Thursday, April 20, 2006

Cathy Young looks at another side of "husband management" in this post.

34 Comments:

Blogger Darren Blacksmith said...

This is just a quibble about semantics.

Yes, technically speaking the conservative 'women-firster' might not call herself a feminist, but the feminist and the women-firster (such as the women who claim that men should act in a chivilrous way and give up their seat on a train to a woman etc) are just two sides of the same coin.

If Ms Young genuinely cared about men and boys then she would see this and not be so defensive towards feminism.

12:18 PM, April 20, 2006  
Blogger DRJ said...

I know that I am swimming against the tide on this issue, both here and in the earlier post, and as I would be at Cathy Young's blog. But I think married couples should be able to strike their own balance as long as they aren't violent or abusive relationships. Some marriages may have a dominant husband, others a dominant wife, or they may vary (as my marriage does) where the husband and wife split various duties and each is the "boss" of those matters.

I guess that my point is that no marriage works perfectly and, in fact, they shouldn't aim for some perfect balance. Marriages are constantly changing and adjusting, and the best ones have spouses who accept that when it comes to everyday living, no one should keep score.

12:48 PM, April 20, 2006  
Blogger Darren Blacksmith said...

Thats not the point. The point is that if the wife is dominant over the husband - against his wishes - there is very little he can do about it these days. But if the husband is dominant over the wife against her wishes then she has the whole of popular culture and the force of the law behind her.

12:56 PM, April 20, 2006  
Blogger Helen said...

DRJ and Darren,

Yes, I know women who mention that a husband is verbally abusing her, telling her how to spend money, not letting her out of the house, and everyone is behind her telling her where to get help, how to get help etc. I know many men in the same postion (verbally abusive wife, controls money, wants him home all the time etc.) and they are told to go along with the program because the woman holds the power (kids, cash etc.). This is what I find unfair--not individual differences in dominance--e.g. he hogs the tv remote, she is better at the finances etc.

1:03 PM, April 20, 2006  
Blogger DRJ said...

Darren and Dr. Helen,

I'm confused. I agree that women have advantages in divorce, especially in division of assets and child custody matters. I agree that is unfair but I thought we were discussing the online marriage of Mad Dad and Mad Mom as displayed at his website. My point was that I think their marriage is fairly normal and definitely not dysfuctional or dangerous. So while I agree with Dr. Helen's and Darren's points, I'm not convinced that Mad Dad's website proves them.

1:26 PM, April 20, 2006  
Blogger Darren Blacksmith said...

Its not just a matter of legal advantages in divorce, there are also now legal powers that wives can invoke against husbands in relation to 'domestic violence'. And domestic violence no longer just relates to physical assaults, but often to more nebulus and psychological accusations. More often than not these are used merely as a weapon against husbands, and the man tends to be arrested and placed in a cell immediately, even if it was actually the wife who was the aggressor in the incident. Another case of modern men being assumed guilty until proven innocent.

Whether or not the 'mad dad and mom' on that website are proof of all this is not the point (I think) that Dr Helen was trying to make, rather I believe she was using it as an illustration of the types of manipulation that result from such a climate of powerlessness in Husbands.

2:28 PM, April 20, 2006  
Blogger Darren Blacksmith said...

Also: domestic violence now seems to have been re-defined to only mean things that a man does to his wife/female partner.

When a child hits the mother/father, when the mother abuses the child/father, or when a gay person abuses their partner it is rarely referred to and categorised as 'domestic violence'.

2:32 PM, April 20, 2006  
Anonymous Jim said...

In Dr. Helens' defense I posted this on e the thread on Cathy's site, referring first to a paragraph in her own post, and also quotes a term used by another commenter:

"But in fact, it is anti-feminist traditionalists, not feminists, who embrace female manipulation of men as a positive value -- a way women can wield power and achieve what they want without "becoming like men."

The problem with this is the huge number of male-bashing "womyn" who call themselves "feminists" and have in fact so polluted and degraded that good name that it now carries a very negative semantic load, so much so that when young women deny that they are feminist, they often explain why by saying that they are not man-haters.

Real feminsts should rejoice at the "over-the-top female-bashing" because it represents men moving away from the old gender roles and norms of behavior, to real gender equality. In the past if a woman slapped a man, or was verbally abusive to him, he was just supposed to be a big guy and suck it up. Now men are seeing through that and expecting equality and not finding it, either in society at large or in the courts. This is true with regard to domestic violence, both in reporting by the police and in statute - VAWA is explicitly discriminatory - in the discussion around male underachievenment in schools, and most horribly in matters of child custody and parenting.

The dishonesty coming from the other side does not help the discussion - charges of female-bashing when the "bashing" is simple criticism, manipulative swipes about men "whining" and wonderment at phyisacl violence where someone has tried to separate a father from his children in the same person who would take it for granted in a mother.

The anger you are observing among many men reminds me very much of the anger among women in the 60's. It is a beginning of something larger, and if it is welcomed instead of resisted, it can be constructive, just as before.

