Commentary on popular culture and society, from a (mostly) psychological perspective
posted by Helen Smith at 8:50 AM
Sorry to be negative, but ...What's amusing is that it is obvious what Helen does all day if she is putting forth book reports one after the other and diddling around with her Pajamas stuff. Is she doing honest physical labor or even earning her keep? I think she is living off a man. Even women can be held to this "work" standard, Helen. Why are you so quick to defend "the rich" when you will never get there on your own?This isn't meant as a gratuitous insult, it is meant as an honest question after watching her actions for quite a while.
I personally think that if you put some Ummph into it and make a good go of it, you will usually be in a lot better shape financially than if you don't. I also think that luck has a lot better chance of arising if you are persisting and putting effort into a project.But if anyone thinks that all of "the rich" got that way through hard work or "working smarter" or genius, and that there is no corruption, nepotism, undiscovered crime, exploitation, luck or all the rest, you are absolutely naive. Absolutely. And let's not shut down the SEC or white collar crime investigations just yet.
But if anyone thinks that all of "the rich" got that way through hard work or "working smarter" or genius, and that there is no corruption, nepotism, undiscovered crime, exploitation, luck or all the rest, you are absolutely naive.That's a strawman argument. Show me who is claiming what you stated. There are some of the rich who inherited money just as there some who got theirs through nepotism or criminal activity. However, most studies indicate those are not the majority of the rich. Most of them got wealthy through their own businesses and living below their means, what "The Millionare Next Door" referred to as a "low maintenance lifestyle."
Larry J:It's not a strawman - it's part of the Wall Street protest - for instance against bankers who ran their banks into bankruptcy taking unreasonable risks out of greed, then get bailed out by the government, then get huge bonuses because they take unreasonable risks out of greed in the next cycle.Calling people who are pointing this out - and it's not right - "cockroaches" makes my statements applicable.Hypocrisy: Why are people who are not rich themselves here (and I get a good feel from statements on this board, like some guy who thinks that 80,000 CANADIAN is some super amount) putting themselves on the side of "the rich". Wait till you get there to pontificate. You may find it's not all that you think.
By the way, Larry J, most of the people writing those books don't tell you how THEY got rich. They got rich from the books, not from doing what they said in the book. Suzie Orman is another one. She got rich from putting her ugly mug on TV and putting down men (which got her a hefty female following). She has oatmeal for brains if you look at some of the macro-economic stuff she says.
How to become a millionaire if you are a woman:Get married to some middle-class guy who socks money away in a 401k and everywhere else he can. Someone with a respectable middle-class profession who isn't going to be unemployed.Then sit back and watch Dr. Phil and Judge Judy, eat your non-fat yoghurt cups and go to your yoga class. Develop a list of work and repairs for your husband to do at home. Do lunch. Take tennis lessons (but don't screw the tennis instructor, giggle!). Get your nails done. Read lots of books. Write stuff on a blog.And then after 40 years, you will be a millionaire. What they didn't tell you is: A million isn't all that much today, and in 40 years it is not going to be anything at all.
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But if anyone thinks that all of "the rich" got that way through hard work or "working smarter" or genius, and that there is no corruption, nepotism, undiscovered crime, exploitation, luck or all the rest, you are absolutely naive.Funny, virtually every rich person, defined as a millionaire plus, I know go there that way, or because their parent did. Unlike the whiny cry babies that can't stand the fact that someone who earns a bunch of money during their lifetime should be able to pass it on to their kids if they wish, I have no problem with this.I hope to be able to pass enough on to my kids to improve their lives. Virtually all of us with we were rich. Many of those who can't figure out how to get there hate those who do out of their own personal greed and jealousy. "If I can't have it, neither should you" is their attitude.I have some sympathy with the protesters. There is a huge amount of cronyism and corruption between business and government. Look at GE, Goldman Sachs, the raid on Gibson guitars and many other recents (and past actions) by the federal government.Until these people are protesting in equal numbers in front of the White House and Capital Building, they're either tools or frauds.
