This person clearly is sexist and insensitive. He doesnt understand that this creates an environment of fear and rape for women. Or something. I dont know, im not very good speaking like a liberal.
To be honest, Helen, I am all about double standards. My problem is when they are a given at the same time they are denied. Requiring equality AND traditional notions, at the same time, leads to bad things. Can't have it both ways, and since you can't fix it (as the t-shirt as one example points out)... there is only one real option. Whether it is a decision by the people and politicians, or we wait until our nation collapses, it has to happen. Reality is patient, suspend belief at your own peril. (Much like throwing a rock straight up, somehow, and watching for it (without moving from the throwing position).) *bonk*
@Dr. Alistair, It reflects double standard in so far as humor that similarly targets women would not even be thought of, let alone tolerated. It is somewhat like how liberal media has a hard time thinking up humor targeting Obama.
A gentle poke at the preferential treatment pretty women get.
It is a double standard guys impose on themselves. Only a dumb/needy guy would actually do that, thinking he might ingratiate himself with the woman and "Get Lucky".
Am I meant to see this as oppression of men? I'm not sure how. What it's saying to me is:
-people who have the power to give the free drinks want to see women's breasts rather than men's (ie, they're straight men. Men wanting to see boobs doesn't seem to be oppression of men, unless the only way to liberate men is for all men to be gay)
-women's breasts are taboo and exciting because the law restricts whether we can show them in public, but places no such restriction on men. That's oppression of female freedom, not male freedom.
So yeah, men miss out on the free drinks because they can take their shirts off anytime they want and apparently a straight guy's running the bar. I'd trade that for a straight woman be running the bar so I can get eyecandy when the men want free drinks, and permission to take off my shirt in my own front lawn if I feel like it. Any day of the freakin' week.
Have to admit, if I were the bar owner, I'd be doing the opposite. But, then, I'm a straight female. Straight males have different interests. A gay male might go my way...a lesbian would probably not.
As a male I don't see what the problem is. I'm not buying a drink for a man without a shirt but I'll guarantee you if a female walks into the bar without a shirt she would drink all night for free. You can change the rules in your utopian dream land but you can't change God's creation. This is why the rules were made in the first place.
Mike H, I see that you've reiterated what the shirt said. I'm just not sure why you've addressed that comment to me. Would you mind clarifying? Is there any relationship between your post and mine?
"Have to admit, if I were the bar owner, I'd be doing the opposite. But, then, I'm a straight female. Straight males have different interests. A gay male might go my way...a lesbian would probably not." If you were the bar owner, you would probably go with what makes you more money. If you think you can get women to buy a ton of drinks cause guys don't wear shirts, knock yourself out.
Glittermama--I think Mike H was responding to this that you wrote: "...men miss out on the free drinks because they can take their shirts off anytime they want..."
Yes, they can, but then they can't come into the bar. They don't just miss out on free drinks; they don't even get to pay for their own.
IOW 'no shirt' for men means 'insufficient ability to be economically productive' and for women it means 'ok, we'll give you a shot at being biologically productive, which ultimately has a different set of values than being economically productive'
Bad T-shirt: no address for the bar in question. How are women to know where to get their free drinks? A clear example of women being oppressed and having vital information being held back by the patriarchy.
"I'm not buying a drink for a man without a shirt but I'll guarantee you if a female walks into the bar without a shirt she would drink all night for free."
--
Then you'd be kind of stupid (if you are doing that because you think she might want to have sex with you). Women get free drinks from the chumps then go home with the men with enough self-esteem not to buy them anything.
Yeah, that makes sense with the wording. The thing is, I guess, that I've never been in a bar where a woman can walk in off the street without her shirt, either. Has anyone else? I'd be very surprised to hear someone say yes, considering that a woman isn't allowed to be on the street in the first place with her breasts exposed.
They say comedy is the protest of the powerless, the only way they have of safely shaking their fists at injustices they cannot change. I've tried to shake my fist at it, too, and it does no good. The double standard is never going to change. I give up.
The Caribbean T-shirt is making light of what is, obviously, an absurd double standard. More common is the "Ladies' Night" phenomenon, which ends up being sexist to both genders.
And one can have a sense of humor and still not lose one's mind completely, you know.
ladies night? when i was in my twenties i played in a band that did a gig for few weeks at a strip bar on ladies night...and boy did i get an education regarding women.
those women were openly having sex with the men in the bar. teens, mothers and grandmothers lining up for their turn to blow the dancers.
if we, as men, tried to engage the dancers at a "gentlemen's" club we'd get bounced. hard.
speaking of double standards.
since those few weeks i've had a decidedly different attitude toward women and their supposed higher level of morals.
and by the way, our engagement at the club ended when our bass player was assaulted by three women in the parking lot at knife point.
when we asked him about the incedent later and whether he had sex with the women he said, well um, yeah.
my though was, how do you perform under such duress?
he was held at knifepoint and forced to have sex with them.
we laughed about it then, but it certainly is a serious issue, when women give themselves the permission to behave that way because of the environment we were all in together earlier that evening.