3:45 PM, April 20, 2006  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Jim,

Where do you see this anger? Who is angry?

5:39 PM, April 20, 2006  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

I manage my husband by spoiling him rotten. He spoils me rotten in return. So now we have to stay married to each other because nobody else could bear either one of us.

I have a favorite cartoon that has been on my refrigerator for years. It shows a woman with a baby on her hip, running the vacuum, and cradling a telephone on her shoulder. She's saying, "Oh, I don't worry about my husband replacing me with a Barbie. He's too used to having an action figure." And there you go!

5:40 PM, April 20, 2006  
Anonymous serket said...

My uncle-in-law's brother was attacked by his girlfriend and the police were called over. The cop just told her to go home. My uncle-in-law thinks if the situation were reversed, his brother would have been thrown in jail.

7:48 PM, April 20, 2006  
Anonymous Jim said...

"Jim,

Where do you see this anger? Who is angry? "

Well, on this thread and many others on this blog, and at Cathy Y's blog. Cathy Y calls it woman-bashing, and she is right.

Some habe been saying for a couple of decades that we have been having an epidemic of rape, and that may be interpreted as an expression of anger. Or the need to pass special laws concerning viloence aaginst and only against womern might be an acknowledgement that there is anger. father's right sites are full of angry commneters. But you judge for yourself if anyone is saying there is anger.

8:08 PM, April 20, 2006  
Blogger Mercurior said...

and the more they legislate unfairly to "protect" women, the more violence there will be.

they alter the rules of law, to "protect" women, and as jim said look at the 1960;s feminists, they were angry, and they managed to get the power today, men are finally realising that we need to be angry, by all the unfair laws, that exist today.

the very naming of the VAWA act makes a point that men are NOT covererd, violence against WOMEN act. it gives the impression that only women suffer. when it affects men too.

men are acting out, read this and others you will see men are getting angry, not in the hysterical way, but the slow burn the building of it. each topic that demonises men, and fathers, adds a little fuel, until one day men will create a movement (its already begun in small stages). to redress this imbalance. of course then they will most likely be arrested for violence towards women, and thereby create martyrs.

4:07 AM, April 21, 2006  
Blogger jw said...

The entire thing is difficult.

Men and women treat each other badly, at least some do. Society tells the men to handle their pain themselves: Many of those men (including me) handle that pain badly.

This shows as Cathy quoted me. My friend comes close to hating women: There's a LOT of VERY GOOD reason for his feelings. Sorry ladies, but that is the facts, you can't just wave a magic wand and make it go away.

I say "I cannot prove him wrong." That too is true and I am well aware that the reason for it is in my own pain. I am well aware that there are wounds on my soul which will never heal.

So? I think we need to listen to the angry men: A good many of them have VERY good reason for being angry. Most of the woman-bashing comes from wounded people who have zero hope of ever finding a therapist who gives a damn about their pain or their problems. A lot of the woman-bashing comes from the open pride our society takes in demanding that these men are themselves the problem, rather than a symptom of the problem.

What is it about anger? Something along the lines of anger being a sign of something being wrong??? Something like that at any rate ...

There is a lot wrong, a lot wrong with society and with a goodly few men. Demanding that males have no right to complain while females may use real hate in complaining does not solve the problem: It makes the problem worse.

5:16 AM, April 21, 2006  
Blogger TMink said...

First let me say how much I enjoy this blog. I like the topics Dr. Helen puts up, and I enjoy and benefit from much of the discussion. SO MUCH more than the name calling and histrionics on places like the Drudge report and the Huffington blog.

But more on task, I was fussing at m daughter this morning for lying, saying that it was wrong and how it damages intimacy. Then I recalled the "managing" posts and talked about how trying to "manage" people by lying to them will anger and eventually chase off healthy people who are worth being close to.

The opposite is worth stating too. Good marriages and close relationships in general are the result of being genuine, honest, and kind. That is why my marriage is a gift from God, my wife and I protect it by being real and kind. Anytime she has tried to "manage" me she has been totally upfront about it. "I am baking you a cake because I think I can use it sweeten you up for taking care of hte kids while I go scrapbook." Honestly, she does not need to bake the cake, but something about the transparency of the "managing" is cute and effective. Maybe because it is free from guile.

So the bolg helped me to be a better father! Thanks everybody!

Trey

9:45 AM, April 21, 2006  
Blogger Helen said...

Hi Trey,

Thanks for sharing your story--blog comments can degenerate into negativity in a flash so it is nice to hear something positive!

11:18 AM, April 21, 2006  
Blogger Peregrine John said...

Speaking of something positive, anonymous 5:40 has to be the sweetest, most hope-giving post I've read in a long time. With the wit, wisdom, and gentle humor she shows there (also seen in Trey's 9:45 comment), there may be a future for humans after all.

12:35 PM, April 21, 2006  
Blogger BobH said...

To tmink:

I think that your wife is assuming that you would detect any covert attempt by her to "manipulate" you and that your response would be costly to her, if only in the long run. Her response is to try to arrange a mutually beneficial deal. Most men that I know operate very well in this type of environment. Most economists seem to assume that this is how the world works and how it SHOULD work.

