Saturday, February 21, 2009

Kay Hymowitz in the WSJ: Where in the World is OctoDad?


Blogger uncle ken said...

OctoDad filled a milk carton, and left for the nearest bar, clutching his $200. The putative scion of these eight kids is Rosie Palmela and her five sisters. I like what the Euros are doing, keeping dibs on dad.

Ann Coulter has covered single motherhood, and it's associated problems nicely in her latest book; which has, of course, provoked a firestorm of protest from "progressive" elements.

Besides the poor children, other casulaties include accountability, responsibility, and common sense. Not to mention the rapid decline of civil society.

7:12 AM, February 21, 2009  
Blogger Cham said...

I often wonder about sperm donors. They enter a clinic, fill out a few forms, cum in a plastic cup, then leave with a check. Do they even think for a second about the kids they father? Yes, I said father because if it is their genes they are the biological father. FATHER!

Then someone like Nadya comes along with more psychosis than one can count, she finds Dr. Inseminator and the next thing you know it's 6+8, no income, 3 bedrooms, a bunch of kids with huge medical problems, no help and it was $1 million just for the birth. Nadya, doesn't think this is a problem because the state will pay, it's been paying already for 7 years and there is more where that came from. More kids means more money for Nadya.

But Daddy is absolved from any obligation to this mess, he's got his check and has moved on with his life. Good luck California, because you are going to need it.

The US has become a haven for all sorts of questionable birth practices, the Indians are happily coming over here so they can choose the sex of their babies, God forbid they should have a girl. Does India ever think that if there are more men than women (even if women are regarded as the lowest form of life) that it might create a tad bit of a problem?

Several states are enthusiastically trying to eliminate abortion yet nobody is looking at all this other highly questionable stuff.

10:08 AM, February 21, 2009  
Blogger MikeT said...

If men are always held responsible for the children they knowingly create, they'll stop enabling this behavior with sperm donations. The only time a man should be exempt is if he donates sperm to a couple trying to conceive that asks him for help or if he is subjected to deception (as would be the case with a woman using the proverbial turkey baster after a blow job to get herself pregnant).

10:27 AM, February 21, 2009  
Blogger MikeT said...

The US has become a haven for all sorts of questionable birth practices, the Indians are happily coming over here so they can choose the sex of their babies, God forbid they should have a girl. Does India ever think that if there are more men than women (even if women are regarded as the lowest form of life) that it might create a tad bit of a problem?

You just committed one of the most heinous of modern sins. You just questioned a woman's absolute right to choose. Congratulations, you're a modern day heretic.

10:29 AM, February 21, 2009  
Blogger uncle ken said...

Naming the OctoKids:

Tom Thumb
Pointer Sister
Biggy Middle

10:38 AM, February 21, 2009  
Blogger JG said...

Mike T:

Your solution to irresponsible women is to try to put even more obligations on men. Too funny.

10:54 AM, February 21, 2009  
Blogger JG said...

"The only time a man should be exempt is if he donates sperm to a couple trying to conceive that asks him for help or if he is subjected to deception (as would be the case with a woman using the proverbial turkey baster after a blow job to get herself pregnant)."


You realize, don't you, that a man is liable under current law for child support under the latter two situations you described.

If a man informally offers to "help" a woman, or couple, become pregnant and the woman informally "waives" any right to child support, the man is still liable to pay child support. If the woman ever takes social service payments, the man is responsible for covering those, and if the woman ever changes her mind (and women are known to do that on occasion), she can still sue him at any time for child support.

With regard to unintended use of sperm, men are clearly responsible. In one case, a man passed out from alcohol at a party and a woman who had been wanting to get pregnant got on top of him and still got him to ejaculate even though he was unconscious. He was found to be liable for child support.

Now it's funny that you are against liability in an informal impregnation situation - where it would be "he said, she said" - but you are against an anonymous situation (i.e. sperm donor) who goes through a doctor, and everything is on the up-and-up.

Kind of bizarre, actually.

11:44 AM, February 21, 2009  
Blogger JG said...

If Octo-mom can't adequately take care of her kids, physically and financially, take them away. Put them with foster parents or even adopt them out.

Then set child support payments she has to make and, in fact, do it under imputed income of what she would make full-time (just like they do to men).

I assume she won't come anywhere close to the required monthly payment for 14 kids, a woman like her would probably not even work, so put her in jail every weekend for defaulting on child support and have a judge yell at her on a periodic basis that she better get her lazy butt off the couch and get a job or she's going to go to jail for a lot longer. Keep adding interest to the amount due and only let her keep a bare minimum of the wages she makes to live a very spartan life when she is not at work.

