Friday, December 04, 2009

A question for Jessica Ashley, a proponent of violence against men

It seems that Shine staff columnist Jessica Ashley feels sorry for Elin, the wife of Tiger Woods (via Instapundit):

I am not going to opine about whether Elin should or should not stick with her husband (although early reports are saying she's planning to stand by him, after a revision of the prenup). Instead, I say that she should do whatever it is she has to do. If that is taking the tool of her husband's trade to smash the window of his Cadillac Escalade, so be it (my emphasis).If that is combing through his phone and dialing up any suspicious numbers, go to it. If that is trying to work through it (hopefully, with help of a professional), then help yourself. If that is to handle it behind closed doors, then do that.

Although none of us is in the relationship with Tiger and Elin, many of us certainly have been in that situation. If this statistic is right, that 1 in 4.6 married or cohabitating men have been unfaithful, then big crowds of us can understand any of the choices Elin might make (my emphais).

While there will certainly be an audience waiting with bated breath to criticize whether Elin stays with Tiger or walks away, I think we should stand by Elin instead. And if she needs a friend to go at the rest of the windows, pass the golf clubs, Elin. I've got your back.

Gee, Jessica, have you ever read Newsweek? It seems that American women lead secret lives that are not so secret to many people, if they would just open their eyes:

Just how many married women have had sex with people who are not their husbands? It's hard to say for sure, because people lie to pollsters when they talk about sex, and studies vary wildly. (Men, not surprisingly, amplify their sexual experience, while women diminish it.) Couples therapists estimate that among their clientele, the number is close to 30 to 40 percent, compared with 50 percent of men, and the gap is almost certainly closing. In 1991, the National Opinion Research Center at the University of Chicago asked married women if they'd ever had sex outside their marriage, and 10 percent said yes. When the same pollsters asked the same question in 2002, the "yes" responses rose to 15 percent, while the number of men stayed flat at about 22 percent. The best interpretation of the data: the cheating rate for women is approaching that of men, says Tom Smith, author of the NORC's reports on sexual behavior. When Michele Weiner-Davis, a marriage counselor and founder of the Divorce Busting Center in Woodstock, Ill., started practicing 20 years ago, just 10 percent of the infidelity she knew of was committed by women. Now, she believes, it's closer to 50 percent. "Women have suddenly begun to give themselves the same permission to step over the boundary the way that men have."

So my question to this proponent of violence against men is this: Given that women's marital infidelity is approaching that of men (who are catting around just like Tiger), should their husbands feel free to take the tool of his wife's trade and smash in her car and perhaps her face? Because that is what you are advocating. Cheaters get beaten and their property trashed. I don't agree.

Or maybe what you are really saying is that you are for female privilege. If so, just say it out loud so everyone can know where you and your fellow sadistic "crowd" stands, not for equality between the sexes, but as a proponent of violence against men.



Anonymous Anonymous said...

Your point is absolutely logical and consistent, but she would simply avoid it.

I think the true answer is that she is in favor of female privilege, but without explicitly saying it. Explicitly saying it could have a negative impact on her simultaneous notion that women are always the oppressed victims and men are full of privilege.

4:45 AM, December 04, 2009  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

JG, Jessica believes that women should be able to beat their husbands because she's defined what women do as not within the definition of the word "violence". If my personal experience and comments on many blogposts are any indication, the majority, and perhaps even the great majority, of women agree with that.

6:16 AM, December 04, 2009  
Blogger Helen said...


Perhaps what she really believes is that women are weak and need protection from the government, as well as other women who can come to their aid and help them beat up their boyfriend or husband's car. Women like her are weak, but mainly for their lack of ability to understand what true justness and fairness means. Given her logic, at some point, men should be in a position to get revenge against her and her fellow "weak" sisters.

6:28 AM, December 04, 2009  
Blogger BobH said...

And the violence doesn't have to be done with a golf club. Given the paternity fraud laws as they pertain to married couples, all Elin has to do is get get her own lover and get pregnant by him. I'm sure Jessica would approve. Of course, if Elin does that, the case might be high enough profile that the laws would be changed.

