Sunday, April 29, 2007

Hillary: Bush-Lite?

I read the In These Times article on "Why Women Hate Hillary" that is circulating around the blogosphere--my link goes to the The Hillary Project blog since Drudge linked to the original source and seems to have shut it down. Anyway, after reading this article, I must say, I have a newfound respect for Hillary, particularly after reading the following:

All of this frames many women’s reactions to Hillary. If she’s a feminist, how could she continue to support this war for so long? If she’s such a passionate advocate for children, women and families, how could she countenance the ongoing killing of innocent Iraqi families, and of American soldiers who are also someone’s children? If it would be so revolutionary to have a female as president, why does she feel like the same old poll-driven opportunistic politician who seems to craft her positions accordingly?

Maybe women like me are being extra hard on Hillary because she’s a woman. After all, baby boomer women couldn’t be “as good” as men in school or the workplace; we had to be better, to prove that women deserved equal opportunities. And this is part of the problem too. We don’t want the first female president to be Joe Lieberman in drag, pushing Bush-lite politics. We expect something better.


Joe Lieberman in drag, pushing Bush-lite politics? Maybe I was wrong to dismiss Hillary as undeserving of my vote. She might be worth another look.

Update: For those who are newcomers to this blog or for those who just don't get my weird sense of humor, the above is sarcasm.

94 Comments:

Anonymous Anonymous said...

Will someone please explain to me how it is that the intimate psychic experiences of baby boomers are communicated to the hive mind?

This woman's analysis is worthless as anything more than evidence of the narcissism which typifies progressives in the US.

1:47 PM, April 29, 2007  
Blogger Sissy Willis said...

I'm in shock at your analysis. Having followed Hillary through all the good years, the lean years and the in-between years, I've always found her to be a craven, power-crazed woman whose only principle is me, me, me. But beyond my deep, instinctive distrust of all things Clinton, the I-know-what's-best-for-you-little-people scolding tone of her every presentation tells my gut everything it needs to know.

5:26 PM, April 29, 2007  
Anonymous BrianNYC said...

"...the first female president to be Joe Lieberman in drag, pushing Bush-lite politics."

Call me biased, living so close to the Connecticut border and all, but doesn't Joe Lieberman have much nicer legs than Hillary?

More like Greg Luzinski in drag.

5:52 PM, April 29, 2007  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

I have no problem respecting her. It's trusting her that I can't manage.

6:05 PM, April 29, 2007  
Blogger Helen said...

Sissy Willis,

You realize I am being tongue in cheek with this post?

6:37 PM, April 29, 2007  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Oh please. Hillary's no more craven than Joe Biden, somewhat more experienced than Barry Obama, no more calculating than John Edwards and -- please don't shoot me -- no more lucky to have benefited from her relationships than George W. Bush, grandson of a senator and son of a president.

I still don't like her, but some of these arguments against her based on "who she is" rankle me. It's more identity politics gone mad.

Vote for her or don't based on her record, her positions, and your gut. I probably won't choose her but it won't be because she's a politican. There's nothing else running.

6:53 PM, April 29, 2007  
Blogger Sissy Willis said...

Egad. I'm a fool. Sigh. But hey. At least I got noticed. :-)

7:09 PM, April 29, 2007  
Anonymous Chuck Pelto said...

TO: Dr. Helen, et al.
RE: Hillary Clinton...

....is foremost, always and simply a chimera.

People will look for her to be whatever they want her to be for them, but she will always be for herself; simply, foremost and always.

Regards,

Chuck(le)
[Politics has become a trade. Most [eople get into it to make a living. And all they hope for is that the system will last their lifetime.]

7:09 PM, April 29, 2007  
Blogger John Clifford said...

"Why Women Hate Hillary" is a joke of an article, and the joke is on the pseudointellectual 'elites' that are quoted. They may be educated, but they surely aren't intelligent, and rather than being representitive of the vanguard of American womanhood they come across as a bunch of whiny, insecure children. What Hath the Women's Movement Wrought? These crybabies couldn't hold the petticoats of a REAL woman.

And, speaking of Hillary (ugh...), the problem with her isn't that she is dull, unappealing, and uninspiring. It's that ambition is all. Like her husband, she will say anything to anyone at any time to become president. Unlike her husband, she really intends to remake America in her image.

Bill Clinton, as smart and charismatic as he is, was a waste of a man, who wanted to be President to overcome his shame of who he was and where he was from, who spent his time dreaming of how great a president he would be instead of doing the things that would have made him a great president, and who resents his successor solely because W has had a more historical term. Which of the Cardinal Vices is lacking from the man?

