Prayer and Hatred at the Huffington Post
I have to wonder why some sites place a warning on the video of Michael Richard's statements as if people's ears are too sensitive to hear those words but no one places a warning on the Huffington Post when a writer prays for the death of Dick Cheney. Heart attack survivors everywhere should wonder about the cruelty and downright evil that possesses someone like the writer of this opinion piece to wish for the death of someone with heart disease. In my opinion, the latter statements about our Vice President are as bad or worse than those statements by Michael Richards. I wonder why one view is tolerated and probably exalted while the other is seen as vile and evil?
posted by Helen at 10:27 AM
61 Comments:
I doubt we'll see an apology on Letterman for this one.
Sadly, no, we will not. I find it interesting that extreme leftists talk non-stop of their "compassion" and peace-loving nature but seem to be filled with hate and venom. Reaction formation is the name of the game in their defense arsenal. With all of their supposed "sophistication and intelligence," one would think they would be more aware of the dichotomy of their thinking.
I couldn't help but notice the blog post author has also written a book about how his soul was saved by a Catholic Priest:
http://tinyurl.com/yakvfr
So much for Christian charity...
Helen, you act as if you expected something more or better from a dissolute child-molester. Hendra is one of the most loathsome self-engineered 'celebrities' to come down the pike in a long time, and this is quite in character for him. How wonderful that HuffPo should provide a forum for a man who has caused so much pain and anguish to the people - and children - in his life.
If the buy the premise, expressed by several in the Huffpo comments, that Cheney is worse than Hitler, I suppose hoping he dies is not so bad. Of course if you think he is worse than Hitler you should be institutionalized. These folks are deranged. and no, there will not be a Letterman apology. I think Dave just might be on board with the Huffpo sentiments.
"I couldn't help but notice the blog post author has also written a book about how his soul was saved by a Catholic Priest ...." {Eric]
Apparently, that was just another phase he went through. Someone really ought to explain to him that with saving one's soul, like with baseball, "It ain't over 'til it's over."
It's always been remarkable to me how the allegedly compassionate Left carries on in this way and is virtually never called on it. The prayer for Dick Cheney's death is only the latest in a long line of such vile leftists' wishes towards their conservative opponents--the first one I recall is Julianne Malvaux famously (or infamously) calling on Clarence Thomas' wife to feed him lots of eggs and butter and other high-fat foods in the hope that he would die of a heart attack. She said it was a joke, thought it was funny. It wasn't.
My liberal friends were always talking about the hope that Senator Helms would die soon. When called them on it they always said something like “just joking.” Those libs were very humorous people.
Thus I see this as nothing but one item of a larger pattern.
Hendra is a thoroughly contemptible piece of excrement. His book sucked too.
The interesting point made by earlier commentators though, is the "just joking" response. My five year old uses it when he realizes he's overstepped the mark on his toilet humor.
He's also not as practiced at bluffing that he really meant it as a joke all along.
Sadly, it isn't only the far left that talk or write like this. My best friend is on the far right, and he talks the same way sometimes about people he doesn't like on the far left; he subsides somewhat when I call him on it but still nurtures, in his heart of hearts, those types of beliefs. It may be only that we see the leftists being sick in public, while the right wingers are more or less below the radar.
I think the problem with some in the Far Left is a profound lack of maturity. Their heyday, the 1970s - with the pullout of Vietnam, Watergate, and the Saturday Night Live chic - prided rebellion against authority without understanding the consequences of actions taken.
Pulling out of Vietnam led to a bolder Russia (think Afghanistan), weak-kneed response to kidnapped Americans (think Iran), and carnage (think the Killing Fields of Cambodia).
I hope the Dems in new Congress have the political maturity to understand that people's lives are at stake here and throughout the world. Choices are difficult, unpopular (in the short-run), and complicated.
President Bush's policies have had weaknesses in part because he had little or no thoughtful opposition. Calling him stupid, evil, or worse doesn't help improve policy. It scares when me Hilliary Clinton and Alan Derschowitz (sp) are some of the more level-headed people on foreign policy in the Democratic Party.
