The Rage Behind a Woman's Stare
Yes, this is the headline of a Washington Post column (you may need a subscription to view it) about--you guessed it--women who do too much (thanks to the reader who emailed the article):
I wonder what a Male Death Look would look like? A desperate look that says "Stop with the body guarding, fixing the faucet, mowing the lawn, earning much of the living, the light-bulb changing, the honeydo list.... and on and on."
But we'll probably never know because what men do is not valued by most female journalists and the white knight males who support them in their sexism. In addition, men keep their anger against women to themselves as complaining will only serve to get them tagged as a misgogynist or whiner. This needs to change.
Like our love, women’s anger — the simmering rage toward our families, our mates and assorted males that can turn even the calmest woman’s expression into The Death Look — is always there. Even when it’s the last thing on our minds....
Surprised by my sudden bitterness, I asked, “Why do we keep doing so much with so little help?” “Because no one else will do it,” Ilena snorted. “Because we can’t live in a house that looks like a cyclone went through it,” I added.
Because we’re the wife, we agreed. The mom. The girl.
Millions of Death-Look-wearing women ask, “What can I do?” yet few embrace the obvious answer: “Stop!” Stop with the cleaning, the arranging, the cheerleading, the shopping, the whole relentless shebang. Some who do stop see their homes’ disarray devolve into a chaos that’s unbearable — for them, not their families..
I wonder what a Male Death Look would look like? A desperate look that says "Stop with the body guarding, fixing the faucet, mowing the lawn, earning much of the living, the light-bulb changing, the honeydo list.... and on and on."
But we'll probably never know because what men do is not valued by most female journalists and the white knight males who support them in their sexism. In addition, men keep their anger against women to themselves as complaining will only serve to get them tagged as a misgogynist or whiner. This needs to change.
Labels: men's issues
posted by Helen Smith at 1:06 PM
87 Comments:
I wonder what a Male Death Look would look like?
Probably a lot like the look on the face of the divorced man who set himself on fire on the courthouse steps a couple of months ago.
I would say it is the defeated look of a man who can't understand why he keeps doing more and more of the work around the house, while his wife complains about all the things she does to him, and tells him he isn't doing enough. Just look at the men with the women described in the article to see it. At his most defeated he lands on the courtroom steps lighting himself on fire.
There is a solution to the death look, the nagging, picking up after somebody, being forced to raise kids, being forced to pay for kids that one doesn't want to raise, having to live in a suburban gated community with good schools, being forced to show the underprivileged the right way to live and various other afflictions of married life.....don't get married and don't have kids.
Reminds me of the old farmer who was relaxing in his easy chair while the women and children scurried about cleaning up after dinner. "Why aren't you helping?" he was asked. He scoffed "That's women's work." When asked to elaborate he said "Any work that's in or near the house, not too complicated or physically strenuous, and safe is left for the women and children. Men's work is far from the house, requires mechanical aptitude or physical strength, is dirty and is occasionally dangerous. I do men's work."
hate-pieces like this from the Feminist Medea are propaganda, whose purpose is to rationalize and justify the collective evil that america, through its women, does to boys and men
it's tantamount to whispering in the ears of western women: "See how oppressed you are? See? All us grrls feel that way! So it's RIGHT that we are always raging against men."
thus, the largest prison system in the history of the planet (for MALES) is justified, the vast iniquity in employment, education, law, etc against males is justified
the destruction of fatherhood is justified, collective hatred against masculinity is justified
etc
a very sinister "article" by the despicable washington post, they will answer for their crimes against humanity
There seems to be a larger amount of ego centricism among woman than men with it reaching it's pinnacle in feminism. From Wikipedia: Egocentrism is a personality trait which has the characteristic of regarding oneself and one's own opinions or interests as most important or valid. It also generates the inability to fully understand or to cope with other people's opinions and the fact that reality can be different from what they are ready to accept despite any change in their personal belief
The women in the article provide excellent examples. It's all about them, their feelings and their experiences along with a near complete lack of understanding of how others feel and experience life.
I know not all women are like this, but I see it in my sisters, ex-wives, and many other women I know. Like any other trait there is an overlap between the genders. Men predominantly seem to expect life to be a struggle. That's just the way it is and you find meaning and gratification from how you meet the challenges in you life and overcoming them.
These women are full of rage at being denied their fantasy life. Rather than develop some insight and take a long hard look at themselves, they rage at the world, especially that world that evil men built. Funny, the more women have become liberated, the more they seem to be angry.
As for me, I've been divorced for 14 years, haven't dated in 12. I decided I wanted to live independently and did so. I've almost always had one of my kids living with me full time. It's not a burden, it's a joy. I do all the cooking, 90% of the cleaning. I wash my clothes, my daughter washes hers. I live a modest life, but I'm quite happy. Spoiled angry Americans make me sick. We have it better than anybody in history.
