Thursday, July 14, 2011

"Burnt-out" or just working like a man?

Over at the Daily Mail, there is an article on "the burnt-out generation." The word "generation" would imply that it would include men, but no, the article is about how women work too hard at home and work. The piece discusses a book by Dr. Joan Borysenko who wrote Fried: Why You Burn Out and How to Revive and she had this to say:

Dr Borysenko believes women suffer so severely because they are more likely than men to be people-pleasers who ignore their own needs.
Trapped in a cycle of trying to do their best, but not realising the toll it’s taking on them, they end up in a cycle of despair.
‘Burn-out is a disorder of hope. It sucks the life out of competent, hard-working people. You lose motivation and vitality,’ says Dr Borysenko, a Harvard-trained scientist and psychologist.
‘It happens when you feel you can’t stand it for one more minute. You have such thoughts as: “I hate my life.” ....

Dr Borysenko says women close to burn-out often put themselves last on their own list.
‘Women in burn-out exhaust themselves by doing, doing, doing,’ she says. They also become cynical and negative about life. Feeling relentlessly put-upon creates a martyr complex and a raging sense of resentment and indignation that often makes burn-out victims feel justified in lashing out...

She is worried about the toll on mothers trying to do it all, especially now that a job is no longer a matter of choice for many, but is instead essential to keeping the family finances afloat.

Funny, feminists have always told women they "could have it all." Now that they do, they are all a bunch of martyrs, no different than the way the 1950s housewives were described by feminists. Have you noticed that women are always portrayed as a bunch of martyrs who "never put themselves first," no matter the circumstances? The solution to their woes always seems to be to get more "me time."

I often watch men drag themselves to work or do things that call for sacrifice without complaining or sometimes, they have a heart attack or other health problem that no one really cares about and certainly, they get little sympathy.

Men are also adapting to new roles and doing much more in the home as well as working. People just call that "life" if you're a man. If you are a woman who works too hard, you are "burnt-out" and need help. Maybe "burnt-out" is just another phrase that means "work like a man." Feminists and their suck-ups are always saying that women are "superior" to men, but when I read articles like this one, I'm not so sure.

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Blogger LordSomber said...

I was a workaholic in a dysfunctional workplace at one time quickly reaching burn-out. So were my colleagues. I couldn't explain why we all worked this way until I saw the book "The Addictive Organization" by Anne Wilson Schaef.

It didn't really provide a lot of solutions but it did answer a lot of questions.

1:50 PM, July 14, 2011  
Blogger Joe said...

This is only news because women are beginning to suffer burn out just like men have for millenia.

Everything Dr. Borysenko describes about women, men have been going through for ages and in a much worse way--men MUST work; most of what these women are bitching about is stuff they did voluntarily (and which their husbands often questioned, only to be denigrated, verbally abused and often threatened with cessation of emotional and sexual intimacy.)

2:00 PM, July 14, 2011  
Blogger Cham said...

Back up bunkies, right here and right now!!!!!!

I can only conclude from what Helen wrote that all women are mothers trying to do it all and all men are fathers also trying to do it all.

Let's go to statistics. 49% of adult Americans are married. 31% are always-single. 19% are divorced, separated or widowed. How many of these people have kids? Not everyone.

So is everyone a giver? Is everyone a martyr? Is everyone working a 60 hour a week job because they've over-extended themselves financially?

This description of the burned-out person applies to only a percentage of the population. And if one is burnt out they need to be thinking about the choices they've made and why they are in the mess they are in, and not view themselves as big heroes that give way too much.

2:13 PM, July 14, 2011  
Blogger Helen said...


Your last words are pearls of wisdom. If people would look at the choices they make and think about how to reduce their stress, burn-out would not be as big a deal. All of the media coverage telling people how entitled they should feel is not helping people learn to deal with work, kids and stress. That used to just be called "life."

2:54 PM, July 14, 2011  
Blogger Southern Man said...

The most important things I learned after a lifetime of putting my family first was "set boundaries and enforce them" and "if you're not taking care of yourself, you can't take care of anyone else." Seems selfish, but by not letting others trample my boundaries and by taking care of my own needs first, it turns out that I can take much better care of my loved ones, and our lives are much the better for it.

