Friday, December 23, 2005

The Dr. Helen Playpen

There are some commenters on this blog who wish to discuss extraneous topics. I understand that some need an outlet for this type of "chat room" so am designating this post as an area where commenters can speak with each other without interrupting the topic at hand. Please note that in the future, should you wish to belittle, harass or just plain annoy other commenters, you will be sent to timeout in the Dr. Helen Playpen where you will be free to pontificate your views with all other interested parties. Thank you for your cooperation.

65 Comments:

Blogger Thomas said...

Heh.

11:50 AM, December 23, 2005  
Anonymous Timothy said...

Indeed!

11:59 AM, December 23, 2005  
Anonymous Auld Pharte said...

And meanwhile, Dr. Helen, a slightly premature Happy Chanukah to you and yours and best wishes for a great 2006.

1:06 PM, December 23, 2005  
Blogger Helen said...

auld pharte,

Happy holidays--I would say Merry Christmas but don't know if that is appropriate anymore...

1:14 PM, December 23, 2005  
Anonymous Auld Pharte said...

Thank you. Merry Christmas works for me.

2:06 PM, December 23, 2005  
Anonymous Brendan Hackler said...

Excellent, that was really well explained and helpful

2:09 PM, December 23, 2005  
Blogger ronin1516 said...

merry Chriatmas to the entire InstaFamily!!!

8:06 PM, December 23, 2005  
Anonymous datarat said...

I'm at a loss. I can't seem to come up with a suitable extraneous comment...

I hate spinach!

Nah. No passion behind that.

Merry Christmas, Happy Chanukah, Hapy Kwaanza, Merry Yule, etc, etc to everyone. The idea is enjoy the season, regardless of the label.

8:34 PM, December 23, 2005  
Blogger Steve Skubinna said...

But... you're stifling freedom of expression! Dissent is patriotic! Bush=Hitler! Why do hot dogs come in packages of ten and buns in packages of eight?

9:10 PM, December 23, 2005  
Blogger Assistant Village Idiot said...

I prefer to pontificate on other people's space, not in free space.

10:07 PM, December 23, 2005  
Anonymous Jeff said...

I raise a glass to whatever God you happen to worship (as long as your God doesn’t want you to cut my head off – because then we have a problem). To the Christians in the house, well, Merry Christmas, one and all.

For the record, I’m rather partial to spinach, and okay – the whole hotdog / bun thing is freaking me out.

To Greg Kuperberg, I’m trying to put up a quick site with a thumbnail bio, as it’s only fair – I did ask you. The trouble is I’m a bit fussy about design, so a day or two in and it will be there Then I’ll give an address.

Greg, I ran straight to the design board when you asked me to identify myself, and I left off the discussion we were having. You had responded:

“Your summary of the problems that the United States faced in Iraq before the invasion very clearly shows how much worse we have it now in that country. It could be better for Iraqis (depending on what course it eventually takes), but it certainly isn't better for Americans.”

I respectfully disagree. (I also disagree anonymity on the web is objectionable, too, but that’s for another time). I have no time for argument just now, but I will say I appreciate your point of view, and when you do get the chance to see my bio I’ll email the address, and maybe we can pick this up using our email rather that Helen’s bandwidth. (The page is almost finished, just content now, really, so maybe in the first few days of the New Year. The design is hot – by the way). However you happen to celebrate this season, I hope it makes you smile in your sleep.

Merry Christmas, Helen! Thanks for the great blog.

Jeff

11:03 PM, December 23, 2005  
Blogger Greg Kuperberg said...

Jeff: Merry Christmas to you too. To be honest, I'm not sure exactly what I celebrate at the end of December. Whatever it really is, I don't mind calling it Christmas. But that's a discussion for some other blog entry, I suppose.

As is the war in Iraq. It's up to Helen to start such a discussion in her blog, or not.

11:48 PM, December 23, 2005  
Anonymous Jeff said...

Greg,

Helen said: “There are some commenters on this blog who wish to discuss extraneous topics.”

Jeff said: “. . .and maybe we can pick this up using our email rather that Helen’s bandwidth.”

Greg responded: “But that's a discussion for some other blog entry, I suppose. As is the war in Iraq. It's up to Helen to start such a discussion in her blog, or not.”

It seems Helen has made such an accommodation to “start such a discussion in her blog” in this very thread and you might note: I offered an alternative to her blog as an option to continue the dialogue we had begun previously here. Admittedly, the war in Iraq was a digression from the original thread’s subject, which was Family Ties if I recall correctly, but not a digression I instigated – rather, I was responding to a rip you made on the administration. Also, I don’t believe Helen began the political end of the discussion, so where was your corrective rectitude then?

My offering to continue the earlier dialogue was a courtesy, as was my willingness to undo my anonymity (I wasn’t linking to a dead page; I came with no promise of self-revelation).

You response here was rude, I think, as well as non sequitur.

One last thing: I had intended to mention - in the “Family Ties” thread, I agreed with the last comment you made regarding taking ameliorative action rather than nurturing a grudge. It’s my practice.

Jeff

1:36 AM, December 24, 2005  
Blogger Greg Kuperberg said...

Jeff: I didn't mean to brush you off. I took Helen's "playpen" entry here to mean that the commenters should stay on-topic, not that she really wanted an "open mike" blog entry. It's Helen's blog and it's up to her to control the topic.

The "Family Ties" entry sort-of slid into Iraq. Helen herself mentioned Condi Rice, and I expanded on that, then someone named DRJ brought up Iraq. All of that was before the present reprimand about playpens.

If you want to talk about Iraq, we can talk about Iraq. Although my interest is in a public discussion somewhere rather than one-on-one e-mail.

4:02 AM, December 24, 2005  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

I think the real point of our host is for posters to be polite to one another, and refrain from insults of a pesonal nature.

The wild changes in topic didn't seem to be a big deal, really. Rude statements were.

Of course, no one here is guilty of being rude to other posters, right?

10:54 AM, December 24, 2005  
Blogger DRJ said...

I'm Christian, but I am delighted to wish my Jewish friends and acquaintances Happy Channukah and similarly to wish a Happy Kwanzaa to those who celebrate that holiday. Ditto for other holidays, whether I celebrate them or not. I know it's not PC anymore, but why is there suddenly so much sensitivity about saying Merry Christmas to Christians?

1:36 PM, December 24, 2005  
Blogger Helen said...

drj,

"Why is there suddenly so much sensitivity about saying Merry Christmas to Christians?"

In the mind of the PC crowd, my guess is that they align Christians with men, heterosexuals and capitalists--you know the oppressors of all others. Why say Merry Christmas to them and acknowlege their power? I say screw it and just give the greeting that is most appropriate--Merry Christmas to my Christian friends, Happy Hannukah to my Jewish ones etc.

3:55 PM, December 24, 2005  
Blogger Ken Mitchell said...

Steve & All; The reason why hot dogs come in packages of ten, while buns come in packages of eight, is that you're supposed to eat the other two hot dogs sliced into macaroni & cheese.

Merry Christmas, Happy Hannukah, Merry Yule, Happy Kwanza or Solstice; have I forgotten anyone?

But as a Jew, I believe that just because it isn't my birthday, that doesn't mean I can't help friends celebrate!

4:35 PM, December 24, 2005  
Blogger Greg Kuperberg said...

I'm not Christian, nor in any meaningful sense Jewish. My father is ethnically Jewish, but his parents became atheist in their teens. My mother was raised as a Polish Catholic, but she also became atheist in her teens.

So it is easier for me to recognize the distortion of Christmas as a Christian holiday, and even more so Chanukkah. As explained here, Chanukkah is not the most important Jewish holiday (which is Yom Kippur), nor even in the top five. It has been played up just because of Christmas, even though its historical origin is resistance to Greek assimilation. Saying "Happy Channukah" is a bit like saying "Happy Divorce Day" to your divorced friend. You may not remember his birthday, but you remember that he drinks a beer on the day of his divorce because it's the same week as your birthday.