>>>>>Unlike the whiny cry babies that can't stand the fact that someone who earns a bunch of money during their lifetime should be able to pass it on to their kids if they wish, I have no problem with this.<<<<<I don't really know people who begrudge someone passing on their money, although they exist.What I see is a more subtle distinction: People want to have the feeling that they are appreciated for their efforts and ideas and inventions and work.That isn't the case at all in America today, because the people with effort and brilliant ideas and all the rest are not the ones who are directly envied - it is simply the people with money. Now, granted, those two groups overlap a lot.But take some skanky woman who never worked but got 30 million out of her ex-husband. She's at a party along with an engineer who is trying to build up a company based on an idea, but he is not yet rich. Most of America is going to jockey to talk to the skank. That's really how it works, and I grew up in a neighborhood like that.Americans on the whole take incredible amounts of shit from anyone who is "rich". They could care less how they got that way. It's kind of sickening.If you inherit your money or whatever: Enjoy it!I personally get more enjoyment out of producing something. There's only so much you can eat before you are fat. There's only so many supplicants you can boss around until you are tired of it.But there should be a distinction in people's minds between innovators and producers ... and people who got money in whatever way. I think America used to be more like the former outlook. Now - in its decay - it's just stupid people worshiping the rich (which is just a form of envy).
@EnterNameHere: You are such a pathetic fucking troll.I was here first. I am the official Dr. Helen troll. I assumed the duties to piss off most of the people on this site, including its owner.Now fuck off, you worthless sack of excrement pretending to be bipedal. There is nothing I loathe more than some rank upstart who thinks they can just waltz into a web site and blast their personality all over the place like they have a clue what they're doing.Been there. Done that.
Troll fight!! Troll fight!! LOL!Neither one of you guys piss me off.I don't really know people who begrudge someone passing on their money, although they exist.I'll use my parents and siblings as examples. When Bill Haslam, now governor of Tennessee, was running for mayor of Knoxville, my parents and some siblings campaigned against him. Just the usual bumper stickers and that kind of stuff. Haslam's father had started Pilot Oil and benefited from the education and experience that comes with having a rich businessman as parent.During a visit home, I happened to ask my mother and sister (at the same time) why they opposed Haslam. In unison, as if rehearsed, they said, "Because he's rich!"My mother's an intelligent woman, M.S. degree in Asian Studies and Art History, fluent in Mandarin Chinese. But, she's never considered voting anything except Democratic. Her intelligence is not open to anything else and always looks for justification of voting Democratic.She, nor most others in my family, can't understand that to the typical inner city black, rural poor and most lower middle class person, she's rich, my sisters are rich, that they are preaching hate against themselves.Oh, believe me, despite all their railing against the greedy rich, I've witnessed little generosity on their part compared to other families I'm familiar with including many of lesser means.
This whole argument, both this one and the protesters' is moot unless "rich" is defined and agreed upon. Having lived in California, Texas, and Utah, I can accurately report that having a million dollars is:1. Basically the same as being poor2. Super rich3. Middle classI have a bad feeling that the wall street occupiers have all individually defined "rich" as "makes more money that I do at my Starbucks job," which is less than useful.
"It's not a strawman - it's part of the Wall Street protest"Most rich people aren't bankers, nor are most bankers rich. Most rich people aren't associated with Wall Street and most people working on Wall Street aren't rich. Thus, you're argument is a straw man. "bankers who ran their banks into bankruptcy taking unreasonable risks out of greed"Of course this is a false statement. Greed is a human constant. Bankers didn't suddenly get more greedy in the last 20 years. The threat of bankruptcy and a bank run keep bankers honest. The removal of that threat by government intervention using the FDIC and Fannie and Freddie are the culprit. The bankers bet that the government would transfer money from taxpayers to them if they got into trouble by taking on excessive risk, risk that was implicitly backed by the government through the agencies mentioned above. Well surprise, surprise the bet paid off and politicians were only too happy to dip into taxpayer pockets and handed that money over to people who would provide kickbacks, particularly in the way of campaign contributions. Who do you think financed Obama's 2008 election campaign? Do you really think it's a coincidence that many of Obama's top advisors are associated with Goldman Sachs and that Goldmans Sachs received billions in bailout money?"Why are people who are not rich themselves here ... putting themselves on the side of "the rich""So being against the parasites in the Occupy Wall Street crowd is to be on the side of the rich? Go take another look at those properly named cockroaches. They aren't mad that the government gave out bailouts. They're mad that they didn't get a piece of the bailout pie. Their list demands free this and free that, such as free education and free medical.Regards,Ken
I just want to say that the "human microphone" thing creeps me out, that is all.