How did you react to this quote from Pat Robertson a few years back? I hope you were just as horrified then.
(CBS/AP) Religious broadcaster Pat Robertson urged his nationwide audience Monday to pray for God to remove three justices from the Supreme Court so they could be replaced by conservatives.
NORFOLK, Virginia, July 15, 2003
Hendra's high point seems to have been posing with cuts of meat in the National Lampoon magazine, lo these many years ago. His career seems to have gone downhill since then.
Nancy Pelosi will only be about one and a half heart beats from the presidency.
Praying for someone's death is one of the most despicable acts possible. Praying for someone's death is worse than hoping for it. In praying you are asking God to take the life of another. Hoping is often no more than a fantasy.
As far as being caring and compassionate, Dick Cheney and his wife donated over $6.8 million to charity last year. Indeed, conservatives give more to charity than liberals than liberals.
Micheal Richards let loose with his rant during a moment of anger and frustration. Hendra is guilty of malice and forethought.
Not being an armchair psychiatrist I thought it more than a little odd what this persons thoughts and a lot of the commentors turned to for Thanksgiving. I wonder what he thinks about around Chrostmas/Hannukah?
I loved the poster who virtuously pointed out that Pat Robertson had suggested that people pray for the deaths of Supreme Court justices.
Here is a clue, friend: it is ALWAYS bad to wish the death of people who aren't Hitler types. That goes for Robertson as well as the twit on the Huffington Post. Of course, the twits on the Huffington Post actually do think that Cheney is worse than Hitler (puh-leeze---quit insulting the memory of Holocaust victims everywhere).
What I object to is the juvenile business of giving "your side" a pass. No one is giving Robertson a pass.
But to bring Robertson up in this context reminds me of my six year old, when I catch him doing something bad: "Well, Eric does it too."
I guess it is too much of that Leftist moral relativism.
Sheesh.
Now that you have analyzed this, can you please explain Ann Coulter to me?
Guess you missed the news post where HuffPo commenters wished for Bush daughter Barbara to be assaulted with a jabanero dipped flashlight, or gang-raped until she had "bleeding sores."
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2006/11/21/first-daughter-barbara-bu_n_34659.html
The commenters at that site never disappoint, if you are trying to find the lowest of the low in political rhetoric. HuffPo - your internet headquarters for vile, substance-free, hate-mongering.
Easy. Most people do NOT approve of her scorched earth approach.
Let's turn it around. How can you defend every word coming out of Charley Rangel's mouth?
See how easy that "moral relativism" defense is? Just pick an extremist and assume your opponent agrees 100% with the extremist.
Give me a break, pal.
While I hate to defend Robertson, I don't think this thread would be going on if Hendra had written a prayer for Cheney's retirement. Did Robertson specifically for God to cause the death of three justices? The distinction between "get out" and "drop dead" doesn't seem that subtile.
I'm beginning to think that the extreme left's "sophistication and intelligence" is just a successful branding effort. They act more like devotees to a religious doctrine.
I've occasionally wondered if a lack of faith in God leads the people who make such prayers to think that the prayer will be inoffensive, ineffective, or both.
I think it's sickening.
Maybe I'm complely on another planet, but Tony Hendra's screed was so over the top that it had to be ironic put-down. Especially given his quasi-rightwing earlier incarnation(s). How could anybody take this literally, espcially with the closing grace.
(same Anonymous who has the 5 year old)
Having read Hendra's book, it's not big on irony. Or anything really.
The freedom to say what you wish doesn't protect you from people who condemn what you said. Ask Michael Richards.
Incidentally, I'm not really sure that his 'quasi-rightwing earlier incarnations' buys him any karma points. Worthless clods can be found thru'out the political spectrum.
Dunno if anyone has mentioned this, and it seems all but forgotten, but I think its fair game to know everything about a public opinion columnist.
http://query.nytimes.com/gst/fullpage.html?res=9C0CE4DA103BF932A25754C0A9629C8B63
after Hendra's success with the book "Father Joe", about his deep friendship with a Catholic priest with whom Hendra had long and soul-searching discussions about faith and religion, Hendra's daughter came out with accusations he had molested her and some of her friends as teenagers. He denies it, but its in the NYT.
