Friday, December 25, 2009

Women's violence against men is really dangerous

Ann Althouse makes a good point in response to an article that reports Elin Nordegren hit Tiger Woods with a golf club to wake him from an Ambien-induced sleep. Her response is to a commenter who thought that hitting a man with a golf club wasn't attempted murder, but a wake up call:

AllenS wrote: "Nonsense, it was a wake up call." Now, I was going to use a "wake-up call" wisecrack in the original post. Why did I reject it? Because it would signal that women's violence against men isn't really dangerous, isn't really a crime. It would say that when a woman has a righteous reason to be angry at her man, what would otherwise be a crime is not a crime. Think about how ugly it is to hit someone with a golf club while he is asleep. Did she know it was an Ambien-induced sleep — from which it will be very difficult to wake up and defend himself? How hard a swing did she take at him? It seems it was scary enough to make him run out of the house and attempt to drive — quickly — when he was in no condition to drive.

I'll add this: it doesn't matter if Nordegren knew Woods was in an Ambien-induced sleep. A spouse has no right to hit his or her partner with a golf club for cheating, regardless of the reason. Yell? Yes. Cry? Yes. Tell him to leave? Sure. Leave herself? Of course.

But to use a weapon to whack him and run him out to the car to escape, if this is what really happened, is not the way to resolve a problem like this, nor should it be legal for a male or female to beat their spouse with a weapon for cheating. It is very dangerous in this case, because, as a man, Woods probably had no other recourse than to get in the car and get away, or face being put in jail for defending himself.



Blogger DADvocate said...

She should have just shot him in the back with a shotgun while he slept. That would have been OK.

4:33 PM, December 25, 2009  
Blogger Cham said...

Us Weekly, cites a source from "other pro golfers" for this information about Elin allegedly whacking a sleeping Tiger. Um, I think I need better information before I believe that is what happened.

6:38 PM, December 25, 2009  
Blogger The Dude said...

Just watched some SNL Christmas sketches - Phil Hartman sure was funny. What ever happened to him, anyway?

9:59 PM, December 25, 2009  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

This comment has been removed by the author.

12:57 AM, December 26, 2009  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

She should have just shot him in the back with a shotgun while he slept. That would have been OK.

Or burned him alive. Feminists would have given her a medal for that.

12:57 AM, December 26, 2009  
Blogger Topher said...

I am absolutely shocked at the suborning of violence I hear of from women I know. What planet are they from? Infidelity is not an assault nor an act of violence. You cannot respond with force to a non-assault.

In the absence of marriage or an equivalent commitment (which describes all the twentysomethings I know) infidelity is almost a null concept - especially if you have not been dating very long.

I do like to call these girls out on their "logic," which usually reduces them to content-free blubbering within a minute.

I have no doubt though that is where feminist law is going. They've already made "I feel threatened," in absence of any actual evidence, grounds for finding abuse in divorce/custody disputes. (Only if a woman feels threatened, of course - men are told to suck it up.) Why wouldn't they want to make cheating a "mitigating factor" that made it OK for a woman to assault a man?

The other next frontier of feminist law is already on the table - alimony and asset transfer when non-married couples break up, essentially extending common-law marriage to shack-up cases who are in no way even pretending to commit to one another.

3:53 AM, December 26, 2009  
Blogger Topher said...

randian, dadvocate -

You are thinking smalltime. Live castration would be the Holy Grail, symbolic and literal neutering.

3:54 AM, December 26, 2009  
Blogger B. Durbin said...

"Phil Hartman sure was funny. What ever happened to him, anyway?"

He died some years back. There's a saying that the first sign of heart disease is usually a heart attack.

Anyway, how is hitting someone with a piece of metal NOT an attempted murder? I can see downgrading it to assault if she were aiming below the knees, but seriously, a golf club is a deadly weapon. With a knob on the end.

12:57 AM, December 27, 2009  
Blogger The Dude said...

Nice, B. Durbin, but you missed my point by a wide margin. Go back, do some research, then see how my comment relates to this thread.

And remember, Elin whacked Tiger in the head. That's why he has not been seen in public since Thanksgiving - he needs time to heal. He also needs to think about why he would shield a felon from prosecution.