For men who want to get married: You are going to almost uniformly have to listen to this crap.
My solution has been to live apart from my girlfriend. Lo and behold, keeping my house clean (and I really do keep it clean) is almost an afterthought. I don't have to go out and pound stones on my clothes in the nearest creek to wash them, I have a marvelous invention called a "washing machine" - it takes a few minutes to throw my shit in. I have also stopped dragging my rugs out to be beaten on a line, and I no longer use the churn to create butter.
Have these put-upon housewives heard of these marvelous new inventions? I can still dust and keep a full-time job. Don't know how I do it!!
And ... for you men who have to shove your face into other men's faces and tell them how your dumb-shit housewife has a much harder job than yours:
Don't say a word if she requests - and gets - HALF in the divorce. Because you are a deadbeat if her job is much harder than yours ... you should give her most of the marital assets. Deadbeat.
One more thing:
A friend told me that he discovered this when he was involuntarily sent to a different city by his employer for a week.
The wife STILL complained on the telephone to him that she had to pick up everything in the house. It dawned on him that he WASN'T EVEN THERE. Everything she was picking up was HER SHIT. Her yoghurt cups while she watched Dr. Phil. Her mess. And the joke is that she didn't even realize it. She didn't even want to have to pick up after herself.
Good point DADvocate. And women are supposed to be the gender with all the empathy!
Trey
Everything men say, everything men do and everything men are is illegal now. All it takes is one feminist to claim she 'feels' abused by a man and he's a hate-criminal, wife-beater, rapist, whatever she wants to say he is.
I think men tend to put up with more because we don't do "death glares". If we don't rein in our exasperation we're likely to express it more physically, and that can lead to dead women.
Men are taught to exercise self-restraint from an early age because we're so much stronger than most women. Generally this is a good thing, but when it carries over to the point of allowing ourselves to be made into doormats then, as with all virtues taken too far, it becomes self-destructive.
“Because we can’t live in a house that looks like a cyclone went through it,” I added.
I'd probably have a hard time living in a house with frilly curtains, little glass apothecary jars filled with brown and yellow lemon-shaped pieces of soap, and a wife who complained that I didn't make my bed or put the toilet seat down. I don't complain or give a "death glare", though (good observations, Jason!). I just stay single. It gets easier every year.
Mark, I was going to post similar comments. More than once my ex went on trips and when she returned she bitched about how messy the house was. Only problem; the kids and I never made the mess and more than once the kids were gone to friends for the weekend. It was all her crap.
When I moved, I told her I could fit everything I owned in the mini-van. She laughed. Turns out, I fit everything I owned save the mattress in HALF the mini-van. It embarrassed her and for a brief moment, she cleaned and organized the house. Didn't last.
The self pity of this woman and so many other women just like her never ceases to amaze me. Most men of my acquaintance work just as hard or harder than their wives. However, their skills and ability are not necessarily the same as the wife's. Their motivations, interests and desires for the future may not be exactly the same as the wive's - so they work differently but ultimately for the same goal - the good of the family.
But, how often do you hear a man complain because no one properly appreciated the great job he did mowing the lawn? How many times have you heard a man demand that the wife help with the oil change? How many times have you heard a man complain that his wife wanted too much sex from him and what a burden it is to satisfy her? How many newspaper articles have been written on Father's Day comparing the value of a father's work in the home to that of similar work performed by a professional employee?
Both my mom and my dad were professional people. My mom made more money and had complete job security - tenure. My dad worked longer hours and many more days without any job security at all. He was judged on his performance. Around the house he painted and fixed and changed the oil and even did my mom's typing for her. Yet is was only mom that demanded more of him around the house.
The self pity of so many women sickens me, frankly.
It's just grieveance politics brought into the home.
If this keeps going on (the feminists seem to intend to), thereis only one intelligent thing for me to do, buy stock in a vibrator company.
Maybe instead of acting ragefully, women should take some agency for themselves as individuals instead of hiding behind their gender to excuse their own failure and unhappiness.
Just think how much happier they'd be if they admitted: "My work and my money are more important to me than a clean house, so I choose to prioritize those things." Of course, that would require some responsibility rather than knee-jerk blaming.
The plus side is, that if you think about it and decide that no, a clean house actually IS more important to you than the other things you've been prioritizing, you can act on that. Other women have.
> I wonder what a Male Death Look
> would look like?... Men keep their
> anger against women to themselves
Indeed. My wife was having great difficulty managing the kids and the household, and I was having to take up the slack. For years. She'd give lip-service to getting help, to changing, to not neglecting me, but things never changed.
