Male Birth Control--on the way?
I saw on MSN that male birth control pills are getting closer to being released to the market. MSN asks men, "Will you use them?" Take a look at the comments, they are pretty entertaining.
posted by Helen at 1:45 PM
70 Comments:
Interesting article. But I think even the potential for male breast growth is a deal killer, and I am not too much more optimistic about a shot in the johnson.
Now the idea is cool, women's hormonal systems are more complicated, and a male pill or patch or whatever would have some real benefits. But I am not sure about anything that makes you wear a bro (or is it breaux) or taking one up the tiny exit.
Trey
Dear Dr. Helen,
Have you ever done any television? I am looking for presenters for a doc series for a well known channel on the future of forensics, and wondered if you might like to throw your hat in the ring. My email is will.aspinall@impossiblepictures.co.uk- please contact me and I will explain more!
Will
Hmm, I can't see men wanting to take pills, can you?
Very nice offer from Will. It should be nice that is what you would enjoy doing!
I see positive and negative from this. Positive that men will no longer have to take it on faith that a woman has taken care of the birth control.
But the negative consequence could be riskier sexual behavior; STDs.
Will I use male birth control in the future? I think it would require an even bigger medical breakthru. How close are they to finding a way to reverse my wee wifey's hysterectomy?
Evan, I think of it in terms of men having more reliable choice regarding their ability to have intercourse without fatherhood. I am not at all convinced that reliable pregnancy prevention is a gender issue.
Trey
i would definatly take them damn the side effects, the side effects of an UNWANTED CHILD, would be so much worse.
anything that gives men more choice, should be applauded by everyone, but i hear all the time, men should be responsible, and yet when we are theres complaints, generally by women, that its not right.
my fiancee wants a tubal, her choice, i may very will have a vasectomy at a time in the future, but its my choice.
men only have 3 ways of birth control, abstinence, condoms and vasectomy. whereas women have 17, (including the variations). is that fair, no, is that equal no,
i say to any man, be protected first and foremost, and make sure your condoms are flushed. make sure there are no pin holes in them.
but anything that gives more control to men, has to be worthy.
Don't flush your used condoms unless you have a plumber on retainer...
i meant flushed clean, i have heard stories of women getting pregnant from use condoms, (sorry i speak in North west english, and flushed means flushed out here)
Dear Dr. Helen,
Have you ever done any television? I am looking for someone to help me transfer $8,000,000 from Nigeria to finance a TV show. All I would need from you is a bank account number...
It seems I already use a highly effective form of birth control: My personality.
:(
D. Reid,
Or maybe "Will" wants me to meet him at one of those deserted houses at the end of a dead end street you see on the crime shows to talk about becoming a star! Maybe I'll be going to Hollywood!
Anonymous 6:11:
That's sad...typically someone who would say something so self-deprecating is a pretty decent person. I bet you are.
My husband is a wonderful man. That said, pregnancy and having an infant always had a much larger impact on my day to day life than his. He would have been content with one or ten children. (We have three.) I don't think I'd necessarily want to trust him with primary responsibility for correct use of the birth control. It isn't that he would intentionally be careless. It just wouldn't be as urgent for him, and I've seen how often he forgets to take his antibiotics on schedule when they are prescribed.
Dr Helen, here is the cast of your new TV show:
CSI Knoxville
Staring:
Dr Helen Smith as Ginger Snap MD
Gerald Butler as her boyfriend Leo Nidas MD
Britney Spears as her shy, strait laced niece Penelope
Anonymous Will as Corkey
Glen Reynolds as Reverend Markos Moulitsas Zúniga
Violent Kids as Themselves
Should I have my people call your people?
mercurior,
Perhaps you should consider finding women someplace different. You know...a place where you can find nice women. Oh, I forgot...all women are evil.
Discussions of birth control might affect me if I wasn't involuntarily celibate.
I suppose this could work in a marriage or other highly committed relationship, but any woman who believes Mr. Right-Now when he insists he’s safe because he took the pill is taking her chances. I haven’t done it, (recently anyway), but I hear that men will sometimes be less than completely honest when trying to talk a woman into bed.
