Tuesday, November 29, 2011

The Solution: Stop Nagging and Treat Husbands with More Respect

A reader (thanks!) sent me a link to a CNN article by Martha Brockenbrough, author of Things That Make Us (Sic): The Society for the Promotion of Good Grammar Takes on Madison Avenue, Hollywood, the White House, and the World. Frankly, this bitchy title should tell you that this snarky writer would have no more tolerance for husbands than she does for those who don't use perfect grammar.

Anyway, the article entitled "Why we get mad at our husbands" is simply a rant against husbands and dads who don't listen, drop whiskers in the sink, can't deal with the kids and make some women (including her friend)) feel that they are "married to nothing more than a hairy man-child."

The author is upset that her husband doesn't listen to her. After reading her nasty piece, I can see why. The gist of it is that men don't do enough and that women are angry that men aren't more like.... of course, women:
The ones we also really need to talk to, however, are our husbands. The fact that so many moms are mad, and that so many of the complaints are similar, is significant. And maybe that can give all of us moms -- who love our husbands but wish they'd just be...more like us -- the push to make some changes, to delegate more and demand more for ourselves. Anger can be debilitating -- but it can also be motivating.

Maybe what Brockenbrough should realize is that women feel anger more deeply than men and tend to do more complaining. Maybe the changes need to start with her and her angry fellow women. When you spend your time nagging someone constantly about their faults, whether the "fault" is their less than stellar grammar or what you perceive to be inadequate parenting etc., than it's no wonder they tune you out. As Gandhi said, "be the change you want to see in the world." Stop nagging and ranting and treat your guy with respect, maybe then, he will be more receptive to your requests.

For men out there, if a woman seems angry, does that make you more likely or less likely to comply with her demands (requests)?



Blogger TMink said...

"And maybe that can give all of us moms -- who love our husbands but wish they'd just be...more like us"

There is the magic line, women who wish their husbands were women.

God help her husband, he will likely need it.


9:15 AM, November 29, 2011  
Blogger Gordon Freece said...

You can't really blame the poor crazy bint. Her husband's not a doormat, at least, but he's still not in charge. In her mind, a male is either an active head of the household, or a "child". No other options exist. When she feels like nobody's in charge, she has a horrible, wordless feeling that the family's unsafe and the world is out of balance. She'd much prefer that he take charge, but he won't, so it falls to her.

"Stop nagging" is not the solution to her problem. Her problem is that he is not in charge.

The only thing she can control is her own behavior, so that's what she does. Like a widow, she steps into the power vacuum and does her best -- but instead of being a beloved memory, he's still there in the house, taking up space, refusing to do the job that her lizard brain feels like he signed up for (but remember, she has no conscious awareness of that, just an intense feeling that the world is out of balance and he's supposed to fix it... somehow). She will naturally resent having to do his job (to which she is unsuited) as well as her own. If she gets her way and takes charge, she'll stop resenting him and start loathing him. She's halfway there already. And her idea of "leadership" will consist mainly of hectoring and belittling him.

She knows something is very wrong, but not what. She does know it's completely out of her control. She knows that fishwifing her husband won't make her marriage happy, but she feels like it's her least worst option.

The only one who can fix it is him, but nobody ever told him how. Everything he's ever been told was the opposite of the truth. He'll either check out more and more, or try to placate her by ceding authority. Either will enrage her.

Somebody needs to tell this guy to read Roissy and Athol Kay and Hawaiian Libertarian.

9:40 AM, November 29, 2011  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

"Somebody needs to tell this guy to read Roissy and Athol Kay and Hawaiian Libertarian."


And even here - the man is somehow at fault.

You can't "take charge" with bossy bitches. She is going to win because she has a full army on remote control (punching the digits 9-1-1 into her mobile telephone). I guess you can act like a pretend "alpha" (whatever that really is) until she knocks you down a peg.

But the major point is: Who would want to?

I see unbelievable numbers of men with sit-on-their-lazy-ass housewives who constantly nag and complain. What is the value in that? Why would you WANT TO "take charge" or engage in any other interaction with these pigs?

Otherwise, I agree that her lizard brain is (subconsciously) telling her that the man should take charge. The problem for the man is that the only acceptable solution is to not be around her or, ideally, not to get into the situation in the first place. Don't engage an enemy (and that is what she is positioning herself as) if you know you aren't going to win.

9:52 AM, November 29, 2011  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Here's one of the reasons why women nag:

A majority of men (and some women) think that if you want something, you have to go out and get it. If you want money, you have to earn it. If you want the leaves out of your troughs, you have to clean them out. Or trade your work, in the form of money, for the work of others.