In other words, treat her like a man. I thought that's what feminists and most women want?

11:49 AM, February 21, 2009  
Blogger Rob Fedders said...

Don't forget to spike your used condoms

12:02 PM, February 21, 2009  
Blogger DADvocate said...

After all, the argument goes, a father is just as much a parent as a mother.

Except when we decide he's not,...

Hymowitz hits the nail on the head with that. If you want responsible, caring fathers don't give others the power to push fathers out of their children's lives on any whim.

12:29 PM, February 21, 2009  
Blogger Mia Zagora said...

JG: Listen, I'm no fan of "Octo-Mom" - I think she's nuts for wanting 14 kids - but it looks like she's getting some sweet money for some interviews and is going to be more than able to financially care for her brood of 14, and may even be able to enlist help. She's looking at a million dollar house and has gone on shopping sprees - she seems to have plenty of money.

This woman is being demonized by the media. She is being painted as a freeloader, a psychotic Angelina Jolie fan, a person sponging off the backs of the taxpayers. Sheesh!

I wonder if the reaction would be the same if the media descended on the home of an African-American woman who has 18 kids, lives in public housing, has no job and is a drug addict with no desire to get clean? I know such a woman exists because I have friends who adopted one of her kids. I also know she's not the woman in America in her situation.

As far as "Octo-Dad" goes, I'm sure if he knew what his sperm were being used for, he wouldn't have particpated. Maybe I just have too much of an overactive imagination, but what if "Octo-Dad" is the fertility doctor? He doesn't exactly strike me as one who would care about ethics.

7:22 PM, February 21, 2009  
Blogger Cham said...

The difference between octomom and the black welfaremom is what I love about this entire situation.

Octomom looks eerily like Angelina Jolie. She's pretty, wellspoken, educated and seems so nice. She says she loves her children and only wants the best for them. We don't know what black welfare mom says because she speaks fluent ebonics and is missing most of her teeth. Black welfaremom is easy to dislike, she's a stereotype and when we see black welfaremom we can point at her and think about everything America likes to hate about the demlibs and black people. She's evil.

But Octomom,well, um, sort, of, looks like us.

7:48 PM, February 21, 2009  
Blogger Mia Zagora said...

Cham: So you're saying that because she looks like "us" the media like to demonize her? That sort of makes sense.

After all, there is no shortage of welfare moms - for whatever reason. The "stereotype" is the African American woman living in subsidized housing. The lady I mentioned above is only one of many. I'm sure there are many white or whatever color women who live the same way. It doesn't really matter. My point is, these types of people don't get the attention. Not only do they not get excoriated in the media, they don't get offered millions of dollars to go on TV for an interview with some foof who gets paid to look pretty/handsome and read a teleprompter.

It's a crazy world.

11:57 PM, February 21, 2009  
Blogger Micha Elyi said...

JG (10:54 AM), thanks for pointing out the error of so much man-bashing. Alas, Mike T isn't alone in the folly of believing the "solution to irresponsible women is to try to put even more obligations on men." It would indeed be "too funny" if being the object of man-hate didn't hurt so much.

By the way, I notice that Single Mothers by Choice hasn't received even half the scorn heaped on the mockingly dubbed "Octodad". Interesting, huh?

12:58 AM, February 22, 2009  
Blogger JG said...

I think this is part of the deal with chivalrous men:

When they are growing up, they learn you don't hit girls. That's fine, but they learn they are merely adequate when they don't hit girls. Subconsciously, they extend it to being better than adequate, or even great, if this precept is broadened to NEVER OPPOSING WOMEN in any way. Then they are great men.

So when a woman acts in an irresponsible way, their mind just shuts down even considering that the woman is at fault in any way.

So when a woman drowns her five kids - one after the other - her husband must be completely responsible for that. Poor woman. If a woman shoots her husband in the back while he is sleeping - and there is no real evidence of any abuse, even the kids say they never saw anything - the man must still be guilty of abusing her in some way. It has to be that way, the poor woman is clearly not responsible for anything that happens.

There are enough of these proud, chivalrous men around (even some on this board) so that irresponsible women can usually be covered in society. They need to be told "NO!" and to be held responsible in society - just like men - but they can get away with acting like children. And many women do.

8:51 AM, February 22, 2009  
Blogger JG said...

A huge problem arises when you have these pathologically chivalrous men in positions of power, such as legislators (i.e. Joe Biden), family court judges and police officers.

The woman could be completely at fault, but the man is attacked by these chivalrous boobs in positions of power. They are like robots with a circuit that instantly shuts them down if they even consider the notion that the woman could be at fault, but they can lay into men full force - it's even fun - because society allows them to take out their frustration in that way.

