Tuesday, January 05, 2010

"The Western World has quietly become a civilization that undervalues men and overvalues women"

A number of you have written (and commented) to tell me about an excellent post called "The Misandry Bubble" by the Futurist blog which you can find here. The post is long but has a very good take on why American society is on the decline:

Why does it seem that American society is in decline, that fairness and decorum are receding, that that socialism and tyranny are becoming malignant despite the majority of the public being averse to such philosophies, yet the true root cause seems elusive? What if everything from unsustainable health care and social security costs, to stagnant home prices and wage stagnation, to crumbling infrastructure and metastasizing socialism, to the utter decimation of major US cities like Detroit, Cleveland, and Pittsburgh, could all be traced to a common origin that is extremely pervasive yet is all but absent from the national dialog, indeed from the dialog of the entire Western world? ....

Executive Summary : The Western World has quietly become a civilization that undervalues men and overvalues women, where the state forcibly transfers resources from men to women creating various perverse incentives for otherwise good women to conduct great evil against men and children, and where male nature is vilified but female nature is celebrated. This is unfair to both genders, and is a recipe for a rapid civilizational decline and displacement, the costs of which will ultimately be borne by a subsequent generation of innocent women, rather than men, as soon as 2020.


I just read the whole thing. I suggest you do too. There are many gems of wisdom in this essay.

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68 Comments:

Blogger SWWBO said...

Wow, I apparently do not see things the way you do.

I think it is a big pile of C***.

I started fact checking stats, and the first one I checked was off by 20 percentage points. I also looked at the links, and they just did not appear to me to be reliable references.

Plus, the followers of the "Futurist" are about as petty as they can be.

Of course, you also seem to think that polyamory is OK, so obviously, your morals are quite different from mine and most people I know.

2:15 PM, January 05, 2010  
Blogger Francis W. Porretto said...

Not merely American society but all of Western civilization is declining -- because it's become unacceptable to be a man, with a full complement of the manly virtues.

Government, the media, and assorted roving neo-Grundies have essentially criminalized manhood as every generation before the Baby Boom understood and honored it.

Kipling would have harsh words for us. Indeed, he told us what to expect next. The conclusion is swiftly approaching.

3:01 PM, January 05, 2010  
Blogger fred said...

On behalf of all the guys I know who have served recently and serve now in our military, we value you still, no matter what this nonsense says...you are men. You are heroes.You serve and have served your nation. Bless you.

3:14 PM, January 05, 2010  
Blogger SWWBO said...

Perhaps this is a function of what part of the country you live in. Here, a man's man is the man women want to marry. I don't see what Francis or Dr. Helen sees (if indeed, Dr. Helen agrees with the premise).
Now, if you were to say that White Men are being treated badly, at least so far as Affirmative Action goes(which has really pretty much gone the way of the Dodo bird except in the those bastions of knowledge, the Ivy League schools.

But out here, I don't know one woman who wants to be anywhere hear a metrosexual, unmanly man.

The downfall of Western Civilization will more likely come from people who are just too lazy to be responsible for themselves and think they are owed a living.

3:16 PM, January 05, 2010  
Blogger kmg said...

I checked the blog of this SWWBO creature. SWWBO stands for :

"She Who Will Be Obeyed"

This sort of proves the main article's point, ya think?

What is funny is that other than calling all dissenters 'misogynists' or 'losers', they really have no other manner in which to discuss anything.

3:49 PM, January 05, 2010  
Blogger SWWBO said...

As to the name of my blog, She Who Will Be Obeyed - that is in reference to an old British TV Show, Rumple of the Bailey - he referred to his wife as She Who Must Be Obeyed. I changed it slightly so it would not appear that I was completely plagiarizing the term.

I named it that because it was funny.

These "followers" of "The Futurist" seem to think it means I'm a feminist, which I am not, other than that women should be equal to men, not less than equal, not more than equal, just equal.

I created my blog in 2003, and I have always been known as a conservative blogger. Up until I posted on my blog how I think the post that The Futurist has is really off the mark, no one has ever accused me of the things these wonderful commenters of his accuse me of.

I am a wife of a retired military officer. I was in the Army Reserve, myself. As a Behavioral Science Specialist back in the days where there were such people as Specialists.

4:07 PM, January 05, 2010  
Blogger Francis W. Porretto said...

Dear SWWBO:

You misunderstand, dear. It's not impossible to be a man of the traditional American sort; it's been made unacceptable to be so in public, which is where the manly virtues are most desperately needed. Consider the anecdotes related here, and see if you still disagree.

4:28 PM, January 05, 2010  
Blogger Aurelian said...

SWWBO

I can not possibly know which planet you live on but Affirmative Action is alive and well not only in Universities and not just the Ivy's but in government, and larger corporations. Where is the documentation on this? Alive also is the statistical fallacy "the population consists of x% black, x% white and x% hispanic so the government ought to resemble that breakout". Or x% of black men are in jail while composing x% of the population. What led you to make such a statement?

4:31 PM, January 05, 2010  
Blogger Cham said...

the utter decimation of major US cities like Detroit, Cleveland, and Pittsburgh

I beg to differ on the comment about Pittsburgh. Pittsburgh is a hub for medical research and education. Although the steel industry has left, Pittsburgh is very much alive and vibrant.

4:34 PM, January 05, 2010  
Blogger SWWBO said...

Francis, please don't call me dear, you don't know me.

You make some excellent point on your blog. I agree, there is a lot of cruelty seen as being entertainment, at least so far as reality shows (Survivor, etc) where people are encouraged to be just plain evil.