For that matter, Christmas is not by any logic the most important Christian holiday. That ought to be Easter. Most American Christmas rituals are unmistakably pagan. Christmas has somewhat more religious interpretation in Catholicism than in Protestant Christianity, but if anything more is done on Christmas Eve. The traditional Catholic Polish celebration is a Christmas Eve dinner followed by the midnight Mass. (After all, it's called Christmas.) My family actually did the dinner, complete with a communion wafer, when my Catholic grandmother visited. We even opened the presents on Christmas Eve. It was clearly more important than Christmas Day.

That's why I said that I don't know what I really celebrate on Christmas, or more precisely from Christmas to New Year's Day. It isn't Chanukkah and it isn't Christmas. I'm probably celebrating the end of the year. But I don't mind calling it Christmas.

The reason that there is suddenly so much sensitivity about saying Merry Christmas has nothing to do with the mind of the PC crowd. It is a strange contest between American commercialism and pseudo-religious rightist propaganda. Christmas merchants have been saying "Season's Greetings" and "Happy Holidays" for many years in order to sell to all customers. Fox News decided this year to campaign against this capitalist strain of political correctness and blame it on liberals. Bill O'Reilly is the leader of this ugly and hypocritical campaign. It's common reactive bullying, which is antithetical to the teachings of Christ.

4:53 PM, December 24, 2005  
Blogger Yosemite Sam said...

I love it when people naturally react to Leftist PC bullies and their continual assault on traditional American culture, they are the ones who are called bullies by the Left. Just yesterday, the Medway, MA school district changed Christmas tree to Magic tree and is disallowing the wearing of Red and Green hats in the formerly Christmas, now Winter concert. Christmas songs that have been sung for years are changed to remove the word Christmas. This isn't a figment of Bill O'Reilly's and Fox News' imagination.

5:19 PM, December 24, 2005  
Blogger Assistant Village Idiot said...

I always find it amusing when nonbelievers remark with assurance on what is antithetical to the teachings of Christ.

5:54 PM, December 24, 2005  
Blogger Greg Kuperberg said...

Yes, what O'Reilly is doing is bullying, regardless of what happens in Medway. One of the classic aspects of reactive bullying is to distort and exaggerate what other people do in order to claim that they are the real bullies. O'Reilly made a similar accusation against Plano, TX, which turned out to be grossly distorted.

If you are going to complain about Medway, it is important to report the whole truth. Originally the Medway Middle School had planned a production of "Jesus Christ, Superstar". That is what really bothered the non-Christian parents. If the school teaches its kids that Jesus Christ is a superstar, that's very different from just putting up a Christmas tree. The same school officials that did not mind a play with blatant Christian proselytization then panicked and banned everything. I don't know if the officials genuinely respected the complaints, or if it was spiteful over-accomodation. Over-accomodation is of course another part of reactive bullying.

6:03 PM, December 24, 2005  
Blogger DRJ said...

"One of the classic aspects of reactive bullying is to distort and exaggerate what other people do in order to claim that they are the real bullies."

Gosh, Greg, when I first read this quote from you it reminded me of ... you. After all, to blame the secularization of Christmas on Fox News and Bill O'Reilly is a bit reactive, don't you think?

6:14 PM, December 24, 2005  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

It must be nice to live on Planet Kuperberg, a world of complete rational discourse, no errors in fact or judgement, sensitive interpersonal skills, and absolute cultural and moral relativism.

But we are all reacting to it, instead of simply allowing Planet Kuperberg to follow its own self-righteous orbit, alone.

6:26 PM, December 24, 2005  
Blogger Yosemite Sam said...

That's the first time I've ever heard Jesus Christ, Superstar called " blatant Christian proselytization". What color is the sky in your world? I seem to remember evangelical Christians being angry about the portrayal of Jesus in that play.
But anyway, I don't see how you have countered my point. Regardless of their reason, the Medway school district has done as I have stated. Other school districts have done similarly and the singing of a few songs from a 60's musical is far from a First Amendment violation. People are tired of the ceaseless attacks on long standing traditions that have been enjoyed by many generations.

6:43 PM, December 24, 2005  
Blogger Greg Kuperberg said...

DRJ: I very clearly did not blame secularization of Christmas on Fox News and Bill O'Reilly. I think that Christmas has long been secularized by retailers, up to and including Wal-Mart and Target. (Although O'Reilly does his part, despite his campaign.) I also don't personally care whether Christmas is secularized or not.

Rather, I blame Bill O'Reilly for perverting the slogans of Christmas for a campaign of intolerance against non-Christians. Although as the clever "Happy Holidays" caller revealed, he also wants to be Mr. Tolerant.

Yosemite Sam: If some Christians are offended by the content of Jesus Christ, Superstar, that is all the more reason that public schools shouldn't produce it just before Christmas. You have a point about one thing. I assumed that it was non-Christians who objected to this play, but it may have been evangelical Christians! Either way, the school is wading deep into religious waters with plays like this. They might as well have shown The Passion of the Christ or The Life of Brian. Or hey, all three. (It would be interesting, although maybe grim in the end, if some high school showed all three of these movies the week before Christmas.)

Despite what Medway thinks, it is not about red and green hats. The school didn't have to ban the hats, and probably they didn't want to either. I don't know if they banned the hats because they were morons or soreheads, but certainly liberals didn't make them do it.

7:31 PM, December 24, 2005  
Blogger Yosemite Sam said...

" don't know if they banned the hats because they were morons or soreheads, but certainly liberals didn't make them do it."

Interesting comment. I certainly don't think there is some evil cabal of liberals out there that are trying to destroy Christmas, but I do think that decisions like the one in Milford are driven by a kind of overly zealous pandering to a tiny minority of people that complain about any representation of Christmas.
I would also say that since this is Massachusetts, the school's administrators are most likely of a more liberal persuasion and that they did it(the bans) for PC reasons.
Also, they weren't going to perform the Jesus Christ Superstar play, just a few songs from the play at a winter concert next month.

9:49 PM, December 24, 2005  
Blogger Greg Kuperberg said...

Actually Jesus Christ, Superstar is a musical, or a "rock opera". So it's almost all songs. The second page of the article that you cite suggests that they were going to perform the whole thing, since one of the students was scheduled to perform a line from it.

If you don't think that there is a liberal cabal out to destroy Christmas, then basically you and I agree. But the phrase from Fox News is "war on Christmas". I guess I would agree that there is a lot of overzealous pandering of many kinds out there. But there is no report in this case that anyone complained about "any representation of Christmas", only that two parents complained about Jesus Christ, Superstar. They may have been so overzealous that they pandered to a non-existent minority.

I would just as soon leave all of this pro- and anti-Christmas shadow boxing to other people.

On that note, Merry Christmas to all!

11:02 PM, December 24, 2005  
Blogger ronin1516 said...

About the PC, leftist Christmas-hating types. Just pay them no mind, and they will get tired of complaining and whining and go away. Now, if only we could get public oficials and school administrators to grow a spine and not cave in to the Christmas-haters complaints. If I were a school administrator, I'd ask the whiners to go home and home-school their kids, so that they could teach their kids in any manner they choose. Plus, a swift kick in the pants might help too!!

10:17 AM, December 25, 2005  
Blogger Greg Kuperberg said...

It would nice to have some named examples of influential parents who actually hate Christmas, not just school administrators who over-accomodate hypothetical parents.

The only recorded objection in the Medway case is that two parents didn't like Jesus Christ, Superstar in the public school. Actually, I'm not sure any more that songs from this musical are inappropriate in public school. You could argue it either way. Either way, Jesus Christ, Superstar is not a Christmas tradition.

Since no one has named names, I'm going to quote Henry Ford from 1921 on his theory of who the problem is:

Chicago board of education, scene of much Jewish agitation, approves recommendation of subcommittee to remove Christmas from the list of official holidays in public schools. In response to demands of Jews, the Revere, Massachusetts school board consents to remove references to Jesus from Christmas exercises in public schools.