Face it, Elin is just a very expensive prostitute.

8:09 AM, December 04, 2009  
Blogger KCFleming said...

", should their husbands feel free to take the tool of his wife's trade and smash in her car and perhaps her face"

But hubby would be in big trouble if the wife is a day care provider.

Smashing toddlers into cars and faces wouldn't be wise, for many reasons, not least of which is they would hardly scratch an Escalade, and they are rather hard to aim when swung, what with all the squirming.

8:20 AM, December 04, 2009  
Blogger KCFleming said...

Plus, what if she sells Escalades?

Plus hard to lift.


8:24 AM, December 04, 2009  
Blogger Trust said...

I also think women empathize with female infidelity moreso than with male infidelity. I think it is because women emotionalize it more, and with male infidelity they channel what their pain to be cheated on would be. And with female infidelity, they tend to look at it more through their eyes, what would drive them to cheat, oh, the poor neglected wife she must be... etc.

I've long beleieved that cheating stat is almost equal, and it wouldn't surprise me if women did it slightly more. (I'm not saying they do.) That is for a few reasons, among them: 1) women are less likely to get caught. 2) women can more easily find opportunities therefore are less likely to screw up. and 3) it's easy for women to get people to really behind them and see the husbands as culprits.

"America's Rabbi" Shmuley Boteach asserts all the time that "when a woman cheats, an unattentive husband is almost always the culprit" but he flipped out when Dr. Laura Schlessinger suggested that "while men are responsible for their infidelity, men are less likely to cheat when they aren't neglected by their wives." Under what math he calculates his statement is fair and hers is blaming women for men's actions is beyond me.

Take any group of people along any gender, racial, ethnic, religious, etc. lines, and make an excuse for them and blame another group, and it shouldn't be surprising that the behaviour you are excusing increases. When we paint women as victims of men, even for their own actions, what follows should not be surprising. (Side note: this is how we get the absurd state: 1 in 4 women is raped. It's a way to blame men when a woman changes her mind post-intercourse)

8:29 AM, December 04, 2009  
Blogger BlogDog said...

I suggest that starting now the writer of that piece be identified as "domestic violence advocate Jessica Ashley."

8:33 AM, December 04, 2009  
Blogger Mike said...

This comment has been removed by the author.

8:33 AM, December 04, 2009  
Blogger Brian Macker said...

If a guy attacked his wife this way it would be evidence of 1) That he's been beating her all along. 2) She was sleeping around to get away from an obsessively jealous control freak. 3) The wife's silence about the matter and desire to get back with the husband would only be more evidence that she was being coerced.

8:36 AM, December 04, 2009  
Blogger Mike said...


Boteach is one of those men who believes that a women have no duties to their husband. In college, I got to hear Dr Ruth talk to a mixed auditorium, and she shocked most of the students by bluntly telling both sexes essentially that sex is a basic human need, and that she has little sympathy for people of either gender who won't "take a few minutes" to get their partner off just because they're not immediately in the mood.

8:42 AM, December 04, 2009  
Blogger Bill said...

I haven't paid a lot of attention to men's issues over the years, but I have recently become aware of them, and I am shocked at the number of people who seem to think that "if he was cheating, he had it coming."


8:44 AM, December 04, 2009  
Blogger netmarcos said...

I spent some time working in Utah's First District Court and my experience leads me to conclude the the gender ratio in domestic violence approaches 1:1

9:00 AM, December 04, 2009  
Blogger The Crack Emcee said...

Domestic violence is always wrong? Ha! Feminists didn't believe it when they first said it (it was a cynical ploy to get at men) and, as Jessica shows, they don't believe it now. Unless a man does it - *nice* game they're running out there.

Anyone who believes domestic violence is always wrong - after someone has publicly humiliated all their spouse's dedication - is a sadist. As evide4nced by many of the comments here, the public has a billion ways to spin shit so the cheater never feels anything but they're (maybe) going to be out of money and they're getting the opportunity to do more wrong. You're enablers.

