Wednesday, July 08, 2009

The Mancession is here

Christina Hoff Sommers, author of such books as The War Against Boys: How Misguided Feminism Is Harming Our Young Men, talks to PJTV host Allen Barton about the Mancession--which she describes as a recession that has more severe impact on men than women. She believes that women's groups need to spend more time helping women in Iran and other places outside the US to gain the equality that American women have already achieved. She states that some of these feminist groups spend their time denigrating men and ruining job skills for men--rather than helping women. I agree.

You can listen to the interview here.

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28 Comments:

Blogger Brother J said...

The Wall Street Journal istaking notice of this phenomenon as well. From today: http://online.wsj.com/article/SB10001424052970203577304574272570149153010.html

6:18 PM, July 08, 2009  
Blogger Brother J said...

Sorry, it seems part of the link got truncated when I pasted in in before:
http://online.wsj.com/article/SB10001424052970203577304574272570149153010.html

6:26 PM, July 08, 2009  
Blogger Pro-Male/Anti-Feminist Tech said...

And notice how at the bottom of the WSJ article, its all about how women are the ones really suffering (or will be suffering). The article was written by a woman so that's nothing new.

8:33 PM, July 08, 2009  
Blogger EKatz said...

"And notice how at the bottom of the WSJ article, its all about how women are the ones really suffering (or will be suffering). The article was written by a woman so that's nothing new."

That's not how the article ends. The author's not talking about how women are the ones "really suffering". She says that: 1) men and women with lower income and/or lower education are more vulnerable in the recession than men and women with higher income and more education and 2) women, especially those in education and health care sectors (which have shown an increase in jobs), have been impacted less severely by the recession so far.

I don't see how this undermines the main point of the article, which is that when you directly compare the unemployment rates of men and women, men are coming out with higher percentages of job loss.

8:58 PM, July 08, 2009  
Blogger Pro-Male/Anti-Feminist Tech said...

The implication is that women are going to be the real victims any time now.

This article was written by a woman so she can't admit that men are the ones suffering here. It's no different than when Hillary Clinton made the nonsense claim that women were the real victims in war (and not the men doing the actual dying).

9:01 PM, July 08, 2009  
Blogger Master Doh-San said...

and ruining job skills for men

Spot on. Didn't you write something recently about how men's thinking is totally legitimate? Unfortunately, the feminasties and feminazis have decreed that boys will not be boys.

Men and women think differently. But men are being forced to act like they think like women. This is what's ruining the workplace.

9:01 PM, July 08, 2009  
Blogger EKatz said...

"... so she can't admit that men are the ones suffering here."

In the very first line of the article she "admits" it rather bluntly. I also don't see the article's implication that in the future it will only be women who are the "real victims" - particularly as the article points out that industries that employ a lot of women, like health care and education, are not hard hit, while industries with more male employees are.

9:19 PM, July 08, 2009  
Blogger Pro-Male/Anti-Feminist Tech said...

This comment has been removed by the author.

9:54 PM, July 08, 2009  
Blogger Pro-Male/Anti-Feminist Tech said...

EKatz, in the last paragraph the authoress had to make it about women. There is no reason to discuss the state of women at all in an article about how men are disproportionately losing jobs. The fact that she brought up women at all proves that she is trying to claim women are the ones really suffering. Yes, I know that it is as illogical as Hillary Clinton claiming that women are the real victims of war not the men who are actually dying.

Women can't stand it when they aren't the focus of something or anything. That's why the authoress had to make it about women at the end of her article.

9:55 PM, July 08, 2009  
Blogger EKatz said...

"The fact that she brought up women at all proves that she is trying to claim women are the ones really suffering."

No, what it proves is that she's written her piece for a newspaper. That's what these writers usually do. They usually end their articles on the secondary or more tangential point (as most readers usually only read the first few paragraphs of a piece before moving on); the focus of any newspaper article or op-ed piece is set forward in the beginning. And the ending paragraphs of the article also place attention on job loss disparity between people (both men and women) of different income/education brackets; it's not exclusively about women.

As for bringing up women at all... the whole point of the article is to compare men's job losses to women's job losses, and show how men's job losses are overall worse in comparison. How can one make this comparison without bringing up women as well?

