Tuesday, October 11, 2005

Men, Depression and Suicide

I was particularly distraught to read that David Perino, a teacher in Prince William county falsely accused of sexual abuse, (and who subsequently lost his job) mentioned the suicide of another male teacher who had gone through a similar experience. As a psychologist, I wonder if his mention of the other teacher's suicide is a reflection of how he feels inside. Job loss is a major blow to men and a trigger for suicide. In Japan, out of 33,000 suicides in 1999, one half of the victims was unemployed.

Suicide among men and boys is also a disturbing trend in the US--four times as many men kill themselves as women. Given that Mr. Perino is a teacher and highly educated, he is at a higher risk for suicide as the more highly educated a person is, the more likely he is to follow through with suicide. Perhaps an educated person has more to lose when they suffer a job loss as they invested a great deal of their life to training for their job.

If women were killing themselves at four times the level of men, there would be an outrage. The talk shows would be buzzing about it and funds would be funneled to programs in schools, colleges and communities just as they are for domestic violence against women.

But apparently, men and boys' lives are expendable in today's sociey--and the worse part is, men and boys are internalizing this belief and are afraid to speak up in the current anti-male climate. Prior to the civil rights movement, African Americans may have felt the same way--dejected and hopeless, so much to the point that they figured nothing would help. Men are taking their lives in record numbers and no one blinks an eye--except for maybe the wives, daughters, sons and family of the deceased. Men's depression and suicide risk affects us all on some level. The first step in understanding this problem is to be willing to hear what men have to say. Maybe if we women would take the focus off ourselves for a moment, they would tell us.

55 Comments:

Blogger Thom said...

I've just barely discovered your blog, and I have to say "thank you." You are touching on some topics that I, as a man, could never get away with, but are nonetheless valid.

I was in my senior year of college studying to be a teacher when I finally decided I just couldn't do it. The first factor was that I had a problem being strict enough (kids are fun, and it was hard to discipline a kid for being a kid). The second was the poor pay.

But another prominant factor was the wall I had to build between myself and the students. The children were typical bright, enthusiastic, affectionate children, who accepted me right away, often running from across the playground to welcome me with a hug around the legs.

I longed to be able to return their hugs, but I knew darn well it would only lead to trouble, so I'd just stand there and try to make eye contact with another teacher to try and communicate my discomfort.

Incidentally, at no point in my education or student teaching did anyone offer me any advice on how to interact safely and appropriately with the children and avoid questionable situations.

I was also single at the time, so I would be setting off all sorts of alarm bells at the Oprah show. I can only wonder how many more good teachers/coaches/volunteers we are losing because we men are deciding it's just not worth the risk.

And though I'm sure I'm going to get dumped on by other commentors, I have to admit that I feel the anti-male climate you talk about. As a religious, conservative, white male I feel like there are any number of people/groups out there just waiting to jump on me if I ever dare complain about anything.

I have to wonder if we aren't experiencing an unexepected side effect from all the efforts to promote diversity and tolerance. Could it be we're actually creating a society that feels even less tolerant? That we're actually encouraging people to divide into groups for self-protection against the other groups forming to promote/force tolerance, when we might not have otherwise?

11:57 AM, October 11, 2005  
Blogger Helen said...

Hi Thom, thanks so much for your comment--I don't think anyone here would jump on you---I think many men (and women) would agree that the anti-male climate is bad for this country. I fear that so many good teachers will leave or never go into these professions because they are male. So many of our kids will miss out on opportunities to engage with male authority figures which they so desperately need. The schools have become so feminized that as far as I can tell, many men have left or are run out. It is a shame.

On your second point, I would say that the tolerance has just shifted--we are more tolerant of some groups while others get the shaft.

12:06 PM, October 11, 2005  
Blogger J. Willard Curtis said...

Great Blog Helen. This post reminded me of a piece I heard on NPR awhile back about how young boys are having a much more difficult time in schools with behaviour problems and learning disabilities -- the speaker's point was that there should be some gender-specific efforts made to help boys, but that for various reasons its not happening.