(Note to Helen: most of the time, it doesn't have anything to do with sex. It has to do with INCENTIVES. However, over evolutionary time, sex is what matters the most and our emotional biases were developed over evolutionary time.)

However, a great deal of manipulative behavior by women of men seems to be based on the assumptions that the men (1) men will probably not detect the manipulation, (2) men probably will not respond to the manipulation and (3) if men do respond to the manipulation, women can respond with even more painful manipulation, including involving social and legal sanctions (i.e., complaints of abuse, restraining orders and divorce).

I think that most 20-something men, particularly those who have attended a liberal arts college with a women's wtudies department, have come to EXPECT this sort of mistreatment by women. This expectation is being interpreted as hatred of women and is why these men are so "reluctant to commit". One way to avoid punishment is to do what the punisher wants, but another way is to interact with the punisher only when necessary.

1:04 PM, April 21, 2006  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Females in the United States are not women. Females in the US behave like men, think like men,..in fact, they are men. I dont find it attractive at all.

Females anywhere else outside of the US are women. Real women. They know how to treat men. Once US men have experienced asian or latin women, they would not want anything else. More and more single men look for women outside of the US.

8:34 AM, April 22, 2006  
Blogger zed said...

I think that most 20-something men, particularly those who have attended a liberal arts college with a women's wtudies department, have come to EXPECT this sort of mistreatment by women. This expectation is being interpreted as hatred of women and is why these men are so "reluctant to commit". One way to avoid punishment is to do what the punisher wants, but another way is to interact with the punisher only when necessary.

It is far from just young men. I'm in my middle 50s and have watched in horror as the cult of victimhood has seeped into the mentality of virtually every woman I've had to interact with. Dealing with women has, indeed, become punishing and unpleasant as the default position.

I could give thousands of personal examples, but then I would just be dismissed as an "angry male". Instead, I think the mentality shown in Helen's post titled The Duke Case Continues summrizes it perfectly - " Hall said he wanted to see the Duke students prosecuted "whether it happened or not. It would be justice for things that happened in the past."

This revenge mentality insures a perpetual cycle of shifting power and punishment of otherwise innocent people who made the mistake of being born in the wrong group. It is the ultimate "-ism" which the critical theorists use to define their own existence, even as they are the primary perpetrators of it today.

Far from the mythical "Backlash" waved about like a vodoo fetish by the victimists, the unceasing attacks on men are resulting in the great "Back OFF." Like any organism, even supposedly "unintelligent" single-celled ones, men tend to move away from situations they find toxic to them - and dealing with contemporary western women certainly qualifies as toxic when men are being punished for nothing that they personally have done, but for having characteristics in common with a group about which a complex mythology of the commission of atrocities has been constructed.

The anger which men are expressing toward women will not go away. So far it has been shouted down, attacked into silence, and dismissed by shaming tactics. As bobh said, some men avoid the punishment by doing whatever the punisher wants. However, over time even that has failed as a strategy and the punishment has simply become part of the environment. Thus, the next step is to simply avoid the punishers whenever possible.

More and more men are simply going their own way, and leaving women to wallow in their victimhood alone.

12:15 PM, April 23, 2006  
Blogger Helen said...

Zed,

Thanks for your thoughts and insight.

12:45 PM, April 23, 2006  
Blogger zed said...

And, thanks for your even-handed approach to what are some very explosive and divisive issues.

3:46 PM, April 23, 2006  
Blogger fourthwire said...

zed pretty much nails it, Dr. Helen.

Men in America have been demonized to the point where daily interaction with women has become an excercize in tap-dancing through minefields - legal, personal, financial, emotional, criminal and employment-related minefields.

No personal guilt is needed. Simply being born male is enough.

The demonization-of-men indoctrination of millions of American girls continues, on America's campuses, in the mainstream media, and through the feminist pork supplied through VAWA funding.

Andrea Dworkin would have been proud.

Men today face the sexual attraction to women that is hard-wired into most of us.

Simultaneously, men are repelled by the actual or potential punishments awaiting him at the whim of any woman with whom they interact to any significant degree.

From a historical perspective, there are precedents behind the phenomenon that Zed describes in his sentence:

"Like any organism, even supposedly "unintelligent" single-celled ones, men tend to move away from situations they find toxic to them - and dealing with contemporary western women certainly qualifies as toxic when men are being punished for nothing that they personally have done, but for having characteristics in common with a group about which a complex mythology of the commission of atrocities has been constructed."

Think of other demographic groups where group guilt, based on a complex mythology of the commission of atrocities was established and promoted as the basis for disenfranchisement, marginalization, dehumanization and punishment.

One that comes immediately to mind involves Nazi persecution of Jews in the last century, for example.

Another might be blacks in America in previous centuries.

Individuals like David Usher from www.mensnewsdaily.com could provide you with an eloquent, accurate summary or commentary on feminists' success in installing group-hatred of men and boys in America, if you care to know more.