I say, do what you got to do until the stupid lamers get it through their heads to respect each other: The idea of an adulterer (male or female) going through life with a scarlet letter etched into their face, or walking for the rest of their lives with a serious limp, doesn't bother me. They deserve it.

A hell of a lot more than the protection they get under your lame anti-violence excuses anyway.

9:22 AM, December 04, 2009  
Blogger tom swift said...

Gotta love stuff like this -

"It's hard to say for sure, because people lie to pollsters when they talk about sex"

Yes they do. And because they do, the stats which follow are, obviously, worthless; no more than guesswork (or perhaps wishful thinking).

Well, it's Newsweek; can't expect much.

9:45 AM, December 04, 2009  
Blogger Diggs said...

You need only attend one session of a real divorce court to see that women legally beat the crap out of men every day.

10:00 AM, December 04, 2009  
Blogger Magson said...

I just read an old series of books from the 80's in which the setting was a place where various "wizards" could create their own realms and essentially set up the laws of physics, appearances of the people who live there, laws, etc according to their own whims.

Some realms oppressed women badly. Others oppressed men. Still others were actually fairly decent places to live. Interestingly enough.... several of the female heroes of the tale initially set up realms that were more or less balanced, but still dominated by women. They later came into contact with other realms where women were oppressed badly and had to have it pointed out to them "You didn't seem to mind the places where the men were oppressed, and your own realm has women as top dogs -- why the double standard?"

Since in my experience the fiction of the day reflects the attitude of the day...... seems this attitude has been around a lot longer than we want to realize.

10:03 AM, December 04, 2009  
Blogger GawainsGhost said...

Well, as far as the cheating stat goes, I've always thought it was bogus. The reason why is this.

A man cannot enter into a sexual relationship in a non-reproductive state. Absent sterility or surgical alteration, from the day he begins puberty to the day he dies he is constantly fertile.

Not so for a woman. When she begins puberty, she begins a cycle. She is fertile for a few days a month, then not for several weeks. And after menopause, she is infertile for the rest of her life.

Thus, she has a choice that no man can have. She can enter into a sexual relationship in a reproductive state or a nonreproductive state, purely for pleasure. Therefore, between the two, which is the most likely to engage in sex just for the fun of it?

A man marries a woman. He runs around his wife's back and gets his girlfriend pregnant. What's going to happen? Well, his wife is going to divorce and sue the living shit out of him, take his house and half of his money, gain custody of his children, and generally make him pay for it for the rest of his life. Also, his girlfriend is going to demand and get child support, and most likely won't want to have anything else to do with him since he's not married anymore. That's a lose-lose proposition for him.

A woman marries a man. She runs around behind her husband's back and gets pregnant by her boyfriend. What's going to happen? Well, she's going to stick her husband with the child support, and there is absolutely nothing he can do about it. In fact, she can walk out at any time, divorce him, take his house and half of his money, move in with her boyfriend to raise their love child together, on her former husband's dime. That's a win-win proposition for her.

This is equality? And now women are advocating violence against men for infidelity, real or imagined, while at the same time demanding special privileges, and money, when they themselves commit the same offense.

For all the talk about marriage being the oppression of women, it's actually the exploitation of men. That's feminist ideology writ large.

10:06 AM, December 04, 2009  
Blogger skat said...

Tragically, people die from spouses cheating. A 6 year boy who took piano lessons from my daughters' piano teacher was born with AIDS and his mother had died 2 years before. His father, her husband was messing around, she was diagnosed with AIDS right before his birth. Sounds life Tiger was finding any tramp he could - Elin is lucky if she hasn't contracted a sexual disease.
Tiger was texting his favorite floosy in his house with his wife there. Is the man a total idiot? Yes!
Is he a total louse? Yes
If you read the comments at - a site I like- the men are excusing Tiger, he's got money, she drove him to it, he's got the right, etc.
Tiger, the big brain, also counted on the sleeze ball women covering up for him, I guess because he's so special and lovable. None of those women would have exploited the texts or messages, hoping to gain financially would they? No, because Tiger is so great.
Should Elin have attacked Tiger? No. Did he really, really ask for it? Yes.
There is no justification for adultery.
These "women" of Tiger's are a terrible disgrace! These women's families should be disgraced! Unfortunately, many will be proud that their immoral, brainless tramp slept with Tiger and are going to get 15 minutes of fame.