3:01 PM, July 14, 2011  
Blogger Unknown said...

Maybe "burnt-out" is just another phrase that means "work like a man."

I shall use that in the future. Thank you.

3:03 PM, July 14, 2011  
Blogger Ern said...

Dr Borysenko believes women suffer so severely because they are more likely than men to be people-pleasers who ignore their own needs.

Does Dr Borsysenko have some evidence that women "are more likely than men to be people-pleasers who ignore their own needs"? That sure doesn't match my experience with women.

7:06 PM, July 14, 2011  
Blogger Edgehopper said...

To quote Drew Carey--"You hate your job? There's a support group for that. It's called 'everybody', and they meet at the bar."

There are a whole lot of women who were "liberated" by feminism only to realize that the working world isn't the fun halls of power where you get to move mountains and change lives, it's a daily grind of keeping inventory, entering data, filling out paperwork, reviewing documents, and a ton of other crap that's a lot less fulfilling than taking care of one's children. No surprise that they would burn out.

7:08 PM, July 14, 2011  
Blogger Cham said...

Let's break this apart:

"I am a people pleaser"

That means, "I'm a good person. I want people to be happy. I am interested in other people."

then on to:

"I ignore my own needs".

That means, "I am so selfless and good that I put my own needs last, I look out for everyone else including the guy who lives under the bridge. Again, I'm proving to you I am a good person."

There is are several women's magazines out there which run these themes constantly. Oprah created an entire media complex out of this. Home Shopping Network and QVC have made billions in sales trumpeting this crap.

It's crap, every childless single woman knows it's crap. But it sure as heck plays well in Peoria.

7:28 PM, July 14, 2011  
Blogger Unknown said...

Not to throw another angle into the argument, but single and childless middle aged workers, regardless of gender, suffer a different set of discrimination: they have no excuse to leave work because they have no children.

For years I've witness workers leave early or excuse themselves from work and tasks because little Charly or Susie need to go to X activity or Y doctor or Z whatever. The typical supervisor soon learns that the "parent" employee is not as reliable as the "single" employee for last minute duties. Guess what? All those tasks go to the single and childless employee.

Raises, when possible, seem to the equal despite the disparity of work.

7:36 PM, July 14, 2011  
Blogger Observito said...

Pick a nice sunny day and go for a walk in any half decent residential neighborhood. Who else is walking about enjoying the day?

Women, mostly.

I am really, really tired of women whining. I see women as having a much better deal in life than men. As Heinlein observed, that's proper and necessary given our natures - why should a woman settle for mere equality? I'm still tired of the whining, even though I have to suck it up and pretend to agree or never get laid.

I'm married and old and my wife works very hard and never whines and yes I'm generalizing.

7:39 PM, July 14, 2011  
Blogger Cham said...

Unknown, if you want to see married parents have a melt-down just wait until a single childless woman is given extra vacation days because she has worked overtime, done extra tasks and gone above and beyond duty to placate an angry customer and save an account.

The whining, belly-aching begins immediately. They can't do extra work because they have a little Charly or Susie so they shouldn't be punished with so few vacation days. (I don't let them know that the company is picking up the cost of my rental car too, that would really make them chafe)

Ugh, it just makes me want to vomit.

7:48 PM, July 14, 2011  
Blogger Joy McCann said...

Men get burned out, too.

And there are still plenty of women who work 60-hour weeks, and still go home to men who (having put in their own 35 hours) expect them to do the cooking and cleaning.

7:59 PM, July 14, 2011  
Blogger GawainsGhost said...

My mother is 72, and she works constantly but never complains about it. I'm 50, and I can't keep up with her.

She wakes up every morning around 4:00 AM, makes a pot of coffee and reads for a while, then goes to work. I fall out of bed sometime around 6:00 AM, crawl into the kitchen and make a pot of coffee. The she comes over with a legal pad that has a long list of tasks for me to perform.