1:59 PM, October 11, 2005  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Interesting blog, Helen.

Just a point: throughout all of history, men's lives have been 'expendable' in just the way you intend to mean. This is not, actually, a problem, and is a key component in the adult male psyche. (Lack of this self-sacrificing self-conception, by the way, explains the relative dearth of adult male psyches).

The difference being, historically, that those lives were expended for a cause (just or unjust, surprisingly often just: working in coal mines or other dangeous work to support a family, fighting wars, defending against depredation of various kinds).

It's only been in the last 50 years that the dissipation of social mores and the accumulation of extraordinary (compared to human history) wealth has caught us up to the point where men are neither given a particular reason to live (outside of the mundane and/or selfish ones), or are sufficiently under pressure that natural survival instincts take over (people who have no leisure time since they have to milk the cows, plant crops, etc, etc, don't typically kill themselves). It's often the relatively well-off, morally deficient materialists of any age, seeing a pointless life with no greater cause or ends, who are inclined to suicide.

Also, both because men are living longer, and also because of a lack of ends in old age, that explains the relative increase in suicide (http://www.nimh.nih.gov/suicideresearch/suichart.cfm) experienced by older men. Having avoided death until they were no longer materially useful to any cause, and despairing of their declining health, unless they have religion or other greater purpose, they have fewer reasons to put up with life's exegencies. So, they take the route Hunter Thompson did. A pity, but there it is.

Aside from the promogulation of ordered ends that are greater than the current fashion of liberal self-involved self-interest, I fail to see what could be done about it.

7:57 PM, October 11, 2005  
Anonymous Doug Collins said...

I wonder if the climate is not so much anti-male as it is feminized. Certainly the tendency to accept victim status and to look for someone to solve one's difficulties is not a traditionally masculine one.

The recent responses to Katrina - helplessly waiting for the city and state governments to come to the rescue, while those governments themselves rather helplessly waited for the feds, had nothing to do with being anti-male, but they have much to do with an assumed helplessness.

I'm not claiming that helplessness equals femininity, by the way. It does equate to a sort of victorian 'fainting couch' sort of female stereotype that an unthinking man, convinced that he needs to 'get in touch with' something or other, might assume as an alternative to a macho/butch attitude. They are all charicatures. Quiet self reliance takes more effort, but it is more authentically masculine. It is also troublesome, and therefore discouraged, by politicians, bureaucrats, educators and other poohbahs who want to direct people's lives.

-Which may indicate from whence the pressure toward helplessness/feminization comes.

(By the way, I'm new here too. Fascinating blog,)

8:03 PM, October 11, 2005  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

You say that Mr Perino was "falsely accused", but you don't know that. A jury concluded that there was reasonable doubt about his guilt, so he ought not to be jailed; but had his accuser sued him civilly, the same jury, on the same evidence might perhaps have concluded that he probably did it, and should be made to pay damages.

And the standard for firing him must be even lower than that for making him pay damages. Suppose the evidence suggests that a mere 25% likelihood that he did it; that would not be enough to make him pay damages, let alone to imprison him, but do you not think it should be enough to terminate his employment? Would you entrust the Instadaughter to a teacher who you thought was 25% likely to have molested a girl her age in similar circumstances? 20%? 10%? At some point you have to say "look, you're probably completely innocent, but with so many other potential teachers to choose from, who are just as good as you, and are less likely than you to have done something like this, I'd rather go with one of them". This consideration only really disappears when you think the likelihood of his guilt is so low that it's about equal to that of any other teacher you might choose.

Taking away his license is another matter, though. That's not just saying "we can't take the risk of hiring you", but that by law nobody may hire you, even knowing the risk, or they will face charges. Perhaps instead his license should be endorsed with a note saying "potential employers: here's the evidence, you decide what it means".

8:47 PM, October 11, 2005  
Blogger Jennifer said...

I agree that there have been terribly damaging yet untrue accusations of teachers in the past. But, I don't know about making this guy the poster child.

First, the school board said that the fact that pornography was on his school computer was a factor. He denies he downloaded it, insisting that someone else must have entered his classroom and downloaded porn.