You can expect to experience more complaints that men "are afraid to commit" to marriage and willing reproduction as more Americans recognize that a pair of breasts on the front side leads a warning label on the back.

I understand that your original intent to discuss the manipulation phenomenon in marriage has been altered.

I would suggest with just a touch of cynicism that doing so would be somewhat akin to discussing erratic engine timing on the Titanic - interesting but not the worst danger ahead.

America's men expected equality between the sexes, and they generally receive nothing of the sort in return from any aspect of society that you care to name.

2:01 PM, April 26, 2006  
Blogger look said...

情趣用品,
性感睡衣,
免費視訊聊天,
視訊交友網,
美姬圖影,
情境坊歡愉用品,
花美姬情趣用品,
成人圖片,
臺灣情色網,
嘟嘟情人色網,
色情網站,
情境坊歡愉用品,
徵信,
徵信公司,
徵信,
外遇,
徵信,
徵信,
抓姦,
徵信,
外遇,
徵信,
徵信社,
徵信社,
抓姦,
徵信社,
徵信社,
徵信社,
,
,
整型,
視訊聊天,
視訊交友,
AV女優,
色情,
A片,
A片,
情趣用品,
情色,
A片,
色情影片,
情趣用品,
A片,
AV女優,
視訊聊天室,
聊天,
情趣用品,
情惑用品性易購,
情侶歡愉用品,
A片,
情趣,
情惑用品性易購,
辣妹視訊,
自慰套,
情侶歡愉用品,
寄情築園小遊戲,
aio交友愛情館,
美女視訊,
色情A片,
情趣用品,
徵信社,
情趣用品,
A片,
美女視訊,
色情A片,
AV女優,
A片,
辣妹視訊,
自慰套,
情侶歡愉用品,

12:02 AM, March 15, 2009  
Blogger mmbox said...

2008真情寫真aa片免費看捷克論壇微風論壇大眾論壇plus論壇080視訊聊天室情色視訊交友90739美女交友-成人聊天室色情小說做愛成人圖片區豆豆色情聊天室080豆豆聊天室 小辣妹影音交友網台中情人聊天室桃園星願聊天室高雄網友聊天室新中台灣聊天室中部網友聊天室嘉義之光聊天室基隆海岸聊天室中壢網友聊天室南台灣聊天室南部聊坊聊天室台南不夜城聊天室南部網友聊天室屏東網友聊天室台南網友聊天室屏東聊坊聊天室雲林網友聊天室大學生BBS聊天室網路學院聊天室屏東夜語聊天室孤男寡女聊天室一網情深聊天室心靈饗宴聊天室流星花園聊天室食色男女色情聊天室真愛宣言交友聊天室情人皇朝聊天室上班族成人聊天室上班族f1影音視訊聊天室哈雷視訊聊天室080影音視訊聊天室38不夜城聊天室援交聊天室080080哈啦聊天室台北已婚聊天室已婚廣場聊天室 夢幻家族聊天室摸摸扣扣同學會聊天室520情色聊天室QQ成人交友聊天室免費視訊網愛聊天室愛情公寓免費聊天室拉子性愛聊天室柔情網友聊天室哈啦影音交友網哈啦影音視訊聊天室櫻井莉亞三點全露寫真集123上班族聊天室尋夢園上班族聊天室成人聊天室上班族080上班族聊天室6k聊天室粉紅豆豆聊天室080豆豆聊天網新豆豆聊天室080聊天室免費音樂試聽流行音樂試聽免費aa片試看免費a長片線上看色情貼影片免費a長片

7:07 AM, March 22, 2009  
Blogger mmbox said...

本土成人貼圖站大台灣情色網台灣男人幫論壇A圖網嘟嘟成人電影網火辣春夢貼圖網情色貼圖俱樂部台灣成人電影絲襪美腿樂園18美女貼圖區柔情聊天網707網愛聊天室聯盟台北69色情貼圖區38女孩情色網台灣映像館波波成人情色網站美女成人貼圖區無碼貼圖力量色妹妹性愛貼圖區日本女優貼圖網日本美少女貼圖區亞洲風暴情色貼圖網哈啦聊天室美少女自拍貼圖辣妹成人情色網台北女孩情色網辣手貼圖情色網AV無碼女優影片男女情色寫真貼圖a片天使俱樂部萍水相逢遊戲區平水相逢遊戲區免費視訊交友90739免費視訊聊天辣妹視訊 - 影音聊天網080視訊聊天室日本美女肛交美女工廠貼圖區百分百貼圖區亞洲成人電影情色網台灣本土自拍貼圖網麻辣貼圖情色網好色客成人圖片貼圖區711成人AV貼圖區台灣美女貼圖區筱萱成人論壇咪咪情色貼圖區momokoko同學會視訊kk272視訊情色文學小站成人情色貼圖區嘟嘟成人網嘟嘟情人色網 - 貼圖區免費色情a片下載台灣情色論壇成人影片分享免費視訊聊天區微風 成人 論壇kiss文學區taiwankiss文學區

7:07 AM, March 22, 2009  
Blogger 平平 said...