She owns her own company. My father died of cancer ten years ago, and I had to resign from teaching to help her. I've never worked so much in my life.

These women are ridiculous. Oh, you want an education and a job, a career! Why, so you can complain about it?

Sort of like she marries a man, then decides she doesn't like him very much.

The modern woman is worthless. She can have her education, her job, her career. She can also buy her own house, where she can sit at home alone and bitch about men. And when she wants someone to complain about it to, let her go look in the mirror.

8:02 PM, July 14, 2011  
Blogger Glittermama said...

"The modern woman is worthless."

Clearly. As is the modern man. What's that quote? "Treat everyone as they deserve, and who will escape whipping?" (Paraphrased, of course.)

I'm a scientist. In my office, I hear just as much complaining about burn-out from men as from women. What do you call it when a man complains about his job? If women, when tired, are just inferior whiners who can't hack it in a man's world, what is a man who can't hack it in his own world?

Maybe, just maybe, people sometimes get tired. And maybe it doesn't have to do with a vag or a peen, but with the fact that we're all people.

8:10 PM, July 14, 2011  
Blogger GawainsGhost said...

Okay, maybe the modern woman is not worthless. She might have a career, earn a high salary, own a company.

What she's not worth is 50% and presumptive paterternity.

Let her complain about that.

8:26 PM, July 14, 2011  
Blogger Bruce Wayne said...

No one has mentioned that women have been brainwashed (by advertisers) into believing that everything has to be cleaner than is really necessary. Relax!

8:43 PM, July 14, 2011  
Blogger Unknown said...

Cham...I saw the same unbalanced treatment for female and male childless workers in my work environment. The most egregious examples were vacations cancelled at the last minute because client obligations required attention.

Of course, it was assumed the childless employee could always reschedule without pain. [To my former employer's credit, they would cover the cost of any rescheduling costs, including the cost of non-refundable flights, motels and tours.]

8:50 PM, July 14, 2011  
Blogger highlander said...

Well I'll be damned!

Back in the 70's when feminists were demanding the right to have jobs -- like men -- in the corporate world, my male colleagues and I looked at each other, then looked around at our cubicles and wondered, "Who in their right minds would want this?"

Few of those brilliant feminists had any real idea of what they were asking for -- or of its consequences. We were certain that if they did, they wouldn't be asking for it.

It looks to me like some of them at least are finally learning the wisdom of, "Be careful what you wish for -- you may get it!"

9:00 PM, July 14, 2011  
Blogger kmg said...

'Superior to men'?

On the contrary, feminism has made basic female inferiority far more visible than it ever could have been without feminists bringing attention to it.

A lot of elements of female ability are getting scrutinized because feminist claims of female equality are not being matched with actual results.

9:00 PM, July 14, 2011  
Blogger Glittermama said...

"basic female inferiority"


9:21 PM, July 14, 2011  
Blogger Doug Fletcher said...

You can't have everything -- where would you put it?

don't know who said that but i remembered it

9:28 PM, July 14, 2011  
Blogger Christine said...

"... Men have over women the psychological advantage of believing they do what they do out of necessity. The advertising copywriter..., the used car salesman, even the dope pusher--- all can justify they do what they do because it puts clothes on the backs and food into the mouths of their families. Their work may be degrading, disgusting, vile, but at least it is, as they say a living. Yet the majority of wives who seek fulfillment through work are not looking for living but for a better life. Unable to live under the comforting illusion that they work for necessity, such women grow sour on work that is inherently useless and uninteresting, their dream of the good life through the good job shrivels into the nightmare of dull and demanding routine, and they are forced to search elsewhere for new possibilities."
-- Joseph Epstein, Divorced in America

9:33 PM, July 14, 2011  
Blogger Assistant Village Idiot said...

Cham's point is always a good corrective to keep in mind. There is enormous variance among men and among women, and generalisations must be held very lightly. For all we say about men in the old days having to work and sucking it up without complaint, a moment's thought will remind us that of course there were leeches, lowlifes, and shiners a hundred years ago. We suspect the percentage was less (even much less) than now, but these things are hard to measure. My two grandfathers worked like mules - two of four great-grandfathers did, but the other two were irresponsible bums.