10:11 PM, July 08, 2009  
Blogger Memphis Steve said...

I love Christina Hoff Sommers! Sometimes I think she's done more for the cause of men's rights, or really just simple equality, than anyone else.

11:55 PM, July 08, 2009  
Blogger br549 said...

Meh. It's all still penis envy. Even with modern medical miracles, such as the adadictome operations now available, you can't turn ovaries into testicles, and you can't grow a prostate in a test tube, find a place to put it, hook it up, and make it work.
So they had to go hard in the other direction.

I don't know why a woman would want a prostate in the first place. They're a pain in the ass (literally) when you get older, and they cause skid marks.

6:07 AM, July 09, 2009  
Blogger TMink said...

Bill Cosby said that blaming the white man for his troubles is like a very addictive drug. Sadly, many in our culture are addicted. The problem is that false blame precludes real solutions.

As long as the black communities blame white guys for their troubles they will fail to address the crippeling lack of fathers in their children's lives and young black men will continue to grow up in prison, young black women will continue to have children before they are ready to do so.

One of the more troubling aspects of this is how the black Christian clergy have become so much of the problem. There was a time when the black clergy helped lead this nation out of horrible sin and racism. Now they are a tool of oppression and hopelessness in their own community.

God hates corrupt clergy. Woe unto them.

Trey

10:04 AM, July 09, 2009  
Blogger Josh said...

I've always wondered why Christina Romer was so enthusiastic about preventing all the jobs from going to construction when that was precisely the part of the economy that was doing badly. I thought the stimulus was a good idea because the paralysis of private investment gave the government the opportunity to buy up construction labor at bargain rates; because the economists I trusted were saying the recession would be longer and deeper than expected; and because we needed to improve our infrastructure anyway. I was wondering why funds were diverted away from the damaged part of the economy to one that is growing far faster than GDP. Now I know. I hadn't heard the story about NOW.

This part of feminism frustrates me. Sommers is correct: there are quite a few feminists out there who respond reflexively to any proposal, analyzing it for any benefit to men or harm to women as if all of life is a completely zero-sum equation. The question is, how do you respond? NOW and others in the same ideological group tend to ask, "What's wrong? How can we blame men?" Rather than responding by blaming feminists or women, the correct way to handle the situation seems to be to break out of the gender war framework. but how? A serious discussion of public policy, of course, will never see the light of day. So the question is, how do you respond in a way that makes people feel good about themselves for agreeing with you while simultaneously revealing the ugliness of this kind of reflexive, zero-sum thinking? While exposing the ugliness, you'd have to appear positive, upbeat, and above the fray.

11:53 AM, July 09, 2009  
Blogger Roman Wolf said...

Just to make this quick. Sommers is right on, as usual. Blaming others in anyway quickly becomes an addiction. For instance, for some Christians everything is an "act of god". For some skinheads, everything comes back to an evil cabal of "Jews". For Liberals and some blacks it's the "white man's" fault.

Finally, on clergy, finding a good Priest/Pastor/ect. has become near impossible. Every other smoe clergy seems to be going on about their liberation theology and social justice(really Marxism under different names).

2:06 PM, July 09, 2009  
Blogger TMink said...

Well said Roman. We had a good, kind, intelligent pastor at our last church and some people in the congreagation ran him off.

It took us 2 years, but we ahve found another church home. We totally agree about so called liberation theology.

Trey

3:02 PM, July 09, 2009  
Blogger Cham said...

I must say, it's been awhile since anyone mentioned boot straps. Are these things being used anymore?

4:07 PM, July 09, 2009  
Blogger br549 said...

I think it was in this very blog that someone stated that Bush was a Christian Socialist. In some ways, I can see that. This country hasn't been a true republic in over 100 years, maybe 150.

8:09 PM, July 09, 2009  
Blogger br549 said...

Cham, you'd be a hoot over a Snapple and some Hershey's chocolate. You are knee deep in republican / libertarian, and thigh deep in democrat at the same time. I'll bet you get in arguments with everyone you know.

8:11 PM, July 09, 2009  
Blogger TMink said...

br549, that was SGT. Ted over at Althouse. I quote him, but it was his term, and one I greatly appreciate.

Trey

8:39 PM, July 09, 2009  
Blogger br549 said...