Second, I'm not sure what to make of this statement - "I've endured two trials where the only student to take the stand against me was the alleged victim," Perino said before he was stopped. Is this the second time he was accused? Or he is referring to two separate trials with this one victim?

Last, he refused to cooperate with the rules at his own hearing. "Mr. Perino, that is the end of your opening statement. Thank you very much," Beauchamp interjected. "You were warned on four occasions. Let's move to the evidence, please."

All of this is pointed out in an article that clearly supports him. Who knows what was left out. How many allowances do you want to give the guy before it starts adding up to the fact that he doesn't seem to do what he says or what is expected of him?

9:14 PM, October 11, 2005  
Anonymous Adrianne Truett said...

Part of my teacher-training course included the mention that "only 5 percent of sex abuse allegations are intentionally false." Questioning got it out that at least twice that are unintentionally false (misinterpretation). And the intentionally false ones seem to be in custody cases -- one parent will personally accuse or get someone else to accuse the other parent of sexual abuse in order to gain custody. So, at least according to our facilitator, some 15 percent of sex abuse cases are completely false, yet you still get fired or suspended *on suspicion* as soon as an allegation is made, at least in that school system and I'm sure many other places.

9:47 PM, October 11, 2005  
Anonymous Adrianne Truett said...

And, by the way: the "four warnings" appear to be about mentioning the criminal trial before the school board; the "two trials" are the criminal one and the one before the school board. As for ignoring the rules, if you're told you can't point out that a court of law has investigated the matter and cleared you of the charges, wouldn't you be a bit miffed?

9:55 PM, October 11, 2005  
Blogger Jennifer said...

Adrianne - I think you might be mistaken about the "two trials" referring to the school board hearing. The article specifically said that the "alleged victim" did not testify at the school board hearing. That was why his reference to two trials with testimony by alleged victims raised a red flag for me.

Regarding his repeated violations of the rules governing the greivance hearing (which he initiated and which was separate from the hearing held to determine his employment fate), his portrayal in the article was of utter confusion. Perino said he was taken aback by some rules in the hearing. It was another red flag for me. He initiated the hearing and was clueless as to the procedure?

When I come across people who blame everyone around them for everything and portray themselves as helpless at every turn, a red flag goes up for me.

If 85% of accusations are true, I am skeptical that this guy - who's story is fairly sketchy - falls into that 15%.

10:15 PM, October 11, 2005  
Blogger Thom said...

I wonder, according to "anonymous", how many trials must a person go through before they are "proven innocent?" Whatever happened to "innocent until proven guilty?" Has it now morphed to "innocent until we can find a court with lose enough rules to gain a conviction?" Perhaps I would feel differently if it were my daughter. But I think my point is that we might want to consider that the decision of a jury who heard all the evidence and testimony may be more accurate than our own judgements based on a news article.

To put it another way, if you were in the innocent 15%, who would YOU want people to believe, the jury or the media?

I wonder how Oprah feels about Mary Kay Latourneau and whether she should be out on parole already.

11:54 PM, October 11, 2005  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

After I was "investigated" (never officially accused) it took a month before I could clear my name, and that took a polygraph.

I went into a deep depression, gave up on my career, got another job which I lost after a suicide attempt, lost my family, and have been in and out of hospitals ever since. I currently live on SSDI and VA benefits.

I remember when my daughter was about 12 and was visiting me for a summer. She slept on the bed in the bedroom and I slept on a mattress on the floor in the livingroom. One evening some movie was coming on that my daughter was excited to see. She lay on the mattress with me and snuggled close as the movie started.

I remember thinking, though I had done nothing wrong, how guilty I would look if anyone saw us there on the floor.

It's been 11 years since I was investigated. I'm still not over the experience.

12:09 AM, October 12, 2005  
Blogger Doug said...

Odysseus was described as becoming capable of overcoming feminine wiles through being introduced to the virtue of a plant with a dark root and a milky white flower. The usual assumption is that this was an herb that he ate. However, his eating the plant is never mentioned; in fact, I speculate that eating it would have been painful.

