Thursday, February 16, 2006

Throw the Book at Her

I have no sympathy for this woman--I say, she should get the same punishment she set the men up for. Read it and tell me what you think.

Update: Why is it that hypocritical women like those at the Feministe Blog always use girls being abused in Islamic countries to make a point about the "mistreatment" of women in the US and yet, when you call for anything to be done, such as freeing the Iraqi people--women included--they suddenly turn a deaf ear and start preaching the virtues of peace and the sins of President Bush?

48 Comments:

Blogger ronin1516 said...

She ought to be given the most severe sentence possible. And multiply that by 6, and to be serves consequtively(sp?)!!! And then add 10 years for bein stupid. Why did she make the allegation of rapes, when she knew that she engaged in consensual sexual activity that was recorded on tape ( or the digital equivalent)?
It is jackasses like t his "ho" that allow peopel to believe that women making genuine claims of being raped, are liars.

6:33 PM, February 16, 2006  
Blogger Helen said...

ronin1516,

I agree that if found guilty, she should be given the same sentence the men would have gotten. Afterall, the legal system was willing to give it to the guys. In our society, rape and sexuality on the part of men is seen as worse than murder. It is outrageous and any decent citizen should stand up against these laws and the feminists who make them afraid to speak their mind.

7:02 PM, February 16, 2006  
Blogger Mark K. Sprengel said...

I think she should get the same.

8:11 PM, February 16, 2006  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

You silly woman! All sex is rape!!! All males are RAPISTS!!! A woman is incapable of consenting, and can only delude herself into thinking she's "having a good time". Only in the cold reality of afterglow does she truly realize the grievous actions perpetrated upon her by these loathsome creatures we can "men". She deserves justice. Death to all RAPISTS!!!

8:11 PM, February 16, 2006  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Maybe the check bounced?

8:12 PM, February 16, 2006  
Anonymous gsk said...

The mother in me says "lock her up for a long time with access to very good counseling." She's obviously a very broken soul who has deep issues. This is the kind of woman who was probably abused as a little girl and has [obviously] warped ideas about all sorts of things. Very sad -- and sad that the men she chooses take advantage of her brokenness.

9:04 PM, February 16, 2006  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

It's my understanding that motives such as retribution, alibi, and cuckoldry are among the most common underlying false accusation.

The fact that she never recanted and defended these charges throughout suggests to me that she perceived some injustice worthy of the penalties, or needed to maintain the charges for other reasons - that doesn't make it rape, but provides some motive beyond a psychological disorder.

Perhaps she'd initially filed the charges as leverage to get the tape, or needed an alibi to assuage her husband to be, or simply didn't like the way that these men treated her afterwards.

Eugene Volokh explains how it is that a very low false accusation rate can still produce a large number of false charges annually.
http://volokh.com/archives/archive_2005_04_10-2005_04_16.shtml#1113597035

That said, consider the position of a prosecutor when determining whether, and how, to prosecute such incidents.
1. Rape is likely to be under-reported, perhaps significantly.
2. Prosecutors don't want to deter actual victims from reporting these crimes and receiving help.
3. If they do press significant charges against a false accuser, women's groups and a sympathetic media will portray these as a backlash against women and amplify the likelyhood and severity of such an outcome (e.g. You Can Be Prosecuted If Your Attacker Is Not Convicted !!! ). You can see a similar strategy playing out currently in NOW's charge that child abusers are the most likely to win child custody disputes ( Absolutum Hogwashus )
4. The Nuclear Option, commonly wielded by feminist groups, produces an adverse outcome which contradicts the very mission of the prosecutors office - it's a very strong incentive to simply make such cases go away.

9:39 PM, February 16, 2006  
Blogger BobH said...

According to "False rape allegations" (by E.J. Kanin in Archives of Sexual Behavior, Feb 1994, V23 n1, pg 81) 41% of rape accusations turned out to be outright fabrications with the three reasons given being (1) Most importantly - To get out of actual or potential social sanctions resulting for something she had done; (2) To gain revenge on the guy; and (3)Least importantly - To gain attention and/or sympathy.

The sample was taken from all cases of reported rape in a midwestern metropolitan area of 70,000 occurring over from 1978 to 1987. In this jurisdiction, false accusers are porsecuted and the women were informed of this before they confessed.