Take it for what its worth.
Just sayin'
Leftist ideology is becoming increasingly indistinguishable from that of Al-Qaeda. They both want the death of those who do not agree with them.
1) Note the alliance between the ACLU and CAIR.
2) Note how Osama took talking point from Michael Moore in his Oct. 2004 video, and urged people to vote Democrat.
3) Note how all of America's enemies rejoiced the 2006 election results.
Better link, but warning, very sick details of what this guy supposedly forced his daughter to do at age 6-10. I had the 'teen's thing wrong. Also, reading more of the story above, the Times reporter involved did diligent (according to the ombudsman) research and the story was printed because the Times was confident the abuse DID happen, there are contemporous accounts of her telling friends, but nothing was ever done about it.
http://www.jessicahendra.com/press.htm
Here is the inside story of the guy who wrote that article wishing for Cheney's death. From his own daughter. So not so shocking maybe that he's a creep.
If indeed 'the prayer of a righteous man is powerful and effective', this one's certain to be ignored.
No worse than anything that Ann Coulter has ever spewed. There are low-class human beings on both ends of the political spectrum, but the right tends to showcase them much more than the left. Your hypocrisy is appalling but not surprising.
I have rarely found myself in a place where my enemies are such a danger that I feel it appropriate to learn from the imprecatory Psalms ("Lord, dash their children's heads against the rocks" kind of stuff). I'm much more likely to pray simply for their evil works to be frustrated and for them to turn to the good. But that kind of prayer doesn't make as interesting copy for the internet.
Anonymous said...
"right tends to showcase them much more than the left"
The Main Stream Media, being 90% left wing, does a good job of "showcasing" who they want to for their party's benefit. Read "Arrogance" and "Bias" by Bernard Goldberg.
Pat from Texas,
Both those on the left and right can make hateful or negative statements. However, the problem is that the MSM is more likely to run a negative story about a Republican and tend to overlook those on the left who do the same thing. This can mislead the public (at least those who do not follow up to check out facts, etc.) to think that Republicans etc. frequently make hateful, racist etc. statements while the Democrats do not. Anyone spending any time around liberal circles for long will know that this is absolutely not true. Hateful statements are just more tolerated when spewed by Democrats.
"it is ALWAYS bad to wish the death of people who aren't Hitler types... of course, the twits... actually do think that Cheney is worse than Hitler"
This is why you should pray for anyone's death. One man's murderer is another's Messiah. Pray for peace, prosperity, wisdom, harmony, and health. Not someone's death, or a Mercedez-Benz.
Pardon... thought I'd typed "should NOT pray for someone's death".
Call me 'Anonymous Brian.'
Another 'anonymous' keeps posting that this 'prayer for Dick Cheney's heart attack' by Tony Hendra (an alleged incestuous child molester) is nothing worse than anything that Ann Coulter (NOT an alleged incestuous child molester) has written. Anonymous has either never read Ann Coulter or completely misses Ann's approach to political satire.
Leftist columnists (like Tony Hendra, Julianne Malvaux, et at)repeatedly call or satiricaly "wish" for death upon their political opponents because they simply disagree with their politics. Ann Coulter uses a more sophisticated and less hateful form of humor when she satiricaly wishes harm against her enemies...BECAUSE SHE IS POINT-BLANK IMITATING THEIR VERY OWN BELIEFS AND ACTIONS!
Case in point, when asked by Katie Couric what she would do in response to 9/11, Coulter satiricaly stated something close to "we should roll into the Middle East, kill all the Muslims or convert them to Christianity." This was both a "hurtful" statement AND yet a hillarious comment because THIS IS EXACTLY WHAT THE ISLAMOFASCISTS DID TO US AS EVIDENCED ON 9/11 because as their militant leaders repeatedly state, THEY WANT TO KILL US ALL OR CONVERT US TO ISLAM AS THEY SAY THEIR PROPHET WISHES THEM TO DO!!!
