Does Uttering the Word "Uterus" Really Clear a Room?
I typically don't like to follow blog squabbles too much but Eugene Volokh, who usually keeps his head above such things, Ann Althouse, and Ann Bartow, a "feminist law professor," have a rather heated discussion of women's menstrual periods. I won't go into the specifics (I am not entirely sure what they are--if you want to know, follow the links) but the patronizing and sexist statements from Ann Bartow regarding Eugene asking women how they felt about menstruation caught my eye. Eugene mentions the statements and seems puzzled as to what he did wrong:
Oh, and then there's this from Prof. Bartow: "One thing I've learned is that if you want all the men to leave a room at breakneck speak, just uttering the word 'uterus' will sometimes do the trick" (my emphasis). And Eugene's response: "Huh, never seen that happen, but maybe I just hang out with the wrong crowd."
And apparently if anyone wants to know how women feel about their periods, they better do a full research project, including asking women in the Women's Studies Department to help according to Bartow's advice in response to a commenter at Is That Legal?:
Wow, so now for a lousy blog post, you are supposed to do a lit review and gather data from others in the field rather than just ask blog readers what they think? Sounds a little overboard, but I'll play your silly game. I happened to have done this exact research when I talked with and evaluated 137 women and their instructors at the College of Liberal Arts and Human Ecology for my PHD dissertation entitled, "Angry Temperament and Locus of Control in Young Women with and without Prementrual Syndrome."
And what did I find? That a vast number of the men were sensitive and supportive to the women in their lives who had PMS symptoms. Rather than clearing the room when their significant other talked about PMS or menstruation, in my study, a full 42% of the women with PMS felt men were sensitive to their PMS. Even 29% of the women without PMS saw men as supportive during their menstrual period but many (38%) did not discuss it at all compared with 85% of the PMS group sharing their symptoms and concerns with men in their lives. So, to sum it up, even if a woman has severe PMS, 42% of the men in this study were supportive and helpful. Hardly evidence of men "clearing the room when the word uterus was uttered."
Maybe Ms. Bartow should take her own advice and do a literature review and talk with experts on men's responses to women's menstrual periods before she makes such sexist statements like she did about men clearing a room when the word uterus is used. But then, that would probably be too much to ask of a "feminist law professor" who probably thinks her "feelings" make her an expert on every subject.
I will leave the last word to this insightful commenter-- Jim Hu at the VC who echoes my sentiments exactly in this quip: "Maybe it's just me, but I'm guessing that saying 'Feminist Law Professor' is more likely to clear a room of men than 'uterus'."
Oh, and then there's this from Prof. Bartow: "One thing I've learned is that if you want all the men to leave a room at breakneck speak, just uttering the word 'uterus' will sometimes do the trick" (my emphasis). And Eugene's response: "Huh, never seen that happen, but maybe I just hang out with the wrong crowd."
And apparently if anyone wants to know how women feel about their periods, they better do a full research project, including asking women in the Women's Studies Department to help according to Bartow's advice in response to a commenter at Is That Legal?:
Well here's the thing, Patrick: There is a whole lot of diverse and interesting literature that has been *already written* that could bring Eugene up to speed a whole lot more effectively than the commenters at the Volokh conspiracy, if he was actually sincere about educating himself about menstruation. And I'm pretty sure UCLA has at least one library. It even has a Women's Studies Department, not that I would ever expect Eugene to think he could learn anything from the faculty there.
Wow, so now for a lousy blog post, you are supposed to do a lit review and gather data from others in the field rather than just ask blog readers what they think? Sounds a little overboard, but I'll play your silly game. I happened to have done this exact research when I talked with and evaluated 137 women and their instructors at the College of Liberal Arts and Human Ecology for my PHD dissertation entitled, "Angry Temperament and Locus of Control in Young Women with and without Prementrual Syndrome."
And what did I find? That a vast number of the men were sensitive and supportive to the women in their lives who had PMS symptoms. Rather than clearing the room when their significant other talked about PMS or menstruation, in my study, a full 42% of the women with PMS felt men were sensitive to their PMS. Even 29% of the women without PMS saw men as supportive during their menstrual period but many (38%) did not discuss it at all compared with 85% of the PMS group sharing their symptoms and concerns with men in their lives. So, to sum it up, even if a woman has severe PMS, 42% of the men in this study were supportive and helpful. Hardly evidence of men "clearing the room when the word uterus was uttered."