Hillary, on the other hand, means to govern well... but she means to govern. She has an agenda, and no Rose Hill records, White House travel office, or law will get in her way. That is what is truly scary about Hillary.

7:09 PM, April 29, 2007  
Anonymous Chuck Pelto said...

TO: John Clifford
RE: Don't Forget....

"She has an agenda, and no Rose Hill records, White House travel office, or law will get in her way. That is what is truly scary about Hillary." -- John Clifford

...Vincent Foster and Ron Brown.

Regards,

Chuck(le)
[Dead men tell no tales....to the FBI.]

7:15 PM, April 29, 2007  
Blogger Peg said...

Took me a while last night to get into the site with the article; I think Drudge's link brought it down. Anyway, what a WASTE of my time. I'm a female babyboomer and these silly, 60s retread ideas just grate beyond description. I'm just not buying what that writer is selling. I don't care if Hillary is the biggest hawk on the U.S. political horizon (which I don't for a second believe); she's untrustworthy, a shrill, dislikable termgant, an unreconstructed 60s radical in conservative pantsuits, married to a serial cheating narcissist, and that's just for starters. I could write a book but will spare everyone. Just know that Hillary is one of the main reasons I went from being a wacky lefty feminist in 1998 to a card-carrying conservative Republican (which I remain).

Fred could wipe the floor with her. Here's hoping.

7:23 PM, April 29, 2007  
Blogger Cham said...

I love Hillary.

7:37 PM, April 29, 2007  
Anonymous Chuck Pelto said...

TO: All
RE: See....

"I love Hillary." -- Cham

...what I mean by 'chimera'?

Regards,

Chuck(le)
[Another one is born every minute. -- some saleswoman]

7:42 PM, April 29, 2007  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

All of this frames many women’s reactions to Hillary.

It doesn't frame mine. Her mammary glands and internalized sex organs don't defacto qualify her as either unique or vote-worthy. She's a candidate just like everybody else and her gender should not be an issue, just like it shouldn't be for a man.

I voted for her husband because he was the candidate that appealed to me most. I voted cross-party, btw. But his wife strikes me as nothing more than an opportunist and I am offended in the extreme that there is some sort of underground - or not so- expectation that I am going to vote for her simply because she's a woman, in some ridiculously playground all-of-us-girls-have-to-stick-together mentality. The candidate I vote for needs to earn my vote, and her harping on about her gender as some kind of extra special qualifier is NOT going to do it for me.

Gender bias is gender bias, no matter which direction it runs. It has no business in politics.

7:57 PM, April 29, 2007  
Anonymous Chuck Pelto said...

TO: Anonymouse
RE: Yeah....

"I voted for her husband because he was the candidate that appealed to me most. I voted cross-party, btw." -- Anonymouse

...no 'gender bias' here.

Regards,

Chuck(le)
P.S. Thank YOU women of America, like Anonymouse here, for giving us 8 years of one of the worst presidencies in American history; from the Waco Massacre to Wag the Dog with Monica and being totally unprepared for 9/11.

It was women like YOU, Anonymouse that gave US all of that.....

8:08 PM, April 29, 2007  
Blogger Eric said...

Well, I had zero respect for Hillary before I read this post. But now I have twice that much!

8:28 PM, April 29, 2007  
Blogger M. Simon said...

The Rs got quite a bit from Bill - NAFTA, welfare reform, Regime Change Iraq - and still hated him.

Makes no sense.

However, Hil is an unreconstructed socialist (having given up her Goldwater roots).

Foreign Policy wise she is the least bad of the Ds running. Personality wise the closest I can come is: another Nixon.

She might do OK with a Republican Congress. With a Dem Congress we are in for hell.

8:33 PM, April 29, 2007  
Blogger NahnCee said...

My question for those who would vote for Hillary (or who quote Hillary) is this: Do you think you would be getting Hillary Clinton as President, or would you be getting Bill Clinton telling Hillary what to do?

I have yet to have anyone reply that they'd be getting Hillary alone as President. Which is fine -- let's just be clear that the deal being offered is *really* Bill-telling-Hillary-what-to-do.

So what difference does it make what Hillary says or does now?

8:45 PM, April 29, 2007  
Blogger Jeremy said...

Heh, it will only be a matter of time before they start calling her a "neoconservative".

9:14 PM, April 29, 2007  
Anonymous Chuck Pelto said...

TO: M Simon
RE: Exqueeze Me?

"The Rs got quite a bit from Bill - ...Regime Change Iraq..." -- M Simon

When did Bill Clinton overthrow Saddam Hussein?

What year was that?

Or, better still, what alternate Universe do you hail from?

"....and still hated him." -- M Simon

It is against my religious convictions to 'hate' people. Probably not against yours, I'll wager.