12:29 AM, October 12, 2005  
Blogger Jennifer said...

Thom - Whatever happened to "innocent until proven guilty?"

He is innocent until proven guilty in the eyes of the court. That entitles him to rights not privileges like specific employment.

For the record, the first jury was hung. So, a good number of jurors heard the evidence and did not vote to acquit him. Also, keep in mind that in his trial, significant evidence was excluded to preserve his rights. We actually are provided more information, although with less detail, than the jury received.

I tend to agree with you that I'm not willing to say this guy definitely did what he was accused of. But it comes down to priorities in cases like this. Do the rights of the possibly falsely accused trump the rights of possibly molested children?

As far as the school board is concerned, clearly they preferred to limit their liability and avoid the possibility of future students being molested. Is that fair to the guy? Probably not. Is it fair to the children, parents and school board to be forced to take the chance? I'd say no.

"Better that ten guilty persons escape than that one innocent suffer" - I guess the question is how far do we want take that concept?

2:12 AM, October 12, 2005  
Blogger Pogo said...

Jennifer,
I believe you make some good points. However, you expose a difficulty for men who are in fact falsely accused of abuse: it is impossible to prove yourself innocent of an accusation of sexual abuse. The accusation is believed by virtually everyone, your denials mean nothing.

A male friend of mine got out of inpatient adolescent psychology treatment programs immediately after a young woman told him she could accuse him at any time, and despite the video cameras and "always two adults with any one patient" rule, she knew he would be fired. He works with old men at a VA hospital now.

I was once accused by a 50 year old woman of abuse for performing a routine pelvic exam at her physical. She brought the complaint one year after the exam, and by that time I didn't remember her at all. I was cleared by the police, through whom I discovered that the lawyer she had engaged to sue me had advised her to file the criminal complaint at that late date (the lawyer was the first person she complained to). It's a nice way for attorneys to get free 'discovery', BTW.

Despite being cleared, I told no one about this. Maybe I never will. Many people mistakenly believe that no one would make such an accusation unless it were true, even if only partially. There's no defense against that; a man's only options are moving away or dying.

8:21 AM, October 12, 2005  
Blogger Pogo said...

And jennifer, as for
"Better that ten guilty persons escape than that one innocent suffer" - I guess the question is how far do we want take that concept?

Certainly one wants to mitigate risk. By this measure, the school board's actions might seem fair. However, the unintended consequences are obvious to every male teacher in that school district. You will almost certainly be fired for being accused, because 'no one wants to take a chance'. The younger men are likely to leave the district, or leave teaching altogether. The older ones will take very defensive actions to avoid any and all contact with students outside of classroom time (e.g. recording devices), and college boys will reject education degrees.

The implicit message in all this is that only women can be teachers and caregivers for children. Thus, we return to the year 1900. Congrats.

8:33 AM, October 12, 2005  
Blogger Jennifer said...

Pogo - I hear what you are saying. I guess that's why this is such a difficult dilemma.

2:43 PM, October 12, 2005  
Anonymous htom said...

It would be interesting to know if the first jury hung with 11 wanting to acquit or 11 wanting to convict. We don't get to know that. We do know that the school board doesn't agree with the idea of innocent until proven guilty; they prefer the easier guilty if accused. May they enjoy such treatment when they're the accused.

There is no "proof of innocence" for such a toxic charge. There is no difficult dilemma here. What there is here is bigotry-in-action.

3:01 PM, October 12, 2005  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Here's some figures for male suicide.

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2005/10/11/AR2005101101780.html

7:26 PM, October 12, 2005  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

As a white american male who has twice attempted suicide, I want to say that the reasons for my suicide came not from females or a feminized culture but from males:

* Bullying at school.
* Bullying at home by my father.

As a result of this persistent, almost daily bullying (both at home and at school), as a boy one thing I learned and learned very well was to hate men. I truly hated men. Consequently, with the onset of puberty I became that which I hated--a man; it was a matter of time before I hated myself.

