"Fatherlessness can sometimes be a result of the mother's choices."
Finally, a mom who is starting to get it (via Glenn Sacks):
There is still a long way to go for women to understand how much children need their dads, but it's a start.
I share this journey with readers because I know men aren't always the only ones to blame when Daddy isn't a part of his children's lives. Women have a larger role in that than we'd like to admit -- before and after conception.
That means single women need to shoulder some of responsibility for having unprotected sex with the wrong men, especially those who have no history of making investments in their other sperm donor deposits.
And women of divorce need to lose the anger so our children don't become unintentional pawns in a game to prove how much we don't need a spouse to survive. At times, a man's character, life circumstances or domestic violence keep children from having access to their father. Sometimes, though, women just need to get out of the way.
There is still a long way to go for women to understand how much children need their dads, but it's a start.
posted by Helen at 5:52 AM
20 Comments:
My niece, who is 20, is expecting a baby girl probably by tomorrow. The father already has a 2 year old son whom he cannot support because he's a loser who can't get a good enough job. She chose him knowing all of this.
Pretty good stuff. I would only disagree with "unintentional pawns." In my experience and observation, there's plenty of intention.
When I read these things I'm always reminded of an episode or 20/20 or something which showed a teenage girl crying and asking her mother why her mom would only let her talk to her father on the phone for a maximum of 20 minutes a day. The mother's response was a completely self-centered, "Let me tell you why I divorced your father."
Except for potential violence/abuse, this is of no concern to the child. But this mother was intentionally using the daughter as a pawn and harming the daughter much more than her ex-husband.
I routinely have conversations with parents about this issue. Usually it is mothers, but then it is usually mothers who bring their children to see me. It goes something like this: "Having a child with that person may have been the stupidest thing you ever did, but you did it. Now you have to put up with that while your child loves that bastard (or bitch as the case may be.) Now you need to accept this and if you love your child you will do everything in your power to see that they have a loving, plentiful relationship with the person you broke up with. Welcome to the life of a divorced parent."
Some people fire me, most recognize the truth of what I am saying and start to work on their attitude.
Then there are the majority of people who just act out their post breakup anger at themselves by screwing over and up their children. It is sad, but I look on it as job security.
Trey
Trey - good for you for telling them the truths they don't want to hear. My father was an abusive alcoholic and my parents divorced when I was quite young. My mother had plenty of reasons to bad mouth my dad and he more than deserved it, but she never once did. I never even overheard her saying negative things about him. As my brother and I grew older we realized what kind of person he was. Today I have nothing but respect for my mom for handling that extremely difficult situation in the way she did. It's too bad more women don't go that route.
I've spent the summer trying to protect myself, my home and my property from a gang of teen boys from the next neighborhood over who clearly have no parental supervision and have been creating anarchy and terror over my quiet peaceful neighborhood by being destructive, noisy and breaking into yards, cars and homes. The boys become teens and the parents or, more likely, the parent decide they no longer can control their child. The result is that if the kid goes elsewhere to inflict harm - well, out of sight out of mind. School starts this week, thank God.
Despite joint physical and legal custody, and the fact that I'm paying 1/2 of all of my kids expenses, my ex-mother-in-law has on numerous occasions said things to my kids like "You're poor mother works so hard, don't you ask her to buy you that. You're father should buy you that. It's about time he steps up to the plate." And on other occasions has said, "Your father is a fat, lazy b*tch." And once when she got worked up over something completely not related to me exclaimed, "...and shit on your father!"
The mother-in-law is frustrated because her marriage disintegrated in what should have been her golden years. The father-in-law just walked out and wants little to do with her. So her anger spills over into her kids, and then my wife decided that she would either control me so that what happened her mother wouldn't happen to her, or that I just had to go. I became no good in just about any other way. (Except for my income, which she still wanted to have... and the assets until the kids were 18 at least... but that's a comment on another post. ;-)
Despite being almost 4 years apart, she still reprimands me for being a bad father and tells our mutual friends lies about me.
My kids come to me with more stories because they think it's unbelievable what gets said, and they see it for what it is... uncontrollable bitterness from a couple of selfish woman who have managed to ruin their own lives and can't get back at the men that they want to blame for their own problems.