Still and all. I don't hate Mr. Bill. I just think he was the wrong man in the wrong place at the wrong time. And he made a hash of just about everything he touched. Not to forget Monica, Jennifer, Kathleen, Mary, etc., etc., etc.

To drive the point home, I'm willing to bet that historians will, generally, agree with me in 20 more years....once the 'dust' has settled.

Regards,

Chuck(le)
P.S. I was living in Denver in the 90s. And I recall how many times Mr. Bill 'visited' Denver then. I had to drive around his rendezvous point, on occasion; the Secret Service blocking access to the hotel. Lights burning, at Oh-dark-hundred, in the 'presidential suite'.

That was until Jennifer moved out of town. After that, he didn't come anywhere near Denver as much.

9:15 PM, April 29, 2007  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Hey! I thought only sexist men hated Hillary (and liked Obama, those bastards!) while poor, shy women silently rooted for their feminist hero.

Now women hate her too?

Must be tough to be Hilary.

9:29 PM, April 29, 2007  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

I don't think Bush or Lieberman ever announced that "We're going to take things away from you for the good of the country." That little pledge of hers was straight out of 60's radical land.

9:29 PM, April 29, 2007  
Blogger Adam said...

@Chuck Pelto

Chuck,

Regime Change in Iraq became US policy in 1998, under Clinton. Congress even passed the Iraq Liberation Act at the time.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Iraq_Liberation_Act


Bush only implemented this policy, but the policy itself dates to Clinton.

9:41 PM, April 29, 2007  
Anonymous Chuck Pelto said...

TO: Adam
RE: 1998

"Regime Change in Iraq became US policy in 1998, under Clinton. Congress even passed the Iraq Liberation Act at the time." -- Adam

As I've heard mentioned elsewhere....

Talk is cheap.

Regards,

Chuck(le)
[Deeds. Not Words. -- Credo 22d Regiment of Infantry, US Army]

P.S. All Mr. Bill was, was cheap and useless talk.

9:45 PM, April 29, 2007  
Blogger Peg said...

Chuck(le), I couldn't agree with you more, on every word. Incidentally, I voted twice for that narcissist and his megalomaniacal wife. I'm atoning for that for the rest of my life, believe me.

We betrayed (former) libs are the most unforgiving of Bill and Hillary of all.

9:48 PM, April 29, 2007  
Anonymous Chuck Pelto said...

P.P.S. Last I heard, 22d Infantry, of which I once commanded a company, was in the thick of it in Tikrit.

So, Adam, do you think doing things is better or worse than just passing 'resolutions' about them?

As we say in the Army, "A good plan, well executed is better than a great plan never implemented."

Or, if we look at the great inaction of the Clinton administration, I think this sardonic axiom applies, "There is no substitute for 'inaction'."

9:51 PM, April 29, 2007  
Anonymous TMink said...

I cannot get past her idea of health care reform. imagine the WHOLE country with health care like the VA. I can get behind insurance reform, but health care reform with her at the helm frightens me.

Trey

10:13 PM, April 29, 2007  
Blogger DiscerningTexan said...

OK...I know Glenn said he was under the weather...have you been stealing his meds again? ;)

We are still talking about the person who brought us the White House travel office, the Rose Law firm and Whitewater, tight with Vince Foster, throwing objects in the White House, missing FBI files and (drum roll) Single Payer National Health Care Plan. AND who wants her hubby back in the WH.

I'm not a psychiatrist like you are and I love the webcast. But this works for me on the firing range: Breathe. Four seconds in. Hold 4. Four seconds out. Hold 4.... (repeat)

(ps - If ALL the Republicans are out of the race, I could see it...)

10:59 PM, April 29, 2007  
Anonymous Chuck Pelto said...

TO: Dr. Helen, et al.
RE: Back On Topic

"If she’s such a passionate advocate for children, women and families, how could she countenance the ongoing killing of innocent Iraqi families, and of American soldiers who are also someone’s children?" -- Susan J. Douglas

Douglas' credibility is in the 'off-balance position' over a toilet bowl with this statement.

She's so concerned about 'innocent' 'children'....

...what's her position on abortion?

If she's for 'abortion on demand', her argument just got flushed down the sewer, as she is a blatant hypocrite. And a rather short-sighted one at that, if she could not see THAT one coming.

Regards,

Chuck(le)
[Where there is no religion, hypocrisy becomes good taste.]

11:03 PM, April 29, 2007  
Anonymous Chuck Pelto said...

TO: Discerning Texan
RE: Home, On the Range...

"....this works for me on the firing range: Breathe. Four seconds in. Hold 4. Four seconds out. Hold 4.... (repeat)" -- Discerning Texan

...on the street, at the mall, in class, wherever....