have all individually defined "rich" as "makes more money that I do at my Starbucks job,"Exactly. That was my point in my previous post and the point I try to make my family members. If you drive the protesters through the neighborhoods my family members live in, I guarantee the protester types are going to proclaim everyone in those neighbborhoods rich to some degree or another, although the neighborhoods are all middle class and upper middle class.
anger and resentment seems to drive the left's whole position.these people aren't demonstrators so much as vandals, and should be treated as such.
Their sentiment seems to be: "I made bad choice in my life, so you have a responsibility to take care of me."No, I don't."Corporations are dictating to the government, so we need more government."You can't possibly be that stupid.
@Zorro - Well put. Although some regard you as the voice of reason, rather than a troll. Also, multiple comments without replies = crazy person. Thus, ignore.
"Although some regard you as the voice of reason..."I've been called many things in my day, but this one has Rehab written all over it.
Looks like "EnterNameHere" scattered like a cockroach. I think the head troll may have reminded him that persistent trolling resembles work.
The one thing these stupid protestors don't get is the fact for every one of the rich they decry there are hundreds or thousands of people who take a great risk and failed. We need a country where there is a great reward to be had for taking a great risk. If we lose people taking great risks we will cease to be as great of a nation.
As a professor in a school of business I know a lot of rich folks (particularly our board members). They all work fifty and sixty and seventy hours a week. I think my dean (a self-made millionaire) is at work every waking moment. Even the "retired" board members put in full workdays, even if it's just advising others on how to be successful or giving their wealth away through philanthropy. They are living evidence that in this land of opportunity you can indeed translate your intelligence and skills and hard work into wealth. I admire them, and I emulate them.
The hypocrisy of the protesters is just too funny; they oppose bailouts for bankers, but support bailouts for themselves. Rather than bitch and moan about this, why not go to a trade school and become a machinist or welder? I suspect that it's because they aren't smart enough (not being sarcastic.)Note I didn't suggest they become computer programmers; it's hard enough for people with talent.
Southern Man writes: "As a professor in a school of business I know a lot of rich folks (particularly our board members). They all work fifty and sixty and seventy hours a week. I think my dean (a self-made millionaire) is at work every waking moment. Even the "retired" board members put in full workdays, even if it's just advising others on how to be successful or giving their wealth away through philanthropy. They are living evidence that in this land of opportunity you can indeed translate your intelligence and skills and hard work into wealth. I admire them, and I emulate them."_________________I will assume that you don't personally follow them or have a private investigator follow them.I will further assume (from life experience) that high-ego people say high-ego things.So how do you exactly know what all of these people really do?I will further assume that you have an agenda and want to make a point. I get it; I want to make points too.Do you really know what these people do? Would you vouch for one of them if they were accused of a crime? If yes, to what extent? Would you give your own life to vouch for them?Huh.
Otherwise, Doctor Helen is deleting posts here. Everything will be slanted towards her perspective when she does that. A fair conversation it is not.
@SelfAbsorbedAlphaMale: Dr Helen does not delete posts unless the drunk poster writes something that would make the Secret Service sit up and take notice.Go screw.
"Real Tough Alpha Male,"You know what you wrote and why you were writing it. You were trying to tag posters incorrectly here as being racists. I deleted your comment. I won't allow you to slander posters here like that.