A majority of women (and some men) see the world in terms of getting others to do their bidding. If you want money, you have to lure a man into a situation in which he gives you money and commits to support you (i.e. give you a forced steady stream of money). If you want the leaves out of your troughs, you have to nag a man until he takes care of it. If you want something done, you have to nag a man until he does it.

10:41 AM, November 29, 2011  
Blogger Gordon Freece said...

Mark: It takes two to make a working relationship. Two people. Both of them. TWO. Count'em.

And you can perfectly well take charge with bossy bitches; I did it. They resist like hell at first, because they need you to prove, for real, that you really are stronger than they are. If you've got two functioning balls, you are stronger. Don't back down from the screaming. Don't let her budge you. Don't let her get away with any entitlement. Don't argue logically; don't argue at all. She doesn't care about logic, facts, fairness, or truth. She cares about power. To her, logic and facts are tactics that men fall for. She never falls for it, so don't feel constrained by it. If you insist on your primacy regardless of logic and facts, she will have more respect for you, not less. To her, human power relationships are the only reality that matters. Arguing facts and logic makes you equals. She doesn't want you to be an equal. Her friends are equals.

She cares about you proving that you can handle a serious challenge and win. She wants a man who would rather fight than give in, and who values his self-respect more than the relationship. She cares about you proving that you care more about yourself than about her. Oh, yes she does.

It's not easy, it's not fun (neither is a job, sometimes -- are you a man or an OWSer?). But if you do it right, one day she will start to believe that you're stronger, and she needs you more than you need her. She will start trying to please you. She will be relaxed and happy again in your company. When she does, reward her for it most of the time. Not 100%; she'll value you more if your approval isn't too easy to earn.

You don't know what you are talking about. You've never done it. I have. I didn't really believe it would work until it did; I pressed on because things got to where I was willing to sacrifice domestic harmony, and the relationship itself, to preserve my self-respect. I no longer gave a shit. When that happened, she had no power at all. I never backed down again. That was the turning point. Things began to change.

She only nags if she thinks she has the upper hand. If she feels like you're perfectly capable of telling her to go f**k herself just because you feel like it, she'll ask nicely.

Why do you believe you can't stand up to women? Why do you believe you have to give in? Ask yourself that. Because she'll scream? When a woman screams, calmly tell her to shut the f**k up, and leave the room. Why do you believe you have to respect facts and logic when she doesn't care about either one? Why do you believe you have to respect her rights and feelings when she has perfect disregard for yours? You may feel like she'll up and leave you the minute you start standing up for yourself, but the only women who do that are genuine whores, the kind who always have other men on the side. They're not so common.

You are the center. It's all about you. Act accordingly. She'll come around, or (possibly) leave. You must learn not to care.

If you act that way consistently from day one with her, you'll never have this problem.

Women have no control over themselves. Control is our job.

10:46 AM, November 29, 2011  
Blogger Gordon Freece said...

P.S. Once you establish who's boss, affection is important. It just has to be the right kind of affection, and she has to feel like she must earn it. Read Athol Kay.

10:49 AM, November 29, 2011  
Blogger Zorro said...

This comment has been removed by the author.

10:55 AM, November 29, 2011  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Gordon Freece,

You have to look at it from my point of view. If a woman is that out of control with her bossiness and nagging in the first place - whether you can control her later on or not - she doesn't have much value for me.

What would you think about a guy who said that you can fix up a 25-year-old car so that it almost looks new. You just put around $100,000 into it, and your car is almost as good as a new one.

It isn't worth it to me. I don't want to put $100,000 into a car to make it look like a car that I could buy new for $50,000. Get it? Immature women have little value to me - whether you can control them or not.

10:58 AM, November 29, 2011  
Blogger RB said...

hillarious. read the original article's comments.

I'm not a huge sports fan, but girls should play more team sports, and "what's her face" is clearly missing this developmental perspective: sacrifice is different than teamwork.

SACRIFICE. Something surrendered humbly, hopefully, without a direct quid pro quo.

TEAMWORK. when the receiver drops the ball his lineman does not nag him for an hour (if the coach is any good), because the lineman will eventually goof and need some grace himself.

COMMUNICATION. Information is different from therapy.

OPINIONS. everyone has them, often one is no better than the next. Communicating about them can help.

11:10 AM, November 29, 2011  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Gordon Freece,

I concede one of your points: I've experienced it myself that immature women sometimes shape up if you put your foot down. My preferred method was to tell them to can it with the nagging or I was going to leave. They then belittle me (because prior boyfriends probably never followed through) ... and I leave. I've had the experience in a couple of cases that they do want to come back after months or a year with a new attitude. But nagging still occasionally reared its head, and it was a constant effort to remind her that I meant business.

Lots of men think, "that's just how women are", but a new world opens up if you acknowledge the existence of women who actually have emotional maturity.