...I believe in the 'quick kill' technique. No breathing required. Bring the weapon to bear and squeeze when you feel you've got the target 'lined up'.

Regards,

Chuck(le)
P.S. Reminds me a bit like, "Use the Force, Luke."

But it works. I hit the target more frequently that way than if I TRY REAL HARD to aim.

Then again, I got to the point that I could hit a quarter on-the-fly, in Basic, using that technique.

11:10 PM, April 29, 2007  
Blogger Pyrthroes said...

Hillary Clinton is a blackmailer, extortionist, mob crony and tax cheat, afflicted with narcissistic Affective Personality Disorder (APD), without a grain of principle or even common sense.

Ask MzBill her "tax policy": What limits on tax-and-spend does she acknowledge? (Answer, None.)

Clarify the Wife of Bill (aka The WOB) on national security: "War-- what war?"

How says the WOB on Social Security ("not my problem"), on energy independence ("oil bad, nuclear bad, free markets bad"), on Supreme Court nominations ("women, we must have women! I'm a woman [aren't I?]-- think of the fun you'll have").

With luck, MzBill might emerge on a par with Millard Fillmore. On 'tother hand, she'd more likely join Big Turnip, Binky Scudderbumps, her devoted hubby, who until MzBill crumbles her cookies remains the first personally corrupt Chief Magistrate in U.S. history.

Draining the American polity into this cesspool would have consequences up to and including the death of Federalism, never mind Vince Foster and Ron Brown analogues. Also, Hillary has fat legs.

11:19 PM, April 29, 2007  
Blogger Paul said...

Now now, just because her handlers make sure you never ever see a shot of her from the rear and seldom from the waist down is no reason to make assumptions.

11:31 PM, April 29, 2007  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

"If she’s a feminist, how could she continue to support this war for so long?"

If she's wholly obsessed and consumed by feminism, she should turn in the direction of Crawford, Texas to praise the man who made night-and-day differences in the lives of Afghan women.

Maybe that's a bit much.

Cincinnatus

11:37 PM, April 29, 2007  
Blogger Douglas said...

I was very disappointed in her non-answers to questions at the recent debate. I do not want to spend the next four/eight years parsing non-answers.

I would love for her to be the most uncompromising wartime president in the history of the United States, but alas, that's not in our timeline.

12:17 AM, April 30, 2007  
Blogger Bob said...

Hillary's simply the female Nixon. She has the same cold, misanthropic personality, the same persecution complex (vast right wing conspiracy, indeed) and the same flexible attitude toward legality.

12:20 AM, April 30, 2007  
Blogger DiscerningTexan said...

I get my shooting advice courtesy of "The Bulletproof Mind" by Lt. Col. Grossman. It's about being able to shoot in a real life or death situation: if you practice using the breathing technique and make it a habit, when the time comes when you HAVE to hit the target, your heartrate will not be so high that you will be in what he calls "the danger zone". I highly recommend this series.

But for the sake of the good Doctor, I was just hoping it might help to clear some Hillary-induced cobwebs...

Cheers!

12:22 AM, April 30, 2007  
Anonymous Sheela said...

Woah. I'm new to this blog and just read through this thread. Seems like a lot of people here think the Clinton administration was a total disaster. People, what are you experiencing under the current administration? Are you piling on Hillary to distract yourself from GWB?

12:53 AM, April 30, 2007  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

It's party before country with the Republicans, sheela - which is why their campaign infrastructure is dazzling and their legislating is a disaster.

This is the worst administration ever to hold the office, and Iraq will reverberate for generations to come - but he's their disaster, dammit.

1:21 AM, April 30, 2007  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

The topic is Hillary, and the Clintons in general, not Dubya. Can we stay on topic for once? No, I didn't think so. It's much more convenient to change the subject. Everything is Dubya's fault. Lather, rinse, repeat.

Yawn. And the sockpuppets arrive right on schedule. Yawn again.

1:26 AM, April 30, 2007  
Anonymous sheela said...

Okey doke. Enjoy beating up on Hillary. I'll be heading back to the reality based world now.

1:38 AM, April 30, 2007  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

You might as well vote for Hillary. No use wasting your vote on a Republican candidate.

To chuck, who has nothing better to do apparently. 6000 thousand plus Americans dead on Bush's watch. Worse than Bill by a long shot. The only thing George W. Bush deserves is someone to spit on his grave after he dies of old age and senility.

3:31 AM, April 30, 2007  
Anonymous Mark said...

I think I'm horrified by the venom here. Did I miss some memo that said that vitriol was healthy or constructive for things. Quit setting up strawmen and argue real merits. While you're at it, find some origional thoughts and quit parroting out echo chamber responses.