The problem is that the natural male drive is to impregnate as many females as he can. So, a male contraceptive is really running against our human, and even more animal, nature. Not where I would want to be marketing.
Females, having to carry the babies, and in many species, including our own, raising their young until the young can take care of themselves, are naturally much more selective about breeding. And, thus, despite the best intentions of feminism, women are likely to continue to be the ones most concerned about birth control - because they have far more at stake.
Of course, if men were smarter, they would be more selective about where they left their sperm. But we, as a sex, most often think with our small heads when it comes to this. And, so, men are routinely surprised to find themselves fathers, when all they intended was a little innocent sex.
I wouldn't touch anything that has any potential to effect my endocrine system.
ok, anonymous 10.26, for your information i am engaged and getting married this year. she is a wonderful woman, but i have heard and seen so many stories about women poking holes in condoms, about women sooping out a used condom and using the sperm.
luckily my wife to be isnt like all these selfish women who want the god almighty dna replicant. and before you say she doesnt exist, check my blog, and you will see her and me an her dad.
and bruce, arent we more than just instincts, we have intelligence, we have self knowledge, if we didnt every man would be raping every woman. intelligence trumps instinct.
well anon 2.00, lets hope no woman accidentally makes you a father and leaves you with 18 years of support for something you didnt want
Hmmmmm They never seem to mention WHICH of the current human studies they are speaking of. There are two, one hormonal and one protein antagonist. The hormonal one is having trouble as the side effects are so bad that they cannot get men into the trial. The protein antagonist causes irreversible sterility in a small number of patients.
That said, the reversible "plug" "IVD" Intra Vas Device vasectomy will be finished human testing soon (a year?). That one has had so many volunteers that they had to open a dozen or so extra test sites.
The IVD will clearly be the first new men's birth control method and it works well according to what is now known. The question is "What is the sperm production recovery rate after long term use?" That question will not be answered for years.
What bruce hayden says makes sense of something I had difficulty understanding. For all men talk (at least here) about being taken advantage of women in the reproduction department, I've never really had a guy who took responsibility, or frankly any interest whatsoever, in contraception.
I love my boyfriend dearly. But he doesn't want to use condoms. So, the burden is all on me. And he never asks ahead of time if I've got a sponge in or if he can help defer that cost or anything.
That comments thread on msn wins the "Most Enthusiastic Use of Emoticons by People Other Than Teenage Girls" award
Anon wrote: "I've never really had a guy who took responsibility, or frankly any interest whatsoever, in contraception."
We exist anon. Perhaps it is your age or that we guys who do take responsibility are a little boring or something interesting in your attraction patterns, but we exist.
It might be cool for you to find one of us that is not taken.
Trey (quite taken)
Well, if I were single, I would definitely consider it. Although it would be more for the getting-serious part of the relationship probably, because of course it doesn't do anything for STDs. In this day and age, anyone who doesn't put on the raincoat for a one-night stand is crazy. (Evan has a valid concern in that regard.) And after marriage, you and your spouse would probably want to consider your mutual options. The other big users would probably be men who find themselves committed to partners whom they discover are not trustworthy.
el duderino, you are of course right in that the women should not trust the man in that situation. But that pendulum swings both ways. A man would want to use it for his own protection -- not necessarily that of his partner.
Anonymous 8:07, if you were compelled to wear pieces of plastic over all of the sensitive parts of your intimate anatomy every time you had sex, you'd understand the reluctance to use condoms.
i take responsibility for my own actions, i use spermicidal condoms, and i always blow up the condom after to make sure it didnt break, tastes bloody awful but, for my peace of mind and my fiancee's.. its worth it..
and jw in my case the "The protein antagonist causes irreversible sterility in a small number of patients." that wouldnt be a problem, i dont want kids and i know my mind..
the idea that all stds are stopped by the use of condoms, is partly a myth, genital herpes simplex (HSV), chancroid, and syphilis. etc can still be spread, even if you use condoms, if they dont cover the infected area.
so be aware of that as well
Anon wrote: "I've never really had a guy who took responsibility, or frankly any interest whatsoever, in contraception."