Until the day I moved out.
Your typical American woman is never happy unless she's miserable. She's also largely incapable of self-criticism - due to the narcissism inherent to her gender. Thus, in their need to be bitch about something (ANYthing) they focus their estrogen-powered lasers on the easiest of targets, the American male. When I was married, I did most of the chores (inside and outside the house), because my wife was a manic depressive slob. And yet still she bitched about how difficult life was for her.
The made me think of the angry Mom on an old TV show, 'Malcolm in the Middle' . . an angry control freak locked in desperate battle to subjugate her sons.
I think everyone there would have been happier if they'd put the kids up for adoption.
Loggins & Messina ... Angry Eyes...
Time, time and again
I've seen you starin' out at me.
Now, then and again, I wonder
What it is that you see
[Chorus:]
With those Angry Eyes.
Well, I bet you wish you could
Cut me down with those Angry Eyes...
You want to believe that
I am not the same as you.
I can't concieve, oh no,
What it is you're tryin' to do
[Chorus]
What a shot you could be if
You could shoot at me
With those Angry Eyes...
You tried to defend that
You are not the one to blame.
But I'm finding it hard, my friend,
When I'm in the deadly aim
Of those Angry Eyes.
[Chorus]
What a shot you could be
If you could shoot at me
With those Angry Eyes...
You have never stopped to realize
Blindness binds us together in the foster skies.
Can you see me through those Angry Eyes?
Do that many women have the rage stare? I have my doubts. More likely I think these things are exaggerated by people who like to complain about how gosh darn hard it is to be a woman in a man's world. 68 cents on the dollar and laundry to boot!
I try to keep my complaining to a minimum and I think we're all better for it. Most women are more or less reasonable and appreciate the things we do, even if they sometimes indulge in complaining about the mostly imaginary outrages of mostly imaginary men.
Most of this tension is because of sex. Women find out early that most men will crawl over broken glass and be spit upon if they will be rewarded with sex afterward. These same women also learn that the intervals between sex rewards can get longer and longer as long as the man still thinks he will get to squeeze hams eventually. Forty years into this relationship the man is so numb for letting himself be humiliated for so long in return for so little he wonders how he didn't see it for what it is years ago.
Guys, wake up. You had it right in high school. Date your hand. It is much easier and cheaper and when its over you get to pick the movie. And don't tell me that your marriages are any better.
Sorry, all the mowing and Mcgyyvering gets done by me. Of course I am not a terribly accomplished housekeeper so I suppose I pick what matters to me and am happy.
These women could hire part-time housekeepers for a fraction of what they spend on pampering themselves.
Just sayin'.
Soon after we got married, eight years ago, my wife decoded - unilaterally - that she was leaving the regular workforce to pursue her dreams of being an entrepreneur. I have been, and continue to be, the sole breadwinner in our house.
My wife generates all the mess in our house. From clothing she intends to take to the dry cleaners to coffee cups, to the occasional apple core, it's all just strewn around.
At weekends she regularly declares we're going to do house-tidying projects.
I go to the pub. I don't do death stares.
Wow... what a bunch of whiny, sad commenters.
I wonder what a Male Death Look would look like?
Like this: *sigh* "Yes, dear."
Let he who has no blogs about quiche throw the first stone.
Wow... this isn't why I'm gay, but it sure makes me glad I am.
men keep their anger against women to themselves as complaining will only serve to get them tagged as a misgogynist or whiner.
Then Sam chimes in on cue: Wow... what a bunch of whiny, sad commenters.
You nailed in Helen.
The author it the button when she said "The secret pleasure we take in being so essential". Take that and look at it another way - the secret pleasure of being in control.
Women that have this issue have a vision of what their house, their family, their life should look like. Woe upon the man that interferes with that. The "acquiesing" is merely the death of what they thought were their dreams. Their shock at that fact that they're not getting what they want, so they submerge it and eventually do something - something very female - to strike out later. Not when the "offense" occurs, but later when they've kept it hidden away for years. Then they wonder why the men look at them and wonder - where did that come from?
Not sure everyone is being fair here. If she and hubby both work, and she still does everything around the house, is that fair? I mean, they could at least pick up after themselves, even if they are not doing the washing and cleaning and cooking. I don't think she raised the kids well.
I've been struggling with similar feelings of not being appreciated for all I do. I definitely can relate to the "death stare" and find myself mentally talking myself down out of anger over so many stupid things.
Was I trained to act this way? no idea. I appreciate everything my husband does, including earning the majority of our income. There are times though that I feel under appreciated for all the things I do.
And in this society it's too easy for women to blame the man for everything...something I desperately try to fight against doing myself.
Like our love, women’s anger...is always there.