1:13 PM, December 25, 2005  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

assistant village idiot:

i am a non-believer who is, i think, as well qualified to remark on what is anti-thetical to the teachings of christ as any christian. i didn't just up and decide willy-nilly not to believe. i did so after six years of attending a christian school and watching christians in action at school and church.

i don't know about where you are, but here most churches are closed this christmas morning. why, holding services would cut into that all important gift-opening time.

and you christians wonder why the rest of us fail to be inspired by your faith.

2:17 PM, December 25, 2005  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

drj:

greg quite clearly did not blame the secularization of christmas on o'reilly or foxnews.

he said they were blaming that secularization on liberals.

did you even bother to read the post?

2:19 PM, December 25, 2005  
Blogger DRJ said...

Greg - "I blame Bill O'Reilly for perverting the slogans of Christmas for a campaign of intolerance against non-Christians."

It sounds good to say that Bill O'Reilly and Fox News are intolerant to non-Christians, but is it really offensive to you that stores sell Christmas trees in December or that people wish each other Merry Christmas? If Walmart doesn't want to sell Christmas trees, most people will still shop there but some won't. Why not let the market decide? I'm Christian and in December I want to wish people Merry Christmas and buy Christmas products, but I'm happy to exchange appropriate holiday greetings with people of other religions. Why do you feel so bothered that you describe my desire to experience Christmas (as opposed to a generic winter holiday) as a campaign of intolerance? And how in the world does any of this pervert the "slogans of Christmas"?


anonymous 2:17 - "i don't know about where you are, but here most churches are closed this christmas morning. why, holding services would cut into that all important gift-opening time.
and you christians wonder why the rest of us fail to be inspired by your faith."

Where do you live? Ask any minister and they will tell you that Christmas and Easter are far and away the biggest attendance days for Christian and Catholic churches. You must live in a very blue state if your churches aren't having services today, and frankly I don't believe you. Further, don't blame religion if believers are sometimes hypocritical. Non-believers are, too.


anonymous 2:19 - "did you even bother to read the post?"

Why no, I don't bother to read any posts before I comment, because like you I just like to hear myself talk. But now that you've exposed my secret, perhaps I will refrain from commenting on the internet - at least until you troll on to another site.

4:01 PM, December 25, 2005  
Blogger Greg Kuperberg said...

DRJ: No, I really don't care that Wal-Mart sells Christmas trees. It's also fine with me if people wish each other Merry Christmas, or if Wal-Mart wishes its customers Merry Christmas. But the market decided differently on that last point. In order to maximize market share, Wal-Mart says "Happy Holidays" rather than "Merry Christmas". That's fine with me too. I never cared one way or the other.

What is intolerant is the title of John Gibson's book: "The War on Christmas: How the Liberal Plot to Ban the Sacred Christian Holiday Is Worse Than You Thought". The associated television campaign is equally intolerant. They have updated an old Jewish conspiracy theory, going back at least to Henry Ford in 1921, by replacing "Jewish" with "liberal". It shouldn't fool anyone if they replace hatred of Jews by hatred of abstract multiculturalism. It may no longer be anti-Semitism, but it's still intolerance.

Casting conspiracy theories certainly is a perversion of the spirit of Christmas. It isn't turning the other cheek, as Christ recommended in the Sermon on the Mount.

I will admit one thing though: You personally didn't fabricate the "War on Christmas". I hope that you don't worry about this nonsense today, of all days. I hope that you have a Merry Christmas.

6:05 PM, December 25, 2005  
Blogger DRJ said...

Greg -

On a minor point about how the market will handle Christmas: I think the jury is still out. Some stores will market Christmas, Hanukkah, Kwanzaa, and other holidays explicitly; Others will opt for more secular advertising. If there is a "war on Christmas", I think this is the beginning rather than the end.

I also agree that I don't care if Walmart or other merchants explicitly mention Christmas. After all, phrases like Season's Greetings and Happy Holidays have been used by merchants for years. In the past, however, it was clear that merchants were looking for variety in advertising and were not deliberately avoiding use of Christmas phrases, whereas now many merchants are obviously avoiding any reference to Christmas in their advertising and displays. I do resent it when a merchant explicitly and intentionally avoids references to Christmas, and I factor that in when I decide whether to make a purchase.

Not surprisingly, I'm not that upset with John Gibson's book - although I haven't read it, I don't plan to buy it, and at this point I don't share his level of concern. He has written a book that reflects his opinion, and the market and the persuasiveness of his opinion will tell us whether people agree or disagree with him. With rare exception, I think dissemination of ideas is a good thing and I'm sure you, as a scholar and academic, also value the free dissemination of ideas. Ultimately, the only way to exterminate bias (whether it is bias against liberals, Jews, or anyone else) is by exposing it to the light of public opinion.

For the record, then, I view this as a market issue where people use their pocketbook to support merchants who sell products they want to buy. If Walmart is selling Christmas products, I'm buying. Otherwise, I'm not. John Gibson wants to energize consumers who feel the same way, much like Ralph Nader encouraged consumers to demand better cars from the auto manufacturers. Merchants may not like it, but I don't see the need to call out the thought police on this issue.

I'm at a loss on how to specifically respond to your theory that liberals are bearing the brunt of modern-day anti-Semitism. Drawing parallels with anti-Semitism in this case is inflammatory but, at a minimum, I fail to see how wanting to preserve Christmas can be seen as an attack on liberals, let alone how it can be equated to anti-Semitism. My best guess is that you believe any attempts to retain Christian traditions in America are in fact attacks on liberals, since liberals generally value secular principles. It may surprise you, but I could understand that viewpoint. Central to liberal ideology is the notion that we must all get along, hence tolerance is one of the highest liberal/secular values. As a conservative, I embrace the notion that while we must coexist, we don't all have to agree.

Thank you for your Christmas wishes. It has been a wonderful weekend. Best wishes to you and your family as well.

7:24 PM, December 25, 2005  
Blogger Greg Kuperberg said...

DRJ: There is an enormous, immortal market for an end-of-year gift-giving holiday that is usually called Christmas, but is sometimes renamed Chanukkah or Kwanzaa. The holiday itself has more in common with the pagan Yule celebration than with the Christian "Christ's Mass". The only real market question is what retailers should call this holiday. We seem to agree that it hardly matters.

I doubt that John Gibson's book reflects his opinion. The book, and the Fox News rants that go with it, seem insincere as well as obnoxious. They are at best preaching to the choir, but even some of the choir is disgusted (to judge from the Amazon reviews). As an academic, I don't value the dissemination of insincere cynicism. I agree that it is protected by the First Amendment. That's all that can be said for it.

The subtitle "How the Liberal Plot to Ban the Sacred Christian Holiday Is Worse Than You Thought" can only be read as an attack on liberals. It isn't an attempt to retain Christian traditions. It's a mockery of Christianity (unless you think of a siege mentality as specially Christian). It reminds me of a character from Narnia: Shift the Ape, the faithless demagogue who dressed a donkey in a lion's skin and called it Aslan.

What started me on this, by the way, was a comment near the top of this page: "In the mind of the PC crowd, my guess is that they align Christians with men, heterosexuals and capitalists--you know the oppressors of all others." It's not very different from what Gibson and O'Reilly have to say. Otherwise I would just shrug it off, like you. As you suggest, I'm responding to it where it appeared, because it's an open forum.

8:21 PM, December 25, 2005  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Greg Kuperberg wrote:

"I doubt that John Gibson's book reflects his opinion. "

It does seem as if Planet Kuperberg can read minds, as well. Is the word "omniscient" appropriate?

What a snob. I wonder how much room exists in his personal life for error? Not much, based on his dogmatic and inflammatory rhetoric.

Most of us allow some room for error in our world view.

10:02 PM, December 25, 2005  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

...or perhaps greg is right?

12:03 AM, December 26, 2005  
Blogger $CAV3NG3R said...

assistant village idiot - " I always find it amusing when nonbelievers remark with assurance on what is antithetical to the teachings of Christ."