I humbly suggest Anon has never dated a) a man paying child support to a woman who didn't tell him he was a father until the child was two years old; b) a man paying child support to a woman who told him she was on the pill but thought that he'd marry her if she was pregnant; c) a man who raised someone else's baby until a DNA test was performed several months after birth; d) any man who watches Maury Povich; e) any man with a fear of having to pay child support for the next 18 years (longer in states where the sperm donor is on the hook for post-secondary education).
This comment has been removed by the author.
helen:
I humbly admit that, as far as I know, I have not gone out with types (a) through (d). I also humbly suggest that those are the exceptions rather than the rule, in terms of the dating pool. So, I think it's not surprising that I haven't gone out with that type.
As for type (e), I'm not sure I understand what you're getting at. Are you suggesting that all of the guys that I dated WANTED to have babies with me? While I am sure that is true of a couple of them, I certainly don't believe it for the rest. So, assuming I did indeed "date" a guy who didn't want kids with me (at least not immediately), then what gives?
I think if you ask around, you will find this is a fairly common phenomenon. Women are the ones taking primary responsibility (including financial responsibility) for contraception. Certainly, I don't tend to engage in casual sex. So, to some extent, I'm sure my partners have not worried too much about STD's. But, again, what about the contraception? I mean, I would think a guy would have to be ridiculously trusting to have sex with a woman without THEMSELVES using SOME form of protection.
As for you, cousin dave. Condoms are a pain? Do you realize the side effects of hormonal contraception? You've already got lots of guys balking here because of the side effects of the male pill. But they sure want the woman to tolerate the side effects. I admit the sponge has little in the way of side effects. And I'm not crazy about condoms either. All I'm saying is-- shouldn't he at least MAKE SURE that I've remembered to use one? And shouldn't he be offering to help with the costs? They are $3 each. Gotta use a new one for each 24 hour period in which you engage in sex. And we're a bit randy. I'm just sayin'.
Anon 6:02 again. My post reflects I think the only answer is that these guys are ridiculously trusting. Just to be painfully obvious, I also suggest the possibility that they are ridiculously self-absorbed and lazy.
but men are told to trust the woman, trust her, and if you dont, then its your fault. i have heard stories about women who say they are taking b/c, but arent, and state that the man neednt wear anything as they are protected, or cant have kids..
so essentially your saying its always the mans fault for a lying woman, for trusting a women when she says one thing but is lying.
by extenstion that must mean dont trust any women. at all, ever.
why is it always the mans responsibility to use protection, women have fought for the right to have birth control, and yet they dont use it.. its always the mans fault i guess for being a man.
Mercurior's fiancée here. Anon 22.26, he has found a woman who is not evil, thank you. Why do most people not want to realise how women can really be? Merc never said all women are evil. He has, like I have, seen many that are. It's better to be cautious, than overly trusting.
Male birth control is a great idea, and most men would use it to protect themselves. Nobody wants to be oopsed. Men should have just as many choices to protect themselves as women do.
Bruce, not all men are just waiting to make those bebes with as many women as they can. That's rather insulting to intelligent men who can think for themselves, and not with their hormones, like Mercurior.
Yes, I DO want sterilisation, I always have. People tell me to make Merc do it, but I say I need to take responsibility for my own body. I cannot make choices for Merc's body, as that is his own.
Man or woman, people need to take responsibility for THEMSELVES; that should be common sense. You don't want to breed, YOU take the precautions to make sure it doesn't happen. Don't bother with, well X gender should do it. Why is this so hard for people to understand???
The question is not how many men currently want such technologies. The question is how many will use them after they are available.
Common sense suggests that if you make birth control easier for members of one sex, more birth controlling actions will be taken by members of that sex.
Hey cadmus: Who said men are to trust women? Did I say that? Hell no I didnt. I may not care for mercurior's attitudes here or those of his fiancee. But her last paragraph above was spot on. I also do not understand why this is such a difficult concept. Ladies? Use protection. Guys? Use protection. I think it's fair to say that, while accidents (or non-accidents) can happen when one party has left the responsibility to the other party, accidents or non-accidents will almost NEVER happen when BOTH parties take responsibility at the SAME time.
It's not even about trust or lack thereof. It's about taking responsibility, instead of pawning off on someone else in the face of MAJOR consequences.