From 16 years on, my life was simply one depressed day after another; I couldn't bear to look at myself in a mirror because I hated myself so much. My attempts at suicide were simply a logical consequence of all that hatred.

Women (mother, teachers, and students), however, unlike men, were generally kind to me.

So I would say to the rest of the commentators that if you think women are the problem, or a significant part of it, take another look at what men are up to and doing to other men. It doesn't even have to be many men; it can just be a minority--bullies in the schools and, perhaps, elite bullies in politics, the courts, and in law enforcement. I would say that men are themselves the biggest problem, even if women figure prominently as trouble-makers.

1:08 AM, October 13, 2005  
Anonymous Richard Aubrey said...

Agree with anonymous.
Men live to strive. Despite our cocoons of wealth and health care and OSHA and all the rest, we still do nutty sports and enlist for wars and take an unholy interest in team sports--not necessarily the technical aspects but the success of "our" side.
We live to die for something. Whether it's watching the back end of a mule go up and down the field until we step on something and die of sepsis, or in a war, or in a mine. And it's generally for somebody else, since dying for ourselves is kind of pointless.
If there is no goal, nothing to try for.... What's the point?

In part, it's why young men try to be heroes of some kind, or at least competent in the world. Young men don't believe they could be loved by women for themselves, but only for what they can do.

When there's nothing left to do, or that the man can do--knees, wind, reaction time, back--there's nothing left.

You want to die in a nursing home?

If you avoid nursing homes the way Rick Rescorla did, fine. But if the chance doesn't come your way to avoid becoming old and pitiful and a burden the way he did....

Crap. I'm getting depressed and I'm not even old.

12:41 PM, October 13, 2005  
Blogger Pluto's Dad said...

Jennifer wrote:
"Do the rights of the possibly falsely accused trump the rights of possibly molested children?"

Then you should lock me up to. My ex girlfriend tried to get me in trouble with police, lying about me, saying I was stalking, harrasing etc.

The only thing that kept me out of jail was the fact that my father was a states attorney and had to pull massive strings.

She NEVER got in trouble for filing false police reports.

Yeah, I guess you can lump me in with this guy as a "potential" threat. I hope you have enough handcuffs for all of us out here.

1:24 PM, October 14, 2005  
Anonymous Carl Pham said...

Being fortunate enough that my job allowed it, I spent a lot of time when my son was in kindergarten through 3rd grade in his school, as one kind of volunteer or another. I made two interesting but sad observations:

(1) Boys hungered for interaction with men in this their major daily activity. I was always surrounded by eager boys. Often they wanted to talk, but oftener they just wanted to be close and listen. My son was universally envied because his dad would come to school and interact on a peer basis with the feminine establishment (teachers and "room moms" -- I was a "room mom" myself, ha ha).

I don't think it's that these boys didn't like the teachers or other mothers; it's just that the entire power structure of their lives in school was female. I have two children, so in 6 years of element school they knew more than 15 teachers, principals, and office staff. Exactly one was male.

I expect the boys tend to feel just as strange as black people under apartheid, where everyone in power was white. It's probably not something they consciously think about, but I'm sure it has a subtle and profound effect on how they see the world and how they see school.

(2) I remember being impressed with the difference based on sex in how adults monitored lunch recess play. If girls got into even a heated argument, they would intervene quickly. If boys got into an argument, or even a shoving match, they would just not see it. It seemed to be a "boys will be boys" kind of attitude. But the result was that the social structure that emerged among the boys at recess was not guided at all by adult understanding. Think "Lord of the Flies," an ugly power structure defined by childish violence and intimidation.

What an unpleasant experience for young boys. And how disappointing that they must learn at such a young age that adults will be quick to restrain them if they attempt violence themselves, but slow to help them if they are the victims of violence.

Some of these observations, and others, left me with a bitter taste in my mouth with respect to public education, at least in California. Once by unfortunate coincidence a political canvasser called me on the evening of a bad day at school. There was a bond measure to be passed to send money to the schools, and the canvasser wanted my support. After my initial reticence, she pulled out her ace card: "Do you realize if this measure passes, almost 100 teachers in the district could lose their jobs?!"

