some conspiracy. No one is burying plans for a 100 mpg carburetor - current vehicle design is a result of market demand and the real limitations of the physical world. Petroleum is really solar power. Mother nature spent thousands of years storing solar energy in carbohydrate bonds through photosynthesis, then using geothermal forces to further concentrate it by making ever longer organic molecule chains. Because we use it up faster than nature can make more, we need to find a shortcut, but it's not trivial, and with the current state of our knowledge, we're hard pressed to match nature's kitchen for concentrating energy in such a portable package as oil. When you think of all the solar and geothermal energy that went into making a barrel of oil, over thousands of years, there's no easy way to do that overnight.

8:51 PM, May 03, 2006  
Anonymous Havoc said...

It was telling on "the lucky guy, Dr. Helen's husband" 's blog that he was interested in buying a plug hybrid that would go 40 miles on battery power alone.

Well that makes him a "SUPER-Poluter" al a "Mr. Acid Rain-Pundit" since the 1990's the Tennessee Valley Authority serving Knoxville Utility has produced

-- 62% of it's electric generation capacity through steam fired COAL BURNING PLANTS

Dr. Helen ... please let us know how long he has to sleep out on the couch or the back porch before he relents from this very misguided love affair with a plug in hybrid.

Go Nuk-u-lar -- the clean burning electric power.

He could spend your first five years retirement funds on installing a Seimens electric solar grid on your roof with the monsterous converts taking over your garage.

Then you could let him sleep in the house again.

10:57 PM, May 04, 2006  
Anonymous havoc said...

Dr. Helen:

If he (the lucky guy, your husband) really Insists on a future Plug-in Hybrid car capable of doing 40 miles on battery power alone,

AND he doesn't want to turn himself into "Mr. Acid-RainPundit" by plugging the car each night into household electricty that originates 62% from steam generated COAL FIRED PLANTS in your area,

Then he can remodel your house to look like This http://w4.siemens.de/FuI/en/archiv/zeitschrift/heft2_99/artikel12/index.html
--Scroll down for the Siemens energy Self sufficient house-- a beautiful thing your neighbors in Knoxville will happily comment on when you try to get your remodel past the Planning commission.

Then he can plug in each night after you have had a sunny day.

Get used to nosey neighbors however.

6:15 PM, May 05, 2006  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

This is what I wrote the editor at PM.

"For this special report, PM crunched the numbers on
the actual costs a performance of each major
alternative fuel. Before we can debate national energy
policy--or even decide which petroleum substitutes
might make sense for our personal vehicles--we need to
know how these things stack up in the real world."

I would like to know, was it lack of room on the page
or lack of insight or lack of knowledge that Propane
was left out of Mike Allen's in-depth report on Alt.
Fuels?

I would like to point out a study by TIAX Reference
D5334, Presented to California's ARB on April 20, 2004
titled Climate Friendly Alternative Fuel Vehicle
Analysis. The analysis was done in response to
California's Vehicle Global Warming Pollution Law
(AB1493). I understand this study was done in response
to Californias GHG laws and propane has a regional
availability problem but so does E85. Please also see
what Fuelture is doing in GB. If Mikes reason not to
write about Propane is because no car company is
making a propane vehicle at this time, there is
conversion, again refer to Fuelture.

I could go on but time and space limit us all.

Propane is one of our best Alt. Fuel choices that is
already on the market and available. Plus it is less
expensive and better for our engines, and it gets the
job done in reducing GHG's.

4:45 PM, May 06, 2006  
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