In order for Hendra's piece on V.P. Cheney to be as intelligent and satirical, Cheney would have to have stated that HE wanted one of HIS political opponents to die of a heart attack BEFORE Hendra wished it on him. But Cheney has never stated as such, and therefore, Hendra's piece is not funny. It is not intelligent, it is simply hateful...and "hateful" seems to be indicitive of Tony Hendra's attitude in life, whether it is beneignly directed towards those he opposes politicaly, or it is malignantly directed towards his own flesh and blood.
I hope the above explains to the previous 'anonymous' why Ann Coulter is often funny... and hateful liberals like Tony Hendra are often not. Therefore, it is incorrect to lump Ann Coulter in with the "low-class human beings" on the left, as you describe them.
The next time you read Ann Coulter, take a moment to understand what she is saying.
The 'anon' who thinks Ann Coulter is as bad as Hendra merely proves my points (which the cowardly leftist did not).
1) Note the alliance between the ACLU and CAIR.
2) Note how Osama took talking point from Michael Moore in his Oct. 2004 video, and urged people to vote Democrat.
3) Note how all of America's enemies rejoiced the 2006 election results.
Also, note this Rasmussen poll :
http://www.rasmussenreports.com/Political%20Tracking/Issues/AmericaFairDecent.htm
77% of Republicans think America is a good country. But only 44% of Democrats do. 44% of Democrats think America is NOT a good country.
Sickos like Hendra, and the ACLU/NAMBLA groups that would defend him, have become the face of the left, and seek to harm everything that is good and decent, especially America.
I agree. Leftists and Islamic terrorists are virtually the same thing. Both are on the same side in the WoT, and both use the same talking points.
From one anonymous to another. You said, "But to bring Robertson up in this context reminds me of my six year old, when I catch him doing something bad: 'Well, Eric does it too.'"
It seems a little different since Pat Robertson is a supposed national political and religious leader and asked millions of people who presumably believe in the efficacy prayer to pray for the death of Supreme Court Justices of the United States as opposed to some guy at Huff Post who states his own feelings and didn't ask anybody else to do anything.
Too many righties take the words of an obscure individual and say all leftists are idiots because of what he said, but when someone points out that one of your leaders says outrageous stuff, your defense is "don't whine, two wrongs don't make a right."
"Pat Robertson is a supposed national political and religious leader and asked millions of people who presumably believe in the efficacy prayer to pray for the death of Supreme Court Justices of the United States"
That's a point well taken, and it does pay to have a sense of proportion in these matters.
(S)he's also quite right to point out that if the right uses the same methods and tactics as the left, they lose any right to complain about those tactics. And it's not that difficult to find such excesses. For that matter, it's not hard to find 'conservatives' just as twitchy, mean-spirited and thin-skinned as anyone on the far left.
Isn't that, in summary, the reason we've been hearing lately re why Republicans just lost all those seats?
"We need somebody to put rat poisoning in Justice Stevens' crème brûlée. That's just a joke, for you in the media."
Ann Coulter at Philander Smith College in Little Rock, Arkansas, on January 26, 2006
Anonymous 7:02:
This post is not about which left or right leaning pundit, writer etc. is "worse." It is about the exposure and outrage that people show over remarks like Michael Richards and the tolerance and limited exposure they give to leftists who make even uglier remarks.
Actually this post is about each side believing that the other side is worse and their wild quotes are horrible and tell the truth about their fundamental badness whereas the wild quotes on my side are simply high spirits or something and don't really mean anything about the rest of us.
It's a mob mentality, and opportunity. Sharpton and other rabble-rousers have a vested interest in keeping controversies like the 'Richards' flap alive. It's also an opportunity for anyone who wants to weigh in and feel good about themselves by attacking someone who won't retaiiate. And of course it sells more papers if it's an ogoing outrage than if his apology is accepted.
Same thing with Cheney, who comes across like a bulldog, the way Agnew did. He's unpopular in many urban cultures, and attacking him confers the same advantages that attacking Richards does.