It's is always funny to me when christians, evangelicals in particular think they 'know' what a non-believer commenting on religion has no iota of an idea about. Then again, the bible is supposedly the infallible word of God aka "God is not man that he should lie, neither the son of man that he should repent..." So on some level I do understand where they acquire this certainty from.

For what it's worth, I'm one of those who have been opportuned to be in a couple of places spiritually. I come from a family that has as many christians as there are moslems (west african) who happen to live together without rancour. What that means is that my mom was born to a muslim family went to a catholic high school married a man who attended the apostolic faith, decided to raise their family as Catholic. So I grew up catholic, joined the Rosicrucian (Amorc) a masonic like entity for a couple of years before I quit. I then became what might be called a fundamentalist christian (so-called, born again, spirit-filled, tongue speaking types) for ten faithful years (faithful as in the whole prayer and dry - no orange-juice drinking - fasting,no sex, no dating unless you want to marry her kind of thing). So Mr. assistant village idiot some of us do know what we are talking about since we've seen more than both sides of the coin.

Of course however, since you've got the inspired, no-error Word. We simply do not have anything sensible to say as we are under the influence of him that worketh in the children of disobedience yada yada yada. Give me a break!

Meanwhile as per the whole holiday thing. Maybe this is one thing you folks can learn from west africans(most), a single extended family usually composes of people of two supposedly diametrically opposite faiths islam and christianity but on christian holidays the moslems visit and have fun with the christians and vice versa. A country like Senegal with a 95% muslim population even has fun on christmas while facing the east and doing their thing. The animists among us join in the fun as well.

When someone wishes you a merry christmas even though you're jewish, realize that it's not like they are proselytizing, they are just wishing you well. It's the thought that counts. Even though I now tend to abhor all that is religious, if you wish me a happy chanukah or (dare i say it?) Krazy kwanzaa, I'll smile and wish you the same. It's the thought that counts. Nobody is trying to convert you by wishing you well. Gawd people need to lighten up. It's like the whole I can't stand my family because we don't share the same political ideals thing. That's just sad. Where I come from we can argue from now till eternity about politics but we'll be doing it over some good Sergeant brown (Satzenbrau) or Guinness and laugh about it at the end of the night. That said, Happy Christmas, Merry Chanukah, A jolly winter solstice and a Naughty kwanzaa to all........!

10:52 AM, December 26, 2005  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

drj:

i live in tennessee. there was a tennessean story on december 8th about churches not having services on christmas morning. i'd link it but you have to pay for an archived story.

as for blaming religion for its hypocritical followers--it's not so much that i blame religion as an action as i blame churches, the followers and the particular faiths in which i find hypocrites in large numbers. isn't there a bible verse in which the so-called "faithful" are rebuked for the destroying the faith of others through their actions?

10:54 AM, December 26, 2005  
Blogger DRJ said...

Anonymous 10:54 - Good post. Sadly, your point about churches is well-taken.

12:19 PM, December 26, 2005  
Blogger Gina said...

are you guys having fun yet ??? LOLOLOL

11:42 PM, December 26, 2005  
Anonymous The Instuneice said...

*sigh* Im still looking for my Blohesphere Fame.. Maybe when im legal. lol.

5:25 PM, December 27, 2005  
Blogger Freeman Hunt said...

Then again, the bible is supposedly the infallible word of God

I know very few Christians who believe this. Perhaps you over generalize your fundamentalist experience.

9:53 AM, December 28, 2005  
Blogger a psychiatrist who learned from veterans said...

Greg seems willing to 'shrug at the piss Christ' and to advocate turning the other cheek but not to be able to shrug off a possibile misundersttanding of another blogger, which would be the fault of the other.

8:09 PM, February 20, 2006  
Anonymous LHX2004X said...

HAVE A HAPPY AND BLESSED NEW YEAR....
FROM MINDSPAN

http://afterburnergalacticlawz1.blogspot.com/

4:45 AM, January 11, 2007  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Very nice site! » » »

11:51 PM, April 25, 2007  
Blogger tman said...

Thanks so much for the blog.

Happy Holidays Everyone!

Childrens Playpens

2:15 PM, December 29, 2007  
Blogger Terry_A_Pierce said...

Wonderful blog.

Cheers,

Andrew
Childrens Furniture

10:45 AM, January 06, 2008  
Blogger xji4ek6 1j4 said...

海鮮餐廳,花蓮餐廳,美食餐廳,好吃餐廳,美食玩家,美食,海產店,花蓮海產店,花蓮美食,海鮮餐廳,花蓮餐廳,美食餐廳,好吃餐廳,美食玩家,美食,海產店,花蓮海產店,花蓮美食,海鮮餐廳,花蓮餐廳,美食餐廳,好吃餐廳,美食玩家,美食,海產店,花蓮海產店,花蓮美食,花蓮海產店,海鮮餐廳,美食餐廳,好吃餐廳,美食玩家,美食,海產店,花蓮餐廳,花蓮美食,花蓮海產店,花蓮餐廳,美食餐廳,好吃餐廳,美食玩家,美食,海產店,海鮮餐廳,花蓮美食,花蓮海產店,花蓮餐廳,美食餐廳,好吃餐廳,美食玩家,美食,海產店,海鮮餐廳,花蓮美食,花蓮海產店,花蓮餐廳,美食餐廳,好吃餐廳,美食玩家,美食,海產店,海鮮餐廳,花蓮美食,花蓮海產店,花蓮餐廳,美食餐廳,好吃餐廳,美食玩家,美食,海產店,海鮮餐廳,花蓮美食,花蓮海產店,花蓮餐廳,美食餐廳,好吃餐廳,美食玩家,美食,海產店,海鮮餐廳,花蓮美食,花蓮海產店,花蓮餐廳,美食餐廳,好吃餐廳,美食玩家,美食,海產店,海鮮餐廳,花蓮美食

12:10 PM, February 22, 2009  
Blogger look said...

情趣用品,
性感睡衣,
免費視訊聊天,
視訊交友網,
美姬圖影,
情境坊歡愉用品,
花美姬情趣用品,
成人圖片,
臺灣情色網,
嘟嘟情人色網,
色情網站,
情境坊歡愉用品,
徵信,
徵信公司,
徵信,
外遇,
徵信,
徵信,
抓姦,
徵信,
外遇,
徵信,
徵信社,
徵信社,
抓姦,
徵信社,
徵信社,
徵信社,
,
,
整型,
視訊聊天,
視訊交友,
AV女優,
色情,
A片,
A片,
情趣用品,
情色,
A片,
色情影片,
情趣用品,
A片,
AV女優,
視訊聊天室,
聊天,
情趣用品,
情惑用品性易購,
情侶歡愉用品,
A片,
情趣,
情惑用品性易購,
辣妹視訊,
自慰套,
情侶歡愉用品,
寄情築園小遊戲,
aio交友愛情館,
美女視訊,
色情A片,
情趣用品,
徵信社,
情趣用品,
A片,
美女視訊,
色情A片,
AV女優,
A片,
辣妹視訊,
自慰套,
情侶歡愉用品,

11:25 PM, March 14, 2009  
Blogger mmbox said...

本土成人貼圖站大台灣情色網台灣男人幫論壇A圖網嘟嘟成人電影網火辣春夢貼圖網情色貼圖俱樂部台灣成人電影絲襪美腿樂園18美女貼圖區柔情聊天網707網愛聊天室聯盟台北69色情貼圖區38女孩情色網台灣映像館波波成人情色網站美女成人貼圖區無碼貼圖力量色妹妹性愛貼圖區日本女優貼圖網日本美少女貼圖區亞洲風暴情色貼圖網哈啦聊天室美少女自拍貼圖辣妹成人情色網台北女孩情色網辣手貼圖情色網AV無碼女優影片男女情色寫真貼圖a片天使俱樂部萍水相逢遊戲區平水相逢遊戲區免費視訊交友90739免費視訊聊天辣妹視訊 - 影音聊天網080視訊聊天室日本美女肛交美女工廠貼圖區百分百貼圖區亞洲成人電影情色網台灣本土自拍貼圖網麻辣貼圖情色網好色客成人圖片貼圖區711成人AV貼圖區台灣美女貼圖區筱萱成人論壇咪咪情色貼圖區momokoko同學會視訊kk272視訊情色文學小站成人情色貼圖區嘟嘟成人網嘟嘟情人色網 - 貼圖區免費色情a片下載台灣情色論壇成人影片分享免費視訊聊天區微風 成人 論壇kiss文學區taiwankiss文學區

6:25 AM, March 22, 2009  
Blogger mmbox said...