My family does not watch such television.

I do not see the problems in this part of the country where people can do the right thing without being considered brave. My husband does not hesitate to hand someone a cigarette they have just thrown on the ground, suggesting that they had lost it.

I do the same.

I have also come to the rescue of a child who was being pulled by the hair through a grocery store by telling the parent to stop it. That does not make me brave, that makes me right.

I don't think that The Futurist's "Four Sirens" are the cause of incivility. That's where we differ.

I think it is moral relativism which has caused incivility and the Decline of Western Civilization.

There is such a thing as right and wrong. There is such a thing as black and white - not everything is grey.

The refusal of many to believe that there are destructive behaviours that should be reined in is what I think has caused so much cruelty and meanness.

4:46 PM, January 05, 2010  
Blogger JG said...

This comment has been removed by the author.

4:46 PM, January 05, 2010  
Blogger kmg said...

Cham,

Pittsburgh's population is about half of what it was 30 years ago. The real estate prices show that.

The point is, like Atlas Shrugged said, when the top people have no reason to care, disaster ensures.

When men have to reason to care about building strong communities, due to injustices done to them by courts and feminists, much of the US will become like Detroit. Or Pittsburgh (which most of the US would NOT like to be like).

5:16 PM, January 05, 2010  
Blogger kmg said...

SWWBO,

If you don't think the extremely anti-male divorce laws are a cause of serious problems in society, and genuinely un-American injustices, then you have no clue.

A fair-minded woman like Dr. Helen is a rare treasure, who makes a mig difference.

5:24 PM, January 05, 2010  
Blogger kmg said...

New French Law : Yelling at your wife will get you a criminal record, and tagged with a electronic ankle bracelet.

This is about 75% of the way towards slavery, is it not?

7:22 PM, January 05, 2010  
Blogger Chuck Pelto said...

TO: Dr. Helen, et al.
RE: Heh

I read the whole thing when it was mentioned over at the InstaHusband's.

I even commented on it.

However, it's kind of 'funny' that comments were cut off....

....when thinks started getting 'interesting.

Regards,

Chuck(le)
[The Truth will out....]

7:30 PM, January 05, 2010  
Blogger Jack said...

I do not see the problems in this part of the country where people can do the right thing without being considered brave.

You are describing the entire United States, not just one place. Get over it, dear.

10:22 PM, January 05, 2010  
Blogger randian said...

Perhaps this is a function of what part of the country you live in. Here, a man's man is the man women want to marry.

Apparently, the disconnect between the values women publicly espouse and the actual behavior they exhibit has escaped you.

11:02 PM, January 05, 2010  
Blogger Chuck Pelto said...

TO: kmg, et al.
RE: SWWBO

"This sort of proves the main article's point, ya think?" -- kmg

In a word? I'd say that's a big YES.

And it points out the nefarious nature of her ilk. Claiming one thing when, if you look at her actions, they speak MUCH louder than her words here.

Thanks for that tid-bit of vital information.

Regards,

Chuck(le)
[We [women?] have too many high-sounding words, and too few actions that correspond with them. -- Abigail Adams]

5:51 AM, January 06, 2010  
Blogger Trust said...

@randian said...Apparently, the disconnect between the values women publicly espouse and the actual behavior they exhibit has escaped you.
________

You phrased it better than I could. If women, in general, held true to what they say, Tommy Lee would never get a date and Twilight author Stephanie Meyer wouldn't have made much money writing about Edward "I've killed people and I've never wanted to kill anyone more than you but I don't cuz I'm so Chivalrous" Cullen.

8:15 AM, January 06, 2010  
Blogger TMink said...

I think that our culture has grown phobic of male aggression while it has cultivated female aggression. We can think back to previous posts and discussions here about how movies would be accepted if the assaulter and assaulted had their gender switched.

Now I am all for strong women who can and do take care of themselves. My wife and 15 year old are both handy with firearms.

But it is also important for men to be comfortable with appropriate use of aggression. When this energy and power is treated as unhealthy, it will sink into the shadows of sadism and masochism.

Moore and Gillet (sp) have a great book on this from a Jungian perspective called the Warrior Within.

Trey

11:01 AM, January 06, 2010  
Blogger dr.alistair said...

http://www.heretical.com

some of the discussions on the differences between men and women posted on the above site might, and i stress; might, shed some light on where we are today regarding politics and law and the difficulties we are having in even talking about these differences in open forums.

some women do say one thing and do another...as do some men.

11:11 AM, January 06, 2010  
Blogger Kevin M said...

I read the blog article; very interesting.

I suppose if you said to most American women: "I've got some bad news for you. You are nowhere near as important as you think you are," they'd vapor-lock.

I'm not suggesting that women aren't important. Not even that a large number of them are vitally important.

Only this: That the average self-image of the average American woman is PREPOSTEROUSLY INFLATED BEYOND ALL RECOGNITION OF REALITY.

Just that, and nothing more.

1:38 PM, January 06, 2010  
Blogger Chuck Pelto said...

TO: Kevin M, et al.
RE: As Niven & Pournelle Put It....

....in their classic work of civilization gone to Hell....

The feminist movement died one milli-second after the first impact.

Regards,

Chuck(le)
[If men are from Mars and women are from Venus, that would explain those big-ass fights over where to set the thermostat!]

1:54 PM, January 06, 2010  
Blogger TMink said...

Funny thing Chuck, I am re-reading that very book!

Trey

4:36 PM, January 06, 2010  
Blogger Trust said...