Kanin also looked at 32 reported cases of rape occurring at two midwestern universities, where all of the investigating officers were women, and found a fabrication rate of 50%.

Helen, I agree with you...to a point. The men would probably have gone to jail for life. I'd be willing to sentence her to only 10 years, with no possibility of parole.

10:07 PM, February 16, 2006  
Blogger jic said...

That was unusually graphic for a newspaper article, wasn't it?

It's hard to understand this woman's motivation for claiming rape when she knew that

1) the tape she mentioned proved she was a willing participant

and

2) there was a person who she spoke to on the phone during the act, who she told what she was doing at the time.

I don't know what to believe. Is she crazy? Is she the world's most inept blackmailer? Was this a desperate attempt to hide what she did from family and friends? Whatever her reason, I believe that the maximum sentence for making a false report should be more severe. How about up to 10 years in jail, and/or a maximum $25,000 fine?

10:31 PM, February 16, 2006  
Anonymous Anonymous Coward said...

BobH- 41% out of a total of 109 in the Midwest Metropolis. 50% of 32 at two universities. But let's not let the sample size keep us from drawing broad conclusions.

(get it? broad?)

10:35 PM, February 16, 2006  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Recants need to be treated differently from known false charges. We have no way of knowing what percentage of recants may have been on legitimate charges, or sexual assaults of a lesser nature.

Charges pursued to a grand jury, or to further prosection represent an intent to deceive IMO - on someone's part.

11:27 PM, February 16, 2006  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

If the particulars of the case are true, i.e. she is lying and it was truly consensual she should be prosecuted to the fullest extent of the law.

anonymous 9:39-

Or consider it's the prosecutor's job to prosecute crime and not play activist. Cases like this should be pursued with the same fervor that attempts at framing people for murder should be.

3:50 AM, February 17, 2006  
Blogger jw said...

As I said on Cathy Young's blog, there's a lot of factors at play here.

If she used this false charge as a weapon -that is she was embarrased about taking part in a porn movie- then the assault laws should reasonably apply! I cannot see why they would not. Given this, what she did is no different than throwing a bomb which failed to explode.

I don't like the "taking advantage of her" stuff. It suggests that women are too weak to know what they are doing. It suggests that all males are predators. It is a sick, and to me, dangerously perverted view of humanity.

False charges and false convictions are a serious matter. A serious matter with a lot of people have a vested interest in convicting innocent men. People who engage in efforts to convict the innocent should be held in the same contempt as rascists. The hate laws should also apply. The same thing goes for those men who want to make all rape charges false!

4:16 AM, February 17, 2006  
Anonymous Eden said...

For the life of me, I can't imagine this woman's motivations. As a sexual libertine myself (doesn't that sound better than "slut" in polite company?), I didn't report a violent rape a decade ago because I had put myself into an obviously dangerous situation, I was fully aware of the risks, and I was not prepared to have my sex life discussed in court. I can't conceive of the guilt, need for attention, or other push that would lead this woman to go to the police with such a blatant lie.

And I agree: throw the book at her. Sex crimes carry a disproportionate stigma and -- if that tape wasn't made and somehow she was a credible witness -- she might have ruined the lives of six men who just took advantage of the opportunity for an easy, good time.

7:49 AM, February 17, 2006  
Blogger Frank Borger said...

"Thou shall not bear false witness" is one of the ten commandments. Whoever "wrote" the commandments, they are basically a guide to how to run a civilization.

If allowed to happen, false witness chips away at the basic foundation of justice. It needs to be strongly discouraged, via LONG sentences.

8:38 AM, February 17, 2006  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

There may be little more to this than the woman sobering up and being horrified at what she did under the influence of her drug of choice.

9:03 AM, February 17, 2006  
Blogger Dave said...

"The mother in me says "lock her up for a long time with access to very good counseling.""

What the hell does counseling have to do with imprisoning criminals?

We already pay enough in taxes. These people need counseling like I need a foot up my ass.

9:17 AM, February 17, 2006  
Anonymous gsk said...

"I don't like the 'taking advantage of her' stuff. It suggests that women are too weak to know what they are doing. It suggests that all males are predators. It is a sick, and to me, dangerously perverted view of humanity."

"Woe to those who scandalise the little ones..."