10:11 AM, December 04, 2009  
Blogger Cham said...

For me, when looking at the content of the post, is that if someone, anyone, male or female, old or young, behaves badly does that give other people the license to behave badly as well?

The answer is no. And it doesn't matter whether it has to do with infidelity or rudeness.

10:23 AM, December 04, 2009  
Blogger DADvocate said...

Shoot your husband in the back while he's sleeping, burn him alive in bed, etc, etc. Woman kills/attacks husband/boyfriend-OK. It's the man's fault.

10:52 AM, December 04, 2009  
Blogger Der Hahn said...

This comment has been removed by the author.

10:53 AM, December 04, 2009  
Blogger Der Hahn said...

BobH - Elin is just a very expensive prostitute.

In retrospect, maybe. Do you really think Tiger is getting any at home from now on?


On several occasions I've heard women boast that they would cover up a friend's affair, no reason needed, and fully expected that their friends would do the same for them. I'm not sure what impact that attitude would have on polling data but it doesn't make me think the reported rate of female infidelity is higher than the actual rate.

10:55 AM, December 04, 2009  
Blogger Think Extraordinary said...

Women like her are weak, but mainly for their lack of ability to understand what true justness and fairness means.

11:07 AM, December 04, 2009  
Blogger Think Extraordinary said...

25 Sexiest Things Ever Said by Women A woman marries a man. She runs around behind her husband's back and gets pregnant by her boyfriend.

11:09 AM, December 04, 2009  
Blogger Jeff Y said...

Dr. Helen, you're awesome. Thanks for the post.

12:04 PM, December 04, 2009  
Blogger bmmg39 said...

Dr. Helen, thank you and bless you for carrying this torch so many times. You represent so many people (and so many women) out there who are sick to death of double standards like this one.

Randian: "JG, Jessica believes that women should be able to beat their husbands because she's defined what women do as not within the definition of the word 'violence'."

Just to quibble, I think Ashley was "endorsing" only the attack on Woods's car, not on his person. It's still domestic abuse, of course, since we hear that a man's destroying his wife's belongings constitutes DV even if he never actually touches her. And so a woman smashing her husband's vehicle (remember the Carrie Underwood song?) should be considered DV, as well.

"If my personal experience and comments on many blogposts are any indication, the majority, and perhaps even the great majority, of women agree with that."

My experience in the blogosphere differs from yours. Yes, I've come across many dolts (male and female) who say things like "He got what he deserved," or, "How can it be abuse if she's smaller than he is?" but I've also come across boatloads of men and women who are sickened by the hypocrisy.

12:06 PM, December 04, 2009  
Blogger TMink said...

"Or maybe what you are really saying is that you are for female privilege."

People who play the victim card usually have the reparations card up their sleeve. She was so victimized that she is entitled to abuse him don'tcaknow.


12:06 PM, December 04, 2009  
Blogger bmmg39 said...

bmmg39: "You represent so many people (and so many women)..."

Obviously, I meant to say "including so many women." I'm obviously not suggesting that women are something different from people...

12:07 PM, December 04, 2009  
Blogger Cosmo said...

Cultural conditioning. This attitude has been a long time in the making.

My foreign-born wife was shocked at the number of times she saw women striking men in movies and on television when she first arrived here, often for things as small as a perceived slight or insult. I'd always sort of noticed it, but by the time she pointed it out, it had become part of the cultural furniture.

As to the fairness issue, turn the gender tables and make it anyone but a mega-star like Woods and the guy might be up on attempted murder charges, depending upon the vindictiveness of the attacked spouse and how zealously local laws were applied.

1:47 PM, December 04, 2009  
Blogger skat said...