^^ nice blog!! ^@^

徵信, 徵信網, 徵信社, 徵信社, 感情挽回, 婚姻挽回, 挽回婚姻, 挽回感情, 徵信, 徵信社, 徵信, 徵信, 捉姦, 徵信公司, 通姦, 通姦罪, 抓姦, 抓猴, 捉猴, 捉姦, 監聽, 調查跟蹤, 反跟蹤, 外遇問題, 徵信, 捉姦, 女人徵信, 女子徵信, 外遇問題, 女子徵信, 外遇, 徵信公司, 徵信網, 外遇蒐證, 抓姦, 抓猴, 捉猴, 調查跟蹤, 反跟蹤, 感情挽回, 挽回感情, 婚姻挽回, 挽回婚姻, 外遇沖開, 抓姦, 女子徵信, 外遇蒐證, 外遇, 通姦, 通姦罪, 贍養費, 徵信, 徵信社, 抓姦, 徵信, 徵信公司, 徵信社, 徵信公司, 徵信社, 徵信公司, 女人徵信,

徵信, 徵信網, 徵信社, 徵信網, 外遇, 徵信, 徵信社, 抓姦, 徵信, 女人徵信, 徵信社, 女人徵信社, 外遇, 抓姦, 徵信公司, 徵信社, 徵信社, 徵信社, 徵信社, 徵信社, 女人徵信社, 徵信社, 徵信, 徵信社, 徵信, 女子徵信社, 女子徵信社, 女子徵信社, 女子徵信社, 徵信, 徵信社, 徵信, 徵信社, 徵信社,

徵信, 徵信社,徵信, 徵信社, 徵信, 徵信社, 徵信, 徵信社, 徵信, 徵信社, 徵信, 徵信社, 徵信, 徵信社, 徵信, 徵信社, 徵信, 徵信社, 徵信, 徵信社, 徵信, 徵信社, 徵信, 徵信社, 徵信, 徵信社, 徵信, 徵信社, 徵信, 徵信社, 外遇, 抓姦, 離婚, 外遇,離婚,

徵信社,徵信, 徵信社, 徵信, 徵信社, 徵信,徵信社, 徵信社, 徵信, 外遇, 抓姦, 徵信, 徵信社, 徵信, 徵信社, 徵信, 徵信社, 徵信社, 徵信社, 徵信社,徵信,徵信, 徵信, 外遇, 抓姦

1:57 AM, March 30, 2009  
Blogger nini said...

85cc免費影城 愛情公寓正妹牆川藏第一美女 成人影片 情色交友網 美女視訊 美女視訊 視訊情人高雄網 JP成人影城 383成人影城 aa片免費a片下載 a片線上看aa片免費看 ※a片線上試看※sex520免費影片※ aa片免費看 BT成人論壇 金瓶影片交流區 自拍美女聊天室 aa片免費a片下載 SEX520免費影片 免費a片 日本美女寫真集 sex520aa免費影片 sex520aa免費影片 BT成人網 Hotsee免費視訊交友 百分百貼影片區 SEX520免費影片 免費視訊聊天室 情人視訊高雄網 星光情色討論版 正妹牆 383成人影城 線上85cc免費影城 85cc免費影城 85cc免費影城 85cc免費影城 ※免費視訊聊天室※ ※免費視訊聊天室※ 免費視訊聊天室 85cc免費影片 85cc免費影片 080苗栗人聊天室 080苗栗人聊天室 080中部人聊天室 080中部人聊天室 免費a片下載 免費a片 AA片免費看 aa片免費看 aa片免費看 aa片免費看 aa片免費看 日本av女優影片 av女優 av女優無碼影城 av女優 av女優 百分百成人圖片 百分百成人圖片 視訊情人高雄網 電話交友 影音電話交友 絕色影城 絕色影城 夜未眠成人影城 夜未眠成人影城 色咪咪影片網 色咪咪影片網 色咪咪影片網 色咪咪影片網 色咪咪影片網 免費色咪咪貼影片 免費色咪咪貼影片 色情遊戲 色情遊戲 色情遊戲 色情遊戲 影音視訊交友網 視訊交友網 080視訊聊天室 ※免費視訊聊天室※ ※免費視訊聊天室※ 視訊聊天室 成人影音視訊聊天室 ut影音視訊聊天室 ※免費視訊聊天室※ 視訊ukiss聊天室視訊ukiss聊天室 視訊交友90739 視訊交友90739 情人視訊網 168視訊美女 168視訊美女 168視訊美女 視訊美女館 視訊美女館 免費視訊美女網 小高聊天室 小高聊天室 aio交友聊天室 aio交友聊天室 交友聊天室 交友聊天室 線上a片 線上a片 線上a片 線上a片 線上a片 免費線上a片 免費線上a片 嘟嘟成人網站 成人漫畫 情色文學 嘟嘟成人網 成人貼圖區 情色文學成人小說 微風成人區 情色貼圖區 免費視訊聊天 免費成人圖片區 愛情公寓 愛情公寓聊天室 寄情築園小遊戲 免費aa片線上看 aa片免費看 情色SXE聊天室 SEX情色遊戲 色情A片 免費下載 av女優 俱樂部 情色論壇 辣妹視訊 情色貼圖網 免費色情 聊天室 情人視訊聊天室 免費a片成人影城 免費a片-aa片免費看 0204貼圖區 SEX情色 交友聊天-線上免費 女優天堂 成人交友網 成人情色貼圖區 18禁 -女優王國 080視訊美女聊天室 080視訊聊天室 視訊交友90739 免費a片 aio 視訊交友網 成人影城-免費a片※免費視訊聊天※85cc免費影片日本線上免費a片 免費色咪咪影片免費色咪咪影片aaa片免費看影片aaa片免費看成人影城免費色咪咪影片