Still, we are entitled to make observations and try to understand changes and what they mean, so long as we recognise that on any single point we may be dead wrong, even if our general view is correct.

Where I work, the are stoics of both sexes and whiners of both sexes, but the stereotype tends to be true: there are more men who plod on uncomplaining, more women who complain constantly. An interesting side note: Many of the men who do complain seem to take pains to do so in a humorous way, usually with cynicism or exaggeration. It takes the sting out a bit, can build cameraderie, and perhaps should not be categorised as real complaining, but a pose for effect. (Compare military humor, for example.)

9:48 PM, July 14, 2011  
Blogger David O'Gwynn said...

When America was young, men and women shared the work necessary to survive and prosper. Nowadays, they don't share much of anything.

This life is hard. We despair only when we hope for things that are not ours to have. All of us, men and women, are constrained to make a life for ourselves by the sweat of our faces. No one can "have it all".

Should women "work like men"? Not really a relevant or even meaningful question. Women will have to work whether they're in the home or in an office. The world in which we live is always ready to swallow us whole, unfeeling, unflinching, unconcerned, unless we work to make our corner of it better every day. In that sense, entropy is more a friend of true feminism (i.e. the understanding of the wholesale spiritual equality of men and women) than all the lurid sanctimony of modern culture.

Make your choice, sisters. If you choose the home, there will be consequences. If you choose the office, there will be consequences. If you choose not to choose, there will be consequences. Just don't hope for contradictions. You will only find a brick wall of misery.

10:11 PM, July 14, 2011  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

When momma's not happy NOBODY's happy.

When daddy's not happy, nobody cares.

10:38 PM, July 14, 2011  
Blogger kmg said...


Yes, really.

Just about any field that is a pure meritocracy with low barriers to entry, will be dominated by men.

1) Stand-up comedians : 95% are men. Laughter happens or it does not. Very few women have comedic talent in a stand-up setting.

2) High-traffic bloggers : About 90% men.

3) Investment managers : 100% of the top 100 Hedge Fund managers are men, despite the vast programs designed to help women in the field.

Investment returns are transparent to the age, sex, or race of the person generating it.

So yes, men do most careers better than women. This is very obvious to anyone honest enough to see it.

Feminism has made visible the basic female inferiorities that in the past were not noticed. Good work, feminists!

1:26 AM, July 15, 2011  
Blogger Zorro said...

If (I will qualify this with an "if") there is any merit whatsoever to the notion that men are more likely to succeed in any given job than women, it boils down to a single word: drive.

If a woman takes a job or launches into a career, she can do so for any reason she likes. But her mating prospects are never part of the equation. A woman's value as a wife or girlfriend do not compute into her job...unless she's literally a lingerie model.

Not so with men.

To be attractive to the female of the species, the male must achieve, win, succeed, conquer or otherwise distinguish himself in society. He must decorate himself with skills, abilities, talents and anything that can transfer to his attainment of status in his social sphere. If he fails to do this, he becomes sexually invisible to the female. He will not marry, mate or likely reproduce.

A woman, if she's reasonably attractive and has a pleasant disposition, can get a husband and still have a life. A man can (almost) never entertain the notion that a successful female corporate high-flyer is going to take a shine to him and let him do the SAHD thing. Her friends will laugh at her for marrying down, and she damn well knows it.

Because of this, every gov't intrusion into the workplace that upsets the meritocracy cart inescapably resounds to work against (heterosexual) women, as it corrodes the pool of plausible male mates.

In the short-term, feminism sure looks like it is pro-woman; over the long haul, it is the most anti-female social movement this society has ever embraced.

David M. Buss, Ph.D., Steve Moxon, and Roissy will all support the above.

3:27 AM, July 15, 2011  
Blogger br549 said...

America has become dysfunctional. That's a revelation, eh?

5:56 AM, July 15, 2011  
Blogger Glittermama said...