Holy shit! There's actually an Unknown on the payroll??!!!I always thought that was some editorial blogging error.
---You were trying to tag posters incorrectly here as being racists.---No, I was trying to present a lazy rich woman who didn't even know that she was lazy herself. It was just in the context of her watching the slaves work.And that's what got to you I think. But good tactic: Delete the post and then accuse the poster of something he never intended.
By the way, my name is also a parody of some people here. I'm sure I'll be accused of threatening people because of that. The tactics are just transparent.
Please let me hand you a fresh roll of tin foil, you sanctimonious asshat cunt.
I still love my favorite old bumper sticker.I fight poverty, I work.
ZorroPrimo,"Holy shit! There's actually an Unknown on the payroll??!!! "It's a long story with blogger but until I can figure out how to change it, I will be known here as Unknown when I comment.Helen
"No, I was trying to present a lazy rich woman who didn't even know that she was lazy herself."I love that! So you are Helen's neighbor? Her coworker? You assert and know this how?Envy is really ugly.Trey
"A fair conversation it is not."Ah, I have figured out who you are. Leave us alone Yoda!!!!!!!!!Trey
Here's what is interesting (for what it's worth, I've had a job myself since college 20 years ago):I see incredible anger at Wall Street protesters because they supposedly don't have a job. Look above for examples.But I think what they are saying is that they HAVE a job, but a combination of income taxes and other government policies on the "poor" is unfair when you consider that bankers who drove their banks into the ground are revived with government money. And then they get multi-million dollar bonuses the next year. Here's what I find intersting:People here above are really hepped up on insulting anyone (any man - see below) who doesn't have a job.But no one - and I mean no one - dares to venture into the territory of a woman leeching off a man.Same thing - lazy, bossy person.Same moral take on it - lots of men are ordered by courts to pay lots and lots and lots and lots of money to these pigs (see Paul McCartney).Left-wing, right-wing, whatever-wing. It's really funny. Women who leech off men, court-ordered or not, prostitution-based or not, are above reproach.A woman who works 60 hours a week with two minimum-wage jobs - and they are a bulk of the protesters - is worthy of elbowing and back-slapping and all the rest among the people on this Web site.Get a Job, stupid bitch. Hee Haw.But the joke is that she has two jobs and is protesting against treatment of her; some of the women yelling "get a job" are women leeching off men who will never understand it.Moment of enlightenment: "Get a job" also means YOU, you stupid sit-at-home.
Not that anyone here cares - it's mostly "Defenders of Helen" plus her sock puppets - but my respect for her has fallen to zero.I assume that she will say that she took psychology because it is a "caring profession". No one admits that they just can't cut physics or engineering or law or medicine. Good, she took the easy way out because she is "caring".Except for the fact that she has a mean-streak a mile wide.If she laughs at the labeling of a large group of people "cockroaches", and she is basically lower on the work scale than these "cockroaches" (meaning that she is a parasite off a man), then she is a hypocrite. Worse, she shouldn't be giving advice about something she knows very little about - namely "work".
"Not that anyone here cares - it's mostly "Defenders of Helen" plus her sock puppets - but my respect for her has fallen to zero."I'm spitballing here, but I'll wager you never had any respect to begin with. Now run along and key the next 800-series Beemer you come across and feel the love.ZorroPrimoSecretaryBrotherhood of "Defenders of Helen" Sockpuppets, Union #846
I used to drive a BMW myself.You think that having empathy for people working hard but not cutting it, and disgust for bankers who SHOULD HAVE HAD THEIR JOBS ELIMINATED, equates to not recognizing property rights and a willingness to be a criminal?Frankly, if you are a capitalist, you should think that if you drive a company or bank into the ground you suffer the consequences. You don't get tons of money from the government to carry on, and you don't get a multi-million-dollar bonus.
All I will add to this little tiff, VMM, is that you know nothing about that of which you speak. You are mistaken.