1:47 PM, April 05, 2009  
Blogger 天天看正妹 said...

免費視訊聊天 ut聊天室辣妹視訊UT影音視訊聊天室 吉澤明步QQ美女視訊秀 85cc免費影片aa影片下載城sex免費成人影片aaa片免費看短片美女視訊 sex383線上娛樂場av969 免費短片日本免費視訊aa影片下載城視訊網愛聊天室影音視訊交友 咆哮小老鼠分享論壇sex520免費影片aa免費影片下載城aio辣妺視訊 aio辣妹交友愛情館 jp成人影片aio交友愛情館馬子免費影片免費線上a片18成人85cc影城0204movie免費色咪咪視訊網pc交友s383視訊玩美女人34c高雄視訊聊天jp成人免費視訊辣妹 kk777視訊俱樂部xxxpandalive173影音視訊聊天室 sex520-卡通影片成人免費視訊 完美女人13060 免費視訊聊天sexy girl video movie辣妹妹影音視訊聊天室UT視訊美女交友視訊情色網百事無碼a片dvd線上aa片免費看18禁成人網ut聊天室kk俱樂部視訊激情網愛聊天 情人小魔女自拍卡通aa片免費看夜未眠成人影城aio性愛dvd辣妹影片直播拓網視訊交友視訊聊天室ggoo168論壇視訊辣妹love104影音live秀 美女show-live視訊情色yam交友辣妹妹影音視訊聊天室s383情色大網咖視訊aaa俱樂部台灣情色網無碼avdvdsexy diamond sex888入口Show-live視訊聊天室

2:02 AM, April 14, 2009  
Blogger 天天看正妹 said...

免費 a 片aaaaa片俱樂部影片aaaaa片俱樂部dodo豆豆聊天室sex520網路自拍美女聊天室天堂免費線上avdvd援交av080影片aa影片下載城aaa片免費看短片成人圖片區18成人avooogo2av免費影片sexdiy影城免費線上成人影片bonbonsex0951影片下載日本av女優sex888免費看影片免費視訊78論壇辣妹有約辣妹no31314視訊dudu sex免費影片avdvd情色影片免費色咪咪影片網av080免費試看日本美女寫真集辣妹脫衣麻將視訊聊天室性福免費影片分享日本美女寫真集,kk視訊aio交友愛情館免費成人美女視訊bt論壇色情自拍免費a片卡通tw 18 net卡通18美少女圖色情漫畫777美女小護士免費 aa 片試看百分百成人情色圖片a片免費觀賞sexy girls get fuckedsexy girl video movie情色文學成人小說sex888免費看eyny 伊莉論壇sexdiy影城自拍情色0204movie免費影片aio免費aa片試看s383情色大網咖sexy girl video movie草莓牛奶AV論壇台灣論壇18禁遊戲區環球辣妹聊天室 90691拓網aio交友愛情館拓網學生族視訊777美女 sex888影片分享區hi5 tv免費影片aa的滿18歲卡通影片sex383線上娛樂場sexdiy影城免費a片線上觀看真人美女辣妹鋼管脫衣秀比基尼辣妹一夜情視訊aio交友愛情館

2:02 AM, April 14, 2009  
Blogger 天天看正妹 said...

小魔女免費影城免費看 aa的滿18歲影片sex383線上娛樂場kk777視訊俱樂部aa的滿18歲影片85cc免費影片a片免費看A片-sex520視訊聊天室v6 0plus論壇sex520免費影片avdvd-情色網qq美美色網ut13077視訊聊天A片-無碼援交東京熱一本道aaa免費看影片免費視訊聊天室微風成人免費視訊聊天 ut聊天室av1688影音視訊天堂免費 a 片85cc免費影城亞洲禁果影城微風成人av論壇sex520免費影片JP成人網免費成人視訊aaa影片下載城免費a片 ut交友成人視訊85cc成人影城免費A片aa的滿18歲影片小魔女免費影片85cc免費影片aaa片免費看短片aa影片下載城aaaaa片俱樂部影片aaaaa片俱樂部aa的滿18歲影片小魔女免費影片台灣論壇免費影片後宮0204movie免費影片免費卡通影片線上觀看線上免費a片觀看85cc免費影片免費A片aa影片下載城ut聊天室辣妹視訊UT影音視訊聊天室 日本免費視訊aaaa 片俱樂部aaaa片免費看影片免費視訊78論壇情色偷拍免費A片免費aaaaa片俱樂部影片aa影片下載城色漫畫帝國av俱樂部aaaa彩虹頻道免費影片 杜蕾斯成人免費卡通影片線上觀看85cc免費影片線上觀賞免費線上歐美A片觀看免費a片卡通aaa的滿18歲卡通影片sex520免費影片免費 a 片

2:02 AM, April 14, 2009  
Blogger 徵信 said...