Kmg, thank you for that fascinating reply. Now that I know you are using stand-up comedy, blogging and investment banking to be the three pinnacles of career success, your assertion about female inferiority suddenly seems quite narrow and individually tailored.

It's still a bizarre assertion to me, and the narrowness of the definition makes it moreso, but at least I see what criteria you're using.

7:28 AM, July 15, 2011  
Blogger Dr.Alistair said...

to bolster kmg`s point there is the building trades, mining, oil drilling, industrial fishing, logging, manufacturing, tool and die, welding, home renovations (drywall is very heavy)...not to mention professional sport.

7:58 AM, July 15, 2011  
Blogger SGT Ted said...

Cham, if I recall correctly, men didn't get extra time off if they had a family, and/or if they did, it was for something extraordinary, like if the wife or child needed a surgury. But it wasn't routine.

It was when women with kids entered the workforce that suddenly their personal schedules had to be accomodated by their employer.

And of course they're going to whine about you getting something they aren't getting; their whining worked to get them time off to pick up their kids, when men didn't get that cosideration, so why not whine for extra goodies for doing less work?

8:21 AM, July 15, 2011  
Blogger LPF said...

You don't 'burn out' by working too hard. You 'burn out' by working too hard for too little results.

8:24 AM, July 15, 2011  
Blogger Locomotive Breath said...

Maybe if women burn out like men, life expectancies will equalize. Good.

Meanwhile, women often burn out because they're victims of their self expectation of being the center of their own universe.

8:25 AM, July 15, 2011  
Blogger SGT Ted said...

Dr A,

Not to mention the repairmen and service technicians for all of the mechanical innovations that have made homemaking so easy that women have enough free time at home to be bored enough to want a job outside the home.

8:28 AM, July 15, 2011  
Blogger Cham said...

Sgt Ted, I think it's a draw between the mothers and the fathers on who whines the most. They both do it. The mothers whine because it comes naturally. The fathers whine because it drives them bonkers when a woman gets a little more than a man, never mind that the woman worked a little harder, put in a little more time and brought more revenue to the company. They simply are unable to connect the dots.

8:31 AM, July 15, 2011  
Blogger Locomotive Breath said...

To follow kmg's remark, we engineers get beaten up because there so few women engineers. Engineering is the process of constant failure. You're trying to make something work and it fails. And again. Fail, fail, fail. Then if you have a good day and the stars align, it'll work. Sometimes. There's no arguing that even though it didn't work we should all feel good about ourselves because we tried real hard. It didn't work. No payday for anyone. Women can't stand the psychic stress.

In my workplace there's one female engineer. She's on extended leave because she lost a parent. Everyone understands. I lost both my parents. One a year ago and one in 1996. Guess what? No leave for me. I had to keep earning an income to support my family.

8:37 AM, July 15, 2011  
Blogger David Foster said...

LPF..."You don't 'burn out' by working too hard. You 'burn out' by working too hard for too little results"

I've seen studies suggesting that stress is a matter of two job dimensions: *demand* and *control*. If a job places high demands on an individual, but also gives him considerable control in meeting those demands, it may be less stressful than a demand in which the demands are slightly less but control is absent.

Customer-service call center jobs are often medium-demand very-low-control jobs. It is possible that a job in an especially badly run call center may be more stressful than the (very-high-demand, high-control) job of an air traffic controller.

10:30 AM, July 15, 2011  
Blogger Zorro said...

@Locomotive Breath: I know a man who is an engineering genius. Seriously. This guy can tear apart a house and rebuild it from reverse engineering.

I once asked him what was the essence of engineering, and he said, "the ability to do anything with the least amount of energy and resources."

I kind of like that.

Your thoughts?

11:13 AM, July 15, 2011  
Blogger TMink said...

When I was a single father I was refused time off from work to care for a sick child. Women in the same office, even those who were married, were granted it.

But more on topic, when I am stressed by work I remember why I am doing it. For the right reason, I can put up with a LOT of stress. 8)I remind myself that I am helping God's children, I remind myself that I am supporting my family, I remind myself of the Oppo 93 blu-ray player I want to buy in a couple of months.

Then I feel better and get back to work.