Maybe Ms. Bartow should take her own advice and do a literature review and talk with experts on men's responses to women's menstrual periods before she makes such sexist statements like she did about men clearing a room when the word uterus is used. But then, that would probably be too much to ask of a "feminist law professor" who probably thinks her "feelings" make her an expert on every subject.
I will leave the last word to this insightful commenter-- Jim Hu at the VC who echoes my sentiments exactly in this quip: "Maybe it's just me, but I'm guessing that saying 'Feminist Law Professor' is more likely to clear a room of men than 'uterus'."
posted by Helen at 10:23 AM
94 Comments:
Right, like there's anything useful to be gleaned from the neoMarxist "Womyns Studies" indoctrinations centers, other than postmodern BS masquerading as scholarship.
Or, maybe it's a feminist law professor uttering the word "uterus," there by signaling a coming feminist rant.
There are coded word and phrases, that when spoken by a particular person in a particular circumstance, means "forget rational discussion, I'm going off!" Example: Last week I was talking to a lady about why she hates Walmart. She started off her comments with "In a free society..." I knew immediately any further discussion was a complete waste. Kinda like Rosie saying, "Answer me, yes or no..."
Women's Studies Department?
We need a Men's Studies Department where I can get tenure for writing tedious papers about the history of logo placement on NASCAR vehicles.
Hey, I once carpooled with three pregnant women (one was my wife). The things I heard then I still can't get out of my head (it it wasn't the best environment to first hear (and then ask about) episiotomies, for instance). Anyway, now hearing the word Uterus or Menstruation has not effect on me (though I flinch a little wondering what might come next).
anonymous 12:37:
I don't blame you. I once went to a pregancy class two weeks before my due date and the discussion was on all the horrible things that would befall a woman once she had a baby including but not limited to hemorroids, horrid stretch marks, gut-wrenching pain etc. I kept waiting for all of the terrible things I had heard about to occur. They never did so I quit listening.
I'd read the initial correspondences. Bartow's response to Volokh's original post is snide and condescending.
e.g.
I think Eugene needs to be educated gently and incrementally, so the first thing I’m going to do is send him a copy of “Are You There God? It’s Me, Margaret” by Judy Blume. Then, when he seems to have grasped the thirteen year old perspective, in a decade or so, I’m going to send him a package of Always and a bottle of Pamprin, and urge him to enroll in an introductory course in Women’s Studies.
I suspect that her subsequent justification, that Volokh has insulted the institution of Womens' Studies, is a rationalization after the fact. She's a professional bigot who forgot to lead with the theory and went right to the condemnation.
Just ask me why my son is an only child, and I'll clear a room for you like Atlas Moving Co.
No stretch marks? How did you manage THAT? I cracked like an overwatered Tomato.
Going to my wife's midwife appointments and then watching my daughter being born pretty much inured me to anything she could 'say'...if I didn't run screaming from the room then there's nothing that could chase me away.
and oh I don't want to get started on Women's Studies...
Sarah W.,
I did not mean to imply that all pregnancies are easy or trouble-free, they are all different. Yet, the instructor in the class I took made it sound as if all pregnancies were this way, not just some. I went into the class feeling confident and happy and left wondering when the horror would begin. I can't help but think that it might have been best not to tell all of the expectant moms that their bodies were going to hell very soon. It just isn't true for everyone--so why suggest it is?
The woman's obviously a sexist bigot, and there's no reason to answer her.
Hey, I'm a man. Uterus. Fallopian tube. Cervix. Ovary.
I still haven't cleared the room.
Seriously: what a pompous, bloviating bigot. This is the sort of woman who long ago made most other women decide that feminists are stupid. Which she undoubtedly blames on men because (A) men are always bad in her world, and (B) the idea that she or her fellow misandrists might have had something to do with it instead is simply unthinkable.
My Mother was once asked by my sisters why she had no interest in joining NOW or the feminist movement -- despite her strong belief in sexual equality. Mom said: "I'll think of joining NOW when they grow up -- which won't be any time soon."