I laughed. "Is that all?" I said, "I was sort of hoping they all would." Aghast silence was the response...

6:21 PM, October 14, 2005  
Blogger Bloghead said...

We tend to forget that man are human too and they have weaknesses. In the age of equality fair attention should be given to men and women alike.

Man and woman is part of the balance that formed our lives. Each can't live without the other. Even in the animal kingdom there are male and female. Only in us human we take things for granted and think that man should shoulder all the trouble in the world (although, sometime they are the cause of problems!)

It's always good to take care of each other.

Good post.

8:55 PM, October 14, 2005  
Blogger timnayar said...

One thing that I have always been bugged by (since it is a recent phenomenon and I am relatively young) is the high prevalence of overweight, lazy, unintelligent, insensitive men on TV and movies. Now, this is nothing to get upset about except for the fact that they are paired with intelligent, generous, and often gorgeous women. For evidence I will cite the Simpsons (Homer and Marge), Family Guy (Peter and Lois), King of Queens (Kevin James' character and his character's wife), Meet the Parents, etc. To me, it is simply astounding how many times I have heard women tell me that because I am a man I am supposedly unintelligent, stubborn, insensitive, uncaring, etc.

Anyway... great blog...

3:24 AM, October 17, 2005  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

as a psychologist, i'm sure you're aware that there are LOTS of explanations for the increased incidence of suicide among males, none of which have ANYTHING to do with the "feminization" of society or a supposed "anti-male" climate.

depression and suicide are certainly serious issues. they are also pandemic issues which deserve attention, without regard to gender.

you are not at all alleviating tensions between the sexes with your oddly persistent focus on gender biases.

2:18 PM, October 18, 2005  
Blogger Helen said...

To anonymous,

The reason for the post was to point out the high incidence of male suicide. Women tend to get treatment for depression--men do not seek it out. I did not say that the anti-male climate was making men kill themselves--I said that there would be a lot more support for women who killed themselves and a focus on getting them help, in a way that for men, there is not.

2:52 PM, October 18, 2005  
Blogger dadvocate said...

there are LOTS of explanations for the increased incidence of suicide among males, none of which have ANYTHING to do with the "feminization" of society or a supposed "anti-male" climate

Of course, there may be explanations that do have to do with feminization and anti-male climate.

Anonymous' response is one reason this problem isn't being addressed - hostile and often off target responses. Accusations of "angry white male," etc.

11:12 AM, October 19, 2005  
Blogger Helen said...

To dadvocate,

I have to agree with you--nothing seems to set people off more than someone sticking up for male rights as well as female, which afterall, I thought was the idea behind "equality between the sexes."

If I had a blog about women's issues and female victimization, I would get nothing but positive feedback. It is quite the unpopular thing to take issue with the way men are treated in our society, particularly if you are a man. Men should not play into this game by going along with female victimization (I know, it is sometimes the only way to get sex) but it is a dangerous way to respond and it actually harms women by telling them that they are not autonomous beings but rather victims of circumstance.

1:36 PM, October 19, 2005  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

dadvocate--interesting. you use the words "angry white male". i certainly never did. all I said was that a serious issue like depression and suicide deserved real attention on its own, without taking it as an opportunity to stir some peripheral shit.

which is exactly what i see helen doing, particularly with her last line, "Maybe if we women would take the focus off ourselves for a moment, they would tell us."

oh, so it's women's fault that men don't get treatment? because we're selfish and self-absorbed? instead of the more accepted reason, which she later mentions in passing in her comments, that "men do not seek it [treatment] out."

such a statement (and this is true of most of helen's blog) is absolutely NOT designed to foster "equality between the sexes", despite her occassional dramatic use of that phrase. rather her blog is designed to pander to males. not even males who are concerned about the anti-male climate, mens'rights, etc. just males. why, she's the oprah or dr. phil of her milieu.

let's face it. most women i know want very much for the men in their lives to talk about their feelings. i know many women who have suggested counseling to the depressed men in their lives. the vast majority get nothing but resistance. i'll let you lay plenty of blame on women. but, no, not this.