11:31 AM, July 15, 2011  
Blogger art.the.nerd said...

My I echo Frederico's comment with my own experience?

Early this year, after I finished cleaning my house for Passover I took a vacation day for this of course), I went to a coffee shop in an outdoor mall near home for a last bagel. I sat outside and took my time, watching the constant flow of people. Some were clearly retired men and women. Other men were dressed in work clothes (landscaping, cable company, etc). They got out of their trucks or vans, got a coffee, and then drove off.

The women, on the other hand, outnumbered the men 2:1 and seemed to have nothing else to do. They were there with small kids or large dogs, usually in groups, clearly with no work to go to.

Tell me again about how women are oppressed...

12:03 PM, July 15, 2011  
Blogger Unknown said...

Attila Girl --

"And there are still plenty of women who work 60-hour weeks, and still go home to men who (having put in their own 35 hours) expect them to do the cooking and cleaning."

Please compare and contrast with the number of men working that many hours and coming home to a wife who does *not* have a job and yet does none maintain the home.

12:47 PM, July 15, 2011  
Blogger Unknown said...

Oh, and just to add to kmg's list: art professionals, scientists, IT personnel, law enforcement,... there's probably more.

12:49 PM, July 15, 2011  
Blogger Joe said...

This comment has been removed by the author.

1:06 PM, July 15, 2011  
Blogger Joe said...

The fathers whine because it drives them bonkers when a woman gets a little more than a man

I'm almost fifty and I've never seen that. Ever. I have seen men complain when female coworkers are coddled, but I've also seen women complain about the same, usually louder.

Furthermore, other than a mysoginistic brother-in-law, I personally don't know any other man who would be upset if his wife earned more than him. Fathers complain because they work their asses off for long term plans and their wives bitch because they can't get some nice shiny thing and refuse to get a job or better job to obtain it.

1:09 PM, July 15, 2011  
Blogger Cham said...

Joe: Part of the problem is the wives. You forget these men have a woman at home telling them to earn more, get more time off, spend more time with them, all the while inflating their husband's ego and telling how important they are.

When daddy arrives home and tells the SAH wife that somebody got extra vacation days, a bonus and an attaboy and it wasn't them, they get an earful from the wife about how they should get whatever it is too.

The way many companies are handling compensation packages in this economy is they have a set salary, but then are able to hand out bonuses on an as-needed basis to reward employees who do extra. Just because one employee gets a bonus doesn't mean it is automatic for the rest of the group.

1:18 PM, July 15, 2011  
Blogger Doom said...

You know though, thinking about the article and reading over comments a bit, here is a notion...

Women, like "moderate" muslims, seem to have been swept along by the inexorable force of a vast minority of activist women. Or, so it seems to be said by the vast majority of women. "Oh, no, I'm not a feminist!", we hear from women folk near and far. And yet they use every right, to the letter of the law and beyond, they take ever opportunity afforded them by the unjust immoral unconstitutional laws, provisos, quotas, caveats (and any other stupid word I can throw at the notion, properly or not).

Then, when life gets tough, while holding on to everything "they have earned", they cry like babies and suggest they didn't want it. Eating your cake, having it too, and NOW whining about the whole affair? Really?

1:19 PM, July 15, 2011  
Blogger Phelps said...

Kmg, thank you for that fascinating reply. Now that I know you are using stand-up comedy, blogging and investment banking to be the three pinnacles of career success, your assertion about female inferiority suddenly seems quite narrow and individually tailored.

Let's test that. Can you name any fields with significant male participation, that are measurably meritocratic and are dominated at the top by women? Not just professions, but hobbies also. Let's case a wide net.

1:58 PM, July 15, 2011  
Blogger kmg said...


Take a randomly selected group of women.

Take a randomly selected group of 12-year-old boys.

Have the two groups compete in any contest of mental, strategic, or physical traits.

The two groups will be evenly matched, proving that women are only of equal ability to 12 year old boys.

This thing is, you know this. You just want to hide from people bringing this up. So blame feminism, not the men. Feminism is what made fundamental female inferiority more visible than it ever would have otherwise been.