2008真情寫真aa片免費看捷克論壇微風論壇大眾論壇plus論壇080視訊聊天室情色視訊交友90739美女交友-成人聊天室色情小說做愛成人圖片區豆豆色情聊天室080豆豆聊天室 小辣妹影音交友網台中情人聊天室桃園星願聊天室高雄網友聊天室新中台灣聊天室中部網友聊天室嘉義之光聊天室基隆海岸聊天室中壢網友聊天室南台灣聊天室南部聊坊聊天室台南不夜城聊天室南部網友聊天室屏東網友聊天室台南網友聊天室屏東聊坊聊天室雲林網友聊天室大學生BBS聊天室網路學院聊天室屏東夜語聊天室孤男寡女聊天室一網情深聊天室心靈饗宴聊天室流星花園聊天室食色男女色情聊天室真愛宣言交友聊天室情人皇朝聊天室上班族成人聊天室上班族f1影音視訊聊天室哈雷視訊聊天室080影音視訊聊天室38不夜城聊天室援交聊天室080080哈啦聊天室台北已婚聊天室已婚廣場聊天室 夢幻家族聊天室摸摸扣扣同學會聊天室520情色聊天室QQ成人交友聊天室免費視訊網愛聊天室愛情公寓免費聊天室拉子性愛聊天室柔情網友聊天室哈啦影音交友網哈啦影音視訊聊天室櫻井莉亞三點全露寫真集123上班族聊天室尋夢園上班族聊天室成人聊天室上班族080上班族聊天室6k聊天室粉紅豆豆聊天室080豆豆聊天網新豆豆聊天室080聊天室免費音樂試聽流行音樂試聽免費aa片試看免費a長片線上看色情貼影片免費a長片

6:25 AM, March 22, 2009  
Blogger nini said...

85cc免費影城 愛情公寓正妹牆川藏第一美女 成人影片 情色交友網 美女視訊 美女視訊 視訊情人高雄網 JP成人影城 383成人影城 aa片免費a片下載 a片線上看aa片免費看 ※a片線上試看※sex520免費影片※ aa片免費看 BT成人論壇 金瓶影片交流區 自拍美女聊天室 aa片免費a片下載 SEX520免費影片 免費a片 日本美女寫真集 sex520aa免費影片 sex520aa免費影片 BT成人網 Hotsee免費視訊交友 百分百貼影片區 SEX520免費影片 免費視訊聊天室 情人視訊高雄網 星光情色討論版 正妹牆 383成人影城 線上85cc免費影城 85cc免費影城 85cc免費影城 85cc免費影城 ※免費視訊聊天室※ ※免費視訊聊天室※ 免費視訊聊天室 85cc免費影片 85cc免費影片 080苗栗人聊天室 080苗栗人聊天室 080中部人聊天室 080中部人聊天室 免費a片下載 免費a片 AA片免費看 aa片免費看 aa片免費看 aa片免費看 aa片免費看 日本av女優影片 av女優 av女優無碼影城 av女優 av女優 百分百成人圖片 百分百成人圖片 視訊情人高雄網 電話交友 影音電話交友 絕色影城 絕色影城 夜未眠成人影城 夜未眠成人影城 色咪咪影片網 色咪咪影片網 色咪咪影片網 色咪咪影片網 色咪咪影片網 免費色咪咪貼影片 免費色咪咪貼影片 色情遊戲 色情遊戲 色情遊戲 色情遊戲 影音視訊交友網 視訊交友網 080視訊聊天室 ※免費視訊聊天室※ ※免費視訊聊天室※ 視訊聊天室 成人影音視訊聊天室 ut影音視訊聊天室 ※免費視訊聊天室※ 視訊ukiss聊天室視訊ukiss聊天室 視訊交友90739 視訊交友90739 情人視訊網 168視訊美女 168視訊美女 168視訊美女 視訊美女館 視訊美女館 免費視訊美女網 小高聊天室 小高聊天室 aio交友聊天室 aio交友聊天室 交友聊天室 交友聊天室 線上a片 線上a片 線上a片 線上a片 線上a片 免費線上a片 免費線上a片 嘟嘟成人網站 成人漫畫 情色文學 嘟嘟成人網 成人貼圖區 情色文學成人小說 微風成人區 情色貼圖區 免費視訊聊天 免費成人圖片區 愛情公寓 愛情公寓聊天室 寄情築園小遊戲 免費aa片線上看 aa片免費看 情色SXE聊天室 SEX情色遊戲 色情A片 免費下載 av女優 俱樂部 情色論壇 辣妹視訊 情色貼圖網 免費色情 聊天室 情人視訊聊天室 免費a片成人影城 免費a片-aa片免費看 0204貼圖區 SEX情色 交友聊天-線上免費 女優天堂 成人交友網 成人情色貼圖區 18禁 -女優王國 080視訊美女聊天室 080視訊聊天室 視訊交友90739 免費a片 aio 視訊交友網 成人影城-免費a片※免費視訊聊天※85cc免費影片日本線上免費a片 免費色咪咪影片免費色咪咪影片aaa片免費看影片aaa片免費看成人影城免費色咪咪影片

12:58 PM, April 05, 2009  
Blogger 天天看正妹 said...

85cc免費影城aa的滿18歲影片85cc免費影片aaa免費看影片aaaaa片俱樂部影片免費 a 片85cc免費影片aa影片下載城微風成人av論壇免費a片aaa片免費看影片aaa片免費看短片小魔女免費影片免費視訊聊天 a片免費看a 免費影片觀賞免費視訊聊天室微風成人85cc免費影片85cc成人影城免費成人視訊亞洲禁果影城aa的滿18歲影片A片-sex女優王國aaaaa片俱樂部免費卡通影片線上觀看線上免費a片觀看A片-sex女優王國情色偷拍免費A片免費A片免費看 aa的滿18歲影片aaa影片下載城日本免費視訊av俱樂部後宮0204movie免費影片免費 a 片ut聊天室辣妹視訊情色美女視訊聊天室免費卡通影片線上觀看 ut交友成人視訊免費A片av1688影音視訊天堂aaa的滿18歲卡通影片s383情色大網咖視訊美女館aaaa 片俱樂部免費a片卡通aaaa片免費看影片aaa片免費看短片 杜蕾斯成人UT影音視訊聊天室 免費視訊78論壇免費aaaaa片俱樂部影片aaaa彩虹頻道免費影片aa影片下載城色漫畫帝國kk777視訊俱樂部美女視訊5278論壇ut聊天室aio交友愛情館免費視訊聊天成人a圖片區小說頻道彩虹頻道免費影片jp成人小魔女免費影城免費 aa 片試看情色文學A片-無碼援交東京熱一本道亞洲東洋影片gay片免費下載卡通aa片免費看成人影片分享小魔女免費影片視訊高雄情人聊天室34c卡通美女a片免費試看av免費影片,視訊聊天go2av免費影片情色 網站sex女優王國高中生援交偷拍自拍限制級色情 片plus論壇080情人網免費av影片免費a片卡通浪漫月光論壇免費aa片avdvd無碼影音視訊交友 免費視訊辣妹情人視訊網免費視訊辣妹 免費視訊78論壇台灣kiss情色貼圖區sex免費看影片彩虹論壇免費視訊聊天室 咆哮小老鼠分享論壇月宮貼圖色妹妹嘟嘟情人色網日本美女寫真集,kk視訊成人情色 視訊21sexsexy辣妹視訊百分百成人情色圖片ut辣妹哈啦視訊聊天室 素人自拍免費影片線上觀賞論壇男人的最愛中國性愛城avdvd無碼aaa免費看影片bt電影下載,免費成人片免費a片卡通dudu sex

9:20 PM, April 08, 2009  
Blogger 天天看正妹 said...