When I moved out and granted the divorce that she wanted, I said, "OK, well, you're wish had been granted... now you have the opportunity you've wanted to have your perfect better life without me." She's more miserable than ever... and she still blames me. And when the kids are grown up and want nothing to do with her because she's so mean... that will somehow be my fault too?
Sparks,
Be glad that your children have the emotional intelligence to see things for what they are. Many kids do not have this ability and believe the negative things that gets said about their father (or mother, whatever the case may be). You are lucky to have such wise kids! Obviously they have learned a lot by watching how much you care to know that the negative comments do not ring true.
When I married my wife she had 3 from a previous marriage. He had alcohol and drug problems. I NEVER bad mouthed him in front of them. It wasn't up to me to decide what they thought of their father. That I left up to him.
Good article. I wish that point could be understood by more people.
Cham
Hilarious--
You could always turn that " Lord of the Flies" /" The Birds " scenario of male hooligans run amuck into a "Summer of 42" memory...
The key here is that-- men "are not ALWAYS the ONLY" cause of women raising children alone.
Its pathetic when things are so warped that so obvious a statement is taken as a breakthrough. She concedes nothing-- men are still being blamed prima facie for ALMOST all cases of women raising children alone. Thats absurd.
Having been the child of a woman who was definitely at fault in disallowing even a father figure, I have a lot of anger and distrust regarding women. My mother, who gave everything over to her "self", ignoring anything but her wants, desires, and "independence", was what has become a typical "modern" woman.
She chose wrong, most of the time. Marrying five times, divorcing all but the last (who committed suicide), divorcing some of her poor choices wisely, due to various forms of abuse and neglect, divorcing others simply because she really could not handle being committed or having expectations placed upon her or having impossible expectations not met.
I have grave doubts about women. I see them as fickle, reckless, and emotional. I see them unfettered by propriety, seriousness, or equal treatment. What they want is everything they had when marriage was good without any of the baggage (including children, having to run a house and home, or being expected to be wifely in any way).
My dating life has not changed that opinion. I know there are "good women" out there. I have seen and known some of these. For the most part, they are women who are married, happily, with children. It makes me think that women are lead to be good by marriage and children, by living within those confines, and choosing to be giving. Until a women is wed and begins living that life, however, a man can never be sure if she will be right. Call it the rotten egg syndrome of feminism.
And though a man has an obligation to lead, he has no capacity to "...make the horse drink" (rightly or wrongly, a bit of both, legalistically I suspect). Society and law has disallowed much of what has been needed and used to ensure a strong family. By abrogating much of what men have traditionally done to a triple set of options (government hand outs, quotas, and societal disregard for marriage and family).
So many women are now married to Uncle Sam, he might as well just be muslim. Even in the military, single mothers are everywhere, detracting from the services actual purpose and hindering it's capacities.
This cannot all be laid at the feet of women. Men have allowed it, the government and corporations for their own purposes have pushed it, and pop-society knows nothing else at this point. Beyond, the ability of a man to support a wife has been undercut. The family unit is being officially, through taxes and "education", and unofficially, through social dissidence, disfavored. I think most of this is due to a disregard of faith by those who rule. The lack of faith in a God who will provide means that a population (from men with God, to animal without God) that "needs to be controlled". Hence, an a attack on the family is a means of lowering "production rates".
It, however, doesn't work. Otherwise we would not have an illegal immigration problem. Oh well, socialists never will understand unintended consequences when they ban forethought, reason, history, and such.
And when the kids are grown up and want nothing to do with her because she's so mean... that will somehow be my fault too?
Of course it'll be your fault. You pee standing up, dontcha?
Personally, I reject such nonsense - I happen to pee in the upright position, myself - but it is what passes as critical thinking in some circles.
The father of a family I know has a long wrap sheet, almost all related to theft. He's back in jail. The kids want to visit their father in jail. He may be a lousy father, but he's their father.
Also, for your consumption:
http://entertainment.timesonline.co.uk/tol/arts_and_entertainment/books/book_extracts/article4448371.ece
That's exactly it Helen. I just continue to be as great a Dad as I can with the kids and keep it positive and make sure that I encourage them love their Mom and her family. Though sometimes it's hard for me to do that when I'm being trashed.