@: "The Western World has quietly become a civilization that undervalues men and overvalues women"

__________

One thing I've done recently that has been amusing is sometimes I picture a man singing a song sung by a woman. Putting a man's voice to many female-sang songs often makes them sound arrogant.

"R-E-S-P-E-C-T give it to me give it to me give it to me give it to me"

"You've got to give me everything, then you have have all of me."

"if i'm not the one thing you don't want to lose, if I'm not an arrow through the heart of you, if you dont' get drunk with my kiss, if you think you can do better than this, then we're done."

Popular songs when sang by women, but smack of arrogance if you picture a man singing them.

8:12 PM, January 06, 2010  
Blogger Chuck Pelto said...

TO: TMink
RE: Heh

Funny thing Chuck, I am re-reading that very book! -- TMink

I read it about once every two years.

In between readings, I keep remembering two parts:

[1] Hiding the books.
[2] Fighting the delaying action with a small detachment armed with rifles, dynamite, a barrel of used oil and wits.

Regards,

Chuck(le)
[Be prepared.]

8:18 PM, January 06, 2010  
Blogger GawainsGhost said...

I read this article when Glenn posted it last week, copied the link and sent it to a couple of young male friends of mine.

As to the links, Roissy is all about "Game," which is a euphemism for getting laid. Not that there's anything wrong with that, but the actual focus should be on knowing the woman you're with. Because we live in a culture that promotes divorce, under a legal system that refuses to hold women accountable and financially rewards women and punishes men for divorce, where the defining characteristics of the modern American girl are a sense of entitlement and an overwhelming pretense to superiority.

In such an environment a man would have to be a fool to enter into a fully binding marriage contract, whereby 50% of his income and assets, plus presumptive paternity, are on the line. The odds for bankruptcy and/or betrayal are simply too high.

Women and cowardly or cuckholded men created this mess, and it is in fact wreaking havoc on Western civilization. When the institution of marriage is corrupted, societal collapse is not far behind.

9:28 AM, January 07, 2010  
Blogger L said...

This article, and some of the comments I read here at Dr. Helen's, depress me for days after I read them. The Futurist nails it pretty accurately when he writes about misandry in American culture and jurisprudence, but then, it seems the response to that is always ... misogyny. It was disconcerting to read his post because I could see that much of what he says is clearly true, but so much doesn't correspond to women and men that I know. I mean, I certainly know many guys who've been treated badly by the legal system and by women they loved. I hate this, it's beyond unjust, but ... really, women are the only ones who ever behave badly? Because apparently the Futurist believes men do no wrong.

Maybe it makes me so uncomfortable because I know I've behaved in some of the ways that infuriate men so much. I've never taken anyone's money or kid, but in other less drastic ways. I grew up, though, and did my best to clean up my mistakes. I never at any time thought men were evil. It just makes me sad when it's clear that men think I'M evil due only to my gender. Often it's a man I like (in the general human/friend way, not romantically, as I'm happily partnered up) and I know there's nothing I could ever do to change his mind. He's just lost to me--we'll never be able to even have a real conversation.

I genuinely like the company of masculine men, men who are like my father and grandfather. I live in Texas, so they're thick on the ground. But I know the Futurist, and Dr. Helen and Amy Alkon et al, are right about entrenched misandry. I wish there were something I could do about it.

11:11 AM, January 08, 2010  
Blogger TMink said...

L wrote: " It just makes me sad when it's clear that men think I'M evil due only to my gender."

I was just struck by how mature a comment that was and how well you said it. I bet that many men will hear you talking in that fashion and know that you are indeed worth knowing.

Have a wonderful weekend.

Trey

2:37 PM, January 08, 2010  
Blogger Chuck Pelto said...

TO: L
RE: Patience....

I wish there were something I could do about it. -- L

....patience. And 'Be Prepared'.

We're a tad overdue for being 'knocked down'.

I read Lucifer's Hammer to remind myself of something. That something is that we've been 'hammered' by comets or asteroids more frequently than most people would care to think.

The first such event in 'recorded history', correlates well with the Biblical Flood. See the article at Space.com by following the link.

Research into tree-rings by Professor Baille at Queen's University in Belfast indicates that there have been five (5) events wherein all plant growth on Earth was knocked back for a period of 3 to 7 years.

The last such event correlates with the collapse of what remained of the Roman Empire around 540 AD. And the onset of the Dark Ages.

I did the math and the average time between such events is about 720 years.

Not that such things run like a well-ordered bus schedule, but they DO happen. And the last such event was about 1400 years ago.

So you may not be able to do anything in particular right now. But, if something DOES happen....God forbid....you can be prepared. Why? Because as I stated in an earlier comment on this thread.....

The feminist movement will collapse one milli-second after the fit hits the shan.

Right now, women in the West lead a VERY protected life. They can let themselves 'go'. But the moment we have to struggle to survive...all of that will change.

Regards,

Chuck(le)
[Comets are not known as 'stars of ill omen' for no reason.]

5:36 AM, January 09, 2010  
Blogger Kevin M said...

@Chuck(le): Your point is well made, despite using supermarket-grade apocalypse porn to do it.

9:11 AM, January 09, 2010  
Blogger SWWBO said...

I'm sorry, but you all sound like whiny high school boys who can't get laid. You are pitiful. Do you realize you sound like you believe are all victimized by Western women? Are you the newest victim class?

I suggest you all man up. Blaming your unhappiness on women is childish. If a woman doesn't want you, it has nothing to do with anything but you. Perhaps you should try meeting women at church, and not in bars and on-line.