I've learnt my lessons the hard way; and my son is the best mistake I ever made in my life; he is the most important thing in my entire life. Despite the doggy-do I have gotten for the last 10 years for never marrying his mother. I love him totally, completely, unconditionally. I’m potty about him.
My line - We either do the femidoms or I don't ‘do the business’.
The male pill, I'm open to it, but it aint there yet. Oh and I’m 46 and I’ve never had one girlfriend that could manage the pill, not one.
Nick - South Africa
Nick i'm glad youre happy with your mistake. Lots of people wouldnt be.
Lots of men take responsibility for birth control.
And when someone bypasses that protection intentionally, like a woman taking the sperm from a used condom and inseminating herself, that is her fault. It's not the man's fault, the child's fault, or society's fault. The child in this instance should be protected, but the woman who did something like this should not in any universe be allowed to call the shots - she's already shown herself to be supremely dishonest, selfish, and not concerned with the child's welfare. I believe that in most cases even a father that is victimized like thise would want to have some involvement in the child's care and upbringing, and again this shouldn't be controlled by the woman who has already been shown to be dishonest, reckless, and selfish.
If I thought it wouldn't have any adverse effect on his health, I might recommend it to my son.
I have a son and a daughter in college, but it's the son I had to have the serious talk with: "Once the have sex with a girl you have no control whatsoever over whether or not you become a father. Don't have sex with anyone you don't want to be be tied to and pay child support to for the next 20 years."
I found a more reliable method; vaasectomy. Going on ten years and no new kids!
bad penny-
I have a son and a daughter in college, but it's the son I had to have the serious talk with: "Once the have sex with a girl you have no control whatsoever over whether or not you become a father. Don't have sex with anyone you don't want to be be tied to and pay child support to for the next 20 years."
Is that realistic? Given today's modern dating practices that is very limiting and makes it very difficult to determine who you are compatible with. I think now that many men are getting the message to wash out their condoms a lot of the scams can be avoided.
but isnt that a sad reflection of society, as cadmus says, we are told to trust the woman, to beleive what she says, and then if she is untrustworthy, that its the mans fault essentially for not distrusting her enough.
isnt is sad when men dont trust women, and they have to flush out the condoms, or i even heard of some that microwave them, some put horseradish sauce in them, now thats so sad that its even considered by men, it makes and gives the impression that all women are liars, and dont think of the man at all.
but some women dont want to take that responsibility, they would rather be "lazy" and let the man do it.
(why dont you care for our attitudes, because we are both responsible for ourselves, or because we dont want kids brought into this bad world, or because we have genetic problems, that would make any kid SUFFER, or because we care about the planet and dont want to help destroy it, if global warming is caused by humans, then its the over population of this planet and the over use of resources that are to blame)
we take responsibility for our actions, a lot of women in my experience dont they would rather a man do it. and MEN, i still say to you wash the condoms out, you never know when you will come across a woman who just wants a baby and will choose you. as i said men have 1 permanent, and 2 temporary solutions, vasectomy, condoms and abstinence. thats it.
So, get the vasectomy, mercurior. I beg you.
Why in the world would anyone want to have sex with someone that they could not trust? I mean really, as a man, I do not put my privates anywhere that they are not safe! Shouldn't the same hold true for women, don't let anyone in that you do not want your child to call daddy? This discussion seems to overlook that basic premise, that we need to be damn choosey about who we have sex with. Why is that such a difficult concept for us now?
Trey
why do you single me out anon 8.17, its my choice, my decision, and only i can make that, my fiancee wants it for herself. i havent pressured her, but she is being told to get me to have it done..
SHE wants it, for herself, if i want it, then its my choice and i will do it when i want..
.
so i am all for other forms of birth control for men, it gives that power back into the mans control, whereas before, women had most of the power when it came to birth control.
its hard trey to find good decent women, women you can trust, a lot are tarred with the same brush.
Anon 6:02: Do not go making assumptions about me like that. Did I say I wouldn't use a good male pill? No, I said I *would* use a good male pill, if I were still single and in the situation where I needed protection. You complain about the effects of female pills, but the effects of past attempts at male pills were the equivalent of making your breats shrink into prunes, your vagina completely close up, and render you utterly incapable of orgasm. Oh yeah, and you start to grow hair on your back.