What a perfect example of the argument by assertion fallacy, as finely-tuned as only the most elite liberal media establishments can make it. Of course the proper response is, "Sez who? Prove it."
And once you know to look for it, you'll find it constantly used in the journals of our supposed intellectual betters. I bet there are lots of upper East Side apartments paid for by this kind of juvenile hackery. Nice work if you can get it.
Q. What does a woman want from a man in a relationship?
A. Everything you have, and then what's left over.
I'm going through this right now. My wife quit the business world to work as a parapro to be home with the kids and keep the house cleaner. Now all I hear is how overwhelmed she is at cleaning the house. Then rage against all us for the mess that is Mostly hers. Her big job? The laundry. I cook and clean the dishes and load and unload the dishwasher every single day. If for some odd reason she decides to cook then there's triple the pots and crap and I still clean it because I view this as my home job. I can tolerate a lived in home but once it gets to the point of my disgust then I'll just clean it. No comments about how sloppy everyone is and that I'm tired of cleaning everything up. It's not overwhelming, you just START. I'm past keeping this relationship because of sex. I mostly keep it because I love my wife. I love my family and want to keep us together even though she's pretty much a mess and full of anger constantly. My boys need me there and it's obvious I'm the parent. I take part in their lives from football practice to reading to them each night before bed. I enjoy it. What I just wish would stop was her delusional life where she's the one doing everything. And yes, doing that much around the house makes it harder to do the yard work too. But while everyone is watching tv, I'm getting it done. I'm not sure how anyone could live any other way honestly. Women will lie and cheat to get their way. Mine quit her job which cut our income in half with the full knowledge that pretty much all our luxuries would cease. Now she's planning vacations we can't afford and wanting to move into a bigger house, etc... It was all a lie. So now I'm the bad one for having to be the grown up. But if it's anyone leaving, it'll be her in a huff, not me. I've been up front and honest and now I'm going to stick to it because I have no other choice. Living a false life off credit cards isn't an option. She's welcome to go and find a rich guy who will take her. I get the kids though. But she's too chicken to do that. She'll just continue to rage and I'll continue to tell her to shut it after I get enough of it. And no, I'm not bitching... it's just the way it goes.
Like our love, women’s anger...is always there.
What kind of love co-exists with seething, bug-eyed rage against those objects of her alleged love? She can keep her "love."
Thank you Dr. Helen, had a male written your post, he would have been excoriated as a misogynist for sure!
Let's talk about that death stare for a minute. I understand the death stare, I grew up in a home where there were death stares, rage, control and massive amounts of manipulation and a heaping pile of guilt. What is worse is that my 80 year old mother is still dishing it out. She can't stop because she gets so much satisfaction from being so dysfunctional. My mother is dead certain there is nothing wrong with her, it's just that nobody can live up to her standards.
When I first started dating in my teens I found myself mimicking the death stare behavior and I was disgusted with myself. I didn't want to be my mother. I read a couple of self-help books and a few weeks later I realized I could communicate rationally with anyone. So why is it that women lower themselves to death stares?
I can tell you why. Women are taught that they should be nice at all times. Women feel that if they try to discuss their needs with their romantic partners they will be viewed as nags or bitches. Women don't want to be viewed as nags or bitches, but they sure as heck want what they want. So simple communication takes on different forms. You get the death stare, the passive aggressive behavior, the whining and the guilt from a percentage of women.
The two women in the article could simply have an honest conversation about not leaving dishes in the sink with their husbands and the problem would be solved in 5 minutes. I've lived with more than a few men and have always been able to divide the household chores in half. I don't do death stares and whining.
So here is my advice, if you are dating a woman and she never complains and always has a smile on her face think long and hard before you get married. That's not really her. Every couple has disagreements, the challenge is how they get handled.
Gents, problems aren't resolved when both sides sound exactly like each other. Both sides are then venting useless steam, to no avail.
I say this as a 65 yo who hasn't been married since age 35 so I, sort of, know where everyone is coming from. No kids.
I'm a single dad with a teenage son. After his mom left, I realized that nothing was worse/different, because I had been the one doing all the work anyway, house- and otherwise. Now it's just quieter, and I don't ever have to watch "Gray's Anatomy."
I wonder what a Male Death Look would look like?
Here's a clue. It is not a look. Its two words -- "I quit." Those were the two words I used when I told my first wife its was over. No need for anger, faces or expressions. Just say it and get out.
And yes what men do around the household is neither valued or recognized by most women. Yet they put high value on what they do.
Well, this is spooky- I'm logged in to this account as my second Dead Wife.