I learned of some of these comments when the kids got chatty with my own parents one day. They started talking about how their other Grandma wasn't very nice and out spilled the quotes... We all went speechless. The kids laughed about it as if it was all totally silly and ridiculous that she would say such things. They found it to be comical. Thank God for that!!
I just said, "That's not true!!" And they said, "We just looked at her and frowned, and then a little while later she said 'Don't tell anybody that I said that... not even your mother.'"
My parents were feeling devastated about it, but I told them, "Please just continue to take the high road with this and keep all of the comments about their mother as positive as you can... In the end, it will pay off for us in that the kids will have better role models in us."
There isn't anything I can do about it. I've talked about this in the past with my ex, but it continues and just gets worse since her life isn't working out so well post-divorce. And if I let her know that it bothers me, she's likely to do it even more...
Musings wrote:
When I married my wife she had 3 from a previous marriage. He had alcohol and drug problems. I NEVER bad mouthed him in front of them. It wasn't up to me to decide what they thought of their father. That I left up to him.
My wife had two sons from a previous marriage. Her first husband cheated on her and his family berated her to the point where she attempted suicide. Still, dispite all odds we found each other and fell in love. We're still in love 25 years later, too!.
When her sons came to live with us, she made it a point to tell them that they had to respect me. A lot of parents undermine the step parent by always siding with the kids. I did my best to be a good father and consider them my sons, not stepsons. At the same time, I never bad-mouthed their father to the boys and still haven't to this day even after he died (following two more marriages - loser!).
Doom wrote:
I have grave doubts about women. I see them as fickle, reckless, and emotional. I see them unfettered by propriety, seriousness, or equal treatment. What they want is everything they had when marriage was good without any of the baggage (including children, having to run a house and home, or being expected to be wifely in any way).
My dating life has not changed that opinion. I know there are "good women" out there. I have seen and known some of these. For the most part, they are women who are married, happily, with children. It makes me think that women are lead to be good by marriage and children, by living within those confines, and choosing to be giving. Until a women is wed and begins living that life, however, a man can never be sure if she will be right. Call it the rotten egg syndrome of feminism.
Yes, Doom, there are good women out there just as there are good men. All I can offer you is the hope that you'll find one. I urge you to treat the women you date as good unless they prove they aren't. If you go into a relationship expecting the hammer to fall on you at any moment, you're likely to cause the very thing you fear. Seriously, good luck and I hope the best for you.
Just came across this today, thanks to someone's link:
She's happily married, dreaming of divorce
Wow, papabear
Published in O-- Oprah's magazine, huh
Pathetic woman-- sad , actually. Making the personal, the political-- typically means imaging everyone else is having your problems. Sometimes they are, most often they aren't.
But someone at Oprah's magazine felt this would resonate with their readers-- which tells you a lot about the staff at O and their readers.
Adults that choose to raise boys and girls with no father or no mother involved strike me as more hideous than some racist trying to prevent their child from contact with minorities. The differences between the sexes are far more fundamental and important than the differences between any of the "races." Having an adult role model of both sexes is necessary to become a healthy adult. It's possible to minimize the damage from an absence of a role-model, if you try very hard, but I don't see how a rotating lineup of "uncles" and "friends" even approaches the benefit of a mediocre father and mother.
Gee, DADvocate, all you could disagree with in S. Renee Mitchell's column in The Oregonian was that remark about mothers turning children into "unintentional pawns" in her war against their dad? Wow. You are generous-to-beyond-a-fault to women, sir.
Ms. Mitchell's column was heavy with attempts to minimize the responsibility (and culpability) of women while never giving up on her habitual slurs against men. For example, her "sperm donor" snark is a dig against men that thoroughly omits the reality that where there's a "sperm donor" there's a hungry-for-sperm woman eagerly sperm soliciting. She's no victim, she got exactly what she wanted. Yet that "sperm donor" slur Ms. Mitchell uses implies that the man is solely to blame for Ms. Baby-Rabies' situation.
It's not that I don't get it, as feminists and other woman-firsters are prone to say. It's that I'm not buying it.
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