And this Western Woman will probably survive any catastrophe along with my husband better than all of you put together.
I can shoot, preserve foods, make clothing (from spinning to weaving) and grow crops. I have horses to ride, trees to cut down for firewood and water to drink.

You are all delusional. There is no feminist conspiracy. THe data you depend on for your arguments is unreliable and from unreliable sources. Grow up. Man up. Look to your own selves for happiness.

Your wife left you for no reason? I doubt it.

The fact that the only responses you have to anyone who disagrees with you are ad hominem attacks is quite telling.

9:40 AM, January 09, 2010  
Blogger Chuck Pelto said...

TO: SWWBO
RE: Silly Woman....

'm sorry, but you all sound like whiny high school boys who can't get laid. -- SWWBO

And YOU sound like totally 'stupid', as in my working definition of 'stupid'....

Ignorant and proud of it.

As for high school. I graduated THAT in '69. I'm now a retired lieutenant colonel of infantry who is married to a woman who is (1) described in the latter part of Proverbs 31 and (2) reminds me ofthe female lead in Life Force.

So.....

....you were saying something, silly person?

Regards,

Chuck(le)
[There's no known cure for 'dumb'.]

10:49 AM, January 09, 2010  
Blogger Chuck Pelto said...

TO: Kevin M
RE: Supermarket Porn?

Your point is well made, despite using supermarket-grade apocalypse porn to do it. -- Kevin M

How odd to think of Niven and Pournelle as porn writers.

I say that because oddly enough Lucifer's Hammer was written BEFORE they found the 'smoking gun' of the Dinosaur Killer.

Or were you referring to the Space.Com article correlating the many mythos in many cultures about a 'Great Flood'. Heck. Further research I did noticed that pottery recovered from one of the early iterations of Troy had symbols on it that correlate well with the Navajo ideogram of the 'Thunderbird' which correlate well with a record from an ancient Chinese silk scroll about comets. The view being that of watching an oncoming comet throwing off jets which curve away from the head as it rotates.

'Supermarket porn', you say?

Interesting.....

Regards,

Chuck(le)
[The study of history is the best medicine for a sick mind. -- Livy]

10:54 AM, January 09, 2010  
Blogger Topher said...

SWWBO still refuses to acknowledge there is a reality. We're glad you are living the amazon life, really we are. But you seem to be militantly blind to the fact that there are a lot of evil women in the world, and among those who aren't evil there are those who are incentivized to pump-and-dump a man. There are innocent, play-by-the-rules men victimized by women who decide they want a better deal.

You're going to tell them it's their fault, that they should have chosen more carefully - but what in there makes it right for a woman to take a man's money in perpetuity (which is how alimony law works) or falsely accuse him of abuse with zero evidence to get child custody?

You gotta open your eyes - this stuff happens ALL THE TIME. There is a feminist conspiracy - except it's not a conspiracy, it's in the open. Feminist groups lobbied states to change divorce laws which has brought us to this point.

In any event, Gowdin's Law is in effect. GL states that the first person to call the other side Nazis or Hitler automatically loses.

When discussing matters of love, sex and gender, the parallel to Godwin's Law is "the first person to call the other side 'immature guys who can't get laid' or 'chubby girls who can't get a date'" loses. Congratulations, SWWBO.

1:13 PM, January 09, 2010  
Blogger Chuck Pelto said...

TO: Topher
RE: Good 'Point'

When discussing matters of love, sex and gender, the parallel to Godwin's Law is "the first person to call the other side 'immature guys who can't get laid' or 'chubby girls who can't get a date'" loses. Congratulations, SWWBO. -- Topher

Thanks for bringing that form of 'projection' out.

Regards,

Chuck(le)
[TARGET!!!! Cease fire! Shift target to....! -- Tank Crew gunnery commands..... -- US Army]

1:27 PM, January 09, 2010  
Blogger SWWBO said...

First of all, I am sure there are some evil women just as there are evil men. However, I do not believe that women are encouraged to dump men to get their money by anyone.

I am offended at the condescending tone that The Futurist's post takes in regards to women, as if we are too stupid to make up our own minds about men.

By the way, Chuck, we are very close in age, I graduated from high school in 1971, college in 1975. I am married very happily to a
now-retired Army Officer.

And, Chuck - you do prove my point - the only thing you can say to me is that I'm stupid. Give me some facts to support the Futurist's idea that all Western Women are out to steal from men. Don't just call me names, man up, do some real research, not just read some science fiction.



The Futurist's article is full of statistics that he searched far and wide for. They are not valid across the board for the entire country. For example, his statement that 40% of all rape accusations are false comes from ONE study in 1996 that applied only to the State of Indiana.

The fact is, of course there are false rape accusations, but no one knows what the percentage of them are. Claiming that 40% is a valid figure when it is not is really grasping at straws, don't you think?

1:36 PM, January 09, 2010  
Blogger SWWBO said...

Topher - again, I am not a feminist. Never cared for the feminist agenda, especially abortion.
I'm a grandmother.
I'm a mother.
I'm a wife.

I think that your ideas that there is a feminist conspiracy is wacko.

Now, if you want to talk about a socialist conspiracy, count me in.

But feminist conspiracy, no. It' ain't there.

1:44 PM, January 09, 2010  
Blogger Topher said...

"But feminist conspiracy, no. It' ain't there."

But again, it's not a conspiracy - it's out in the open. Laws of presumptive paternity, no-fault divorce, alimony, asset transfer, sexual harassment - they are all ways of giving _more_ responsibility to men, and removing women from accountability. It's not a conspiracy, it's a political campaign - and they are not unintended consequences. This is what the NOW wants.