( Yeah, I outlived the first one, too. )
Maybe it was just dumb luck but neither one ever pulled this nonsense with me- we talked things over and worked things out, together. Reading this stuff I'm kind of glad I've forsaken "the dating process" friends are trying to foist off on me. I'm seeing the widow of an old friend, and we seem to get alone fine.
BTW Dr. Helen- besides being a fan and promoter of Insty, I have "talked" to your husband a few times electronically- he's a good guy. But I betcha knew that already.
John R, or
backhoe
If she and hubby both work, and she still does everything around the house, is that fair?
I'm sure she doesn't do "everything around the house". Study after study shows that men and women typically split house duties 50/50. The problem is that doing the handy work, cutting the lawn, washing the car, taking the cars in for maintenance, maintaining the house, etc is almost never done by women, but is never included in their calculus for the computation of each other's share of the house work.
It's the standard bias. Men think they do more, while women think they do more. It takes effort to realize that you are wrong, but instead of trying to see the situation for what it is, this woman is merely indulging in unwarranted self-pity.
I realized I could communicate rationally with anyone.... I can tell you why. Women are taught that they should be nice at all times.
I don't agree with this. I think women are taught that they are the masters of communication and if her husband/boyfriend doesn't understand her wants/desires, it's his fault. It's just an assumption that men don't communicate with or comprehend women very well, but women are supposedly masters at communicating with and comprehending men. Using this logic, if there is any misunderstanding, it's the man's fault.
I read the article, and had to admit it ended somewhere I didn't expect:
At some point between fuming about my workload and wondering why anyone so blessed could feel so unseen, I realized: My problem wasn’t just with men, but with women. One woman: Me.
The hardest place to look when you’re assigning blame is the mirror. But some women just didn’t have my problem. Yes, many had mates and kids who gladly contributed more around the house. But there also were women whose shrewdness, self-discipline or training helped them get more of what they needed from their families. Other women simply put up with modern life’s messes. Still others happily took on most family-related tasks — it was as instinctive to them as writing was to me. I admired these women, wished I was one of them.
But I wasn’t. I needed order. And I wasn’t just annoyed by what my guys didn’t see and fix — I was fed up with the part of me that couldn’t stop seeing and fixing stuff for them. Rejecting that giving impulse felt impossible. Surrendering to it felt like defeat.
I knew I was as smart and as capable as any of the men I’d given to — and that for all my anger, I loved having a life where I could use my gifts in both my home and my career. Feminism had provided the blueprints for striking down the barriers that would have prevented that. I couldn’t have been more grateful.
But where was the blueprint for changing . . . me?
I go to work every day. I work side jobs to make extra money for the Disneyland trip, etc. My wife stays home, baths the 3 kids daily, gets them to school, makes dinner, cleans the house, does the shopping, and makes sure the bills all get paid on time. She doesn't spend a minute worrying about where the household money is coming from, and I don't spend a minute worrying if the house is clean or if dinner will be made. That's our trade off, and our marriage is very happy. I have a few chums whose wives don't have to work and their wives complained about how they never did anything for them. 4 of them to be exact. And three are divorced because they got tired of not being appreciated. (One of them actually said to her ex-husband she loves her new husband more than she ever did him because he also spends time with her. Sure he does, since he has been unemployed for 4 years, but I digress) Today's society says it is OK to beat men down, ridicule them, and minimize what they actually do as men, providers, fathers, and husbands. Go look at any sitcom or every third TV commercial to see what I mean. That's OK though, because these whiny and unappreciative women live miserable lives, while my wife and I live a very happy one together.
Let me clarify my last comment on my chum's ex-wife. She pissed and moaned about needing a bigger house for the 3 kids. He was the sole breadwinner, and he got them a house with a $2200 a month mortgage. As a result, he took all the overtime offered. After him working an extra hour or two some nights and a weekend a month for a whole 4 or 5 months, she decided she was lonely and had an affair. When she was caught, she said she was tired of him working too much and that it was his fault he neglected her. Now, she has a new husband and said she loved him more than my pal because "he always has time for her." Well, yeah, the bum has been unemployed for 4 years so he has plenty of time. And she has gone from a nice $2200 a month house to being evicted from rental apartments twice in a year. She of course blames my pal for her problems because, well, that's what society tells women to do. Make mistakes, blame the nearest man. It tells them, you are the victim here, not of your own ridiculously dumb decisions, but of the evil that men do. I'll tell you, I love my wife more than anything, but if I ever got that "death stare" once, there would not be a second time. I appreciate all my wife does. I tell her every day how much I love her and how lucky I am to have her. (She actually complained once about that, so I didn't tell her anything for over a week. She hasn't complained since). She better also realize she is lucky too. I go to work, I don't drink, go to strip joints, or even think about other women, I am always there for the kids, and she gets the nicer car. And, yes, I know I am a pig for saying this. So?