This person clearly is sexist and insensitive. He doesnt understand that this creates an environment of fear and rape for women. Or something. I dont know, im not very good speaking like a liberal.
ReplyDeleteIn this one case,I like it.
ReplyDeleteDr Helen, I dont think you understand what the phrase "double standard" actually means
ReplyDeletei think the t-shirt is a joke, and certainly doesn't reflect any double standard that i'm aware of in our culture.
ReplyDeleteone of the double standards i see often is the way more attractive people of either sex are treated by others.
attractive people use facebook etc.
unattractive people use second life.
and more to the point, women get preferential treatment in our society across the board.
vive la double standard!
ReplyDeleteTo be honest, Helen, I am all about double standards. My problem is when they are a given at the same time they are denied. Requiring equality AND traditional notions, at the same time, leads to bad things. Can't have it both ways, and since you can't fix it (as the t-shirt as one example points out)... there is only one real option. Whether it is a decision by the people and politicians, or we wait until our nation collapses, it has to happen. Reality is patient, suspend belief at your own peril. (Much like throwing a rock straight up, somehow, and watching for it (without moving from the throwing position).) *bonk*
ReplyDelete@Dr. Alistair, It reflects double standard in so far as humor that similarly targets women would not even be thought of, let alone tolerated. It is somewhat like how liberal media has a hard time thinking up humor targeting Obama.
ReplyDeleteI find it to be funny and true.
ReplyDeleteA gentle poke at the preferential treatment pretty women get.
It is a double standard guys impose on themselves. Only a dumb/needy guy would actually do that, thinking he might ingratiate himself with the woman and "Get Lucky".
As Erin Brockovich sagely put it, "They're called boobs, Ed."
ReplyDeleteAm I meant to see this as oppression of men? I'm not sure how. What it's saying to me is:
ReplyDelete-people who have the power to give the free drinks want to see women's breasts rather than men's (ie, they're straight men. Men wanting to see boobs doesn't seem to be oppression of men, unless the only way to liberate men is for all men to be gay)
-women's breasts are taboo and exciting because the law restricts whether we can show them in public, but places no such restriction on men. That's oppression of female freedom, not male freedom.
So yeah, men miss out on the free drinks because they can take their shirts off anytime they want and apparently a straight guy's running the bar. I'd trade that for a straight woman be running the bar so I can get eyecandy when the men want free drinks, and permission to take off my shirt in my own front lawn if I feel like it. Any day of the freakin' week.
It's not a double standard, it's a boob standard...and there are two of them.
ReplyDeleteAh, the beauty of the free market. More boobs=more paying customers[net]=more drinks sold=increased revenue. Pretty simple, actually.
ReplyDeleteHave to admit, if I were the bar owner, I'd be doing the opposite. But, then, I'm a straight female. Straight males have different interests. A gay male might go my way...a lesbian would probably not.
ReplyDeleteEither way, it's a funny t-shirt. :-)
Glittermama, the first line says 'no shirt, don't come in.'
ReplyDeleteThe second says come in and be prepared to stay until you can no longer make decisions because of the alcohol level.
Is the writer of this column actually a man?
ReplyDeleteBy "double standard", you mean the left one and the right one, don't you?
ReplyDeleteAs a male I don't see what the problem is. I'm not buying a drink for a man without a shirt but I'll guarantee you if a female walks into the bar without a shirt she would drink all night for free. You can change the rules in your utopian dream land but you can't change God's creation. This is why the rules were made in the first place.
ReplyDeleteReading through these comments reminds me of an old joke:
ReplyDeleteQ: How many feminists does it take to screw in a lightbulb?
A: That's not funny!
let's see some fellows put their joy sticks on the table, for all of us girls to judge & ogle - the guy with the best stick gets the drinks!
ReplyDeletegirls picture boys naked too - you are also being judged by your anatomy .... honey, size does matter, and what you do with it.
i'd have a bar where men must walk naked, not fart, not scratch their balls, must groom all hair & must be clean. shoes optional.
Mike H, I see that you've reiterated what the shirt said. I'm just not sure why you've addressed that comment to me. Would you mind clarifying? Is there any relationship between your post and mine?
ReplyDelete"Have to admit, if I were the bar owner, I'd be doing the opposite. But, then, I'm a straight female. Straight males have different interests. A gay male might go my way...a lesbian would probably not."
ReplyDeleteIf you were the bar owner, you would probably go with what makes you more money. If you think you can get women to buy a ton of drinks cause guys don't wear shirts, knock yourself out.