In the past I've actually turned down opportunities for sex when it became clear that I would have to use a condom. It's like going to a movie and keeping one eye shut the whole time. It dampens the experience enough that I have sometimes decided that I just wasn't in the mood any more. Had at least one woman who never forgave me for it, either.
I prefer the Big V to contraception. Have your kids, get a vasectomy, game over.
And if you're worried about pregancy before you get married, just don't have sex until you are.
cousin dave:
(1) I didn't say YOU would refuse. I said many man on this post have said they would refuse.
(2) You say what the "equivalent" effects of the male pill would be for women. That's YOUR perspective. Do you know what the side effects of the female pill are?
(3) Let me get this straight. In the past, you told some women that the only way you were going to have sex with them was if they didn't make you wear a condom? Nice, pal. Realll nice.
mercurior:
I single you out because you go on and on about how despicable women are. I don't think this whole poking holes in the condoms or retrieving semen from the condoms happens like you say it does. I'm not saying it hasn't happened a few times. Maybe you saw a story on the UK version of Montel. But that's not real life, pal.
But let's accept everything you say as true. And you have been consistently adamant about not wanting to have children. Then why in god's name have you not had the vasectomy.
Again, you're like a lot of guys on this issue. You're positive you don't want kids and you complain about women defrauding men, but you refuse to do the one simple thing that would solve ALL of your problems.
And, most likely, instead--you leave it to the women to bear this responsibility.
Just do it.
well its about one thing, .. MONEY, i cant afford it at the moment. there is no get it done free on the UK national health, you have to pay.
so you saying i am doing it because i am selfish, is completely false, you have no idea about my life, it all costs money, money i dont actually have, so if you wanted to pay me to have it done i would..
a lot of women are dispicable, which ruins it for the rest of everyone.
http://www.mariestopes.org.uk/uk/vasectomy-how-to-pay.htm
£400 it costs, or $800, can you afford that at the moment, but it is something i am planning for. my fiancee wants her tubal before mind for her peace of mind, and thats £990, or $1900. so it isnt cheap, but its something i have been planning for a while.
mercurior:
Do you know how much the pill costs? About $25-30 per month. And that is not generally covered by insurance. The sponge costs me $3 per sponge for every day we have sex.
No, $800 is a pretty paltry sum for something so serious and vital. An extremely small price to pay in exchange for the peace of mind it will surely give you, in light of the horde of despicable, lying women, all scheming for your DNA.
A depo costs over $120.00 and that only lasts for 3 months. $800.00 is a bargain.
mercurior:
And just to be painfully obvious, in case you fail to extrapolate....
$25 per month is $300 per year. That's not a once, lifetime payment. That's EVERY year.
I took the pill between ages 17-27. At the time I was least able to afford it. For the first couple of years, I was able to get free samples from Planned Parenthood. (Thank god for them.) After that, I was on my own. Do you think a guy was helping to pay for that? Wrong. And that's the story for most women.
Obviously, I would have been taking the pill even longer, except my first husband had had a vasectomy. This was ultimately unfortunate, as we later wanted children together. But it was a godsend in terms of the money and hassle it saved us.
So, you do the math. $300 for the typical reproductive span of a woman.
I suppose if a woman is living with a man and using joint accounts, they are both paying for it. But otherwise, no.
and mercurior, I just checked your link and it says you don't have to pay all at once. You can pay in installments. So, again, what possible excuse do you have for not doing this?
It would make no sense to wait until you're 50 to get a vasectomy. Get it now.
anon 6:41: Stop putting words in my mouth. I did not say that I ever thought about forcing a woman to have unprotected sex. That's you reading something into it. I think you had better check your attitude towards males again -- you are exhibiting some of the very things that are the topic of this thread. What I said was that when it become clear that sex could not happen without the condom, I just decided to give it a miss. And in fact, I had at least one woman who was furious with me and refused to speak with me again because I *wouldn't* have unprotected sex with her! So am I a bash-worthy male for taking responsibility? Should I just do whatever any woman tells me to do, without regard to the consequences for me? With apologies to sofasleeper, I don't want to wind up like that.