There are women who are not Americans.
I work 50+ hours a week in the financial industry, and am lucky enough to be able to do it from home, so I can see my very young children grow up. My husband is extremely good at his job which requires that he travel 4 - 6 days a week. At the day's end, after working, playing with the kids, putting them to bed, and working some more, I don't feel like cleaning the house and I don't give a damn if the house stays messy. I do try to not give the death stare ever, but it's difficult on those days that my darling complains that the house is a mess. (He cleans it, and he does a much better and faster job than I ever could.)
Before I field hatred, I'll also mention that I do not and never have, kept a "honeydo" list. Nor do I play tennis, lunch with the ladies, or go off on spa trips. My life is home-based right now, because my family and work-hours require it of me, and I'm just fine with that.
"...As a result, he took all the overtime offered. After him working an extra hour or two some nights and a weekend a month for a whole 4 or 5 months, she decided she was lonely and had an affair. ..."
I know a dozen guys who can sing the chorus to that song.
I make 60% of the money and pay 80% of the bills. My wife does most of the dishes and laundry. Still, she bitches about this sometimes. Then she gets my death stare. Actually, according to Moneydance, I'm doing 90% of the paying and she's playing with a lot of her money.
Perhaps my wife is just lucky.
Some years back I read an economic study done by some college students at my alma mater under the direction of a professor. They 'found' that housework was still divided in a matter that was unfair to women.
I wrote to the prof and asked if they had tried to measure the difference in utility each sex derived from a 'clean' house. My wife requires a level of clean far beyond what I consider necessary. Why the implicit demand that a man provide half the labor to provide satisfaction that accrues only to the woman? I.e. the house is clean enough. If she needs to scrub the floor so it is clean enough to eat off to make herself feel better, fine. I'll play golf to make myself feel better.
I also asked why housework should be separated from the total of all chores (yard work, car repair and maintenance, shopping, child care, transportation, coaching youth sports, leading scouts, etc.) which require time and effort on behalf of the family.
Last, I asked if time is the only metric that matters. If he spends an hour sweating and pushing a lawn mower in the heat, is that equal to an hour she spends folding laundry and watching tv?
Never got an answer.
Women are taught that they should be nice at all times.
Well, a whole lot of them didn't learn what they were taught.
It's really just more attempts by women to justify their control freak and domineering attitudes towards men.
When men act like this woman, they are called "abusers".
Women really need to learn to get their negative emotions under control, rather than come up with ways to justify rage towards someone they're supposed to love.
From In That Day Teachings:
Misogyny, Misandry and Androgyny – Emotions between genders can be difficult as shown in the song lyrics: “When I hate you, it is because I love you.” But a man with a misogyny spirit hates women. And a woman with a misandry spirit hates men. Yet God is love. And God is whole. Ergo if a man is to be complete, he must manifest some of the spirits of a woman. Likewise if a woman is to be complete, she must manifest some of the spirits of a man. (But God forbid taking this to homosexual or lesbian behavior.) To manifest the holistic spirits, then, of humankind makes oneself somewhat androgynous. Perhaps this was what Jesus was trying to communicate to Martha when Mary chose to ignore the household (female) duties and assume the discipleship (male) duties of hearkening to the Master. Martha protested to Jesus that Mary was failing her female role. Perhaps Jesus said a higher position is somewhat androgynous. Women say men do not “get it.” Men say women do not “get it.” Maybe Jesus says neither gender will get it until they stop the warfare and meet in the middle. A totally macho, narcissistic, he-male man is rather absurd, no? A totally spike-heeled femme fatale, or Amazonian-I-am-woman woman is also rather absurd, no? The ultimate man washed his disciples’ feet, which seems more androgynous than macho. Life is a balancing act, so perhaps it is time for all of us to get it together, and not be such abominably desolate icons of antagonistic pride-of-gender individuals. In other words, being a good man or being a good woman may not be the ultimate. Perhaps the ultimate is to be God’s good and whole person. Popular culture has made fine commentary on this. See Annie Get Your Gun and “Anything You Can Do I Can Do Better” for vain gender competition. Then there is the song “Let’s Call the Whole Thing Off” by George and Ira Gershwin which says “Things have come to a pretty pass…It looks as if we two will never be one, Something must be done: You like potato and I like patahto, You like tomato and I like tomahto, Potato, patahto; tomato, tomahto; Let’s call the whole thing off…for we know we need each other so we, Better call the calling off off, Let’s call the whole thing off!”
Robert,
You're mixing religion (faith, certainly not logic) with logic (... ergo ...). You just get a mish-mash that seems to be pushing your religion on others, but not much else.