85cc免費影城aa的滿18歲影片85cc免費影片aaa免費看影片aaaaa片俱樂部影片免費 a 片85cc免費影片aa影片下載城微風成人av論壇免費a片aaa片免費看影片aaa片免費看短片小魔女免費影片免費視訊聊天 a片免費看a 免費影片觀賞免費視訊聊天室微風成人85cc免費影片85cc成人影城免費成人視訊亞洲禁果影城aa的滿18歲影片A片-sex女優王國aaaaa片俱樂部免費卡通影片線上觀看線上免費a片觀看A片-sex女優王國情色偷拍免費A片免費A片免費看 aa的滿18歲影片aaa影片下載城日本免費視訊av俱樂部後宮0204movie免費影片免費 a 片ut聊天室辣妹視訊情色美女視訊聊天室免費卡通影片線上觀看 ut交友成人視訊免費A片av1688影音視訊天堂aaa的滿18歲卡通影片s383情色大網咖視訊美女館aaaa 片俱樂部免費a片卡通aaaa片免費看影片aaa片免費看短片 杜蕾斯成人UT影音視訊聊天室 免費視訊78論壇免費aaaaa片俱樂部影片aaaa彩虹頻道免費影片aa影片下載城色漫畫帝國kk777視訊俱樂部美女視訊5278論壇ut聊天室aio交友愛情館免費視訊聊天成人a圖片區小說頻道彩虹頻道免費影片jp成人小魔女免費影城免費 aa 片試看情色文學A片-無碼援交東京熱一本道亞洲東洋影片gay片免費下載卡通aa片免費看成人影片分享小魔女免費影片視訊高雄情人聊天室34c卡通美女a片免費試看av免費影片,視訊聊天go2av免費影片情色 網站sex女優王國高中生援交偷拍自拍限制級色情 片plus論壇080情人網免費av影片免費a片卡通浪漫月光論壇免費aa片avdvd無碼影音視訊交友 免費視訊辣妹情人視訊網免費視訊辣妹 免費視訊78論壇台灣kiss情色貼圖區sex免費看影片彩虹論壇免費視訊聊天室 咆哮小老鼠分享論壇月宮貼圖色妹妹嘟嘟情人色網日本美女寫真集,kk視訊成人情色 視訊21sexsexy辣妹視訊百分百成人情色圖片ut辣妹哈啦視訊聊天室 素人自拍免費影片線上觀賞論壇男人的最愛中國性愛城avdvd無碼aaa免費看影片bt電影下載,免費成人片免費a片卡通dudu sex

9:20 PM, April 08, 2009  
Blogger 天天看正妹 said...

免費視訊聊天
ut聊天室辣妹視訊
kk777視訊俱樂部
UT影音視訊聊天室
吉澤明步
85cc免費影片
立花里子無碼
aaa片免費看短片
美女視訊
台南視訊,080情人網
日本免費視訊
aa片免費看
視訊網愛聊天室
影音視訊交友
咆哮小老鼠分享論壇
sex520免費影片
aio辣妺視訊
百事無碼a片
jp成人影片
免費av成人 情色
免費視訊美女色美眉部落格
168論壇視訊辣妹
免費色咪咪視訊網pc交友
s383視訊玩美女人
34c高雄視訊聊天
yam交友辣妹妹影音視訊聊天室
aaa俱樂部
jp成人
Show-live視訊聊天室
免費視訊辣妹
QQ美女視訊秀
live173影音視訊聊天室
真人視訊交友
辣妹妹影音視訊聊天室
倉井空免費影片
UT視訊美女交友
視訊美女 寫真
視訊情色網
亞洲東洋影片avdvd
ut聊天室kk俱樂部視訊
激情網愛聊天
秘密情人影音視訊網
av無碼,一夜情,偷拍,免費影片下載
色漫畫帝國sex888免費看影
拓網視訊交友
34c視訊網愛聊天室
xxx383美女寫真迷愛聊天
sex999免費影片兼職援交
辣妹視訊網
免費視訊78論壇
情色香港論壇
我愛78論壇情色情趣 商品
美女show-live視訊情色
美眉共和國080情人網
s383情色大網咖視訊
aaa免費看影片
kk777視訊俱樂部
小魔女影城
sexy diamond sex888入口
104免費成人情色文學小說
免費成人影片,g點
彩虹無碼av女優
成人免費視訊 完美女人
美女短片免費試看
tw33 影片交流
南台灣視訊網愛聊天室
sex888movie影城
18 禁亞洲名模瘋情
洪爺免費線上歐美A片段觀看
情人辣妹影片視訊直播
QQ美女視訊秀
hi5 tv免費影片sex貼片網
新浪視訊
日本視訊小魔女自拍
美女交友影音視訊聊天室
domain hilive.tv限制級
sex888免費看影片波霸美女寫真
love104影音live秀
甜心寶貝直播貼片自慰
捷克論壇
桃園援交小魔女自拍天堂
裸體高雄援交妹
gogo2sex桃園視訊妹
85cc情色視訊交友
視訊妹迷愛聊天
34c情人視訊網愛聊天室
南台灣視訊貓貓論壇
視訊美女
21sex美女視訊交友
34c美女寶貝視訊
免費a片線上觀看s383視訊
視訊交友90739,限制級,777美女dvd
免費成人影片,日本美女寫真集
080情人網,本土自拍貼圖
ut同志交友網
禁地論壇比基尼辣妹
dvd線上aa片免費看
show-live名模視訊
情人小魔女自拍
視訊自拍美女聊天室

9:20 PM, April 08, 2009  
Blogger 天天看正妹 said...

免費視訊聊天
ut聊天室辣妹視訊
kk777視訊俱樂部
UT影音視訊聊天室
吉澤明步
85cc免費影片
立花里子無碼
aaa片免費看短片
美女視訊
台南視訊,080情人網
日本免費視訊
aa片免費看
視訊網愛聊天室
影音視訊交友
咆哮小老鼠分享論壇
sex520免費影片
aio辣妺視訊
百事無碼a片
jp成人影片
免費av成人 情色
免費視訊美女色美眉部落格
168論壇視訊辣妹
免費色咪咪視訊網pc交友
s383視訊玩美女人
34c高雄視訊聊天
yam交友辣妹妹影音視訊聊天室
aaa俱樂部
jp成人
Show-live視訊聊天室
免費視訊辣妹
QQ美女視訊秀
live173影音視訊聊天室
真人視訊交友
辣妹妹影音視訊聊天室
倉井空免費影片
UT視訊美女交友
視訊美女 寫真
視訊情色網
亞洲東洋影片avdvd
ut聊天室kk俱樂部視訊
激情網愛聊天
秘密情人影音視訊網
av無碼,一夜情,偷拍,免費影片下載
色漫畫帝國sex888免費看影
拓網視訊交友
34c視訊網愛聊天室
xxx383美女寫真迷愛聊天
sex999免費影片兼職援交
辣妹視訊網
免費視訊78論壇
情色香港論壇
我愛78論壇情色情趣 商品
美女show-live視訊情色
美眉共和國080情人網
s383情色大網咖視訊
aaa免費看影片
kk777視訊俱樂部
小魔女影城
sexy diamond sex888入口
104免費成人情色文學小說
免費成人影片,g點
彩虹無碼av女優
成人免費視訊 完美女人
美女短片免費試看
tw33 影片交流
南台灣視訊網愛聊天室
sex888movie影城
18 禁亞洲名模瘋情
洪爺免費線上歐美A片段觀看
情人辣妹影片視訊直播
QQ美女視訊秀
hi5 tv免費影片sex貼片網
新浪視訊
日本視訊小魔女自拍
美女交友影音視訊聊天室
domain hilive.tv限制級
sex888免費看影片波霸美女寫真
love104影音live秀
甜心寶貝直播貼片自慰
捷克論壇
桃園援交小魔女自拍天堂
裸體高雄援交妹
gogo2sex桃園視訊妹
85cc情色視訊交友
視訊妹迷愛聊天
34c情人視訊網愛聊天室
南台灣視訊貓貓論壇
視訊美女
21sex美女視訊交友
34c美女寶貝視訊
免費a片線上觀看s383視訊
視訊交友90739,限制級,777美女dvd
免費成人影片,日本美女寫真集
080情人網,本土自拍貼圖
ut同志交友網
禁地論壇比基尼辣妹
dvd線上aa片免費看
show-live名模視訊
情人小魔女自拍
視訊自拍美女聊天室

9:20 PM, April 08, 2009  
Blogger 天天看正妹 said...