I'm not voting for Hillary (I'm voting Ron Paul or Libertarian if he's not nominated), but I find the gleeful hatred disheartening. Have you no sense of decency? have you no shame?

4:31 AM, April 30, 2007  
Anonymous Tim said...

John Clifford: smoking dead on the mark!

There is so much to distrust about the Clintons that the argument in favor of either of them is entirely overwhelmed for anyone who's objective about the decision. The only people (in my experience) who support Hillary's candidacy are those who are blinded by partisanship and the glare of star power celebrity and the sexist women who admit that they will vote for her simply because she is a women.

P.S. The sexist issue is largely a wash. A reliable poll indicates that largely a little over 1/5 of the electorate (almost exclusively female) will vote for a female candidate simply because she is female, while almost exactly 1/5 of the electorate (almost exclusively male) will vote against a female candidate simply because she is female.

7:46 AM, April 30, 2007  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Voting for Hillary gets this country one thing and one thing only - Two Clintons in the White House - AGAIN.....

8:29 AM, April 30, 2007  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

The article says:
"Ironically, it is Gen Xers, those between 31 and 42, who give her the most support."

Uggh. This GenXer doesn't support her.

From the first comment at the link:
{ “I’m not sitting here as some little woman ‘standing by my man’ like Tammy Wynette. I’m sitting here because I love him and I respect him, and I honor what he’s been through and what we’ve been through together.” And then there was this ...} You know the rest.

My thoughts align with the Nixon comparisons, best exemplified by the phrase "persecution complex".

John Clifford's 7:09 is a great summary: "Hillary, on the other hand, means to govern well... but she means to govern. She has an agenda, and no Rose Hill records, White House travel office, or law will get in her way. That is what is truly scary about Hillary."

By the way, the 'prinicipled person with a persecution complex' traits are also what I find truly scary about John McCain.

I have to avoid them in myself, when under extreme stress: I know what's best when I really do not, and do redirect my self-righteous anger to a misdirect target; reconsider myself.

Hillary is scary because you don't know when you'd get (i) her manipulated by Bill, as in Nahncee's comment, or (ii) her stubbornly on a principled stand but a very wrong position, like single-payer healthcare.

McCain is scary because of (ii), stubbornly on a principled stand but a very wrong position, like Campaign Fiance Control-my-speech.

8:51 AM, April 30, 2007  
Blogger Sissy Willis said...

The downside of an Instalanche: It brings out Sheelah and her fellow travelers of the "reality-based world."

8:51 AM, April 30, 2007  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Sissy Willis, you weren't the only one initially confused. Me fool too. Oops, I didn't catch Dr Helen's sarcasm at first, probably because I'm a newer reader.

8:51 AM, April 30, 2007  
Anonymous TMink said...

Mark, people HATE Hillary. I am not sure why, there are people much more deserving of contempt than her, but people just hate her. And of course, some just love her. Neither group is measured or prone to making factual statements. Her detractors stoop to conquer and her sychophants see her as the second coming of Christ. So when she is mention, at least on this blog, posters crawl out of the ionosphere to post, then disappear again. Like partisan ghosts.

She is the most polarizing figure in American politics I think. Reminds me of George Wallace with higher positives.

Trey

8:59 AM, April 30, 2007  
Anonymous betsybounds said...

Well, years ago I heard Brit Hume give what I have always thought of as one of the few really definitive descriptions of Ms Clinton, on the David Brinkley Sunday morning show: He said she "believes she is morally gifted." That about says it all, I think. Yikes.

9:11 AM, April 30, 2007  
Anonymous Chuck Pelto said...

TO: DiscerningTexan
RE: Breathing Techniques

"I get my shooting advice courtesy of "The Bulletproof Mind" by Lt. Col. Grossman." -- DiscerningTexan

Okay.

"It's about being able to shoot in a real life or death situation..." -- DiscerningTexan

Anything like being in the infantry?

"...if you practice using the breathing technique and make it a habit, when the time comes when you HAVE to hit the target, your heartrate will not be so high that you will be in what he calls "the danger zone". I highly recommend this series." -- DiscerningTexan

I'll look into it.

RE: Back On Topic, for the Good Doctor

"But for the sake of the good Doctor, I was just hoping it might help to clear some Hillary-induced cobwebs..." -- DiscerningTexan

I'm a firm believer in breathing techniques to calm oneself down. Found them to be very useful for dealing with stressful situations. And yes, I see what you're saying about helping to hit the target.

They also help in dealing with real idiots when you encounter them in day-to-day life.

Regards,

Chuck(le)
[The one who starts hurling insults first loses the argument.]