9:57 PM, October 25, 2005  
Blogger TestSubjectXP said...

So here a few men are, sharing how they feel about the topic of male suicide. And here you are, striving to put the spotlight back on women, vindicating them at the expense of hearing out another point of view.

Helen's statements like "Maybe if we women would take the focus off ourselves for a moment, they would tell us," were presented as a possibility. Your comments help make them seem like an absolute.

This whole "how dare you say that" attitude that is present in your comments is why men fail to reach out for help. We know we'd just be wasting our breath.

12:22 AM, November 07, 2005  
Anonymous Bert said...

To the anonymous feminist psychologist,

As a Dutch MRA and anti-feminist, who did research on the devastating influence of feminism on western societies, I can tell you that it's not men who should get counseling.
It's man-hating feminists like you that should be put into counseling programs. It's about time that selfish and self-absorbed(yes you are) feminists like you are being knocked off their pedestal.

No matter how hard you yell it's not your fault, there is a tremendous amount of evidence and there is a growing number of men(and women) who no longer buy your crap.

Bert

7:29 AM, November 07, 2005  
Anonymous Chris Key said...

Well said Bert.

The feminists like to project their own flaws onto men as they feel that males are the superior sex. Real women who are proud of their femininity are not afraid of men, and they succeed in life.

Feminists on the other hand are inferior and completely dependent on the genius of the male mind. That is why they require anti-male concepts such as affirmative action and feminist-laws that give impunity to female perpetrators of crime (look at domestic violence laws such as Bill 117, Primary Aggressor Law Act, VAWA).

Feminists do not wish for equality, because such a concept would mean that women are required to take accountability for their actions. Since 1848, the feminists have tried to implement a law system that allows women to financially profit at the expense of men, and this has been performed by not holding women accountable for their behaviour.

Look at the Family court and you will see the anti-male basis is so inundated within the system that evil women are profiting from their horrible behaviour.

Take a look at my the Men's Rights Online site for more information, and remember there is a forum on my site as well.

www.mens-rights.net

8:46 AM, November 07, 2005  
Anonymous Chris Key said...

The societal credence of misandry, female perpetrated violence against men, and the subjugation of boys is derived from the implementation of feminist ideology.

Women are now told that they're very existence is of vast importance, and that it's the duty of men to pamper and worship the female sex for eternity. All of this, despite the fact that 90%+ of inventors are male, and the industrialisation of the world was made possible by MEN.

Society cannot function without men, as they are the driving force behind the industrialisation of the world.

Feminism is dependent upon socialism, as it collects the money that is earned by men and distributes it to women through the form of *Government Funded Feminist Agencies*.

Feminist-minded women are just pure evil, and they have their own selfish agenda in which they wish to be perceived as a *superior* species and offered a perpetual amount of pampering that is derived from the subjugation of the white-male.

Feminism is very similar to National Socialism in ideology, and it's no wonder that Nazism was proudly supported by the German women.

It's time for men to stand up to the feminists.

8:58 AM, November 07, 2005  
Anonymous Em said...

I suspect one of the reasons more men succumb to suicide is that they are less likely to get their posteriors to a doctor for treatment than women. Just trying to get my husband to the MD for a measly physical is akin to pulling teeth.

2:52 AM, January 11, 2006  
Blogger The Gonzman said...

How far do we want to take this, Jennifer? It's not a hard question, it isn't a "difficult dilemma" at all to ask - for someone who isn't a fascist.

"For the children" is probably one of the more pernicious excuses given by totalitarians throughout history to strip people of rights and dignity.

You want someone who is merely accused out of a profession - put your money where your mouth is. Find out how much they make - multiply it by how many working years they have left - factor in benefits - cost of living - and write them a check to buy them out of their careers. Double it for the cost of their good name.

Because if such a suit is ever brought before me as a juror, that's what I will award in a hot minute; and that is before punitive damages.

12:35 AM, March 20, 2006  
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3:34 PM, May 02, 2006  
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