Yeah, I know what you mean. I tweet his coaches' whistle and throw down his bullshit flag all the time. I love his sense of humor.

10:21 PM, July 09, 2009  
Blogger God Of Bacon said...

A previously dominant group is now complaining about being victimized.

8:18 AM, July 10, 2009  
Blogger Cham said...

Men are free to complain all they want. I'm not so sure that I feel so sorry for them. I have a "mans job", as it has been a long time since I have worked with a woman as an equal. Trust me, I've taken a huge financial hit recently due to the recession but I'm not going to whine. If I wanted job security I'd go work for the gubmit.

I have noticed that the men that I work with, almost all of them are married to women who work as well. The women often work in positions that offer far more job security as well as excellent benefits like fully paid health coverage and retirement plans. My and the mens employers don't offer these amenities, but they do offer the ability to earn excellent compensation. The men make out financially during a strong economy while their wives are able to get the job security and health coverage in case there is a downturn.

When you take on employment in construction or sales you should swallow the fact that in a bad economy your earnings are going to take a hit. If you don't like the deal you get switch fields.

9:03 AM, July 10, 2009  
Blogger dr.alistair said...

individually i don`t feel victimised, but as a group men are under siege.

my children are taught in schools comprised of female teachers who spout socialist rhetoric constantly about giving and volunteering and environmental issues and about getting along...and that it`s not about merit or winning or excellence of any sort.

competitiveness is frowned upon for the most part and individual skills such as musicianship and athletics are marginalised.

not that these are solely male traits, it is part of a collectivist ideology that promotes passiveness which girls and pink-shirts co-opt automatically.

when my boys spend time with me i see a lag in thier intensity initially, until they focus and play thier music as they can, and practice thier soccer skills with thier usual intensity once again.

i find it hard knowing my children are being indoctinated by trade-unionists who promote low common denomiator behaviour and cull those who would wish to excell.

this new world aint so brave though....

11:21 AM, July 10, 2009  
Blogger Archivist said...

Newspspapers having a fun time kicking men in the gonads during the recession.

2:31 PM, July 10, 2009  
Blogger Josh said...

I have noticed that the men that I work with, almost all of them are married to women who work as well. The women often work in positions that offer far more job security as well as excellent benefits like fully paid health coverage and retirement plans. My and the mens employers don't offer these amenities, but they do offer the ability to earn excellent compensation. The men make out financially during a strong economy while their wives are able to get the job security and health coverage in case there is a downturn.

When you take on employment in construction or sales you should swallow the fact that in a bad economy your earnings are going to take a hit. If you don't like the deal you get switch fields.


meh. It's not about whether they're whining or not. The point is that the circulatory system for construction, private finance, is all clogged with bubbles. Meanwhile, the public circulatory system for health and education is working just fine. The idea behind the stimulus is to temporarily take some parts off the private circulatory system and move them to the public one to keep people employed. After all, it's not like we've suddenly run out of work to do. Apparently, however, feminists pushed for pumping more money into health care, which is already publicly funded, subsidized, and arguably growing too fast. That damages prospects for economic recovery and increases unemployment, which isn't going to benefit anyone.

5:05 PM, July 10, 2009  
Blogger br549 said...

As dr. alistair's opening statement above says: Victim? No. Target? Yes.

I am beginning to understand a point made in posts here, back a few weeks ago, about the feminization of America. I couldn't quite get my head around it then. Clear as a bell now.

I'm still waiting to see how the libs implode once they get all they want. What are they going to do when the fight is over - when all the "problems" belong strictly to them? Will they have the real chutzpah? Will they be willing to fight and die for what they have made when someone comes to take it away? They will come. And those who would come, will not be feminized. There are many nations in this world who are not "messed with" by other nations for one reason. Anyone care to venture a guess as to what that reason is?
Does anyone see that respect (be honest)for Obama? If we allow our position of strength in this world to diminish, a natural power struggle will occur to fill that vacuum. I can see the entire "new world" eventually getting torn into chunks and divided up. Pay attention to Honduras. It's more important to the future of things than many realize. Pay attention to how Obama and Clinton the lap dog handle it. Yeah, she's become a lap dog.

7:55 PM, July 10, 2009  
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