9:48 AM, April 30, 2007  
Anonymous Chuck Pelto said...

TO: Anonymouse
RE: [OT] Really?

"To chuck, who has nothing better to do apparently." -- Anonymouse

Actually...while your insomnia was working you, I was sleeping.


RE: [OT] Body Counts

"6000 thousand plus Americans dead on Bush's watch. Worse than Bill by a long shot." -- Anonymouse

Seems like you have a serious problem with rememberance. Must be the lack of adequate sleep having an adverse affect on your mental capacities.

3000 men, women and children mass murdered by Islamist fascists, you know, YOUR friends.

3000 American Soldiers died honorably in battle with the sort of people who'd do another mass murder, given the chance and the weapons.

RE: Bush and Senility

"The only thing George W. Bush deserves is someone to spit on his grave after he dies of old age and senility." -- Anonymouse

Seems to me, with your demonstrated mental 'issues' (see above), YOU'RE 'projecting' on that 'senility' business.

Regards,

Chuck(le)
[Now go away, or I shall taunt you again. You silly Leftist knegit! -- A Monty Python Moment]

9:58 AM, April 30, 2007  
Anonymous another mark said...

right-wing political correctness?

10:20 AM, April 30, 2007  
Anonymous Chuck Pelto said...

TO: All
RE: [OT] About Those Mass Murderers....

....Mentioned Above

http://www.comensarations.info/index.php/weblog/listen_to_the_imam/

Regards,

Chuck(le)
[Just because you're paranoid, doesn't mean they aren't out to get you.]

10:22 AM, April 30, 2007  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

The author who wrote "Why Women Hate Hillary" should speak for herself and not all women. I for one happen to be a woman who likes Hillary. And the fact that she is willing to use military might to defend ourselves against our murderous enemies gives me all the more reason to vote for her. Would the writer be satisfied if Hillary advocated talking to and appeasing our enemies? Yes, like much of the left, she would.

Frankly I'm sick of the Hillary hatred coming from both sides of the political spectrum. Both sides will find a reason to hate her no matter what policies she advocates.

11:45 AM, April 30, 2007  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

BTW, in fairness, I am also sick of the hatred being expressed toward president Bush. There are people far more deserving of this kind of vitriol than Hillary Clinton and George W. Bush. Enough already. Save it for our enemies.

11:50 AM, April 30, 2007  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

"the same persecution complex"
------------
That's because she IS being persecuted, and has been for the past 15 years.

11:57 AM, April 30, 2007  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

This comment has been removed by a blog administrator.

12:00 PM, April 30, 2007  
Anonymous Richard Aubrey said...

A quarter on the fly???

How about a washer, with a little wad of paper in the hole? Shoot out the paper--but not deflecting the washer in its flight. But, to be fair, that was AIT.

12:16 PM, April 30, 2007  
Anonymous Chuck Pelto said...

TO: Richard Aubrey
RE: [OT] That's....

"How about a washer, with a little wad of paper in the hole? Shoot out the paper--but not deflecting the washer in its flight. But, to be fair, that was AIT." -- Richard Aubrey

...pretty good shoot'n pardner.

But my AIT taught me how to blow things up, Combat Engineer.

RE: By the way...

...who's the cretin who posted that potty-mouth stuff immediately ahead of you.

From a psychological perspective, I get the impression that they are 'projecting'.

Regards,

Chuck(le)

12:26 PM, April 30, 2007  
Blogger Helen said...

Anonymous 12:00 pm:

Thank you for your fine and intellectual discussion.

12:55 PM, April 30, 2007  
Anonymous TMink said...

Hey Helen, please consider erasing the Anon 12 post. I could go into why I don't want to read that, but maybe other people will chime in and ask the same thing.

It is not that it was an attack on you, although I do not like that, I just don't like reading the c word very much.

I love reading your blog, I enjoy the people who post here, it is one of my favorites. And I don't want that kind of stuff here.

I know it is not my choice, but I just thought I would post the request so you could think about it.

Have a great day!

Trey

1:07 PM, April 30, 2007  
Blogger Helen said...

Trey,

Done. If anonymous wants to provide such stimulating discussion, he or she can go elsewhere.

1:15 PM, April 30, 2007  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Chuck,

I didn't hold Bush responsible for 911, until it became clear how inept and dangerous this administration is. He would have never been prepared.

One word: Iraq. Okay more, Katrina. Left to his own decisions Bush appointee's Harriet Miers would be on the Supreme Court instead of Roberts, and Brown would still be doing a good job at FEMA. Word has it, even Republicans think Gonzales is over his head as AG. Bush is at best a dunderhead. He let the ego maniac Rumsfeld micromanage the war. Now they're complaining the Democrats are trying to do the same -- ha ha, kettle, black, pot.