I predict a new line of commercials featuring Elin. Her name can be mispronounced and the voice-over can be along the line of "I'm Elin, I'm jellin' like a felon." Oh yeah, the money will roll in...

9:49 AM, December 27, 2009  
Blogger kmg said...

Feminists have become the new Al-Qaeda.

4:30 PM, December 27, 2009  
Blogger kmg said...

It is a matter of time before Western Men realize that Islam offers them a better deal than the feminized, misandric West does.

Islamic courts are already operating in Britain, and non-Muslims are allowed to go there.

4:31 PM, December 27, 2009  
Blogger kmg said...

Topfer wrote :

I am absolutely shocked at the suborning of violence I hear of from women I know.

You are only shocked because you have not learned how (most) women think.

Justify violence against Tiger Woods, while excusing Roman Polanski and Ted Kennedy.

This is perfectly normal and understandable once you learn how (most) women think.

4:33 PM, December 27, 2009  
Blogger Derve Swanson said...

Do (most) women also have experience with Mr. Cheating Tiger Flaming Pants?

I'd hate to think (most of) our girl folk are violent club weilders, while (most of) our men folk are cheating cowards who hide then run when their mommy-wives figure out the score.

Real macho men don't cheat. They explain their needs, and where they are going to get them met. And if the wife isn't ok with that, they don't call mistress number 9 begging her to take her name off her outgoing message, lest the mommy-wife catches what's going on...

Tiger was a coward, and a weak man. There are many others who play these games, better. Without the deceit, you don't often have the club weilding women taking you out.

Doesn't excuse what happened but it does explain why he's too weak to be honest about it now, and seek the protections battered men and women are afforded as victims under the law.

But first... the man has to admit he's a victim being battered. For some, it's probably easier to just stop cheating and hiding, if that's the reason for the battering behaviour, as it seems to be here. (Was Elin knocking him about in his sleep BEFORE she learned of his infidelities and possible disease transmission? Probably, he wants to hide from those admissions too.)

kmg: If you are in trouble, remember find a male counselor to talk to if you think (most) women won't be sympathetic to your needs if indeed you are a silent man suffering physically at the hands of a woman.

Break the Silence, man. Light a candle and have a night walk to boost your courage. Battered men of the world can use Tiger Woods as a role model, if needed, to make sure their shame is silent no more.

Although, I'm pretty sure Tiger wishes he could just be privately ashamed at this point.

9:57 AM, December 28, 2009  
Blogger Topher said...


Not sure if your post is earnest or a sort of sarcastic, "boo hoo let's feel sorry for Tiger being a victim"

Spare us the Real Man (TM) nonsense; for some reason Oprah-ized women love to pump around ideals of a "Real Man" which curiously enough (that was sarcasm) is a mindreader, gives infinite deference to women and always does what a woman wants in that exact situation without her having to lower herself to his communicative level. We are supposed to listen as women in academia and the media lambast men as emotionally inferior and domestically incompetent, and then follow their advice to become "Real Men." How come there is no talk of "Real Women"? Do "Real Women" not withold sex, not demand material lavishings and not make up abuse stories to win custody in divorce? How come only Dr Laura and Dr Ruth say this?

Rant over, on to the content of your post itself - it is highly doubtful that Woods was a happily married man who one day decided he was bored and became a womanizer, and I think it's inappropriate to treat the situation like a man with a midlife crisis. I see the womanizing as simply an extension of the personality traits that make him the best in his sport.

From all accounts, Woods is an intensely private, hardworking, type-A competitive, never-satisfied person whose traits are beyond the comprehension of middle of the bell curve people who buy scratch tickets and gamble on winning the lottery as a retirement plan.

Some competitive people want to go home to a quiet life where they can relax for a bit. But not all - Bill Clinton's political and sexual proclivities were two sides of the same coin.

Tiger's competitive streak appears to extend into his romantic life. Indeed, his "courting" of Elin itself was fraught with rejections and persistence. When he treated her as a prize to be won in the dating process I wonder why anyone is surprised at his behavior...people like Tiger are successful because they are not satisfied with the latest prize and immediately begin seeking the next one. Once Tiger treated his wife as a prize it should have been open season on when he was going to bag another woman.