"免費視訊美女520sexy girl
sogo論壇aa片免費看
免費線上 aa 片試看85CC
情色18 禁sex520免費a長片
av女優影片情色文學
日本av淫蕩人妻免費漫畫帝國
777美女dvd無碼av女優
視訊辣妹girl5320 貼片貼圖區
本土自拍影片qq 美美色網漫畫
百分百成人圖片avdvd
視訊辣妹找援交
dodo豆豆聊天室
成人影片下載免費線上a片
sex999日本美女寫真集
色情漫畫777美女dvdav
小護士免費 aa 片試看
網路自拍美女聊天室天堂
080聊天網桃園天堂
雪之深戀 080聊天網水之浪漫
sex888入口免費性影片觀賞
高中生援交偷拍自拍限制級色情 片
aa 片試看免費卡通
百分百成人情色圖片
嘟嘟情人網影片
內衣模特兒寫真成人圖貼
免費視訊78論壇
拓網學生族視訊777美女
辣妹有約辣妹no31314視訊
dudu sex免費 aa 片試看
成人a影片論壇
"

9:20 PM, April 08, 2009  
Blogger 天天看正妹 said...

"免費視訊美女520sexy girl
sogo論壇aa片免費看
免費線上 aa 片試看85CC
情色18 禁sex520免費a長片
av女優影片情色文學
日本av淫蕩人妻免費漫畫帝國
777美女dvd無碼av女優
視訊辣妹girl5320 貼片貼圖區
本土自拍影片qq 美美色網漫畫
百分百成人圖片avdvd
視訊辣妹找援交
dodo豆豆聊天室
成人影片下載免費線上a片
sex999日本美女寫真集
色情漫畫777美女dvdav
小護士免費 aa 片試看
網路自拍美女聊天室天堂
080聊天網桃園天堂
雪之深戀 080聊天網水之浪漫
sex888入口免費性影片觀賞
高中生援交偷拍自拍限制級色情 片
aa 片試看免費卡通
百分百成人情色圖片
嘟嘟情人網影片
內衣模特兒寫真成人圖貼
免費視訊78論壇
拓網學生族視訊777美女
辣妹有約辣妹no31314視訊
dudu sex免費 aa 片試看
成人a影片論壇
"

9:21 PM, April 08, 2009  
Blogger 123456 said...

广州托盘复合托盘食品托盘天津木托盘胶合板托盘蜂窝纸托盘塑木托盘熏蒸木托盘木制托盘广东塑料托盘钢托盘钢制托盘栈板塑料栈板木栈板垫仓板托盘包装求购托盘天津托盘温州托盘山东托盘北京托盘上海木托盘塑胶托盘卡板纸卡板塑料卡板手推车推车机场手推车好孩子手推车液压手推车超市手推车医用手推车康贝手推车不锈钢手推车平板车电动平板车老虎车静音手推车平板手推车小推车模具架置物架堆垛架巧固架整理架物料整理架挂板架整理柜零件柜零件整理柜文件整理柜仓储笼仓库笼料箱塑料箱钢制料箱货箱整理箱塑料整理箱周转箱塑料周转箱防静电周转箱求购周转箱物流箱物料盒零件盒塑料零件盒卡板箱周转筐塑料周转筐周转箩登高车物流台车台车密集架档案密集架文件柜办公文件柜北京文件柜广州文件柜上海文件柜南京文件柜深圳文件柜钢制文件柜铁皮文件柜档案柜文件柜厂底图柜档案柜鞋柜储物柜更衣柜防火防磁柜防磁柜防火防磁文件柜图书架资料柜工具柜

1:57 AM, April 13, 2009  
Blogger 徵信 said...

外遇外遇外遇外遇外遇外遇外遇外遇外遇 外遇
外遇 外遇外遇 外遇 外遇
外遇 外遇 外遇
外遇


外遇 外遇
外遇
外遇 外遇外遇
外遇

外遇 外遇外遇 外遇 外遇 , 外遇 , 外遇 , 外遇 , 外遇 , 外遇 , 外遇 , 外遇 , 外遇 , 外遇 ,
外遇 外遇 外遇 , 外遇 , 外遇 , 外遇 , 外遇 , 外遇 , 外遇 , 外遇 , 外遇 , 外遇 , 外遇 , 外遇 , 外遇外遇 外遇外遇 外遇 外遇