Women don't jump into bed like nyphomaniacs without some background in drugs or abuse. Usually both. And Dave, there is a legitimate theory that incarcertion is for rehabilitation as well as strictly punishment. You will pay more taxes in the end if you don't do something to spin their heads while they're off the streets. We would all pay a lot less if we would just strengthen the family. A strong and loving father figure would save most kids (and society-at-large) so much suffering.

Ever been to an AA meeting? As I said, lock her up, but for goodness sake help her!

9:47 AM, February 17, 2006  
Blogger Helen said...

Dave,

I have to agree that charging these men with such a serious crime does not warrant counseling for this woman, especially if she is a psychopath of some type who gets off on harming others. Counseling does no good with such people and frankly, using "counseling" sounds way to soft to me ((Unless she has a treatable illness that needs to be addressed in jail so that she will not do this to others.)

This woman is a thug and should be treated as such, as are those feminists who advocate that "women do not lie about rape, etc." Why we go to such lengths to understand these feminists and their posses who advocate for bizzare "ideals" over justice, I do not understand. Perhaps if we quit taking them seriously, their influence would wane.

9:56 AM, February 17, 2006  
Blogger jic said...

Women don't jump into bed like nyphomaniacs without some background in drugs or abuse. Usually both.

Even as a generalisation, that seems a bit dubious. I don't see why extreme behaviour, especially in women, must always be the result of some sort of trauma or abuse.

10:03 AM, February 17, 2006  
Anonymous Eden said...

Agreeing with jic on the response to gsk -- exactly. I've never done drugs. I was not abused. Heck, I grew up as an excellent student in a conservative, rural school and my parents just celebrated their 40th anniversary. Yet, I have been sexually promiscuous, for lack of a better term.

Would you have said that men don't jump into bed like horndogs without some background in drugs or abuse? While physical, mental, and hormonal differences shape the ways men and women approach sex, the belief that women don't have casual, sometimes reckless sex without underlying issues is part of the culture of victimization that makes rape allegations so believable.

Her participation in a gangbang with strangers that involved bodily fluid transfer and photography was stupid. Her accusations were criminal. I hope that the jury will not be misled by generalizations to treat her as anything more or less.

10:28 AM, February 17, 2006  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Take the video tape out of this, insert Gloria Allred as this woman's attorney, and these guys become typical examples of the phallohegemonic, patriarchal culture who would've been buried in a hole so deep that they'd have needed fiber optic cables for the daylight to reach them.

10:51 AM, February 17, 2006  
Anonymous Teresa said...

Helen I completely agree with you. I don't see anyone stopping to ask about what a man's motivations are in such a case... but a woman does this and suddenly she needs "counselling"...

No, what she needs is a punishment to fit the crime (yes she committed a crime - to act as if she should be treated like a 3 year old who lied about the little boy down the street throwing a toy at her is disgusting!)

She was trying to get these men put into prison for years... if not for life. Not to mention they now have a false arrest on their records that they must explain to future employers etc...

So, even if they don't go to prison they have to live with this forever. Just think if this was you! ANYONE who does this should face the same penalty that the falsely accused faces.

12:34 PM, February 17, 2006  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

She needs to do jail time for her false accusations. Firstly, because that is justice. Secondly, because every time one woman falsely accuses someone of rape, real rape victims suffer because they are less likely to be believed.

1:08 PM, February 17, 2006  
Blogger DRJ said...

Agreed on everything - this case calls for a conviction with jail time (no probation). And I hope child protective services finds a good home for her children and she doesn't regain custody after she completes her sentence. The ones who might benefit from counseling are her children, and I hope they get it.

1:30 PM, February 17, 2006  
Anonymous dweeb said...

"Women don't jump into bed like nyphomaniacs without some background in drugs or abuse."

I feel a song coming on, "Dear Officer Krupke, I'm depraved on accounta' I'm deprived!" It just wouldn't DO to hold people responsible for their choices.


"And Dave, there is a legitimate theory that incarcertion is for rehabilitation as well as strictly punishment"

Um, no, there is a PHILOSOPHY to that effect, and crime has increased in lockstep with the acceptance of that philosophy. This morally ambivalent PHILOSOPHY recently led a Vermont judge to sentence a man to 60 days for repeatedly raping a young girl for 4 years starting when she was six.