12:45 PM, December 28, 2009  
Blogger Gabriel Hanna said...

Hartman had twice divorced before he married Brynn (née Omdahl) in 1987; the couple had two children together. However, their marriage was fractured, due in part to Brynn's drug use. On May 28, 1998, Brynn shot and killed her husband while he slept in their Encino, Los Angeles home, then committed suicide several hours later. In the weeks following his death, Hartman was celebrated in a wave of tributes. Dan Snierson of Entertainment Weekly opined that Hartman was "the last person you'd expect to read about in lurid headlines in your morning paper."

7:08 PM, December 28, 2009  
Blogger Derve Swanson said...

If he thought a Real Man takes on the responsibilities of a marraige and children, then cheats when he gets bored ... then he should have stayed single.

That's why he's not complaining today of the domestic violence he allegedly suffered.

Putting other battered men into the same shoes as Tiger Woods is a bit silly. Most don't have the resources he has, not the incentives to keep the whole thing swept under the rug.

If you're losing any sleep or tears over Tiger Woods' predicament, maybe don't marry if you find yourself in the same situation.

Real men might need to look elsewhere, but they don't follow up by calling the mistress and trying to hide it from the little wifey. They're a bit more upfront about their needs, and where/how they are getting met. Then, the spouse can choose to stay ... or go.

8:49 PM, December 28, 2009  
Blogger Topher said...


1. What is your obsession with some Platonic ideal of "Real Men"? Is there some benefit to questioning his "manhood"?

2. "If you're losing any sleep or tears over Tiger Woods' predicament, maybe don't marry if you find yourself in the same situation."

Does this mean "he was asking for it?" Sounds like you're OK with violence in response to infidelity, which is an unequal response (how can assault be issues?

What if I were to posit that we not feel badly for party girls who got raped because they shouldn't have gone into that situation? That's akin to what you have said; I have a feeling what your response will be. I'd also love to hear if you think it's OK for a man to beat a wife who sleeps around.

3. As far as "Tiger's needs and how they were being met," I've made the point that Tiger is an outlier personality - which is what makes him so good at his craft, and also means his "needs" can't be "met" by a wife. Tiger is not a suburban husband whose wife got harpy and started witholding sex and he got "bored" and went elsewhere for it. He's an obsessive perfectionist and competitor which led him to seek mistresses as prizes.

10:12 AM, December 29, 2009  
Blogger Derve Swanson said...

I'm not questioning his manhood so much as pointing out that other men who make better choices, and act more responsibly in being accountable for making those choices, generally seem to fare better.

As we more and more lose the ideal of manhood, as defined by character, I think we tend to forget the above distinction.

Not interested in debating, just clarifying my thoughts in the early comment, for your benefit. Make of them what you will -- again, just another opinion on female violence, and those men who are "obsessive perfectionist(s) and competitor(s) which led (him) to seek mistresses as prizes" and then refuse to follow up when he was allegedly battered by his wife, after she allegedly found out about one of his mistresses, whom he earlier had called and begged to erase her identity from her phone machine for fear of what his wife might do to him if "caught".

If that's Manhood (with a capital M) to you in a sport known as a character game, then we can just agree to disagree. You see the admirable qualities; I see a weak man.

11:52 AM, December 29, 2009  
Blogger Mario said...

NKVD, I'm not sure B. Durbin in fact missed your point. I think he's being as witty as you. No one said Phil Hartman died of a heart attack. We know what he died of. But were there signs that what killed him was going to happen to him?

I think that's Durbin's joke.

9:29 PM, December 29, 2009  
Blogger The Dude said...

Mario, it is good that you look out for the dense and unwitty B. Durbin, but B. Durbin does not need another mother. Speak for yourself, and allow B. Durbin to do the same. Your argument that "we know" it fallacious. Prior to the fatal shooting there were signs that Mrs. Hartman was insane and going to do harm. Look into it.

If Durbin ever posts here again then I am sure the he or she can clarify that previous opaque post. In any case, maybe you think sudden fatal heart attacks are funny, or that being shot to death while sleeping is very droll, but for those of us a bit closer to the subject, let me assure you, there is no humor in either scenario.

7:52 AM, December 30, 2009  

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