11:19 AM, November 29, 2011  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

... and ... unfortunately ... emotional maturity can most likely be found in women from places like the former East Block etc. But it is not widespread among North American women. At all.

12:24 PM, November 29, 2011  
Blogger Cham said...

I haven't read the comments above me but everyone listen up. I saw that CNN article this morning and clicked on it. I skimmed over the article and recognized it for what it was, a rant by some crazy nutjob. But what really got my goat was the title, "Why WE get mad at our husbands"

Who the hell is "we"? I don't get mad at my husband because I don't have a husband. In fact, I never got mad at a boyfriend in all my years of dating. Men are who they are, whatever they are, just like women. If a man was a slob when you started dating him and had a habit of throwing his underwear on the floor for somebody else to clean up then don't be so surprised when he continued his bad habits well into your marriage. You should have been less desperate to marry and procreate, and taken a harder look at what you were marrying.

I am not part of that woman's "we".

2:09 PM, November 29, 2011  
Blogger missred said...

"be the change you want to see in the world." Stop nagging and ranting and treat your guy with respect, maybe then, he will be more receptive to your requests."

here! here! dr H. that could be said for all relationships

2:28 PM, November 29, 2011  
Blogger LordSomber said...

There's nothing new about nagging wives.
What is new is the shameless public airing of the nagging.
Women (and men) who publicly disrespect their spouses get no respect from me.

3:04 PM, November 29, 2011  
Blogger Larry J said...

I' ve been married for 28 years and told my wife a few simple truths up front to manage expectations:

1. I'm not a mind reader. If I could read minds, I wouldn't be working here. I'd be cleaning up at the poker tables in Vegas instead. If something is bothering you, tell me. Don't expect me to know what you think is wrong.

2. If you see something that needs fixing, tell me about it. I may not have noticed the problem.

3. Just because I do something differently than you would do it, it doesn't mean I'm wrong and you're right. My way might actually be better.

3:21 PM, November 29, 2011  
Blogger DADvocate said...

For women like Brockenbrough (not Cham), it's all about them. The world is supposed to conform to their desires.

Of course, this is the path to great disappoinment for most of the world doesn't care what your desires are. They're busy trying to fulfill their own desires and meet their own needs.

Ghandi was right. The surest way to change the world is change yourself.

4:11 PM, November 29, 2011  
Blogger Ern said...

emotional maturity . . . is not widespread among North American women.

Truer words have never been spoken. I haven't dated a woman born in the United States for more than twenty years, and I'm not going to.

if a woman seems angry, does that make you more likely or less likely to comply with her demands (requests)?

I quite explictly don't comply with demands from those of either sex who raise their voices or are snide. Expressing anger in a more controlled manner is acceptable.

All of this is made easier by the facts that I am single (and happy to be so), self-employed, and, as a result of decades of hard work, financially independent.

5:14 PM, November 29, 2011  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

"I quite explictly don't comply with demands from those of either sex who raise their voices or are snide."



If a woman were to make an ultimatum in a relationship (none have with me), I would instantly choose the version in which I lose her.

I chased after women in my 20s, but now I just think that it's incredibly stupid. Their gold-plated vagina just isn't worth it anymore, and most have nothing further to offer.

Maybe I need testosterone shots to get back to being manipulated by women.

7:29 PM, November 29, 2011  
Blogger Joe said...

The author kept throwing out statistics--xx% of women feel this or that, xx% of women do this. Every one of those could be turned the other way.

It gets worse.

As my marriage ended, I was honestly shocked at how many men expressed empathy due to similar experiences. Marriages I thought were amazing and solid, weren't. This wasn't merely complaining, but legitimate issues.

Similar thing happened when I got divorced. The envy was astounding to me (especially since I was crushed, despite my ex-wife being legitimately crazy.)

Then there's my family; I found out that my parents and siblings thought my ex was nuts and were surprised our marriage lasted as long as it did. However, my mother and female siblings thought my ex was an extreme outlier; my male siblings believe she is just off normal.

9:37 PM, November 29, 2011  
Blogger Licorne Negro said...

"For men out there, if a woman seems angry, does that make you more likely or less likely to comply with her demands (requests)?"

Well... I tend to comply more to demands if the girl (in the case, girlfriend) seems calm and caring, maybe even a little flatterer. (although I will not comply to all her demands)
In the case of an angry girl (I had a ex like that...), I tend to not comply. If the girl bitch TOO MUCH to me, sometimes I comply, but that only harden me against future demands from her, angry ones or calm ones.

10:24 AM, November 30, 2011  
Blogger br549 said...

I have found, too, that many of my male friends are envious that I am no longer married. My children are now grown, so I am free to do whatever I wish, within reason. It's quite nice, actually.

12:34 PM, November 30, 2011  
Blogger JohnMcG said...

Sorry, I don't think the "step up and take charge" advice.