This has nothing to do with morals and right/wrong, and everything to do with remaining in the herd, and personal ego. As a psychologist, surely you understand this.
Well, I certainly think that calling for the death of Dick Cheney is over the top and immature. However, as some people have pointed out, if you seriously thought some individual was tantamount to Hitler, would you be wrong in calling for his death? I would imagine that any German who called for the death of Hitler would well nigh be a hero in my view.
Now, you may think the Dick Cheney is nowhere near a Hitler type. And let's face it, none of us really knows what is in his heart of hearts. But I imagine Hendra probably doesn't think so either, which is why what he said is immature.
But I think there's probably a big difference between praying for the death of a certain individual and making insulting remarks about an entire RACE of people.
I claim no perfect insight nor absolute objectivity, but my recollection is that in my lifetime the really hateful ad hominem attacks on public personalities started with Robert Bork and kicked into high gear with Clarence Thomas. When no good reason could be found for opposing Thomas' nomination, his opponents called him stupid and found someone to accuse him of crude acts (that they would later make light of when attributed to a sitting president in the oval office). Since GWB's nomination he has been attacked as a lightweight, a cowboy, and worse, until hyperbole can only be achieved by lowering the bar to truly uncivil levels. This prayer continues the practice. For my part I pray that we as a nation will someday rediscover civility in political discourse. The pendulum has truly swung far enough -- time to start back the other direction. F
Anonymous 5:15: Did you really miss the previous comment pointing out that, based on the quote appearing numerous times in these comments, Pat Robertson prayed for God to remove three justices from the bench; to say that he prayed for God to cause their deaths is to read into Robertson's comment what he apparently did not say. Supreme Court justices do have the option of retiring, for any reason.
Anonymous 7:12 It's Helen's blog, for goo'ness sake; if she clarifies the purpose of a post, she, as the author, can do that. Your "correction" should have referred to the comments, and not to the post.
(Save us from anonymity!)
Dr. Helen,
The Huffington Post article calling for Dick Cheney's death was highly distressing. It's cruel for anyone - liberal or conservative, American or any nationality - to pray for someone else's death. It's immoral and sacrilegious, so it's doubly offensive. But, in candor, extreme statements have become commonplace in the comment sections of some blogs. The part that distresses me is to see something like this posted as an article, presumably with the sanction or at least a blind eye from the people who publish the website. It's like the difference between a one person's reactionary letter to the editor of a local newspaper (bad enough, but most will view that person as a kook) and a newspaper editor publishing a hateful screed in a front-page story. Too many people will believe an article just because it was published by what seems like a reputable source.
Hyperbole in blog comments? That's the stupidest thing I've ever heard.
Great Medical Books: http://www.onlybooks.us/categories/medicine.html
Hold on a sec, didn't the representatives of the American Left just win the last election?
And it wasn't a squeaker, mind you, but an "ass-whuppin'".
Can you imagine what they'd be saying if they had lost on November 7th?
re: Capt. Holly
Yeah but the election was stolen! The machines were rigged! The American Public is are stupid Christers! I'm moving to Canada! Pelosi is Hitler!
Oh wait, I'm not a liberal. nm.
I looked up Ann Coulter's 'Poison Creme Brulee' reference on Google and discovered that, unlike the liberal Tony Hendra, it was one throw away line during a Q+A after an entire presentation...and NOT an entire premise for a botched column like Hendra's. And with this in mind, leftist-oriented blogs; from a local NYC newsradio station, to something called "Michelle Malkin Is An Idiot.com, have devoted pages of entries rebuking Coulter's one-liner and questioning (wishing?)whether she can be brought up on charges for her statement.
Unless the same level of criticism is brought upon Hendra's entire article...I believe Dr. Helen's point, about condemnation for some vs. toleration and even exaltation for others, remains valid.
-Anonymous Brian
I don't care for Ann Coulter's style of punk journalism, even if I sometimes agree with her point. She's not a regular read for me.