外遇外遇外遇外遇外遇外遇外遇外遇外遇 外遇
外遇 外遇外遇 外遇 外遇
外遇 外遇 外遇
外遇


外遇 外遇
外遇
外遇 外遇外遇
外遇

外遇 外遇外遇 外遇 外遇 , 外遇 , 外遇 , 外遇 , 外遇 , 外遇 , 外遇 , 外遇 , 外遇 , 外遇 ,
外遇 外遇 外遇 , 外遇 , 外遇 , 外遇 , 外遇 , 外遇 , 外遇 , 外遇 , 外遇 , 外遇 , 外遇 , 外遇 , 外遇外遇 外遇外遇 外遇 外遇

外遇 外遇

外遇 , 外遇 , 外遇 , 外遇 , 外遇 , 外遇 , 外遇 , 外遇 , 外遇 , 外遇 , 外遇 , 外遇 , 外遇 , 外遇 , 外遇 , 外遇 , 外遇 , 外遇 , 外遇 , 外遇 , 外遇 , 外遇 , 外遇 , 外遇 , 外遇 , 外遇 , 外遇 , 外遇 , 外遇 , 外遇 , 外遇 , 外遇 , 外遇 , 外遇 , 外遇 , 外遇 , 外遇 , 外遇 , 外遇 , 外遇 , 外遇 , 外遇 , 外遇 , 外遇 , 外遇 , 外遇 , 外遇 , 外遇 , 外遇 , 外遇 , 外遇 , 外遇 , 外遇 , 外遇 , 外遇 , 外遇 , 外遇 , 外遇 , 外遇 , 外遇 , 外遇 , 外遇 , 外遇 , 外遇 , 外遇 , 外遇 , 外遇 , 外遇 , 外遇 , 外遇 , 外遇 , 外遇 , 外遇 , 外遇 , 外遇 , 外遇 , 外遇 , 外遇 , 外遇 , 外遇 , 外遇 , 外遇 , 外遇 , 外遇 , 外遇 , 外遇 , 外遇 , 外遇 , 外遇 , 外遇 , 外遇 , 外遇 , 外遇 , 外遇 , 外遇 , 外遇 , 外遇 , 外遇 , 外遇 , 外遇 , 外遇 , 外遇 , 外遇 , 外遇 , 外遇 , 外遇 , 外遇 , 外遇 , 外遇 , 外遇 , 外遇 , 外遇 , 外遇 , 外遇 , 外遇 , 外遇 , 外遇 , 外遇 , 外遇 , 外遇 , 外遇 , 外遇 , 外遇 , 外遇 , 外遇 , 外遇 , 外遇 , 外遇 , 外遇 , 外遇 , 外遇 , 外遇 , 外遇 , 外遇 , 外遇 , 外遇 , 外遇 , 外遇 , 外遇 , 外遇 , 外遇 , 外遇 , 外遇 , 外遇 , 外遇 , 外遇 , 外遇 , 外遇 , 外遇 , 外遇 , 外遇 , 外遇 , 外遇 , 外遇 , 外遇 , 外遇 , 外遇 , 外遇 , 外遇 , 外遇 , 外遇 , 外遇 , 外遇 , 外遇 , 外遇 , 外遇 , 外遇 , 外遇 , 外遇 , 外遇 , 外遇 , 外遇 , 外遇 , 外遇 , 外遇 , 外遇 , 外遇 , 外遇 , 外遇 , 外遇 , 外遇 , 外遇 , 外遇 , 外遇 , 外遇 , 外遇 , 外遇 , 外遇 , 外遇 , 外遇 , 外遇 , 外遇 , 外遇 , 外遇 , 外遇 , 外遇 , 外遇 , 外遇 , 外遇 , 外遇 , 外遇 , 外遇 , 外遇 , 外遇 , 外遇 , 外遇 , 外遇 , 外遇 , 外遇 , 外遇 , 外遇 , 外遇 , 外遇 , 外遇 , 外遇 , 外遇 , 外遇 , 外遇 , 外遇 , 外遇 , 外遇 , 外遇 , 外遇 , 外遇 , 外遇 , 外遇 , 外遇 , 外遇 , 外遇 , 外遇 , 外遇 , 外遇 , 外遇 , 外遇 , 外遇 , 外遇 , 外遇 , 外遇 , 外遇 , 外遇 , 外遇 , 外遇 , 外遇 , 外遇 , 外遇 , 外遇 , 外遇 , 外遇 , 外遇 , 外遇 , 外遇 , 外遇 , 外遇 , 外遇 , 外遇 , 外遇 , 外遇 , 外遇 , 外遇 , 外遇 , 外遇 , 外遇 , 外遇 , 外遇 , 外遇 , 外遇 , 外遇 , 外遇 , 外遇 , 外遇 , 外遇 , 外遇 , 外遇 , 外遇 , 外遇 , 外遇 , 外遇 , 外遇 , 