I agree that women are often favored over men in divorce court, etc.
Among other things, I object to men being represented as dolts in tv advertising.
However, let me see if I have this straight. Presumably, Tiger falls in love with Elin or pretends to fall in love with her. Presumably, Elin falls in love with Tiger and accepts his marriage proposal. Tiger repeatedly cheats on her many different women.
I'm taking the attack out of the picture since I'm NOT defending Elin on that.
So now, Elin's marriage to Tiger in some twisted, illogical way makes Elin, according to Der Hahn and BobH, "a very expensive prostitute". I'll bet Der Hahn would be sleeping with his wife under simliar circumstances.
So, Dr. Helen, do you agree with these disgusting statements?

3:26 PM, December 04, 2009  
Blogger Helen said...


The disgusting statements I disagree with are the ones made by the author of the article I noted and some of her commenters who seem to agree that beating a car and possibly a man is the way to cope with infidelity. I imagine that you would not be on any site defending a man who beat his wife's car with a golf club and possibly punched her tooth out in any way for the same transgressions that Woods engaged in. If you do, let me know. You say there is no justification for adultery. I say there is no justification for a society that thinks women can administer to men any type of vigilante justice they wish, just for the crime of being male.

4:23 PM, December 04, 2009  
Blogger The Crack Emcee said...

Dear Dr. Helen,

Yes, I would defend a man for punching a woman - they ain't special. Where I come from, women are equal because they can fight - and will. I don't know what to make of the position you're defending:

Adultery isn't just some boyfriend/girlfriend indescretion, but the willing betrayal of someone who gave you everything - mind, body, and "soul" for life - placing being made a "cuckold" in a totally different category from "cheating".

I think you make to light of this - the whole "no-fault divorce" make-up of how we look at this is wrong. Tiger should be made to literally stand before the people he swore in front of, on his wedding day, and explain himself. Then he should lose everything - the same thing he asked of his wife - screw the pre-nup. Either marriage is real or it isn't, and if it is, then act like it:

Betrayal gets whatever it deserves.

4:42 PM, December 04, 2009  
Blogger The Crack Emcee said...

BTW - I think the ability to fight is why so many black women do better on happiness indexes than others:

It breeds self-confidence.

4:54 PM, December 04, 2009  
Blogger skat said...

So basically you agree that Elin is a high paid prostitute because she agreed to marry Tiger Woods. You also agree, I assume from your statement, that there is justification for adultery.
I specifically stated that I didn't support Elin's actions regarding Tiger's actions. I don't, however, I think adultery is a dangerous activity with death as a possible consequence from disease or murder by husband/wife/lover a real possibility. One example, the former TN quarterback killed by his "mistress". Anyone stupid enough to engage in sex talk with a (misnamed) "lover" right in front of their spouse or "partner" better have on running shoes or body armor. I'm stating the obvious, humans, both men and women, become enraged and do things they shouldn't/regret. I believe in equal justice for men and women - I never stated anything to the contrary. Tiger, it seems, is protecting his wife, just as wives often protect their husbands.
I strongly disagree with calling her a prostitute, but NO, you think that's fine. Tiger, I believe, came from a middle class family, maybe he wanted to marry a nice, non-rich, non-party girl he loved who loved him. That makes her a prostitute? I think that makes her Tiger's wife,mother of his children, worthy of his love, loyalty, devotion, and respect. I'm old- fashioned at 55 I guess, but that's how what my Mom and Dad modeled for their eight kids. That's what my wonderful husband shows me everyday and he demonstrates it for our 5 daughters. I'm truly sorry for marriages that don't have that. I'd like to see these "men" call Elin a prostitute to her dad's face.
I would echo The Crack Emcee without the fighting, punching part.
I sure you're aware that Christianity views sex in marriage as a martial obligation - I saw you mentioned your view on that. Faithfulness is also an obligation. Or do you just pick and choose?
Happily, my family members, friends, etc aren't these pitiable losers - men who hate women, women who hate men, etc, etc No one wins with that attitude.
If that - "prostitute" - is really your opinion, your opinion isn't worth dirt!