Prof. Volokh & Dr. Helen are grown-ups. Bartow is not. Bartow is stuck in the narcissim of adolescence. Seems to be a prerequisite for tenure in the social sciences, near as I can tell.
Dr. Helen's comments remind me of some of my mother's other aphorisms:
"Don't think with your feelings;" and
(To my sisters) "If you want to be taken seriously, then think & act seriously -- and pull your own weight."
Bartow could have used some time with my Mom.
When a general conversation turns to uteri, I leave the room -- or, at least, back away slowly. I've got a uterus myself, but don't regard it as a conversation piece.
Heh. Nothing like publishing results from your dissertation to bring the hammer down on bloggers. What I mean is, it's nice to actually have done a well-researched dissertation on nearly the exact topic which is discussed. Pretty much everyone who discusses these sorts of topics won't bother to look into it scientifically; and i'm not sure they should - science is best left to the professionals imho.
Excellent post, plus it was so well-written and funny that I laughed out loud. Thanks!
I can't claim that I have ever seen a room clear when someone spoke the "U" word. But I distinctly remember a college class I attended being rapidly unmanned when the guest lecturer began to speak and show visual aids about vaginal warts and how they were a symbol of the patriarchy.
I think all the men failed the quiz on that part of the course.
unfortunatly, or fortunatly, i am a student of everything, so i could go on and on and on about uterine walls, the mucal linings, ad nauseum (sometimes literally).
there are times when certain topics should not be discussed, unfortunatly a lot of the modern feminists, think because they have a uterus, or that another woman has one they are all sisters against the patriarchy. they use this idea that say this word and men will run, to denigrate men, to make them into wimps who are queasy.
sgt dad you mother sounds like my mum,
TO: Dr. Helen, et al.
RE: So....
"Oh, and then there's this from Prof. Bartow: "One thing I've learned is that if you want all the men to leave a room at breakneck speak, just uttering the word 'uterus' will sometimes do the trick"" -- Prof. Bartow, as cited by Dr. Helen
....should we just say, "Eeewwwwuuuu!"
I've more interest in discussion of things found in the damp dirt under a half-buried rock. But I'll talk about it if someone insists on bringing it up. However, I'd advise them to offer me a good brandy. Then I can talk more 'liberally'....so to say.
Regards,
Chuck(le)
[I've studied abnormal behavior for years and I still don't understand women. -- Dr. Sigmund Freud, probably after a wee too much brandy]
Interesting study, but way to misinterpret the statement completely.
Men can be simultaneously sympathetic and not wanting to hear about the details. Anything involving the word uterus sounds like details to me.
If she's clearing rooms by saying uterus, it sounds like she's creating a hostile work environment.
You're a woman and you want to clear the men from a room? Get your girlfriends together, have some drinks, and start talking openly about your sex lives. Most of my friends have a "my wife had her friends over once and ..." story.
...clear a room...
My wife Sandra, during her former marriage, was a childbirth instructor, and her closest friends were likewise typically childbirth instructors, midwives, and RNs. One day, she had a close friend (RN/midwife) visiting from out of state, so they had a few other mutual friends come over and spent the afternoon doing a 'birthout', that is, showing slides and videos of their own deliveries (kids they had given birth to) since the last time they had all been together.
Sandra's then-husband happened to come home in the middle of all this and walked into the living room just in time to see a wall-sized perineal shot of one of his wife's friends, just as her baby was starting to crown.
He quickly cleared the room. :-)
But I daresay that if someone had merely uttered the word 'uterus' to him, he would have looked back at the person and so, "And your point is?"
Incidentally, Sandra says that she and a few of the other women started having 'sympathy contractions' just watching the films and slides.
I think Prof. Bartow is a few generations behind in her assessment. Sandra gave birth to her last two (of five) children at home, in northwest Provo (Utah). Her parents happen to be over help her pick strawberries right at the end of her last pregnancy (which was back in 1983). At some point, Sandra realized that the on-against-off-again backaches she was feeling were actual contractions (back labor). She told her parents that she thought she was in labor, at which point her father said, "Well, I have to go to Idaho", got into his pickup, and did just that, leaving her and her mother staring after him until they both started laughing. ..bruce..