外遇 , 外遇 , 外遇 , 外遇 , 外遇 , 外遇 , 外遇 , 外遇 , 外遇 , 外遇 , 外遇 , 外遇 , 外遇 , 外遇 , 外遇 , 外遇 , 外遇 , 外遇 , 外遇 , 外遇 , 外遇 , 外遇 , 外遇 , 外遇 , 外遇 , 外遇 , 外遇 , 外遇 , 外遇 , 外遇 , 外遇 , 外遇 , 外遇 , 外遇 , 外遇 , 外遇 , 外遇 , 外遇 , 外遇 , 外遇 , 外遇 , 外遇 , 外遇 , 外遇 , 外遇 , 外遇 , 外遇 , 外遇 , 外遇 , 外遇 , 外遇劈腿劈腿劈腿劈腿劈腿劈腿劈腿劈腿喜帖囍帖卡片外遇外遇 外遇 外遇外遇 外遇
外遇 外遇 外遇 外遇剖析 外遇調查 外遇案例 外遇諮詢 偷情 第三者外遇話題 外遇發洩 感情挽回 徵信社 外遇心態 外遇 通姦 通姦罪 外遇徵信社徵信社外遇 外遇 抓姦徵信協會徵信公司 包二奶 徵信社 徵信 徵信社 徵信社 徵信社 徵信社 徵信 徵信 婚姻 婚前徵信 前科 個人資料 外遇 第三者 徵信社 偵探社 抓姦 偵探社 偵探社婚 偵探社 偵探社偵探家事服務家事服務家電維修家事服務家事服務家事服務家事服務家事服務持久持久持久持久持久持久持久離婚網頁設計徵信社徵信社徵信徵信社外遇離婚協議書劈腿持久持久持久持久持久劈腿剖析徵信徵信社外遇外遇外遇外遇徵信社徵信社徵信社徵信社徵信社徵信社徵信徵信社徵信徵信徵信徵信徵信徵信徵信徵信徵信徵信徵信徵信徵信徵信徵信徵信徵信徵信徵信徵信徵信徵信徵信徵信社徵信社徵信社徵信社徵信社徵信社徵信社徵信社徵信公會 徵信公會 徵信公會 徵信公會 徵信公會 徵信公會 徵信公會 徵信公會 徵信公會 徵信公會 徵信公會 徵信公會 徵信公會 徵信公會 徵信公會 徵信公會 徵信公會 徵信公會 徵信公會 徵信公會 徵信公會 徵信公會 徵信公會 徵信公會 徵信公會 徵信公會 徵信公會 徵信公會 徵信公會 徵信公會 徵信公會 徵信公會 徵信公會 徵信公會 徵信公會 徵信協會 徵信協會 徵信協會 徵信協會 徵信協會 徵信協會 徵信協會 徵信協會 徵信協會 徵信協會 徵信協會 徵信協會 徵信協會 徵信協會 徵信協會 徵信協會 徵信協會 徵信協會 徵信協會 徵信協會 徵信協會 徵信協會 徵信協會 徵信協會 徵信協會 徵信協會 徵信協會 徵信協會 徵信協會 徵信協會 徵信協會 徵信協會 徵信協會 徵信協會 徵信協會 徵信協會 徵信協會 徵信協會 徵信公會 徵信協會 徵信協會 徵信協會 徵信協會 徵信協會 徵信協會 徵信協會 徵信公會 徵信協會 徵信協會 徵信協會 徵信協會 徵信協會 徵信協會 徵信協會 徵信協會 徵信協會 徵信協會 徵信協會 徵信協會 徵信協會 徵信協會 徵信協會 徵信協會 劈腿 劈腿 劈腿 劈腿 劈腿 劈腿 劈腿 劈腿 劈腿 劈腿 劈腿 劈腿 劈腿 劈腿

3:07 AM, April 20, 2009  
Blogger 1314 said...

視訊做愛視訊美女無碼A片情色影劇kyo成人動漫tt1069同志交友網ut同志交友網微風成人論壇6k聊天室日本 avdvd 介紹免費觀賞UT視訊美女交友..........................

10:41 PM, May 19, 2009  
Blogger 1122 said...

080視訊聊天室080視訊聊天室080視訊聊天室0951成人頻道下載0951成人頻道下載0951成人頻道下載0951成人頻道下載0951成人頻道下載080聊天室080聊天室080聊天室080cc成人色網080cc成人色網080cc成人色網0204movie免費影片0204movie免費影片0204movie免費影片0204movie免費影片

10:59 PM, June 07, 2009  

Post a Comment

<< Home