5:29 PM, December 04, 2009  
Blogger skat said...

The Crack Emcee
My husband has made sure our daughters can IF they need to DEFEND themselves. All women should know at least some basic self-defense moves so they can protect themselves with the object of escaping and surviving dangerous situations. KRAV MAGA is a great program for that.

5:33 PM, December 04, 2009  
Blogger Cham said...

The police in Florida were able to interview the neighbor who came to assist with the Tiger Woods accident. He said that Elin Woods told them she broke the back window so she could unlock a door to get Tiger Woods out of the car. This makes much more sense than her chasing the car with a golf club and dragging him over 2 car seats and through a broken window to get him out. It is also stated that Tiger was on the ground and snoring when the neighbor showed up. I don't think Elin physically attacked Tiger Woods.

5:41 PM, December 04, 2009  
Blogger Helen said...


I never said Elin was a prostitute--those are your words. Attributing them to me is a distortion.

6:16 PM, December 04, 2009  
Blogger skat said...

No, I quoted some of your posters, asked if you disagreed with them stating Elin was a prostitute. You stated that the ONLY disgusting comments you disagreed with were the ones made in the article you sited. That's no distortion.
For some odd reason, you inferred I was defending women attacking men which I never did! Stating that I wouldn't go to another site and defend a man who attacked a woman, as if I was here. Well, if some wife, with her husband there, was stupid enough to do the idiotic things Tiger did, with his wife there, I wouldn't be at all surprised if her husband hit her. Sorry, I'm not that naive. Would I condone the husband hitting his wife? No. Would I think he should have left till he cooled down? Yes, but I can't believe anyone would think the offended spouse might not go ballistic.

6:47 PM, December 04, 2009  
Blogger The Crack Emcee said...

"Would I think he should have left till he cooled down? Yes,..."

Of course:

Go for a walk. Ponder how you've just been betrayed, made a fool of publicly, and will now have to fight, tooth and nail, to keep *a portion* of what you worked for, probably to make the ungrateful bitch/asshole proud and happy - because, according to the rules, there's absolutely no one at fault.

Then come back and light him/her up - but good.

7:14 PM, December 04, 2009  
Anonymous Anonymous said...


OF COURSE his wife is pretty much a prostitute. He's rich, and if he doesn't toe the line, he has to give her something like $300 million. He is stupid.

He is stupid for getting married.

But he did. Now I see that he is changing his prenuptial agreement so that she will stay with him.

Can you spell "expoitive" or "using bitch" any more clearly?

Whatever. She found her fountain of gold.

7:21 PM, December 04, 2009  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

This comment has been removed by the author.

7:25 PM, December 04, 2009  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

This comment has been removed by the author.

7:27 PM, December 04, 2009  
Blogger skat said...

Did you notice I mentioned MY HUSBAND? That would be my husband that I supported while he got his business started. The business we are now partners in together.
I'm so thankful that there are men and women out there who aren't just filled with hate towards men/women.
She did work, by the way.
Could it possibly be, this will drive you over the edge, that Tiger thinks he found his "fountain of gold" and doesn't want to lose her?
I can't believe I'd ever say anything like this, but I hope the bitter, angry men posting here stay as far away from women as possible.
I can only hope you're all homosexuals.
You Tether are a very unhappy person. I pity you.

I'm so thankful that there are

7:40 PM, December 04, 2009  
Blogger skat said...

The Crack Emcee
Well, I certainly lean more to your thinking than to the others.

No one's word means anything, does it? No one should be embarrassed by cheating on their spouse. No one should suffer any consequences. What does Elin matter - she's barely human. Tiger can play golf.

Elin should have said, "Hey Tiger, when you're done with all that sex stuff with the girls I have some chocolate cake out here for you." I'm sure that's how all of us would react.

Now, according to the police and witnesses, she was actually helping him. Most of the men commenting blame her. They consider her on the level of a breeding mare who should be content to be used at and for Tiger's pleasure. So what do these men think Tiger's kids are? Something really nice, I'm sure.
My dad told my sisters and I that know man wants a woman who doesn't have a mind of her own. I guess he was talking about a real man.