And yes, I have been married for twelve years, and my wife was on the Pill for much of that, so I am fully aware of the effects. My dear wife is now off of them because her doctor advised her to, due to her family history. But she says she felt better and her life was less complicated when she was on them.
cousin dave:
You're talking in circles. You can color it however you want. It boils down to the same thing. The woman insisted on a condom and you said, "Well,nevermind then." And the woman in question BY YOUR OWN STORY wanted to have PROTECTED sex. Wanted you to use a condom. If she was angry, OBVIOUSLY it was because you refused to wear a condom.
p.s. cousin dave:
You said, "What I said was that when it become clear that sex could not happen without the condom, I just decided to give it a miss."
Imagine if a woman said this to you. "Cousin dave, if you're not going to have sex with me without condom, then forget the whole thing!"
I can imagine the criticism you would heap upon such a woman. And rightfully so.
Now, who needs to check their attitude about the opposite sex?
anonymous: Since you insist on continuing to twist what I said, I have to conclude that you are one of those man-bashers that we discussed in the Cosmo thread. You bash man for wanting sex, and now you bash me for *not* wanting sex.
For everyone else, here's the short story: It was a woman that I had been dating for a while, but we had not had sex yet. To be honest with you, I wasn't all that into her, which is one reason why it had not happened. But I figured that we would discuss it if and when the time came, and we'd know what we were going to do about birth control at that time.
But one night she got the impluse and insisted that we do it right then. I asked her if she had/used any kind of birth control, and she was evasive. (Not necessarily the Pill either. I've known women who used diaphgragms and sponges, sometimes in combination with spermicide. I've got no problem with any of these options.) Since she wouldn't give me a straight answer, it become clear that I'd have to put on the raincoat if we were going to do it. To be perfectly frank, she wasn't hot enough to make it worth it. I put my clothes back, said good-night, and took my leave.
She called the next day and chewed me out for being insensitive to her desires. It was clear to me that it was her intention to put me on the spot the previous night. She was infuriated that I had refused to play her game. She said some choice words; I hung up on her (she had called me at work), and that was pretty much that. It really wasn't all that much of a loss, honestly.
Well, hell man. That's not at all how you made it sound. I don't have a problem with what you've described. Other than, I suppose I would say this. If you weren't really into her (and it sounds like that was on both a physical and emotional level) why would you be considering having sex with her without a condom? I mean, why would you put that kind of trust in someone you didn't even know that well?
How was it that I was considering having sex with her without a condom? Well, I figured that beforehand we'd have a discussion about birth control and any possible diseases and such, and at some point I might have to make a value judgement. If it turned out that the condom was really the only way to go, and I thought the relationship was worth it, then I might have agreed to that. But she put me on the spot.
Honestly, though I'm glad that it worked out that we didn't... as you point out, I did say I wasn't all that into her, and the fact that we hadn't done it made the breakup easier.
anonymous, why don't you ask your boyfriend to help you pay for your birth control?
Amy K.
Eh, because I don't like to ask for help. It's a personal problem of mine I suppose. I let folks do as they are wont and then, eventually, maybe I reach a breaking point.
I wouldn't take a male birth control pill on a bet. Good old rubbers are ok by me.My wife dislikes the pill and we have used nothing but rubbers for birth control for over 20 years and never had any failores.
Heather; I don't have a plumber on retainer and I don't even own a toilet plunger, but all my used rubbers are flushed down the toilet after they have served their purpose, without any problems.
When I was a young fella we always made a trip to the drug srore to buy some rubbers before going out on a date and we sure used them as the big fear was "knocking up" a girl not so much some "social desease".I guess times have changed and not for the better,
Male birth control pill? Seems to me we already have a very good male birth control option. It is called a condom. When used consistantly and properly it offers effective and safe contraception.
The thing about condoms is well they SUCK! It doesn't feel nearly as good. If they came out with a pill fro men, as long as it's not a hormone, I'd probably take it. Depending also on the side effects. But what really gets me, is they say Marijuana is supposed to make sperm burnout fast. All the studies showing this are conducted here in America which if you ask me makes it an unreliable experiment. I've read numerous studies about the theory and they've all proven it to be a myth, which sucks, cause I'd smoke more pot than I do now if it could be used as birth control.
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