Wife #2 was a fundamentalist feminist. That is, her theme song was not "I am Woman," but a version of Frank Sinatra, e.g., "You'll Do it Myyyyyyy Way."
In her mind, she was the standard of all things good and right and righteous. Any deviation from those standards was not about people being different, it was Wrong and Evil. Naturally, me expecting her feminist principles about honoring individuals for who they were, etc., not applied to me an evil White Male.
Of course, that applied to housework. Anything that was not up to the correct standard was unacceptable.
I got the Death Stare a lot.
There's a reason she's Wife #2.
Point taken, Mark.
How would you make a reference from a wise source, if it was a religious source?
Leave out the reference, because it was from a religious source?
That doesn't seem smart.
In other words, truth is good... no matter the source.
In these posts I am hearing a lot of complaints about women who complain a lot. Hmmm. This post is great because it opens up the subject that perhaps men are not the bad ones - maybe women aren't the bad ones either.
Maybe we live in a culture of complaint and our family and other people close to us bear the brunt of those complaints. Women and men have been complaining about each other (and a lot more) for a very long time.
Perhaps we can step back, just see our mind complaining, and not have to go there with our actions. I have learned to do this much more often than I used to and now my wife complains a lot less about me. Hmmmm.
Now this idea is perhaps a bit Zen but I did learn it thanks to a great team, Ariel and Shya Kane who have written wonderful books. They have helped me in my relationships more than anything else I have encountered. I have no financial stake in their success. I simply crave a world with a lot fewer complaints and less drama.
You can check them out at www.transformationmadeeasy.com. Who knows? It could revolutionize your relationships and your life - it did that for me.
I am struck by many of these heartfelt posts, that people are angry and in pain, and simply talking past each other. There are other possibilities. You do not have to be a prisoner of your own habits, background and culture.
In these posts I am hearing a lot of complaints about women who complain a lot.... Maybe we live in a culture of complaint...
Maybe you fail to understand the point of this blog in the first place. It's not just that women complain. It's that women complain about men and the culture and law are on their side. If police respond to a domestic violence call, the assumption is that it's the man's fault. The man is removed from the premises; the man is placed under arrest; the only thing that can prevent this is overwhelming evidence to the contrary. But all a woman has to do is open her mouth and claim she's been abused.
Women have laid the foundations for a culture that belittles men and created a legal system that is hostile towards men. Then these women complain that, after they've set up a mysandrist society, men aren't crooning for women and that chivalry is dead. The point "Dr" is that women are the cause of the their own heartache, yet still they blame men, instead of themselves.
I am struck by many of these heartfelt posts... simply talking past each
other
Yeah. The way you've completely talked past the very point of this blog, much less this post, and focused on calling everyone a complainer, without even acknowledging that some are legitimate, while others, well, not so much.
My point is that everyone is a complainer - you just don't have to act on it. In doing the simple act of observing your mind's complaints without acting on them, you will be happier and in turn receive fewer complaints from others including your wife or girlfriend.
I agree that the state meddles in our lives to an immoral degree including your points, but innumerable others. I am a libertarian so I am eager to see enormous changes in the way our states' dominate us. I am an advocate of revolutionary changes there.
Playing complaint and anger ping pong with my loved ones serves no one, no matter how legitimate I feel those complaints are. Been there and done that - it made me miserable and bitter until I adopted this new approach. If you want to score points and be right, keep voicing those complaints. If you want to be happy with another person, you might try something else.
"... until I adopted this new approach."
----------------
So if I follow your new approach that you developed in your laboratory, I will be happy?
Gosh darn it, I'm miserable and bitter, and I play complaint and anger ping pong with my loved ones. I also get irritated with condescending people who already include some title in their name. OK, I'm ready!
Where do I sign, Doctor?
Oops. I clicked on your name and see the title you have to immediately shove on others is just "dentist".
But since I'm just a middle-school grad working on my GED, you probably still know a lot more than me about life and stuff.
Frankly, the problem is that men don't speak up enough and don't complain enough.
I see so many men who work their butts off for the boss and then come home to the boss.
Yes, dear. No, dear. I will carry your orders out to the letter, dear. I'm sorry I haven't fulfilled all of your childhood fairy-tale fantasies, dear. I will work harder so that you can have more luxury, dear.
Sooner or later, even the most clueless man is going to start buckling. I watch this crap and wonder why it is this way.
Men: Wait about 3-5 years before you even consider marriage. I don't care who the woman is, the sex part will start cooling down a bit after 3-5 years. Then you can start to see what she really is. And for most women, it's not pretty what's underneath the pretty exterior. You want to sacrifice your money, time and entire life to her?
Seriously, just give it a while.
Dr. John Campbell:
If you think you've got a good approach, just put it out there for debate.
I am really getting sick of arrogant dip-wads.