3:42 PM, July 15, 2011  
Blogger Dr.Alistair said...

my 12 year old son is stronger and faster tham my 20 year old step-daughter and she plays competitive soccer...

5:07 PM, July 15, 2011  
Blogger br549 said...

I became an "instant" single dad with kids in second, fifth, and sixth grades. In order to be a full time sole parent and bread winner took four moves to three different states and cost five career quality jobs. The last one, and current one, is the lowest paying out of all of them, and I am over qualified for the position I occupy. But they are the only company who let me leave whenever one of my kids got sick in school, and / or I needed to take a day off for a family related problem - where I still had a job afterwards.

6:32 PM, July 15, 2011  
Blogger kmg said...

Cham speculated,

The fathers whine because it drives them bonkers when a woman gets a little more than a man, never mind that the woman worked a little harder, put in a little more time and brought more revenue to the company. They simply are unable to connect the dots.

Huge, huge projection.

It is men who work harder than women for less pay. Many women are simply employed to do nothing, and earn 77% of what a man earns for doing just 10% of the work.

If women were productive, how come they don't start their own companies, hiring other women, and thus out-competing male-heavy businesses.

If there is any gender than cannot 'connect the dots', it is female.

9:12 PM, July 15, 2011  
Blogger Zorro said...

"If women were productive, how come they don't start their own companies, hiring other women, and thus out-competing male-heavy businesses."

Given the women-are-better meme with which we are bombarded 24/7, this is a particularly good point. Because if women truly are better at everything, an all-female business should, by all rights, kick the living shit out of all competition infected by the dreaded Y chromosome.

Not. Seeing. It. Are. You?

9:56 PM, July 15, 2011  
Blogger Locomotive Breath said...


I can't disagree with that as far as it goes. But you have to be prepared for it to not work the first time so I'd add persistence in the face of failure.

10:24 PM, July 15, 2011  
Blogger Zorro said...

@LB: I am happily blessed with the patience of a Trappist monk. And I will cheerfully applaud their success if and when it occurs.

But my doctor says holding my breath is bad for my heart, so I won't.

10:46 PM, July 15, 2011  
Blogger kmg said...

Not. Seeing. It. Are. You?

Not at all, which leads me to what I was saying before.

Feminism, far from elevating women, has actually made their limitations and inferiority far more visible that in otherwise would have been.

Most of us would never have contemplated why hardly any standup comedians are women, or why women cannot handle investments, or why women cannot produce scientific innovations.

Feminists, thinking they could elevate women merely by declaring female superiority, but without the deeds to back it up, are like the termite that gets itself noticed by chewing up important documents and thus gets the whole house fumigated.

Had the termite been less brazen and more discreet, her whole colony could have existed for much longer.

Feminism has exposed female inferiority. Glittermama's stumped indignation on this very thread is further proof of this.

11:23 PM, July 15, 2011  
Blogger kmg said...

*than it otherwise would have been.

Sort of like how 9/11 started a sequence of events that exposed a lot of ugly realities about Islamic countries that might otherwise not have been noticed by much of the world.

11:30 PM, July 15, 2011  
Blogger Zorro said...

Just to cement my reputation as having joined the Oink Oink Crew, I am reminded of something Camille Paglia said regarding what the world would look like if women ran everthing:

"Grass huts."

11:33 PM, July 15, 2011  
Blogger kmg said...

Grass huts? That is generous. I would like to see a group of women actually build a grass hut.

...The old joke goes : "How many women does it take to build a grass hut?"

We would still be living in the forest (as chimpanzees do) without male leadership.

11:37 PM, July 15, 2011  
Blogger kmg said...

Just to cement my reputation as having joined the Oink Oink Crew..

Welcome to the gender realism crew.

Gender realism. As existed in *any* society that was not within 30 years of collapse.

11:43 PM, July 15, 2011  
Blogger arctic_front said...

As a late-40's man, I grew up during the 'cusp' of the fem movement. I also had 2 sisters. Mom stayed at home until we were old enough to look after ourselves after school and got a job in a bank. Dad was very old school.