I find it unsurprising that extremists of all stripes engage in vitriolic "discourse." They're angry people, and, when I get angry, I want to knock heads together too. The difference, so far as I can tell, is that I don't like feeling angry, don't get any points for being angry, and therefore try to avoid getting angry; whereas extremists seem to enjoy the attention they garner by getting angry in public.
Having said that, I have to agree with the commenter who noted that public discivility took a sharp turn upwards with the Bork nomination, and that the gloves really came off with the Thomas nomination. Likewise Carter breaking precedent by publicly criticizing a sitting President as an ex-President. Likewise the whole Clinton business (both sides contributing in that case: I think Newt Gingrich is what Clinton sees when he looks in the mirror, Left swapped for Right.) Et cetera.
Why has this happened? Television hasn't helped; it's an unspeakably dumb medium any way you look at it, and it tends to dumb down the public discourse. The failures of public education haven't helped either. Our kids are programmed to respond to the sound bite and the factoid.
There was a time -- long ago -- when maudlin behavior by a politician or pundit was unacceptable. We wanted our leaders to be able to articulate ideas. Grown men don't cry, and all that. I suggest, with trepidation, that the feminization of the culture has not helped. Perhaps it is significant that being "hot" is part of the Coulter and Malkin shtick, and Hendra is allegedly a pederast.
Part of it is cynical politics. Before the 2004 election, I attended the local Republican caucus where we heard a speech by the local Bush campaign manager. At the conclusion, several of us objected to negative campaigning. The campaign manager, an obviously bright and articulate man, bluntly responded that if the Republicans didn't define who Kerry was, then the Democrats would define who Bush was and we'd lose. Sadly, he was probably correct, if not right. If you follow me.
The bottom line is that we get the politicians, and commentators, we want.
Hendra, Coulter, Malkin ... are all beneath contempt. No reasonable person can take them seriously. Whether they believe the crap they write doesn't really matter. Their goal has been achieved -- they get their moments of fame and huzzahs from some ill-informed rabble who should know better.
Kent was close with his last comment but I would amend it to say "We get the politicians ... and commentators we deserve."
I have always seen Coulter as a stand up comedian, and she makes me laugh. Kinda like Bill Marher (sp?!?) But Michelle Malkin leads with documented facts. Inconvienent and uncomfortable at times, but facts. I don't count her in the same breath with Ms. Coulter.
I wonder if you or I are in the majority on this one.
Trey
Somebody had to be the first to take the low road, then somebody else had to perceive that it was cool to do so and proceed to imitate them.One previous post traced this extreme, abusive tendency back to the Bork and Clarence Thomas nominations. Does anyone remember who, specifically, started the trend? I mean, any specific newspaper, columnist, pundit, radio personality, etc. It didn't just "happen."
Anonymous-10:47AM discredits him/herself by stating, "Hendra, Coulter, Malkin ... are all beneath contempt. No reasonable person can take them seriously."
This is either misguided opinion, or worse, dishonesty...all depending upon Anonymous-10:47AM's knowledge of the subject at hand. An equally ridiculous statement would be, "Ward Churchill, Andy Rooney and George Will...are all beneath contempt. No reasonable person can take them seriously."
These are ridiculous statements because: both George Will and Michelle Malkin are reasoned commentators who insist on backing up their opinions with facts, both Andy Rooney and Ann Coulter are unmistakable idealogues who balance facts with acerbic wit, and both Ward Churchill and Tony Hendra are venomous individuals who spew hatred and death wishes upon their political and societal enemies, not because of factual neccessity or a punchline, but because they really hate their enemies that much.
Therefore, for Anonymous-10:47 AM to lump "contemptable" individuals together (ie Michelle Malkin and Tony Hendra or George Will and Ward Churchill...or Mother Theresa and Adolph Hitler for that matter!) is a churlish practice (moral relatavism?) that only adultrates the larger issue...which I believe was, "Why does Tony Hendra get a free pass for saying hateful things for which others would not get a pass?"
Put more simply, if you are going to lump conservative pundits in with the repeatedly excused, malicious sentiments of liberal pundits, please give clear examples and why you believe they are equivalent.
-Anonymous Brian
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