Glittermama--I think Mike H was responding to this that you wrote: "...men miss out on the free drinks because they can take their shirts off anytime they want..."
ReplyDeleteYes, they can, but then they can't come into the bar. They don't just miss out on free drinks; they don't even get to pay for their own.
Take 2:
ReplyDeleteFor men: 'No money, no service'
For women: 'No money, service depending on .....'
IOW 'no shirt' for men means 'insufficient ability to be economically productive' and for women it means 'ok, we'll give you a shot at being biologically productive, which ultimately has a different set of values than being economically productive'
Make mine a double.
ReplyDeleteBad T-shirt: no address for the bar in question. How are women to know where to get their free drinks? A clear example of women being oppressed and having vital information being held back by the patriarchy.
ReplyDeleteLove you, Dr. Helen, but let's try to avoid the humorlessness that characterizes the feminazis.
ReplyDeletefreedom4u:
ReplyDelete"I'm not buying a drink for a man without a shirt but I'll guarantee you if a female walks into the bar without a shirt she would drink all night for free."
--
Then you'd be kind of stupid (if you are doing that because you think she might want to have sex with you). Women get free drinks from the chumps then go home with the men with enough self-esteem not to buy them anything.
Oh Boy! I get to see a girl's tits and all I have to do is buy her drinks all night.
ReplyDeleteMichael David Martin, that is a clarification of what I said. Thanks.
ReplyDeleteAh, gotcha, Michael! Thanks!
ReplyDeleteYeah, that makes sense with the wording. The thing is, I guess, that I've never been in a bar where a woman can walk in off the street without her shirt, either. Has anyone else? I'd be very surprised to hear someone say yes, considering that a woman isn't allowed to be on the street in the first place with her breasts exposed.
Comment Monster,
ReplyDeleteOh, I think the t-shirt is funny but it's also truthful and a metaphor for the basic privileges of women over men in many instances.
I see Glittermama has never been to Key West, Florida.
ReplyDeleteI still like that sign on a restaurant door:
ReplyDeleteShirt and Shoes Required
Bra and Panties Optional
Glenn is so lucky--beautiful, smart, and funny. Double Standard. Make mine a double, hold the silicone or saline.
ReplyDeleteAuntie Mame's Finest - so, you would have a gay bar?
ReplyDeleteKim du Toit,
ReplyDeleteYou should go visit anti-misandry sites like The Spearhead or Dalrock's (both of which you can find via Googling).
There is an impressive array of sophisticated and articulate thinkers on the subject of gender relations, misandry, and sexual psychology.
Join us.
kmg,
ReplyDeleteI was doing this stuff before the guys at Spearhead and Dalrock learned how to type.
Ask anyone.
Kinda reminds me of a joke I heard recently: Homophobia is the fear that gay men will treat straight men the way straight men treat women.
ReplyDelete"Homophobia is the fear that gay men will treat straight men the way straight men treat women."
ReplyDelete--
You mean: Acting subservient to them and buying them lots of stuff and letting them sit on their fat asses while working to a heart attack?
And paying over an alimony check every month for no other reason than she is incompetent in life?
________
Frankly, a gay guy can send me a check every month and otherwise have no contact with me.
I have no fear of that. Really.
"Ask anyone."
ReplyDelete--
OK. I'll get right on it.
They say comedy is the protest of the powerless, the only way they have of safely shaking their fists at injustices they cannot change. I've tried to shake my fist at it, too, and it does no good. The double standard is never going to change. I give up.
ReplyDeleteThe Caribbean T-shirt is making light of what is, obviously, an absurd double standard. More common is the "Ladies' Night" phenomenon, which ends up being sexist to both genders.
ReplyDeleteAnd one can have a sense of humor and still not lose one's mind completely, you know.
ladies night? when i was in my twenties i played in a band that did a gig for few weeks at a strip bar on ladies night...and boy did i get an education regarding women.
ReplyDeletethose women were openly having sex with the men in the bar. teens, mothers and grandmothers lining up for their turn to blow the dancers.
if we, as men, tried to engage the dancers at a "gentlemen's" club we'd get bounced. hard.
speaking of double standards.
since those few weeks i've had a decidedly different attitude toward women and their supposed higher level of morals.
and by the way, our engagement at the club ended when our bass player was assaulted by three women in the parking lot at knife point.
when we asked him about the incedent later and whether he had sex with the women he said, well um, yeah.
my though was, how do you perform under such duress?
What do you mean: he had sex with them? Before the knifepoint? If it was during, he is a victim of rape.
ReplyDeletehe was held at knifepoint and forced to have sex with them.
ReplyDeletewe laughed about it then, but it certainly is a serious issue, when women give themselves the permission to behave that way because of the environment we were all in together earlier that evening.