And the incentivization game means that otherwise normal, good-natured people are induced into taking from innocent men, because that's the way the system is set up.

We as men don't like having to consider if a woman wants to rip us off (any more than women want to have to consider if a guy they like will try to rape them.) Unfortunately, we have to think about it - two generations of this cultural conditioning has produced a lot of princesses and a lot of eunuchs.

1:59 PM, January 09, 2010  
Blogger SWWBO said...

Well, Topher, back in the day, I did face a lot of sexual harassment - and when I complained about a boss who smacked me on the rear as he walked behind me, I ended up getting transferred to a different department making half as much.

There is a lot of sexual harassment out there - believe me, and unless you work for the government, there is not a damn thing you can do about it without losing your job first. Then, you have to find a lawyer willing to take your case and pay him/her. And if you complained, your annual review would be awful.

No, there are plenty of creepy male bosses out there who will feel up women, threaten them with their jobs if they complain, etc. Nothing you can say will ever convince me that sexual harassment does not exist.

I don't have a problem with no-fault divorce laws, either. Why would any man or woman want to force their partner to stay in a marriage they wanted out of?

So you ain't gonna convince me that sexual harassment laws are unfair. And you are not going to convince me that no-fault divorce laws are wrong.

What is that TV show about the horrible grasping women in some subdivision (as you can see, I don't watch that kinda stuff) - whatever that show is is not a reflection of life. I have never met a woman who marries someone with the idea that she will leave and take him money in the form of alimony.

In fact, very few women are awarded alimony at all. Something like 15% of all divorcing women get alimony.
How can you claim that is an incentive for a woman to divorce a man? (http://parenting.ivillage.com/mom/structure/0,,lwr,00.html)
Seems to me they would really be taking chances on that.

2:20 PM, January 09, 2010  
Blogger Kevin M said...

@Chuck: "porn" as a metaphor for something that is known for its degree of gratification rather than the merits of its content.

There are more peculiar examples: "Jaws" would fall under the rubric "Beach Reading."

Anyway, Lucifer's Hammer was a second-rate novel when it came out (and that's being generous). I call it apocalypse porn because it appeals most particularly to people who have a Thanatos fixation. There are many books about the fall of law and order, asteroids pummeling Earth, a new economic collapse, The USA invaded by Russians, Muslims, Aliens, etc,...they all dwell on what people resort to when all hell breaks loose. Perverse rationalizations for school prayer, mandatory gun ownership and why liberals should be sterilized at birth.

And if you know the difference between Herman Melville and Herman Munster, they all suck mercilessly.

5:28 PM, January 09, 2010  
Blogger Chuck Pelto said...

TO: SWWBO
RE: Heh

By the way, Chuck, we are very close in age, I graduated from high school in 1971, college in 1975. I am married very happily to a
now-retired Army Officer.
-- SWWBO

Yeah? What branch, dearie? Anything to do with jumping out of perfectly good airplanes in flight? How about going through that 'spa' the Army operates out of Benning School for Boys?

[Note: I can't think of any man, in his right mind, who would attach himself to someone who would go by the nom des blogs of She Who Will Be Obeyed i.e., SWWBO.

And, Chuck - you do prove my point - the only thing you can say to me is that I'm stupid. Give me some facts to support the Futurist's idea that all Western Women are out to steal from men. Don't just call me names, man up, do some real research, not just read some science fiction. -- SWWBO

Glad to see that you admit to being 'stupid'. The fact of that is blatantly obvious to anyone who reads your comments.

As for 'facts' about how women in the West have behaved over the last 40 years.....all you need do is pay close attention to what has been going on here. That is IF you have the intellect to do so. But, fortunately, as I pointed out earlier, I don't 'live' with YOU. So I'm better off.

Regards,

Chuck(le)
[God is alive....and Airborne-Ranger qualified. And so am I.]

6:24 PM, January 09, 2010  
Blogger Chuck Pelto said...

TO: Kevin M
RE: Jaws

There are more peculiar examples: "Jaws" would fall under the rubric "Beach Reading." -- Kevin M

Funny.

I took a young woman, a school teacher touring America, from France. To watch that movie when it came out.

She was having some trouble 'checking in' to a Summer hostel-dorm at the University of Nebraska where my sweetheart was living and I stumbled upon the situation. I....being a student of French that year....helped her out in getting 'registered'. My sweetheart and I took her out that evening to a movie....Jaws.

Later on we 'corresponded'. She reported that it took her about a YEAR to go to the beach again.

'Porn', you say?

Anyway, Lucifer's Hammer was a second-rate novel when it came out (and that's being generous). -- Kevin M

Yeah. And pretty good considering it nailed reality before the rest of us recognized that reality can really 'hurt'. That is if it comes to pass.

I'm particularly impressed with how Niven and Pournelle effectively described what could be expected from a cometary impact. But the being 'impressed' only came AFTER reading about how it HAS happened to us. And FIVE TIMES now.

I call it apocalypse porn because it appeals most particularly to people who have a Thanatos fixation. -- Kevin M

Not familiar with the concept of a 'Thantos fixation'. Maybe the good doctor could explain it for our mutual edification.