My older sister was looking for a hubby and a sugar-daddy. Younger sister worked her butt off in every male-dominated industrial job known to man and is now, at age 46, a prison guard in an all-male facility.

Are women capable of being equal to
a man... yes. are they willing to be.. not bloody likely. My sister proved that she CAN. But she never let a feminist tell her that she had to or could. She just didn't want to sit behind a desk or watch soap opera's all day. She is more than 'All she could be' in a man's world, all 5'2" of her.

She is, sadly, the exception, not the rule. As one commenter said, it comes down to drive.

I don't fear or resent a woman in my field... but suck it up, Honey, do the job and stop yer whining.

12:18 AM, July 16, 2011  
Blogger br549 said...

Those who are good at what they do make it look easy. So it is safe to assume since men are good at being men, that we make it look easy; and feminists think they can do it ,too.

7:12 AM, July 16, 2011  
Blogger george said...

I think Casey Anthony put herself first. Not sure that worked out a whole lot better.

11:26 AM, July 16, 2011  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

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12:15 PM, July 16, 2011  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

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12:20 PM, July 16, 2011  
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1:51 PM, July 16, 2011  
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3:00 PM, July 16, 2011  
Blogger Zorro said...

"Non-producers combined with big spenders."

Yup. Big time. One of the most popular TV shows with women are those home makeover programs that take a dumpy house and remodel it. Women stick to the seats over those shows. Not that they learn how to drywall or install a new window, but they sure love the chance to decide on what happens and then go shopping for contractors.

Oink, oink!

8:54 PM, July 16, 2011  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

I think feminism is like government or unions. They are good when they are small but bad when they get big. I stereotype most feminists as being in that mind frame where everyone is defined by they victim class. If someone from a victim class tries to break out of their box and be a regular person then watch out! That person will be attacked viciously.

10:57 AM, July 17, 2011  
Blogger Zorro said...

@JoeCavy4: They're not even good when they're small. It's an unhealthy and irresponsible mindset. Omar Sharif, in the film "Night of the Generals," said, "Let us say what is admirable on the large scale is monstrous on the small." This does not apply here.

I have a lot of time for women like Christina Hoff Sommers, but because she identifies herself as a feminist, I discount most of what she says as her paradigm for observing reality is jaded by a toxic viewpoint.

There is literally nothing redeeming about feminism. Not of any stripe. Identity politics is anathema to democracy. It is the sick cult of ME FIRST.

11:35 AM, July 17, 2011  
Blogger DADvocate said...

There is literally nothing redeeming about feminism. Not of any stripe. Identity politics is anathema to democracy. It is the sick cult of ME FIRST.

Amen. Feminism puts itself in the tyrannical position of having absolute say in anything they deem related to being a woman. No amount of logic or reality matters.

2:25 PM, July 17, 2011  
Blogger Phelps said...

Amen. Feminism puts itself in the tyrannical position of having absolute say in anything they deem related to being a woman. No amount of logic or reality matters.


Proclamation 1: Restricting the rights of others based on their genitalia is wrong.

Proclamation 2: No one with a penis has the right to challenge these proclamations.

3:16 PM, July 17, 2011  
Blogger autothreads said...


While men and women have, on average, equal intelligence, the two bell curves are shaped differently, with women's intelligence being distributed more heavily in the middle than men's. There are a lot more very smart (and profoundly stupid) men than women. While there are brilliant women, there are fewer of them than men. Careers that require a lot of intellectual horsepower will favor men.

And yes, being a standup comedian takes a lot of smarts. You have to remember your material, be able to ad lib, and have putdowns for hecklers all while retaining enough distance from your material so you don't start laughing yourself. I'd be willing to bet that if you did standard intelligence tests on standup comedians (and comedy writers as well) they'd be above average. But then, prison inmates are smarter than average too.

(pause for laughs)

In order to do comedy you have to be able to see connections and disconnections where they are not obvious to others. I think you'd say the same about a good scientist or any other job that requires intelligence.

2:26 PM, July 19, 2011  

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