My wife and I (13 years) honor each other in Christ. Perfect relationship? No; we're human and deeply flawed in our own unique ways. But none of the woes mentioned above come up; or if they do, they're dealt with quickly.
Lucky? No. Following the true blueprint for marriage. Nothing else works.
Being hypnotized to some religion is great until one party - lots of time the woman - starts to question it.
Then the religious guy doesn't know what to make of it and falls apart if she leaves. By the way, I've seen statistics that strongly believing Christians, especially Bible Belt Christians, divorce at a HIGHER rate than the normal populace.
Frankly, I'll take reality, whatever it is. I hate to use the analogy, but sometimes people who both use drugs stay together for a long while and feel that they are connected.
Me personally? My woman is home in Islam. She can only go out in a hefty Burka with two adult family males accompanying her.
Lucky? No, she is going to get stoned if she tries something. That is my blueprint for marriage, and believe me, it works. If she wants to get divorced, she will also get stoned to death. Our marriage works.
Will wrote:
"Men: Wait about 3-5 years before you even consider marriage."
Sage advice. It reminds me of this: "Many a man has fallen in love with a girl in light so dim he would not have chosen a suit by it."
I have seen this attributed to Maurice Chevalier, but it might have first been said by Ben Franklin.
Trey
frankenstyrene, works for me and my wife.
I missed the hypmotized part though. 8)
Trey
NotNowIHaveAHeadache: "Women find out early that most men will crawl over broken glass and be spit upon if they will be rewarded with sex afterward."
No, they don't "find" this "out;" it's a silly stereotype they cling to.
Of course, if you're one of the few men who actually FIT this description, then you have only yourself to blame.
Sage advice. It reminds me of this: "Many a man has fallen in love with a girl in light so dim he would not have chosen a suit by it."
oscar wilde?
anyway, if you find yourself needing to challenge a woman on her points of view, do it well before matrimony.....
interestingly (to those of us who study such things) most of the transactions between men and women in the marriage frame (especially as reported here) are between a little boy looking for approval and an unavailable mother.
if you find yourself playing either of these roles (games) with the person you love, and derive not-ok outcomes as a result, get some help.
Dr Alistair -
It was Maurice Chevalier (although the attribution to Oscar Wilde certainly fits).
Dr John Campbell is a perfect example of someone, who by being credentialed as a 'Dr.', cannot see his own cognitive dissonance.
Such men have a pathological denial about what the true problem is - that most women are just not capable of behaving like responsible adults.
kmg,
It's because they *can* act that way. And they *can* act that way because of the chivilry of most men in society.
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I don't get this anti-marriage attitude in here. If good, educated people refuse to procreate, then all the procreation will be by uneducated 3rd worlders and they shall inherit the civilization you worked so hard to build and maintain.
I've learned not to try to social engineer anything, Alex. As if you can change overall trends in the world without introducing unexpected consequences.
The USA and Western World may well fall just like the Roman Empire did. And then civilization keeps bumping and lurching forward. And then the sun burns out (maybe you can start working on THAT problem, because it's a doozy, but you've got a few billion years).
But individual men who marry today are nothing short of moronic. I'm not married, I have no financial obligations to any woman at all (e.g. child support), and I am happy that way. I see a friend, however, who is paying ALIMONY to a pig who won't get her rear end off the couch, who gets supported anyway by the new live-together boyfriend, and who is milking the system for all it's worth.
And I also see chivalrous dudes who tell me their housewife is super-duper and "has the hardest job in the world". And then I accept his invitation to dinner in his home and see a using woman who gets on him to do his "half" in the household - although she doesn't do her "half" in the earning department or in the chores-of-men-at-home department (that doesn't "count"), and everyone ignores it. A stupid bitch that I would not want to talk to long term, let alone be married to.
Men (who show promise or who actually have some bucks) are drawn into relationships with women when the women are young based on sex. That's it. That's how nature intended it. When the woman gets older and starts losing her figure and starts getting wrinkled, the man is hooked by law and social convention. Now he HAS TO pay for her, and he is not getting in return what he expected. His sex drive for THAT woman was reduced about 4-5 years into the relationship. His head cleared. But he was now married to a bitchy pig, and he now has "obligations" and "responsibilities".
Rinse, wash, repeat.
I love having kids and accept the shit I went through being married because I have some great kids. But, as far as this "civilization" goes, it's already gone over the top of the hill and heading down the other side.
I would never encourage my sons to fight for this country unless the mainland was attacked. My advice to them would be to not marry, have kids outside of marriage if you wish. You may pay child support, you can fight for custody, visitation, etc. Hell, your kids my choose to live with you as my kids have. But, you won't lose your house and half of everything else going through a divorce.
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