There are many books about the fall of law and order, asteroids pummeling Earth, a new economic collapse, The USA invaded by Russians, Muslims, Aliens, etc,...they all dwell on what people resort to when all hell breaks loose. Perverse rationalizations for school prayer, mandatory gun ownership and why liberals should be sterilized at birth. -- Kevin M

Funny. I had no such 'rationalization' on my mind. Otherwise, I might have mentioned it in my earlier post. However, I do have a number of good books on hand. Including the Foxfire series and a bunch of others. Just in case things REALLY 'get that bad'.

I'm particularly grateful to the BlogVader for recently pointing out that link where I could download a LOT of good books in PDF format. Got them secured against any possible contingency of that sort. For FREE!

So, please pardon my 'paranoia' about trying to rebuild civilization from the ground up....should it become necessary. All the data I need to help is safely tucked away on my back-up iPod. And the mechanism for powering it, i.e., a back-pack solar panel, is tucked away inside a TEMPEST qualifying foot locker with it.

Regards,

Chuck(le)
P.S. It only cost $400. But, HEY, what price is saving civilization worth?

6:43 PM, January 09, 2010  
Blogger SWWBO said...

LTC(r)Pelto - this is SWWBO's husband (who fully approves her nick, btw).

You are correct, I am not a graduate of the Benning School for Boys, though I am a graduate of several of their merit-badge producing courses. Being able to hurl yourself into the prop blast is a basis for measuring gonad composition, but has little to do with intellectual achievement. If your best argument for your position is "You're a Leg!" then you don't have a position, you just have a hormone problem, not an argument.

I am a 3rd generation Redleg (though dig back far enough there's a Roger's Ranger in there). As I was able to do complex math, they decided not to make me cannon fodder, but gave me cannon, instead.

Your argumentation, such as it is, does a disservice to your branch, Colonel. Just as your boorish behavior fully justifies the change in the commissioning language that removed the term "gentleman" from the form. That clearly had to be done to allow for the commissioning of people with your essentially misogynist views not to mention weak rhetorical skills.

There's a reason Napoleon isn't known for saying "The best generals come from the Infantry."

If that sets all your circuits alight, Colonel, you are simply proving my point. Mind you, I could bandy words with you all day, but your mind is made up, and all you want to do is vent your spleen against all who disagree.

Ergo, arguing with you isn't worth the rhetorical powder to blow you from the gun, sir.

Cheers,

John of Argghhh!
(www.thedonovan.com)

And please don't drop in at my place to just poo-fling in the comments, Colonel. You might like the Gun Pr0n, however.

7:23 PM, January 09, 2010  
Blogger Justthisguy said...

What both SWWBO and TheDonovan said! I have been hanging around their URL for five or so years now, and neither one of them fits any stereotype y'all may have heard of, except maybe the old-fashioned one of competent manly man married to competent womanly woman, both appropriately skilled as well as being cross-trained in each other's skills.

They have a real old-fashioned American homestead, with lotsa land, and livestock, (alotta kitties among em, yay) and tools, and books, and guns.

Lots and lots of guns. SWWBO is such a sweety that she bought TheDonovan a Maxim machine gun with her own money. I'm sure that if she'd had even more money, and the then-effective laws of Kansas had allowed it, she would have bought him one that worked.

The Donovan and SWWBO are absolutely my favorite folks on the entire internet, and maybe in the world. They have indulged my silliness, educated me, corrected me when I was wrong, and always amused and encouraged me, and everybody else who was willing to accept such from them.

2:59 AM, January 10, 2010  
Blogger Justthisguy said...

Oh, Chucky? I, a skinny, nerdy, never-served-in-armed-forces geek, hurled myself out into the prop blast no less than 11 times, about half of them without benefit of static line. It was scary, and it was fun, but it doesn't mean that I am necessarily good at anything else.

I mind my former next-door neighbor, a prissy old guy who didn't like people having their cars drip oil on his nice driveway. He had a total of twelve jumps, one more than I. His twelfth jump was sometime in the early morning hours of June 6, 1944.

Parachuting is just a risky way to get quickly from an airplane to the ground. Most times when you do that, you have a beer and good talk. Sometimes, you do combat.

You can do combat without parachuting, and you can do parachuting without combat.

3:49 AM, January 10, 2010  
Blogger SWWBO said...

I think that Dr. Helen and her spouse, the Instapundit, would both be wise to check out Cassandra's post at http://www.villainouscompany.com/vcblog/archives/2010/01/fact_checking_t.html .

She fact checks the Futurist most fairly.

11:41 AM, January 10, 2010  
Blogger Kevin M said...

@Chuck: Your French girlfriend actually went back to the beach after only a year?!

Merde! It's been over 30 years since I saw Jaws, and I still break out in hives when I smell salt water!

2:40 PM, January 10, 2010  
Blogger Mark said...

KevinM -- And if you know the difference between Herman Melville and Herman Munster, they all suck mercilessly.

See, that is one of the reasons that I am glad that my degree is not in English Literature. I can enjoy books like Lucifer's Hammer without having a bunch of deconstructionist nonsense interfering with my pleasure in reading it. Normal people know that Lucifer's Hammer is fun and Ulysses is painful and it sucks.

12:08 PM, January 11, 2010  
Blogger Kevin M said...

This comment has been removed by the author.

2:56 PM, January 11, 2010  
Blogger Kevin M said...

Mark:

If you had majored in English literature, you would still enjoy Lucifer's Hammer, and you would have still hated Ulysses. Contrary to popular myth, only empty-headed saps and supplicating toadies like what their professors like, and I trust you are not an empty-headed sap.

The reason someone gets such a degree is so that they can tell the difference between what they enjoy and what, in the long run, will amount to something. I imagine Dr. Helen credits her education for enabling her to tell the latest self-help drek from Dr. Phil from the work of William James.