Could be, br549. It has happened before.But I get a real sense of "Let Them Eat Cake" here, whether I'm right or wrong about a few details.
What happened before? You were thrown out of a bakery?A pack of stupid hippies are so distraught over the criminal incompetence of the teenager they elected to be their Messiah, so to mask the stench of his paralytic-drunk performance they stage Wall Street Woodstock?Ben & Jerry applaud. The rest of us await you to grow up, take a bath, move out of your Mom's house and wipe your own ass.
real tough alpha male....hmmmm,syntactically familiar stuff.and the same pent-up aggression.don't have any house pets i hope....
"but my respect for her has fallen to zero."Reciprocity brings balance. I am ppleased that the two of you hold each other in equal esteem. Not sure she ever respected you though. But at least things are balanced now!Trey
Someone with 2 jobs isn't going to have enought time to smoke dope at the OWS temper tantrum...er 'protest'.Fact is, the anti-war movement drew bigger crowds and they were STILL the minority.And yes, we think that people who drive businesses into the ground shouldn't be rewarded, which is what kicked off the Tea Party long before the spoilt brat coalition decided that they were upset they didn't get a cut of the easy money tax dollar give-away action. But, you were too busy calling us racists in order to dismiss us and allow Obama and the Dems to reward their campaign donors and cronys with boatloads of tax dollars and call it '"stimulous" and "Obamacare". So, fuck off, with your coming in here and whining about being righteously mocked. You voted for that clown. Suck it up.
A lot of the "protesters" look like Jerry Garcia or Sid Vicious. Neither type you would expect to find in an office building working. None you would want to hire to deal with customers were you a business owner. I did like Jerry Garcia's guitar playing, however. Oh, and by the way - the Grateful Dead were a corporation.And as Sgt. Ted has explained, those of us who fight poverty by working don't have time to lay around on sidewalks.
even if i didn't work, the last thing i would want to do would be to provoke water cannons.by the way, it's getting cold here as it does every october in canada..it's a bad time to get doused in cold water and penned in a cage.
SGT Ted writes:==Someone with 2 jobs isn't going to have enought time to smoke dope at the OWS temper tantrum...er 'protest'.==I absolutely agree with that. I watched the U-Tube videos from the people who had jobs and were still getting drilled.==So, fuck off, with your coming in here and whining about being righteously mocked. You voted for that clown. Suck it up.==Didn't vote for Obama, if that's what you mean.I voted straight Republican for 20 years, then I quit voting at all. I'm an old fuck.But I can still spot an "Internet Warrior". You don't do yourself a service with that crap. You sound stupid and unable to discuss a political issue.
@vmm: "I'm an old fuck."No. You're a dumb fuck. And you didn't vote Repub for 20 years. And you never drove a Beemer. And you don't have a loving wife, or a German shepherd, either.You're just a transparent, stupid, filthy hippy-lover.Go eat your Ben & Jerry's, play the Grateful Dead and blow a joint.Brain-dead scumbag.
ZorroPrimo:If I was a staunch left-winger, I would have given some indication of a transformation for whatever reason.I still think that if you try harder, you will get more out of life.But I no longer think that life is fair or perfect. And that's OK.I don't quite get the utter hostility, but you have to deal with that yourself.
Something I've noticed:I don't dare discuss this issue - I see comments like the following:"So, fuck off, with your coming in here and whining about being righteously mocked.""You're just a transparent, stupid, filthy hippy-lover.""Brain-dead scumbag."---Among other comments.My point of view:I have empathy for people who are trying as hard as they can, but they are not cutting it in life.I have empathy for the point of view that bankers who run their banks into the ground with extremely risky transactions should not be rewarded with revival money from US taxpayers.I have empathy for people who WORK vis-a-vis people who don't work, but who have rich lifestyles. Like bossy housewives. I'll shut up if they shut up on instructions about how to lead your life. I don't personally want to name my biggest accomplishment as "getting lots of stuff off a man, while I pretend to have a career".
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