On topic.: Vote Hillary because she's a woman, or not.

When Helen doesn't make sarcasm a tool in her posts, I'll be inclined to adhere to the Right's definition of political correctness, and keep your delicate dispositions in mind, so as not to offend anyone.

P.S. It’s not insomnia. Some people work at night.

8:36 PM, April 30, 2007  
Anonymous Viola Jaynes said...

One of the things I like so much about Dr. Helen's blog is that the discussions are written with respect to other opinions. There are plenty of nasty and rude blogs out there that those fitting that kind of mentality can go visit.

9:49 PM, April 30, 2007  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Don't kid yourself.

A standard for conservative decency is someone like George Will, not Helen.

I wouldn't ask her to change. But let's not perpetrate a fraud either.

She could do worse though: like Tom Delay. A man who nary utters a curse word to be recorded in public, but still manages to be vile.

10:31 PM, April 30, 2007  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Anonymous 8:36 -- you "work at night?"

So why are you posting comments on a blog? Or do you "work" for Media Matters or one of those other Soros fronts?

10:48 PM, April 30, 2007  
Anonymous Chuck Pelto said...

TO: Anonymouse
RE: [OT] Stupid Arguments, Fisked

"One word: Iraq. Okay more, Katrina. Left to his own decisions Bush appointee's Harriet Miers would be on the Supreme Court instead of Roberts, and Brown would still be doing a good job at FEMA. Word has it, even Republicans think Gonzales is over his head as AG. Bush is at best a dunderhead. He let the ego maniac Rumsfeld micromanage the war. Now they're complaining the Democrats are trying to do the same -- ha ha, kettle, black, pot." -- Anonymouse

I can't help it if you're the epitome of what the DA (a 'bulldog liberal') here said is a serious problem with a lot of people today; lacking 'critical thinking skills'. And by 'critical' he wasn't talking about complaining. He was talking about how people don't seem to have two synapses to rub together and come up with logical conclusions.

By the numbers:

[1] Iraq. We've already been over that.
[2] Katrina? A joke of the great state of Louisiana's making. I should know. (1) I came of age there and I'm well aware of how corrupt they do government there. Look at how they, over multiple state administrations, diverted money for levees for gambling interests and other idiocies. (2) I'm something of a Subject Matter Expert in Emergency Preparedness. I used to train State Area Commands, i.e., the state adjutants general and their staffs on such. Did that for 10+ years. (3) Stupid Adjutant General arranged for his only heavy national guard formation, a mech infantry brigade, to be in Iraq during hurricane season. (4) Only a fool would live in a place where every-now-and-then a BIG A-- storm can bury you under water. ESPECIALLY if it could bury you permenantly; New Orleans is below the level of the Mississippi River.
[3] Political appointees? What's the matter. You don't recognize 'bait and switch' when you see it in politics? Baiting the Dhimmicrats with Miers so they'd get all upset and then withdrawing her and inserting Roberts, in order to get Roberts a better chance at passing?
[4] FEMA? They've always had problems. Even under Clinton. I know because I worked with them as described in item #2 (above). They always will. They're a political entity. There are SOME good folk in there, but their leadership, in four administrations (80s-00s) has always been, in my honest opinion, abysmal.
[5] Gonzales? For firing attorneys that were hold-overs from the Clinton administration? They should have ALL been fired the day Bush came into office. As well as Tenet and Freed. Clinton did that when HE took office in '93. Fired the lot of them. And you whine about 8? I'll wager dollars to donuts that if the Dhimmicrats win the White House in '08, whomever sits in the Oval Office will fire ALL the attorneys, outright.

As for Bush being a 'dunderhead'. I think YOU'RE projecting. As I've pointed out (above), you seem to fit the description of the biggest problem a lot of people have, as described by the Democrat DA I listened to last week.

Regards,

Chuck(le)
[Stupidity, adv., Ignorant and proud of it.]

P.S. Enough OT discussion. This thread is about Hillary.

8:45 AM, May 01, 2007  
Anonymous Chuck Pelto said...

TO: Anonymous
RE: He 'Works' at Night

"So why are you posting comments on a blog? Or do you "work" for Media Matters or one of those other Soros fronts?" -- Anonymous

Either that or its a VERY dull job with LITTLE or NO supervision.

Could be a night-watchman.....at some up-scale, hi-tech company.

When I worked for USWEST, managing computer databases, I'd come in at all hours of the night to tweak the system while most people were off of it and find the security guy at the receptionist desk surfing.

Regards,

Chuck(le)

8:52 AM, May 01, 2007  
Anonymous Chuck Pelto said...