I love a good slice of pizza every now and again. That doesn't mean the teenager who slapped it together should cook at Maxim's.

4:43 PM, January 11, 2010  
Blogger Ymarsakar said...

However, I do not believe that women are encouraged to dump men to get their money by anyone.

I do believe they are encouraged to do so. The evidence of fake liberal and Leftist social engineering bears that out in spades.

5:29 PM, January 11, 2010  
Blogger Ymarsakar said...

To be specific, Lyndon Johnson's Great Society mostly destroyed the up and coming black middle class here in America, by degrading the need for black women to get support from black fathers. Black fathers lost out in their role as fathers and black women replaced fathers for the government welfare check.

It doesn't matter if this is an intention or not. It's just how it is when we speak of Leftists.

5:36 PM, January 11, 2010  
Blogger Chuck Pelto said...

TO: Justthisguy
RE: [OT] Hosing Time

Oh, Chucky? I, a skinny, nerdy, never-served-in-armed-forces geek, hurled myself out into the prop blast no less than 11 times, about half of them without benefit of static line.

I've got, on my count 65 jumps. All static line. All with between 5 and 120 other crazy people all trying to get out the same door in as short a period as possible.

The BIG difference between my jumps and yours, I suspect, was the casualty count. As an enlisteman, i.e., the early 1970s—jumping T10s—we had, on average 10% casualties. That was reduced because of the introduction of the MC1-1 between the time I left active service as a sergeant and returned as a 2d lieutenant.

However, there were still hazards. I recall one incident where a paratrooper left half of his head inside the C130 because his reserve parachute was 'accidentally' opened INSIDE the aircraft with an open door. He was pulled out of the aircraft against his intentions.

Got any 'war stories' to beat them?

Regards,

Chuck(le)
[Now and then, it's necessary to 'hose down' the youngsters.]

P.S. There's more where them came from....

7:24 PM, January 11, 2010  
Blogger Chuck Pelto said...

P.P.S. According to the battalion chaplain—the man who baptized my eldest daughter—who was on the drop zone for morale support.....

.....you could hear the 'thump'. And he wondered what had caused it. He doesn't like to discuss what he found when he got to the place where the body had landed.

7:27 PM, January 11, 2010  
Blogger Chuck Pelto said...

TO: SWWBO's 'Husband'
RE: Heh

And please don't drop in at my place to just poo-fling in the comments, Colonel. You might like the Gun Pr0n, however. -- SWWBO's 'Husband'

If you didn't want me to 'drop in' why did you provide a URL?

TO: All
RE: Talking About.....

....SERIOUS confliction....

'nuff said.

Regards,

Chuck(le)
[The Truth will out.....]

7:52 PM, January 11, 2010  
Blogger Chuck Pelto said...

P.S. More for SWBBO's 'Husband', later....right now....

....I've got an elder father-in-law just out of eye surgery and supper to make for SDIC31OP*

* She Described In Chapter 31 Of Proverbs

8:02 PM, January 11, 2010  
Blogger SWWBO said...

Chuck,

Prayers for your father's-in-law quick recovery.

And make your wife a lovely dinner.

Cheers,

SWWBO

8:21 PM, January 11, 2010  
Blogger John of Argghhh! said...

Gee, Colonel, why the "scare quotes" around the term "husband?"

Because I just used her already open login rather than dredge up a login I don't usually use - are implying that I am a figment of her imagination, or were you after something else?

I have dangled under a T10, I find the mode of transport to be damaging to the football-player sized soldier - especially the T10. I have also jumped from a hovering helo into the tree-landing platform and have that merit badge, among others. I freely admit that I prefer to drive to battle, rather than dangle under bedsheets and then be restricted to leather personnel carriers.

I will say the winged glider at least takes passage of written tests in addition to the practical exams, whereas jump wings were simpler, absent the presence of an asshat wearing a Black Hat. They just required overcoming a very natural reluctance to stepping into nothingness and relying on some Quartermaster soldier you'd never met who'd packed your 'chute. Which I did.

You've many more jumps than I, and... so what, in the context of the discussion at hand? Good on ya, Colonel, but large gonads to not translate, as I noted earlier, into cogent argument. In fact, it's not argument, it's just an inapt display of dominance behavior.

As for the invitation, that was sincere - I suspect, as long as you were civil to SWWBO, you would find an otherwise congenial atmosphere, especially if you have a taste for military firearms. Many are long service vets of all services and many wars who hang out at my place.

But I have Rulez for commenters, among which is if all you have to offer is insults (e.g., poo-flinging) don't bother... unless it's one of those obvious snark-fest posts where the grunts slam the tankers, the tankers snark the gunners, and we all pick on Jarheads, Squids, and the Junior Birdmen.

And what SWWBO said regarding your father-in-law and wife. Enjoy your F-i-L while you can. I just buried my father... the two-war hero Redleg in the family with the CIB, Silver Star, DFC, BSM w/V and 7 Purple Hearts. I am a pale reflection of that soldier. Yes,
I said Redleg. And he earned that CIB. I miss him greatly.

Of course, now I'm guilty of ignoring the topic of the thread, but as I noted earlier, there's no point in arguing with people who've made up their minds.

John of Argghhh!
(www.thedonovan.com)

9:37 PM, January 11, 2010  
Blogger Chuck Pelto said...

TO: SWWBO
RE: Prayers....

....ALWAYS help. Especially those that are heart-felt.

Thanks.