7:57 PM, December 04, 2009  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

This comment has been removed by the author.

8:12 PM, December 04, 2009  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

This comment has been removed by the author.

8:20 PM, December 04, 2009  
Blogger skat said...

Wow some woman is really missing out you! I'll bet you have women just beating down your door. Just begging you to support them - you're probably so rich.
What a prize you would be just as a friend.
Such a great vocabulary and astounding intelligence!
I'm sure you just dazzle everyone with your bitterness and bile.
As I said, I'll take a real man any day - something you'll never be.
I'm done talking with an ignorant, foul-mouthed woman hater. Yes, there are plenty of women who hate men - imitation men like you give them good reason to. I'm sure your mom is so proud of the wonderful person you've turned out to be. Oh, but let's see what would YOU call your OWN MOTHER, I wonder? Judging by your disgusting comments, I can't imagine it's anything she'd want to hear. I pity her.

8:51 PM, December 04, 2009  
Anonymous Anonymous said...


Get a job, Skat.

9:03 PM, December 04, 2009  
Blogger bmmg39 said...

Could we all maybe respect Dr. Helen's blog here?

9:47 PM, December 04, 2009  
Blogger blahga the hutt said...

"I can't believe I'd ever say anything like this, but I hope the bitter, angry men posting here stay as far away from women as possible."

I'm a little late to this conversation...


To be honest, I really don't want to get into a relationship with a woman (no I don't sleep around or do one night stands and no I'm not gay). This is mainly because I think things are so screwed up and mainly a crap shoot that I just can't trust the odds of finding someone. That's not being bitter or angry; that's just reality. As for being miserable because of it, nope. I can entertain myself, thanks, and I at least get to keep all of my money (well, at least after taxes).

Feminists have told the GenXers and Millenials that they don't need men. Ok, no problem. Just don't be surprised if many men find other things to do accordingly. Bear in mind that most of the current nonsense goes right back to the sexual revolution in the 60s.

Take a look at our literature and media: it's chock full of one night stands and infidelity. Our society, as is, actively encourages this nonsense!

Am I giving men a free pass on this? Nope. I can't, for the life of me, understand why a guy would get married and them proceed to be unfaithful. If one wants to sleep around, then don't get married! But as Tether said, you can't really deny that Elin was bought and sold some time ago.

11:02 AM, December 05, 2009  
Blogger kentuckyliz said...

Elin's not a prostitute.

Prostitutes are paid to GO AWAY.

11:31 AM, December 05, 2009  
Blogger Ronnie Schreiber said...


Elin Woods is now renegotiating her prenup, increasing the amount she will be paid and reducing the length of marriage before she will be vested. Provided she stays married to Woods for that length of time (reported to be shortened to 7 years), she will get an 8 figure payout, reported to be $70 million.

The agreement compels Mrs. Woods to appear to be a loving and loyal spouse and to attend public events with Mr. Woods.

In other words, she's getting paid to be Tiger's wife.

While not exactly prostitution, I think you can well understand those of us who think that Elin's actions are not that far removed from selling sex. She's certainly selling companionship. Just how different is her behavior from that of a professional escort who is paid for a dinner date? Alternatively, how different is Mrs. Woods from a "kept woman"?

Women can have bizarre standards. I know a woman who forgave her own husband for an extended affair (well, she didn't divorce him - I'm unconvinced that women ever completely forgive about anything, they tend to remember resentments a long, long time) but financed her daughter's divorce when her son-in-law was being irresponsible with money.

Bottom line is the bottom line. Most women think of their own security first, then their kids' well being. They're not completely unconcerned with their husbands' well being - they certainly want them healthy enough to keep earning a paycheck, but their overall concern for their husbands is way back in line behind themselves, their kids, their birth families and their girlfriends. If they tire of him as a companion, they use the state to turn him into an indentured servant.

Some women may be exceptions, but that's the way American women are socialized these days.