Why is it that Women's Study Departments are the only Departments at Universities in which the result of "research" is always known before the research is conducted?
Mattthew writes If she's clearing rooms by saying uterus, it sounds like she's creating a hostile work environment.
If that's all it took to create a hostile environment, my job would be nothing but dealing with lawsuits. :>)
I don't particularly care for any discussion of anyone's body parts. When I taught Old Testament classes to college students I always dreaded the inevitable question: "What is circumscision?" Don't these parents teach their children anything?
"One thing I've learned is that if you want all the men to leave a room at breakneck speak, just uttering the word 'uterus' will sometimes do the trick"
Well, only if you pull her finger at the same time.
Anon 5:25 -- That was friggin' funny.
Personal tale. While contracting in Chicago, a particular Marcie .... started talking about her recent delivery in the middle of the work area (big bullpen type, maybe fifty desks worth). Not just general "it was hard" or such, but where the doc's hands were, what happened when, dialation problems, etc, etc, etc. Went on forever.
I have absolutely no doubt that she would have filed complaints if a guy had started talking about his sex life.
What the hell gives some women the idea that this is an appropriate work-place conversation?
"Uterus" clears a room? How the heck did I ever go into ob/gyn?
These things are women's magic. I will not speak of them.
I had to do a senior research project presentation that included the words vagina, uterus, and cervix. Uterus and cervix I had no problem with, but the word vagina made me a little uncomfortable in front of all my classmates and professors.
Know why I'm not a "feminist"? Because they're angry, resentful, bitter and just as gender-biased. I don't need to join a "movement" to work on equality between the sexes. I can just, you know, treat the sexes equally.
Too funny, Bugs! I know that you were joking, but my husband likes that "mystery of womanhood" to remain a little more mysterious. He knows what he needs to know, and is able to hold discussions with me when it's relevant. But otherwise, he really, truly, feverently does NOT want to hear his female coworkers talk about their cycles and PMS issues in his presence. He's not their husband or gyn dr. and it's just, "Please! TMI!"
Sheesh, the male employees don't sit around in a mixed group and talk about their prostates. (If they talked about their penises in a mixed group at work, they'd get a complaint lodged in HR.)
Having been a feminist (I'm semi-cured) for about 30 years, I suspect the overt sexism and hostility on the part of feminists on this subject derive from active self-loathing. I never had kids because I've always been repulsed by the idea, basically. I thank God I am not in the majority!
I don't know about "uterus" or worse clearing the room of men but it sure clears me. So does any discussion of childbirth, any operations in general, and just the mention of "The Vagina Monologues" (I cannot express how repugnant I find the concept) or the latest fad according to Drudge and Rush, "Designa Vaginas." EWWW. Obviously I am doing what boomers do best: refusing to grow up. ;-)
I am very happily married, however, and enjoy all aspects. I'm just not a female cut out to suffer and brag about it. (I spent many, many years suffering monthly in silence.)
One more thing. As a teen with athlete friends who often went long stretches without periods, I was always told by Experts in women's magazines how dangerous it is to women of childbearing age not to have periods. When did that change?
Just remembers this while reading the other comments. I was present for the births of my three youngest children. (Husbands weren't allowed in delivery rooms when my first was born.) I videotaped (held the camera myself, not someone for me) my last child's birth. And, it was a Caesarean.
No, the word "uterus" doesn't bother me. Looking at one does make me a little squeamish though.
My kids came along a after dadvocate's, I guess. I was right there, the quarterback receiving the football every time. Even cut the cord. Fascinated throughout the whole thing every time. Uterus? I ain't a-scared.
Shoot, fought my way out the day I was born myself. And like most men, been fighting to get back in ever since. And every male has heard that one. Fess up.
/Fen
Nicely done Helen.
artdeptgirl: Know why I'm not a "feminist"? Because they're angry, resentful, bitter and just as gender-biased
Spot on. I'd be interested in studying Ann Bartow types to see what psychological patterns are behind their mental disorders. There must be a common thread.
Anonymous said...
Why is it that Women's Study Departments are the only Departments at Universities in which the result of "research" is always known before the research is conducted?