外遇 外遇

外遇 , 外遇 , 外遇 , 外遇 , 外遇 , 外遇 , 外遇 , 外遇 , 外遇 , 外遇 , 外遇 , 外遇 , 外遇 , 外遇 , 外遇 , 外遇 , 外遇 , 外遇 , 外遇 , 外遇 , 外遇 , 外遇 , 外遇 , 外遇 , 外遇 , 外遇 , 外遇 , 外遇 , 外遇 , 外遇 , 外遇 , 外遇 , 外遇 , 外遇 , 外遇 , 外遇 , 外遇 , 外遇 , 外遇 , 外遇 , 外遇 , 外遇 , 外遇 , 外遇 , 外遇 , 外遇 , 外遇 , 外遇 , 外遇 , 外遇 , 外遇 , 外遇 , 外遇 , 外遇 , 外遇 , 外遇 , 外遇 , 外遇 , 外遇 , 外遇 , 外遇 , 外遇 , 外遇 , 外遇 , 外遇 , 外遇 , 外遇 , 外遇 , 外遇 , 外遇 , 外遇 , 外遇 , 外遇 , 外遇 , 外遇 , 外遇 , 外遇 , 外遇 , 外遇 , 外遇 , 外遇 , 外遇 , 外遇 , 外遇 , 外遇 , 外遇 , 外遇 , 外遇 , 外遇 , 外遇 , 外遇 , 外遇 , 外遇 , 外遇 , 外遇 , 外遇 , 外遇 , 外遇 , 外遇 , 外遇 , 外遇 , 外遇 , 外遇 , 外遇 , 外遇 , 外遇 , 外遇 , 外遇 , 外遇 , 外遇 , 外遇 , 外遇 , 外遇 , 外遇 , 外遇 , 外遇 , 外遇 , 外遇 , 外遇 , 外遇 , 外遇 , 外遇 , 外遇 , 外遇 , 外遇 , 外遇 , 外遇 , 外遇 , 外遇 , 外遇 , 外遇 , 外遇 , 外遇 , 外遇 , 外遇 , 外遇 , 外遇 , 外遇 , 外遇 , 外遇 , 外遇 , 外遇 , 外遇 , 外遇 , 外遇 , 外遇 , 外遇 , 外遇 , 外遇 , 外遇 , 外遇 , 外遇 , 外遇 , 外遇 , 外遇 , 外遇 , 外遇 , 外遇 , 外遇 , 外遇 , 外遇 , 外遇 , 外遇 , 外遇 , 外遇 , 外遇 , 外遇 , 外遇 , 外遇 , 外遇 , 外遇 , 外遇 , 外遇 , 外遇 , 外遇 , 外遇 , 外遇 , 外遇 , 外遇 , 外遇 , 外遇 , 外遇 , 外遇 , 外遇 , 外遇 , 外遇 , 外遇 , 外遇 , 外遇 , 外遇 , 外遇 , 外遇 , 外遇 , 外遇 , 外遇 , 外遇 , 外遇 , 外遇 , 外遇 , 外遇 , 外遇 , 外遇 , 外遇 , 外遇 , 外遇 , 外遇 , 外遇 , 外遇 , 外遇 , 外遇 , 外遇 , 外遇 , 外遇 , 外遇 , 外遇 , 外遇 , 外遇 , 外遇 , 外遇 , 外遇 , 外遇 , 外遇 , 外遇 , 外遇 , 外遇 , 外遇 , 外遇 , 外遇 , 外遇 , 外遇 , 外遇 , 外遇 , 外遇 , 外遇 , 外遇 , 外遇 , 外遇 , 外遇 , 外遇 , 外遇 , 外遇 , 外遇 , 外遇 , 外遇 , 外遇 , 外遇 , 外遇 , 外遇 , 外遇 , 外遇 , 外遇 , 外遇 , 外遇 , 外遇 , 外遇 , 外遇 , 外遇 , 外遇 , 外遇 , 外遇 , 外遇 , 外遇 , 外遇 , 外遇 , 外遇 , 外遇 , 外遇 , 外遇 , 外遇 , 外遇 , 外遇 , 外遇 , 外遇 , 外遇 , 外遇 , 外遇 , 外遇 , 外遇 , 外遇 , 外遇 , 外遇 , 外遇 , 外遇 , 外遇 , 外遇 , 外遇 , 外遇 , 外遇 , 外遇 , 外遇 , 外遇 , 外遇 , 外遇 , 外遇 , 外遇 , 外遇 , 外遇 , 外遇 , 外遇 , 外遇 , 外遇 , 外遇 , 外遇 , 外遇 , 外遇 , 外遇 , 外遇 , 外遇 , 外遇 , 外遇 , 外遇 , 外遇 , 外遇 , 外遇 , 外遇 , 外遇 , 外遇 , 外遇 , 外遇 , 外遇 , 外遇 , 外遇 , 外遇 , 外遇 , 外遇 , 外遇 , 外遇 , 外遇 , 外遇劈腿劈腿劈腿劈腿劈腿劈腿劈腿劈腿喜帖囍帖卡片外遇外遇 外遇 外遇外遇 外遇
外遇 外遇 外遇 外遇剖析 外遇調查 外遇案例 外遇諮詢 偷情 第三者外遇話題 外遇發洩 感情挽回 徵信社 外遇心態 外遇 通姦 通姦罪 外遇徵信社徵信社外遇 外遇 抓姦徵信協會徵信公司 包二奶 徵信社 徵信 徵信社 徵信社 徵信社 徵信社 徵信 徵信 婚姻 婚前徵信 前科 個人資料 外遇 第三者 徵信社 偵探社 抓姦 偵探社 偵探社婚 偵探社 偵探社偵探家事服務家事服務家電維修家事服務家事服務家事服務家事服務家事服務持久持久持久持久持久持久持久離婚網頁設計徵信社徵信社徵信徵信社外遇離婚協議書劈腿持久持久持久持久持久劈腿剖析徵信徵信社外遇外遇外遇外遇徵信社徵信社徵信社徵信社徵信社徵信社徵信徵信社徵信徵信徵信徵信徵信徵信徵信徵信徵信徵信徵信徵信徵信徵信徵信徵信徵信徵信徵信徵信徵信徵信徵信徵信社徵信社徵信社徵信社徵信社徵信社徵信社徵信社徵信公會 徵信公會 徵信公會 徵信公會 徵信公會 徵信公會 徵信公會 徵信公會 徵信公會 徵信公會 徵信公會 徵信公會 徵信公會 徵信公會 徵信公會 徵信公會 徵信公會 徵信公會 徵信公會 徵信公會 徵信公會 徵信公會 徵信公會 徵信公會 徵信公會 徵信公會 徵信公會 徵信公會 徵信公會 徵信公會 徵信公會 徵信公會 徵信公會 徵信公會 徵信公會 徵信協會 徵信協會 徵信協會 徵信協會 徵信協會 徵信協會 徵信協會 徵信協會 徵信協會 徵信協會 徵信協會 徵信協會 徵信協會 徵信協會 徵信協會 徵信協會 徵信協會 徵信協會 徵信協會 徵信協會 徵信協會 徵信協會 徵信協會 徵信協會 徵信協會 徵信協會 徵信協會 徵信協會 徵信協會 徵信協會 徵信協會 徵信協會 徵信協會 徵信協會 徵信協會 徵信協會 徵信協會 徵信協會 徵信公會 徵信協會 徵信協會 徵信協會 徵信協會 徵信協會 徵信協會 徵信協會 徵信公會 徵信協會 徵信協會 徵信協會 徵信協會 徵信協會 徵信協會 徵信協會 徵信協會 徵信協會 徵信協會 徵信協會 徵信協會 徵信協會 徵信協會 徵信協會 徵信協會 劈腿 劈腿 劈腿 劈腿 劈腿 劈腿 劈腿 劈腿 劈腿 劈腿 劈腿 劈腿 劈腿 劈腿

11:27 PM, April 19, 2009  
Blogger aaa俱樂部 said...

A片-無碼援交東京熱一本道視訊聊天室免費視訊聊天室微風成人成人聊天室-情色視訊ut聊天室av1688影音視訊天堂免費 a 片85cc免費影城亞洲禁果影城微風成人av論壇sex520免費影片aio交友愛情館免費成人視訊aaa影片下載城免費a片 ut交友成人視訊85cc成人影城免費A片aa的滿18歲影片小魔女免費影片小魔女免費影城免費看 aa的滿18歲影片sex383線上娛樂場kk777視訊俱樂部aa的滿18歲影片85cc免費影片a片免費看A片-sex520視訊做愛聊天室plus論壇sex520免費影片avdvd-情色網qq美美色網ut13077視訊聊天sex383線上娛樂場sex888sex520免費影片sex999免費影片情色貼圖情色視訊sexaaa片免費看短片aa影片下載城aaaaa片俱樂部影片小魔女免費影片台灣論壇免費影片免費影片 - aa的滿18歲影片線上免費a片觀看sex520免費影片85cc免費影片免費 a 片免費A片aa影片下載城ut聊天室-視訊日本免費視訊aaaaa片俱樂部aaaa 片俱樂部aa的滿18歲影片aa免費看aaaa片免費看影片aaa片免費看短片jp成人5278論壇 sex888影片分享區情色偷拍免費A片sex520免費影片後宮0204movie免費影片av俱樂部aaaa彩虹頻道免費影片免費卡通影片線上觀看85cc免費影片線上觀賞免費a片卡通sex888影片分享區aaa的滿18歲卡通影片

12:42 PM, April 29, 2009  
Blogger 1314 said...

視訊做愛視訊美女無碼A片情色影劇kyo成人動漫tt1069同志交友網ut同志交友網微風成人論壇6k聊天室日本 avdvd 介紹免費觀賞UT視訊美女交友..........................

10:09 PM, May 19, 2009  
Blogger 1122 said...

可愛圖片百分百成人圖片養眼圖片383視訊影音城成人影城成人影城aa-dvdaa-dvdlove 免費視訊美女影音觀賞love 免費視訊美女影音觀賞tvnet0204 我愛你視訊美女拳tvnet0204 我愛你視訊美女拳5 分鐘護半身視訊美女視訊交友愛戀之5 分鐘護半身視訊美女99 視訊美女主播 500 點99 視訊美女主播 500 點msn 視訊美女msn 視訊美女888 視訊美女聊天室888 視訊美女聊天室視訊美女 live0204視訊美女 live0204173liveshow 視訊美女

10:08 PM, June 07, 2009  

Post a Comment

<< Home