MySpace to the Rescue
Dateline says that posting too much information on social networking sites like MySpace may be dangerous. But sometimes, it can save lives:
I wonder if we will see Dateline or other MSM outlets run positive stories about internet social networking sites--probably about the time they run an hour long series on gun owners who saved themselves with their weapons. In other words, I won't be holding my breath.
Kansas law officials say they've foiled a plot to attack a rural high school. Cherokee County Sheriff Steve Norman says five students are in custody. He says deputies found guns, ammunition, knives and encoded messages in the bedroom of one of the suspects.
Norman says officials got wind of the Riverton High School plot after a threatening message was posted on the Web site MySpace.com.
I wonder if we will see Dateline or other MSM outlets run positive stories about internet social networking sites--probably about the time they run an hour long series on gun owners who saved themselves with their weapons. In other words, I won't be holding my breath.
posted by Helen at 6:39 AM
24 Comments:
It is a good thing you are not holding your breath Dr. Helen, I fully expect the MSM to begin a campaign to discredit the "looking at personal journals such as myspace.com" as unwarranted intrusion into and possibly even unconstitutional invasion of privacy.
I ask the kids I see in my practice if I can visit their sites. They always say yes, and it is a help to me in getting to know them. I always caution them about putting out personal identifications, and none of them have. But I learn important things. Of course I do not post there, and we discuss what I have noticed because that is the point of my going there. But it is how I learned about one patient cutting herself. So there is another interesting plus, it can help the teen's therapist.
Trey
While I'm all for social networking sites, this isn't the greatest example. Basically, the argument from this case comes down to, "MySpace is good because stupid violent teens will moronically post threats there rather than in their private diaries, and then we can stop them."
myspace is a cesspool of cultural degeneracy where teens immerse themselves in a dead end youth culture instead of working on becoming adults. This story only further serves to condemn myspace - it shows that it will enable your teenager to interact not only with would be mass murderers, but ones so incredibly stupid that they think a public website is a good place to work out criminal conspiracies. The only silver lining here, is that it appears teens on myspace won't be meeting any Hannibal Lecters - just their moron cousins. That is, if you think that's any consolation.
dweeb,
I have never looked at MySpace, but I have seen others. I wonder if such sites provide a mirror for our culture. Do they show what really lurks in the hearts and minds of people? Do they show things which have existed for thousands of years in the species, yet are only now being shown as widespread? Do they make us uncomfortable because we see characteristics which can no longer be attributed to a small deviant set?
If the internet is a mirror, it shows both positive and negative, and provides a scope we haven't encountered before. I think the danger might be in trying to shoot the messenger who brings us news that our kids aren't really what we think they are. They are just like us.
its the ones who dont talk about it online, they are the dangerous ones. i have written blog stories, about how i hate my brother, i dont really, but it gets rid of my stress. in a public area, if i kept it to myself it would build and build, until i would possibly kill him.
will there be an increase on so called thought crimes, many a time i have imagined beating up a petty minded bureaucrat, i have even written about it, will i be arrested for speaking. for thinking bad thoughts.
does a thought of a crime, actually mean a crime is commited.
Mercurior-
It does if it's conspiracy,
or if there is collaborating evidence.
but i have planned stuff with other friends, not that we did anything, would we have been guilty of thinking about doing stuff? it should be the intention of committing a crime, which is a very grey area. i knew this one manager who everyone disliked, and 6 of the people under him worked out a plan to kill him. ;-) he was that type.. but he is still around and screwing up his workers lives.. where does the conspiracy to commit a crime begin and the fantasy end.
mercurior,
Regarding your little gang of six, you really didn't pay the brain bill that month. Fantasy becomes conspiracy when one or more of the parties actually has intent to execute the plan. Contemplate for yourself what constitutes proof of that, but you really need to ask yourself if any of the other 5 of your associates might ever have a reason to want you locked up. "Your honor, I thought it was all a joke, but that mercurior guy - he was serious about it."
at moments we all intend murder, you me everyone. you may want to murder me and plan it, and actually consider doing it. its a grey area dweeb. how long does it take for a fantasy, to become a conspiracy. (and once again personal attacks dweeb your not even fun to bait anymore)
Mercurior,
I recommend you stop making this kind of record.
dweeb,
I'm on myspace and participate in the largest Christian group on that site. I would say it mirrors society. I've met nice people, including non-Christians and also seen the typical morons who get a kick out of disrupting message boards in various ways. They're not much different then someone I knew years ago, that wanted to dent someone's car door, just because they parked a little too close.
Mercurior, no one's attacking you. I'm pointing out that your little confab with your coworkers wasn't your finest hour, and trying to relieve you of your ignorance regarding just how much legal jeopardy you put yourself in. Yes, we may all have murderous thoughts, but when we PLAN carrying them out, verbally with OTHER PEOPLE, that's a conspiracy. Fantasy becomes conspiracy when it's shared between two or more people, and at least one of them is serious about it. The point is, all it would have taken is for one of your coworkers to come forward and claim you were serious about it. Like anonymous 5:51 pointed out, you really aren't too being to smart about the issue of recording incriminating things in your past. One of the keys to having murderous thoughts and NOT going to jail for them is knowing when to keep one's mouth shut.
ah but this is the very case, i havent seen him for years, he still works there. he is still alive. so.where is the conspiracy, its me speaking, thats the point i was making.
we all have these thoughts, and plans, but the majority doesnt happen. should everyone who has these thoughts be arrested for conspiracy. if so then everyone should be in prison.
thats the point. and how do you know i am not lying. how all my work bosses were kind and nice.
you dont get it do you. because a person thinks it, and even plans it, does not mean he is guilty. just that he has thoughts.