Anon, you are certainly correct about the 'research' done in the Womens' Studies departments. But they are not the only departments where the results are a foregone conclusion. For many in academia, the important thing is to get your name on journal articles, books, and grants. Whether or not it actually makes a contribution to human knowledge is irrelevant to many.
Going back to Menstruation...
My hubby seems to track my period more than I do. He recognized before I did that 'I'm feeling run down today' was missing my period and pregnant instead of my period.
Same with my brother-in-law to his wife.
It's not the word "uterus", it's the thin keening edge of rage that does it.
Dr. Helen, you're my hero. Honestly.
Like I could even begin to leave this entry without leaving a comment, or else I'd be accused of "leaving the room over the word uterus"!
My wife and I are very open about her cycles. I try to be supportive by doing little things, like making sure she doesn't feel obligated to our normal exercise routines (cycling, karate, etc). When she seems a little tired, I run interference with the kids, so she can rest. Support also goes beyond the actual period, since she has a past history of anemia, I try to keep an eye on her energy level and add iron rich foods to our diet to help her bounce back. I used to just nag her about following up with her iron pills. Now I just do it naturally via food.
Personally I don't see why that is a big deal for any guy to do. It's just something you would do for a friend going through that. My friend just happens to be my wife.
It looks like a clearcut example of bending the facts to suit the prejudice.
I'm with seneca the younger... the "keening rage" although it isn't always keening... so does anyone know why 'uterous' has this effect? Because bringing up such a thing in most circles is a sign that you are about to head into "you can't know anything about this..." argument, and it will turn out badly.
It's true that as a guy I know nothing of the cycle, pms, or pregnancy from the inside... what I know is the effects. If the conversation is not about medical conditions per se, then it is undoubtadly about the gender divide, so why torture yourself.
Seems like EV also got himself headlong into the "guys are so simple, and they don't understand women are so complex..." argument.
uh, yeah, we get it...
A combination of statements by "anonymous 5:07 P.M." and "bock the robber 4:35 P.M." are how I feel about global warming at the present time. Although this is not the thread for that.
Feminists of all types can hate men as much as they want. I just can't bring myself to feel the same way about women. Two of my three wonderful children are (now) young women. Bold, beautiful, bright. And they have always had boyfriends.
Feminists have been yelling so long and so loud that I can't hear them anymore. Makes me want to just hold the newspaper higher at the breakfast table.
With all do respcect to Glenn, but academia, as I've learned in my blogging, is dominated by narrowminded kooks.
Anon 10:36
That may be self preservation. A wise man learns to discern between those times when he should stand his ground, and those times when he should throw chocolate and run.
Re men in the delivery room, my husband was present for my children's births. The childbirth class, required back in the day if he was to be in the delivery room with me, made him a little queasy but he didn't faint or hurl in the delivery room. I don't "get" that cutting the cord thing that seems to be in vogue these days, though. Is there supposed to be some symbolism about it?
hmmmm. having some difficulty thinking up a scarier beast than a "feminist law professor". (an "activist IRS agent", maybe?) what saves the day is the fact that said "professor" is obviously a twit who's never spent too much time with a man/men. (naturally, being a law professor & all, that hasn't stopped her from making broad, smearative [of *course* that's a real word!] commentary on that which she knows not: men)
but, amazingly, she was almost sorta close about what'll clear the room of males of every age. no, not mentions of "uteri"..... just turn the TV on to a tampon commercial. ("extra absorbent! cute little 'wings'!") it's exactly the same effect '3 stooges' movies have on women: repellent.
Hey anon 3:57, I'm a woman and I LOVE the 3 Stooges. Yes, I know I'm the exception but I think they are the kings of slapstick. I don't care for Jackass though (got to keep some female cred)
I love the concept of a feminist law professor clearing the men from a room!
I'd say that, for the most part, men know a lot more about female physiology than women know about male physiology. But then, men for the most part, know more about female physiology than male physiology. Men do not clear the room at mention of uterus or anything else connected to female physiology.
Were there is a 'clear the room of men' is in repeated discussion of female physiology stuff ... saying things that have been said many times before. That's boredom, not lack of interest or disgust or anything else.
I can't believe I've just read all that nonsense. Thank Allah am not a woman. Women have way too many issues, down there.