Let people be as deviant as they wish in their thoughts and speech, but the minute their deviance violates the rights of another, punish them severely and without hesitation.

1:31 PM, February 17, 2006  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

She has completely lost touch with reality. She needs help.

1:43 PM, February 17, 2006  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

I agree completely that this women should face very hard penalties. It's a matter of justice for six falsely accused individuals, not some identity politics ideology.

The guys should also sue her individually for (ahem) defamation of character. Being into sleezy group sex is one thing; being accused of forcible rape at gunpoint is quite another. Not that they'd be likely to actually get any money from her but it would be symbolic.

One point I find interesting is her statement on the tape that she was also having sex with three police officers. (I'm assuming this means three separate police 'boyfriends', but, hey...) If true I'm interested in how this plays into the whole 'why in the world did she do it' question. Did having an 'in' with law enforcement encourage her to make the accusations? Maybe it was as she alluded to in the tape: the guys spanked her a bit hard and left marks. When she next hooks up with Officer Friendly he notices the marks and demands an explanation. What else to say but "I was raped! I'm such a victim!"

There's probably more to this story. None of which dismisses the seriousness of what she tried to do to these guys.

2:20 PM, February 17, 2006  
Anonymous Hal Bowman said...

I would point out that removing the regime in Iraq or other places only improves the lot of women and girls if the replacement regimes are not more repressive. As horrific as the Hussein regime in Iraq was, I am still wondering if an duplicate of Iran is not on its way to be established in Baghdad. How much better will women be then? I do not know.

Just my bits.

3:47 PM, February 17, 2006  
Blogger dadvocate said...

You would think there would be some appreciation on the part of feminists, etc. in the USA for how good they have it here. Beside the young girl's plight in the article, they hang you for being gay in Iran. Sure it's not perfect here but, heck, some people think I'm dumb because I have a Southern accent.

4:47 PM, February 17, 2006  
Anonymous Ken said...

"I would point out that removing the regime in Iraq or other places only improves the lot of women and girls if the replacement regimes are not more repressive. As horrific as the Hussein regime in Iraq was, I am still wondering if an duplicate of Iran is not on its way to be established in Baghdad. "

The obvious solution is to overthrow the Iranian regime as well.

"Would you have said that men don't jump into bed like horndogs without some background in drugs or abuse? While physical, mental, and hormonal differences shape the ways men and women approach sex, the belief that women don't have casual, sometimes reckless sex without underlying issues is part of the culture of victimization that makes rape allegations so believable."

It makes a lot of other nutty notions believable as well. Start with the assumption that (normal) women don't actually enjoy sex and you can easily conclude that (a) young women who have lots of sex must suffer from low self-esteem (since she's not getting any enjoyment out of it, she must be doing him favors out of a pathetic need for love and attention or because she considers herself worthy only to be his servant), (b) birth control is bad for women, since they no longer has an excuse to tell the guys no, (c) if a woman really wants you to go to bed with her, there's something wrong with her, and you're "taking advantage of her brokenness" if you subject her to what she's pretending to enjoy for her own psychologically damaged reasons.

5:06 PM, February 17, 2006  
Anonymous Anonymous256 said...

I'm surprised our female "victim" here is not suing the video cam company and the phone company...

I'm sure some feminist lawyer can "prove" technology is designed to make women look like they are consenting to group sex when they are not.

On a more serious note, that woman is not fit to take care of two children and she should spend a long time in jail.

12:14 AM, February 18, 2006  
Blogger jw said...

gsk said "Women don't jump into bed like nyphomaniacs without some background in drugs or abuse. Usually both."

Uhm, NO. Like a lot of dads with custody of small children I dated a LOT. There are many many women who jump into bed for the fun of it. Sometime I'll write up the two seduction stories I have and the times I ran --escaped out a bathroom window once-- away.

Women are people, so are men. Women are not pure and innocent. Sorry, reality interferes here.

4:53 AM, February 18, 2006  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

There is a huge difference between women being sexually promiscuous and a nyphomaniac like the woman in this story. Would you agree that there is a very high chance of her having been sexually abused as a child? I would guess that it was someone very close to her like a father or step father. I would also guess that her husband is a sexual predator and will abuse her children. Sexual predators always go after the vulnerable and I can't see this woman protecting her children. I say throw the book at her and protect the children.

9:29 AM, February 22, 2006  
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