Mercurior, YOU just don't get it. The fact that he's alive is NOT an affirmative defense to a charge of conspiracy to kill him, i.e. if one of your coworkers came forward two years later, you could be charged with conspiracy to commit murder, NOT with murder, and standing up in court and saying the boss was unharmed wouldn't do you a bit of good. It would be irrelevant to the charges.
Also, no, while the rest of us may have these thoughts and plans, IN OUR OWN PRIVATE THOUGHTS, we DON'T go around cooperatively planning such things with others, and that's the difference you seem to miss.
You could be lying, and STILL, your postings here could be the basis for putting you in legal hot water. You have little or no understanding of the laws regarding conspiracy, and people here are trying to clue you in to just how dangerous some of your actions have been to YOUR staying out of prison.
Dweeb you are talking out of your backside. Get real. What about writers of murder stories, crimes etc., can they be held for that as well.
As someone in Legal Field, I find your comments most odd.
As for your remarks to Mercurior, you should desist as it appears to me that you are targetting them for simply having an opinion.
Where for goodness sake is your famous or infamous whichever people look at it "Freedom od Speech".
I have never in all the years I have been dealing with Criminals and some really nasty ones too ever had cause to deal with such as you are suggesting.
There is a difference between planning and actually carrying out crimes, planning could be deemed as a release mechanism to someone who is stressed out by the behaviour of others. The internet is a means of everyone letting out their thoughts be they real or not.
How do you know that Mercurior's thoughts were real or that he was sounding off about a book he is writing or to get a point across to someone.
Answer you do not. So I would say to you "back off, with your bully boy tactics".
Veronica,
If you're really a Legal professional, then you know the conspiracy laws, and you know how ridiculous it is to throw out things like writers. They don't engage in cooperative planning of actual crimes against actual persons, with others. They have arrangements with publishers that make it clear everyone knows they are preparing a work of fiction.
In the last 6 months, I have read of three major cases in my state of persons being prosecuted for engaging in conspiracies where no murder took place. In all these cases, the conduct in question did not exceed what Mercurior describes. In one case, one of the conspirators didn't know the other was an undercover cop. In the other two, one conspirator turned the other in when he/she thought the other was serious, in one case because money was offered. All three involved the PLANNING of murdering a spouse, something people think about and write novels about all the time.
You also need to work on your reading comprehension. I haven't objected to any opinions on Mercurior's part, I've simply commented on his story, and I've NOT condemned him for it, merely pointed out that he was in far more legal danger than he thought (especially since, if I recall, he lives in the UK, where there are far fewer protections for defendants than in the USA) and that he would be smart not to shout about ill-advised activities from the rooftops.
As for Freedom of speech, again, your reading comprehension suffers. I never so much as implied he didn't have a right to say anything. I merely pointed out the wisdom of keeping some things to oneself - since you claim to be a legal professional, I'll put it this way - your statement about free speech in this context is the equivalent of claiming a cop is infringing on someone's freedom of speech by reading them their Miranda rights.
I merely pointed out that he should avoid publicly incriminating himself.
Answer I do. Whether his thoughts were real is IRRELEVANT. He discussed and developed plans with FIVE OTHER PEOPLE, and if any one of those 5 thought he was serious, that would land him in a heap of trouble. I'm not talking about his thoughts, I'm talking about his actions - his out loud verbal planning session with 5 co-conspirators, any one of which could become a witness against him based on THEIR interpretation of his sincerity. In a day and age when you can become the object of an investigation based on a secret, warrantless search of your borrowing habits at the local library, such actions are not wise.
Mercurior,
There are currently two case in the news regarding conspiracy to commit murder. One is in Kansas where some kids planned to kill people at their school. The other is in Alaska where they planned the same thing.
Note that nobody was killed, yet the conspiracy still took place. The conspiracy does not have to succeed to exist.
Prior to pulling the trigger, the conspirators may be found guilty of conspiracy to commmit murder. After pulling the trigger they may additionally be charged with murder.
thing is mercurior isnt from america, as he has mentioned repeatedly, he is from the UK, where they arent that silly in regards to the law.
mercurior and dweeb--
Basic American criminal law: A conspiracy charge requires an overt act in furtherance of the conspiracy. In other words, more than talking and planning. The conspiracy doesn't have to succeed, but it has to move beyond the planning stage and into preparation.
But yeah, saying "I've come close to committing a serious crime" on an open internet forum isn't exactly the wisest idea.
Voice of insanity, I know he's from the UK - that only makes it MORE problematic, not less.
Brian, I've seen plenty of cases in the news where the overt act amounted to little more than a promise to pay a hit man, and that's prior to the bar being lowered even further by the various laws passed in response to 9/11, here and abroad.
In prostitution cases, the suspect merely needs to lay out the bargain of an act for a price. That's nothing more than planning and proposing.
Look at what we're talking about - it goes way beyond not wise.
Getting together with 5 coworkers to work out a detailed plan for killing the boss is a really good way to end up in prison. Let me put it this way - if we worked together, and had such a discussion, and you later found out I had recorded it, I doubt you'd just dismiss that revelation off with talk of lack of overt acts.
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