Dennis Prager points out that while boys are taught to suppress their natural violent and sexual tendencies, girls are never taught to suppress their own natural tendencies to mother and nurture i.e. control. What girls and women do is considered normal and right and what boys and men do is considered unfortunate at best. Add the last 40 years of concern about the needs of girls and women to the exclusion of male needs and it's easy to see why many women think that it's okay for a woman to beat her husband if he cheats. It's also easy to see why women think a married man who uses prostitutes is a pig but that the women in their own social circles who now have half of their ex-husbands' assets somehow "earned" that money.

12:33 PM, December 05, 2009  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Of course Tiger's wife is a hooker.

No doubt in my mind at all.

But in the final analysis, who cares?

She is richer - and will be richer - than anyone here. She will be wined and dined and given inordinate attention for several years before she ejects Stupid and simply takes his money. Then she can fuck the gardener or whoever she wants and live in the lap of luxury.

She (and people like her, for instance Heather Mills) have far, far, far more money than emergency room physicians or firemen or FBI agents or cancer researchers or any number of other people who really contribute something to society. Put together.

I never understood why that is. Somehow being a using bitch is worth far more in society than actually contributing something.


6:59 PM, December 05, 2009  
Blogger Trust said...

@JG said... "I never understood why that is. Somehow being a using bitch is worth far more in society than actually contributing something. Why?

Because it gets votes.

10:23 PM, December 05, 2009  
Blogger Pluto's Dad said...

not having a comment is not the same as agreeing. Dr. Helen's post is about domestic violence, it is not about infidelity. When I read her it sounds to me like she is trying to stick to the subject.

You and emcee seem to be stuck on the indfidelity aspect, which has nothing to do with whether domestic violence is ok or not. Domestic violence has nothing at all to do with the vrious reasons people marry, or what marriage means.

11:03 AM, December 07, 2009  
Blogger The Crack Emcee said...

Here - let me repeat:

"Domestic violence is always wrong? Ha!"

Are we clear?

1:02 PM, December 07, 2009  
Blogger Justin said...

What's wrong with beating up someone who cheats on you? I don't see a darn thing wrong with it, not a thing.

12:27 PM, December 08, 2009  
Blogger bmmg39 said...

What's wrong is using violence to resolve a non-violent situation.

11:42 PM, December 08, 2009  
Blogger Justin said...

Infidelity IS a violent situation.
Moreover, beating up the unfaithful one wouldn't be resolving it. But it would be well-deserved. You cheat, you get beat. Guarantee you one thing: if more people had my attitude, we'd have less cheating.

Ask that black quarterback if infidelity is a violent situation. Oh wait, you can't, he's dead.

When you start a fight, you don't get to choose how it ends. And cheating, oh yeah, that is starting a fight.

2:35 AM, December 09, 2009  
Anonymous Anonymous said...


Unfortunately for you and your world view, police departments and prosecutors don't see it the same way.

Although there is still quite a bit of "looking the other way" for women in some jurisdictions, if you are a man, the police and prosecutors are going to figuratively (and ... with some police departments ... literally) beat the living crap out of you for domestic violence.

They are not going to do a thing about infidelity. She can fuck everyone in sight, laugh in your face about it, and then take your assets in a no-fault divorce action.

That's how things are set up today, so it's incomprehensible that men still want to marry and it's also incomprehensible that men exist with your world view and the idea that you are going to keep Pumpkin in line with violence.

You aren't going to, trust me.

3:28 AM, December 09, 2009  
Blogger Aurelian said...

What was that phrase? "Old age or 12 gauge."

1:28 PM, December 09, 2009  
Blogger bmmg39 said...

Justin: "Infidelity IS a violent situation."

No, it isn't, dearie. People cheat on their partners all the time (which is wrong) without violence entering the situation. Steve McNair happened to be killed by the person he was having an affair with -- just as people are often killed by their spouses. Would you say that marriage is a violent situation, since people are sometimes killed by their spouses?

6:19 PM, December 09, 2009  
Blogger Freeman Hunt said...

This comment has been removed by the author.

10:37 PM, December 10, 2009  

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