Lots of us actually wanted to have equal partnerships in our marriages. We weren't looking to dominate our wives and we weren't looking to be dominated. And I don't buy the line that somebody needs to be in charge. We are people, not pack animals.

I think it is possible to build a mutually beneficial partnership. Perhaps not with women like the author of this article, but not all males are alphas, and they deserve to be in good relationships, too.

12:45 PM, November 30, 2011  
Blogger Dr.Alistair said...

johnmcg, i have two rather large dogs. they are sweet and gentle in the house and allow the cat to rule them (for some reason...probably because i want the cat alive.) but they are carnivorous predators without care or concern for the lives of cats, other dogs or squirrels unless i have dominion over them while out on the leash.
this dominion is challenged occasionally and the reprisal is quick and just. one snap of the chain and away we go.

women are much the same.

to say you want an equal relationship is a liberal fantasy borne of political correctness and feminist propaganda, what you will get with that is broke and alone...after her lawyer is finished chewing on your assets for a while.

women say they want blah blah blah, but they really want to have us run the show.

if you get around one who persists in taking the male position, politely excuse yourself before you say or do anything to make yourself a target.

3:42 PM, November 30, 2011  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

... says some guy with divorces behind him.

Dr.Alistair, I am absolutely sure from your writing that you have been divorced at least one.

Whether you have two large dogs or not.

People don't act the same as (other) animals.

And "alpha males" - if you want to be accurate - are the heavily tattooed guys and very heavily muscled guys in prison for life who would bite into you and rip your flesh out in a fight.

Yeah, I want to be that guy.

4:22 PM, November 30, 2011  
Blogger JohnMcG said...

Mark took the words out of my mouth. People are not (non-human) animals.

Frankly, I don't want to be the type of person who sees all his relationships in pack animal terms. If I were to "man up" and show my wife who's boss, etc., I would hate myself.

Establishing who's boss is good advice for managing dogs. If you want a similar dynamic for your marriage, I guess it can work, provided you find a woman willing to play the role of dog. For the rest of us, I'm skeptical.

5:40 PM, November 30, 2011  
Blogger br549 said...

I do not believe Mark is a male. Now, I don't believe JohnMcG is either. Or at least, not one who has not been metorsexualized.

6:46 PM, November 30, 2011  
Blogger br549 said...

"If I were to man up and show my wife who's boss, I would hate myself."

Men don't talk like that.

6:47 PM, November 30, 2011  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

The way to a woman's heart is through her rib cage.

Right, br549?

I take my violence like I take my beer - domestic.

9:23 PM, November 30, 2011  
Blogger Unknown said...

"For men out there, if a woman seems angry, does that make you more likely or less likely to comply with her demands (requests)?"

Let's call "angry" for what it is - whiny, naggy, and bitchy. In which case I am more inclined to push those very buttons.

11:15 PM, November 30, 2011  
Blogger JohnMcG said...

Yes, br95, calling other men unmanly is the height of genuine masculinity.

I guess it's convenient for you. All me accept your worldview. If someone disagrees, you need not engage their arguments, just say they're not men. Then your worldview need not change.

I guess I'm looking for more fulfilling relationships than pack animals have. If you're satisfied with living the life of a pack animal, feel free.

10:18 AM, December 01, 2011  
Blogger Zorro said...

I call total Strawman!

11:09 PM, December 01, 2011  
Blogger bmmg39 said...

JohnMcG is right, not br549. This will be hard for some people to believe, but there is another choice besides having a man cower in fear to his wife or having him express dominion over her. What the hell kind of choice is that?

Equality isn't "feminist propaganda" or some "liberal fantasy."

3:19 PM, December 02, 2011  
Blogger Zorro said...

I don't even want to talk to a woman unless I have the chance to make her angry. Even better, making a girl cry. God, but that's fun!

@bmmg39: Equality in the human being exists at the morgue and cemetery. If you are (1) human, and (2) alive, you are equal to not a single person on the planet.

Equality is a f-ing myth. We should have never attached our tiny little brains to it. Balance, on the other hand, is attainable, pleasant and perfectly fair. Equality is shit.

8:35 PM, December 02, 2011  
Blogger Alex said...

How many wives are upset that hubby got a beer belly, is a couch potato and burps all the time? Why wouldn't she nag such a loutish idiot?

2:53 PM, December 05, 2011  
Blogger Alex said...

Cham - but remember people like you didn't procreate and thus you lost the game of life.

2:54 PM, December 05, 2011  
Blogger RB said...

all right heroes.
if given the chance, would you do whatever it took to protect your beloved? would you stand between her and her doom if it came to that? if so great; if not, less so. that said, can you take out the trash and pick your stuff up? we are spending a lot of time "whining" here... ta ta

3:06 PM, December 05, 2011  

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