On my blog I did post about a case of a 10 year old girl, and how menses is a sign of maturity and its nonsensical to put a age restriction on when a girl can have sex. All girls mature at different times. That something which partly made me interested in the topic.
I don't see the point why a woman would talk about such issues of periods and such. I can understand using examples and explaining it from a perspective of trying to show others that girls mature at different ages and there should not be an age limit on when a woman can have sex with a man.
If the girl is physically mature even if she is 9 years old, I don't see why that is a major issue if a man of say 40 had sex with her.
Anon 3.57:
"naturally, being a law professor & all, that hasn't stopped her from making broad, smearative [of *course* that's a real word!]"
Smearative. I like it. I'm sure it's a perfectly cromulent word.
Pat Patterson:
"I think all the men failed the quiz on that part of the course."
But they were going to anyways, right?
A room can be cleared by starting a conversation about your anus as well. I find that when I meet new people at social functions and start talking about mine, they generally walk away.
Years ago, I attended a workshop where the topic of abortion came up. When asked if anyone had moral objections to abortion I raised my hand (I have the same moral objection to the death penalty by the way). A self-described feminist made the statement that she hated it when a man told her what she could or couldn't do with a pregnancy. I came back with "Ok, so it is alright for a female to tell you the same thing?" Which of course elicited an angry "No!" Which led to my final comment: "So, it really has nothing to do with men saying it, it has to do with you being a sexist."
Anon 10:36 said:
That may be self preservation. A wise man learns to discern between those times when he should stand his ground, and those times when he should throw chocolate and run.
LOL!
If the girl is physically mature even if she is 9 years old, I don't see why that is a major issue if a man of say 40 had sex with her. -Sona
In the west, we call people who beleive such things "child molesters" and we put them in prison.
Maude Lebowski: Does the female form make you uncomfortable, Mr. Lebowski?
The Dude: Uh, is that what this is a picture of?
Maude Lebowski: In a sense, yes. My art has been commended as being strongly vaginal which bothers some men. The word itself makes some men uncomfortable. Vagina.
The Dude: Oh yeah?
Maude Lebowski: Yes, they don't like hearing it and find it difficult to say whereas without batting an eye a man will refer to his dick or his rod or his Johnson.
The Dude: Johnson?
There was a young girl named Regina
Who had a sweet tasting vagina.
Though boys found her quite young
They'd still stick in their tongue
Though it came out with quite a patina.
Credited to some guy.
Ever notice how a feminist will expect a man to be kind and understanding about PMS caused by a woman's hormones, but will categorically refuse to acknowlege the effects of testosterone on the man's behavior? Boys, in fact, will be boys because testosterone will not be denied.
Your reply to sona was much nicer than I was considering, sgt ted.
Helen,
For women who will experience stretch marks, hemmorhoids, and gut wrenching pain (I had two of the three), it is good to know ahead of time that this is normal. For women who don't experience any of that (which is also a normal experience), not feeling gut-wrenching pain is just a pleasant surprise. Maybe if you had read more about childbirth before your class, you wouldn't have been so frightened by the prospect. I found my childbirth class to be okay at the time, and nearly irrelevant when I was actually in labor.
As for men not discussing their prostate... I bet the guys would discuss that topic more frequently if prostate trouble didn't coincide so frequently with impotence. To mention one's prostate may leave your co-workers thinking they understand something sad about your sex life. Women discussing the uterus in the context of childbirth is all about health and things working as they should. I don't think it has to do with the male-female divide.
"A room can be cleared by starting a conversation about your anus as well."
...unless it's a room full of astronomers...
Sorry. I had to.
In re: Prostates. Maybe it's a generational thing. My folks will not discuss anything that lives or happens below the waist without resorting to euphemism and indirection. They sound like Mafia guys who know they're talking on a tapped phone line.
"Hey, you know that problem?"
"What problem? The the problem with the thing?"
"Nah, the other problem. The personal..."
"Oh, yeah. Is that still...?"
"Yeah. Only bigger."
"Marone."
That's Mom trying to talk about Dad's enlarged prostate. Weird.