TO: Anonymouse
RE: Correction

Stupidity is a noun. Not an adverb. I had not had my coffee yet....

My apologies.

Regards,

Chuck(le)
[There's too much blood in my caffine system.]

P.S. About that Democrat DA here; the one who calls himself a bulldog liberal.

I couldn't help thinking that bulldogs are something that should be kept behind a large, sturdy fence and when let out, held on a close leash.

9:01 AM, May 01, 2007  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

I find it really interesting that folks who mean to criticize or undermine Hillary spend most of their time talking about their hatred for Bill.

Clinton Derangement Syndrome? No, couldn't be.

12:51 PM, May 01, 2007  
Anonymous Chuck Pelto said...

TO: Anonymouse
RE: Poor Target Identification Skills

"I find it really interesting that folks who mean to criticize or undermine Hillary spend most of their time talking about their hatred for Bill." -- Anonymouse

I don't 'hate' anyone. It's against my religious convictions.

I just say he was one of the worst presidents in American history. Up there just behind Lyndon Baines Johnson.

There's something of a difference. Don't you think?

RE: Deranged?

"Clinton Derangement Syndrome? No, couldn't be." -- Anonymouse

Show me where we have multiple commentators or posters or columnists calling for snipers or other assassins to deal with Bill Clinton?

I've got scads of examples of people calling for such about Bush and Cheney.

Let's compare and contrast; quantitatively and qualitatively.

Regards,

Chuck(le)

4:12 PM, May 01, 2007  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Chuck Pelto:

I do not consider that Clinton Derangement Syndrome requires folks to call for his assasination. I think hyperbole along the lines of "one of the worst presidents in American History" qualifies, personally.

Your studied refusal to use the word "hate" is silly semantics and doesn't change the fact.

But by all means, give the names and citations for these "scads".
If you think Clinton has not ever been wished dead, you're hopelessly biased--not to mention willfully deaf, blind and obtuse.

8:44 PM, May 01, 2007  
Anonymous Chuck Pelto said...

TO: Anonymouse
RE: Then...

"I do not consider that Clinton Derangement Syndrome requires folks to call for his assasination. I think hyperbole along the lines of "one of the worst presidents in American History" qualifies, personally." -- Anonymouse

...my fatuous friend, you've got a tin ear, for hyperbole.

And based on THIS....

"Your studied refusal to use the word "hate" is silly semantics and doesn't change the fact." -- Anonymouse

....you couldn't grasp English with a pair of pliers.

Regards,

Chuck(le)
[Stupid, adjective, Ignorant and proud of it.]

9:02 PM, May 01, 2007  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

I think you're being too hard on her. Compared to the doofus we have now she's a blinding ray of hope. She's competent and capable and her husband probably has the best grasp (heh!) of the issues and the best instincts of anybody in politics today. We could do a hell of a lot worse.

9:28 PM, May 01, 2007  
Anonymous TMink said...

Some anon wrote: "Your studied refusal to use the word "hate" is silly semantics and doesn't change the fact.

But by all means, give the names and citations for these "scads".
If you think Clinton has not ever been wished dead, you're hopelessly biased--not to mention willfully deaf, blind and obtuse."

Silly semantics? Check.
Hopelessly biased? Check.
Willfully obtuse? Check.

Mirror mirror anon.

Trey

12:11 AM, May 02, 2007  
Anonymous not Chuck said...

By the way, the attorneys Gonzalez is in hot water for firing were all appointed by the current Bush administration. They are Republicans.

As stated, most new administrations replace the lot of them. The special thing about this situation is that Republican appointed attorneys weren't being "loyal" enough to Bush.

1:20 AM, May 02, 2007  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Why did you link to a conservative website that's bashing Hillary Clinton if you are a believer in her?

Not trying tos stir the pot, I'm just wondering. Your site looks to be a lot more popular than that one so you just gave them a lot of traffic!

3:46 PM, May 02, 2007  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

"Compared to the doofus we have now she's a blinding ray of hope... We could do a hell of a lot worse."

The idea that Mrs. Bill Clinton is going to be the answer to all the problems that the Bushman has caused is like trying to clean a red wine stain on a white tablecloth with dogshi*.

6:55 PM, May 02, 2007  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Good grief, people are stupid (i.e., chuck). I work at night, but I have days off at night and don't have Internet access at work. So, like, I am awake at night on my days off, genius.

8:51 AM, May 03, 2007  
Anonymous Chuck Pelto said...

TO: Anonymouses
RE: Any Time....

...you want to get back on topic, I'll be happy to oblige.

Regards,

Chuck(le)
P.S. Otherwise, why don't we STOP wasting the good doctor's bandwidth and save it for a more appropriate thread?

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