And many women - especially the childlike variety - certainly won't oppose that state of affairs. They will more likely be smirking about what they get away with.

8:58 AM, February 22, 2009  
Blogger harold said...

Black welfare mom? get some stats on white welfare moms and you son;'t be so friggin bigotted...get some insight into broken "familiies' under slavery and anti-black conventions for so many years in America and you will see clearer. Understand that so many black men are in jail for drugs etc and you will understand that those young black not in jail have little reason for marriage when they have lots of women available (black men not only in jail but die on average much earlier than whites).

Don't like octomom? want sterilize via the State? Have Us take away her kids and Us pay for their upkeep?

The lady is simply deranged.

9:38 AM, February 22, 2009  
Blogger Cham said...


The state is going to have no choice but to take those kids. Unless octomom wins the megamillions lottery and takes a lump sum payout, there is no way she can raise those kids on her own. Octomom isn't done having babies, for as long as she can she will be reproducing.

10:54 AM, February 22, 2009  
Blogger Forgetfulmuse said...

As far as "Octo-Dad" goes, I'm sure if he knew what his sperm were being used for, he wouldn't have particpated.

It was said on the Dr Phil show (I know I know, I'm making an embarrassing admission here) that both grandma Suleman and the sperm donor had gone to the doctor and begged him not to implant any more embryos (the other 6 having come from the same donor). The doctor apparently promised them he wouldn't. It sounds to me like someone needs to lose his license (if he has one) either way.

Hey, at least they all have the same mother AND father...?

1:37 PM, February 22, 2009  
Blogger randian said...

As far as I know, no state actually exempts fathers from child support liabilities when donating sperm. What shields them is anonymity, not the law. Since sperm is a strict liability substance, if a mother could identify the father I am certain he would be held responsible for paying child support. I think it's just a matter of time before a woman sues the donor agency into revealing the identity of the donor, or the state launches such a suit on her behalf.

5:17 PM, February 22, 2009  
Blogger harold said...

(Newser) – A sperm donor who believes he fathered all of Nadya Suleman's octuplets said he believes she was still married when they started dating and she asked him for sperm, reports the Huffington Post. They had been seeing each other just weeks when she took a sample of sperm he had donated at Suleman's home and cushioned it between her breasts, he reports on Good Morning America in an interview to air tomorrow.

"I remember her saying when I donated that the doctor told her that she had to keep it warm by putting it between her breasts until she took it in," he recalled. He also, at her request, made three sperm donations the more conventional way—at the clinic where Suleman arranged in vitro fertilization. Good Morning America has not yet released the identity of the man.

6:57 PM, February 22, 2009  
Blogger TMink said...

Harold wrote: "...get some insight into broken "familiies' under slavery and anti-black conventions for so many years in America and you will see clearer."

Harold, the further the black family has distanced itself from slavery, the worse the symptoms blamed on slavery have become.

This makes no sense. Slavery was an abomination, but the black family from 1950 knew some things that the black family in 2009 has forgotten.


7:27 PM, February 22, 2009  
Blogger Roci said...,2933,498129,00.html

This just keeps getting stranger. As if low birthweight and a psychotic mother weren't enough, it appears the father's genetic donation may be tainted with mental illness too.

What kind of nutjob would sign up for that kind of punishment?

12:28 PM, February 23, 2009  
Blogger Cham said...

This sperm donor isn't doing much to win my sympathy. From the best I can tell he meets a woman whom he thinks is married to someone else. She doesn't have a job and is on disability from the state. She tells him she needs his sperm so she can have babies and he agrees? 14 kids later and now he wants to "help". This guy has no clue. If the state has to take these kids from the parents, I wonder if it can sue for negligence.

2:27 PM, February 23, 2009  
Blogger TMink said...

Roci wrote: "What kind of nutjob would sign up for that kind of punishment?"

I think you answered the question with the use of the term nutjob! 8)


3:28 PM, February 23, 2009  
Blogger Cham said...

I'd like to assume he's not a nutjob, I'd like to know the reasons why he offered his sperm to Nadya Suleman. That's information we'd all like to know.

3:47 PM, February 23, 2009  
Blogger TMink said...

"I'd like to assume he's not a nutjob"

Good on you Cham. I appreciate your optimism and hope you are right.


4:04 PM, February 23, 2009  
Blogger JG said...

Now I see that Octo-Mom has an offer of $1 million to do a porno film.

She would also get fully paid medical and dental insurance for the entire brood if she enters into a contract for more movies.

6:26 AM, February 25, 2009  
Blogger Scout said...

Any movie she "starred" in would just have to have a James Bond theme!

11:26 AM, February 25, 2009  
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