LOL
"I'd say that, for the most part, men know a lot more about female physiology than women know about male physiology. "
JW, that's no lie! It may be because so many see no real need to learn. People who think it's someone else's job ot give them an orgasm oare hardly going to think it's their job to give someone else an orgasm.
Try this test: ask a hundred women if they know how to give a man an orgasm. How many will just stare in incomprehension, and how many will say something like "Well, he seems to get off alright...(all on his own)"
Thi soges to theis business that thinking that the word 'uterus' would frighten men. A certain (small - thank God) number of women are sexphobic, because they never separate from their mothers, and sex belongs to the grown-up world. Boys have to separate from their mothers to be boys - they go out and play in the dirt and track it in, and then eventually when they start to have "dirty" thoughts and act on them, that's just part of being aboy. they cab be shamed, always if they are stupid enough, but they are never as foreign to it on the same level as these few poor women.
So a word like uterus is going to have a lot less shock for the general run of men than it will for some women. The same is true fr menstruation . Some women are truly ashamed of menstruation. And if they are really screwed up, they prject their shame off onto men and assume men are even more uncomfortable than they are with all this stuff.
Then there is another level of being screwed up, the level where you really think an English-speaker is going to have a visceral response to a clinical word like 'uterus' when the word for that organ in real Englsih is 'womb' and only a sickey would hear any negative connotation. You have to be an academic to be that clueless.
Re: Anonymom 8:56
As for men not discussing their prostate... I bet the guys would discuss that topic more frequently if prostate trouble didn't coincide so frequently with impotence.
You bring up a good point. Issues that might infer impotentence aren't as threatening to women when discussed in mixed company. Now, if a man was discussing his testicles, seminal emissions, or other normal, healthy male reproductive issues in a positive fashion in mixed company, the women might take offense. This discussion the midst of female coworkers, he might lose his job.
Yet men are expected to be "sensitive" and listen to women's discussion of ovaries and uteruses in a social setting with interest.
bugs!
Anon 12:59
One small correction. Substitute the word "would" for "might" in the last two sentences of your first para.
A man discussing seminal emissions at work...eewww. I have never--never--heard women discuss vaginal secretions at work. Nobody--men or women--brings up anything that might make listeners imagine stains in underpants.
>Does Uttering the Word "Uterus" Really Clear a Room?<
Not really, personally I find women talking about their weight the ultimate put-off...whether they be proto-anorexic waifs, of normal BMI or in the 'fart and give us a clue' category.
Still, this reminds me of when my son was born by caesarean 10 yrs ago. I photographed the whole thing, the bit where the doctor pulls the uterus outside and cleans it off elicited the obvious comment from me "I suppose you’d call that a womb with a view!"
The delivery team rather liked that one.
Nick - South Africa
Ha!
Almost forgot about this one:
The man who's comfortable with menstruation.
I think it is a matter of context. If my mother started talking about someone's uterus, I would be fine with that.
If one of the attorneys here started talking about her uterus, I would not be able to excuse myself from that meeting fast enough, because there is no good way for that conversation to end. I don't need to know, I don't want to know, and I am unlikely to be sympathetic to what has to be either uncomfortably personal or a political rant.
(For context, I work in litigation support at a large Texas lawfirm.)
You have to understand what's going on here, and I think I might have a clue.
About 10 years ago, the younger generation of "hip" feminists got tired of being associated with dowdy anti-sex feminists in the MacDworkinite mould who had it that men were always degrading women by trying to peek at their naked bodies.
The younger generation adopted an "embrace the vagina" philosophy, but men still had to be set-up as the enemy somehow.
Therefore, men's nature had to be re-written. Now it happens that men are actually repelled by women's bodies and view them with disgust; and the vagina was something men actually FEARED. As a result, saying something like "uterus" is a huge gross-out, sending men into a stampede for the exit. Ha ha, what fools men are...
So 10 years back, men were obsessed looking at women's bodies. But today they're supposedly terrified of women's bodies. That these are contradictory statements matters not: The idea that men are a bunch of fascistic assholes remains constant, and the particulars of the argument can change back and forth depending on what makes the woman feel good about herself.
That sounds about right. Secretly, we are afraid of women's sexual power over us, which is why we keep trying to keep them down. Also the fact that women can produce life but men can't. Our secret jealousy and resentment over this is certified dogma. Not to mention the fact that we suffer from instinctive fear of women's monthly cycles. Except for Dave Foley of course...