And she DOES get a great supper. Every evening. And a great breakfast every morning. Something of a side-effect of going through that 'spa' the Army offers out of Benning School for Boys. I learned to 'appreciate' food from that experience.

So far...dad's doing okay. They had some 'difficulties'—things they have yet to explain—but we'll see what develops. Aside from a severe case of the 'shakes'—adrenaline rush and subsequent 'crash'—he seems to be doing okay. I take him in for the follow-up examination at 0830 hrs, local.

Regards,

Chuck(le)
[Food, an essential part of a balanced diet.]

10:05 PM, January 11, 2010  
Blogger Chuck Pelto said...

TO: SWWBO's 'Husband'
RE: Quartermaster?

Buckie....

....I think you've got an identity crisis on your hands. And I can understand the 'why' of it. The evidence you provide speaks volumes.

Regards,

Chuck(le)
P.S. More tomorrow. And probably better served at MY place, as you demure about such discussion at yours. Furthermore....

....if you REALLY want a to engage in a p---ing contest, I'd rather we didn't take up the good doctor's bandwidth to do it.

In the meantime, consider this....

[1] I buried my Mother in 1972, oddly enough, she worked across the street from my mother-in-law in DC during WWII. My Father in 1979. He flew Martin Marauders over Europe. My mother-in-law died a year ago last Christmas. What ANY of this has to do with your efforts at chest beating remains to be seen. But since you brought it up....

....welcome to the 'party', pal. You have my sympathies, as I've been there for quite some time already.

[2] I was not discussion the number of jumps accomplished with YOU. Again...why you bring it up is, in a manner of psychological matters....'interesting'.

[3] Tell me, quartermaster....

....when did YOU graduate from LEDC? I did in '92. I did CGSC in '86. [Note: I have a STRONG secondary in logistics: company, battalion, brigade, division, installation and state-level. That's the 'practical' side. LEDC taught me the theoretical 'corps' and 'theater' sides.]

[4] Additionally....

....I had a chuckle from your mention of the numbskull 'blackhats'. Going through the Ranger course, I had to take over giving the pre-jump briefing from one such character because he was fouling-up the procedure for dealing with a towed-jumper BIG time. When I corrected him, he asked me if I thought I could do 'better'. I said I could and I proved it.

After that....for some odd reason....I was ridden 'big time' by the other blackhats whenever we had a jump mission.

Go fig.

Sooooo....

....will I see you at MY PLACE?

10:23 PM, January 11, 2010  
Blogger SWWBO said...

Chuck,

FYI, a Redleg is an Artilleryman, *not* a Quartermaster.

My husband, his father and his grandfather were all in the Field Artillery. (which requires good math skills).

7:17 AM, January 12, 2010  
Blogger kmg said...

I read Cassandra's drivel, and it is totally bunk.

If anything, she makes The Futurist's article look stronger, and proves the blind misandry that he describes.

11:27 PM, January 12, 2010  
Blogger Chuck Pelto said...

TO: SWWBO [Note: Like the 'BO' part....]
RE: Heh

Maybe hubby will show you the e-mails I've sent to him this AM.

Regards,

Chuck(le)
[Leavenworth: If you're a 'guest' of US in the military prison, they threaten to send you the the federal facility....if you 'misbehave'.]

P.S. Regarding 'redlegs'.....

....nice people to have around when things get a tad 'thick'.

P.P.S. I really did not enjoy them dropping their ordinance on ME. But I realize it was all in 'fun and jest'.....heh.....

11:18 AM, January 13, 2010  
Blogger Chuck Pelto said...

P.P.P.S. If your appellation/nom des blogs—SWWBO—applies to your children or the fine ladies who provided me with that wonderful collection of recipes while I was at CGSC, I have no problems with that.

However, if it applies to your husband........well......

11:25 AM, January 13, 2010  
Blogger kmg said...

Topfer and Chuck have it right.

SWWBO is flailing like the non-thinker she is. Note how accustomed she is to having her husband bail her out after she gets in over her head.

7:09 PM, January 13, 2010  
Blogger Just an average dude... said...

Hey Helen, just an off-topic comment as I stumbled here (off of the futurist post). I'm a photographer and I just gotta say there's just something about that profile pic, its very flattering. Very nic pic.

6:32 AM, January 18, 2010  
Blogger Peter said...

He is, in no way, condoning violence against women and atrocities committed against them in many underdeveloped countries. He is saying that masculinity in the west is being put down while femininity is being celebrated. Any man living in the US can plainly see the obvious truth in his article.

To further my point that it is the system and not the woman at fault, take the example of an American marrying a girl from outside the US and bringing her to the US to live with him. After learning about her right in the US, she will have to be a saint to say no to his money if they split up. This actually gives her a reason to split up and undoubtedly influences her decision to stay in the marriage even after a small fight.

I have seen so many of my friends go through the family law courts and get screwed so badly that they cannot even think about remarrying. One buddy was taken to court by his ex-wife to stop him from taking their child GoKarting because she felt it was "reckless endangerment". The kid loves going racing with his dad every weekend and she almost took that from him just out of spite. The judge had sided with her for every one of her complaints until then but told her that her request was simply ridiculous and said that he would have liked to go GoKarting with his dad.

Seeing friends go through the dryer time and time again has made a lot of men like me jaded about marriage and question its very worth. I have since dated women and had great success and happiness without any of the risks of marriage. A lot of guys in my social circle of young professionals are doing the same. We are just doing what's best for us given the options that we have. Marriage has become a bad bet and men are logical beings.

10:40 PM, November 08, 2010  

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