Stuff that only an intellectual could believe...
"Also the fact that women can produce life but men can't."
More certified dogma from people who learned biology in a Jane Austen class.
"Not to mention the fact that we suffer from instinctive fear of women's monthly cycles"
Except that men have exactly the same hormonal cycle, but the cycle is daily rather than monthly.
Well, that explains this bloated feeling. I thought I was just getting fat.
Oligoncella -
Our secretary (remember secretaries?) told me about the loss of her mucus plug, not long before delivery. Helpfully, to make sure I could really visualize it, she whipped out a bottle of LePage Rubber Cement, drew out a big lugey from the bottle, balled it up a bit into the right shape, held it up for me to see, and then explained that hers was just like that, except that the LePage Rubber Cement mucus plug was not marbled with blood, the way hers had been.
I don't think she was trying to be offensive. It's just that EVERYTHING to do with the Most Sacred Pregancy was automatically fascinating to everyone else on earth. If you've got a seriously infective dose of narcissism to start with, pregancy can surely exacerbate it.
"Well, that explains this bloated feeling. I thought I was just getting fat. "
It's all water gain. Go take a leak.
UTERUS!!!!!
I haven't done any research or performed any studies, biased or unbiased but I have been around the block a few times and my experience tells me that men do not shy away from conversations about women's reproductive organs, issues and problems. Actually, men are usually pretty interested in the topic and will ask many questions when the topic comes up. I have yet to see a man put his hands over his ears and stomp his feet when the subject comes up.
I did have a girlfriend - as it happens an American girl who hails from Maine - who rather 'over shared'. She felt the need to describe to me the texture, consistency and volume of her menstrual discharge on each day of her cycle; in rather colourful detail.
Candidly, I did think this rather fell into the 'too much information' category.
The relationship didn't last; not specifically because of this, but this may have been symptomatic of a certain emotional disconnect between us. She was …is?...also a painfully sexually repressed Catholic, I still find the dichotomy a little odd.
Nick - South Africa
anon,
Ew.
Bugs
Hey Nick, maybe she was trying to get rid of you.
Seems to have worked.
tomcal...
At least you were choosing only to talk about your anus. Most of the people I have met at large social functions seem to actually talk out of their anus.
Perhaps he's refering to women's propensity to chat casually amongst themselves of their uteri, vagani, fertility cycles, menstrual cycles, feminine product consumption, and so forth.
Men hardly ever strike up equivalent conversations, even among their bestest of buds.
Once at a cocktail party, in which such a female conversation was openly taking place, I pointed that out and then to illustrate my point, I waved my father in law over and asked him bluntly, "So, Bill, how's the 'ol prostate?"
It was pretty much one of those moments where the room goes dead silent for a beat, as people swivel their heads to locate the nearest emergency exit.
Men use their bodies to get things done, women's bodies use them to get things done. In this area, women just have more to talk about than we do.
By the way, have you ever noticed how one of your testicles is smaller than the other?
bugs....
Which one?
Now just a minute, BR - that's getting way too personal!
bugs....
Unless you type standing up, you are one of the funniest people on two cheeks. I scour Dr. Helen's site searching for your posts.
Thanks for your great sense of humor, insight, and overall great posts. I long ago lost count of the times you've made me laugh out loud. And think.
You are part of what makes it great fun to come here.
Oh, stop!
Maybe I should start my own blog. Then we could all sit in front of our keyboards laughing as the world goes straight to hell.
Meantime, I'll stick with Dr. Helen and her motley crew. She's smart as hell, the commenters have a range of experience I'll never know, and the trolls aren't half as nasty as they are on some other sites.
Bugs,
I agree that you should start your own blog although, then I wouldn't have your wit around here as much and that would be a shame.
Thanks. Don't know if I could deal with the trolls, though.
Just so I'm clear on this - we're not allowed to track them down and kill them, right? Something about that First Amendment deal or cruelty to animals?
Bugs,
Yeah, something like that...
bugs...
Thanks. The check came UPS NDA, just like you said.
Kidding!
Junior, you nut...
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