Wednesday, January 16, 2008

What's Homeschooling got to do with it?

The NYT's had an article out yesterday entitled "Lack of Supervision Noted in Deaths of Home-Schooled" (Hat Tip: The article looks at the Washington D.C. case where four girls were killed allegedly by their mother, and concludes that homeschooling "kills" or at least is dangerous.

Why? Because abusive parents can stay home and abuse their kids instead of keeping them under the watchful eye of the state. Sorry, I don't buy this, kids fall through the cracks at school everyday (they even get abused in DCS custody!) and the D.C. case had little to do with homeschooling and more to do with finding an excuse to keep the police out of the house:

The oldest girl, Brittany Jacks, stopped attending classes in early March. A social worker from the Booker T. Washington Public Charter School went to the home April 30 and called police after she was denied entry, Fenty said.

The social worker reported that after speaking to Jacks she appeared to have mental health issues and “that she was possibly holding Brittany hostage by refusing to allow her to attend school,” Fenty said. A police officer who responded also was denied entry, but Jacks told him she was home-schooling the children.

If someone is possibly being held hostage, do the police always give up so easily if they hear a good excuse? I sure hope not.

I think that A Brief History blog has the right take on the Time's article:

Read the story and see if there is any sign that these kids were home schooled. The animosity of the left wing to home schooling is just amazing. Here is the real beef the Times has:

Once against the law in all but five states, home schooling is now legal throughout the country and highly regulated in just six states, New York among them. About 1.1 million of the 50 million school age children were home schooled in 2003, the National Center for Education Statistics says.

What do you think the murder rate among home schoolers is ? Just think, 1.1 million kids escaping the clutches of the teacher's unions.

Perhaps the real story here is the animosity of the Times to homeschoolers and the need for more supervision of state agencies like DCS.

Update: Ace: "The NYT has a lot of problems with the most basic sort of comparative statistics, doesn't it? At least when it comes to the military and home-schoolers and other Undesirables."



Blogger A Jersey Girl said...

Thanks for this post. I live in the DC metro are and have seen all the news coverage on this story. It is so sad, but doesn't have anything to do with homeschooling. I do however know first hand how easily the DC Government places blame on anyone but themselves. It is very, very sad for our nations capital.

2:16 PM, January 16, 2008  
Blogger Bruce said...

First - let me say as a retired police officer that the school official has no authority to enter someones house for ANY reason - so her calling the police because she was "denied entry" displays the power these school officials THINK they have. Sorry - but you DON'T have that authority - at least not yet.

Second, the officer also had no legal authority to enter the house without a warrant, and I'm sure he knew that - hence he didn't take the situation any further. Had he had a reasonable suspicion the child was being held against her will (by a parent?) he could have called for a supervisor and obtained a warrant.

So your posit that the police would not give up so easily in such a case if the evidence supported the teachers allegation is correct.

A teachers "authority", such as it is, extends only to on school property acting "in loco parentis." They have no more right to enter a persons home for ANY reason that a stranger walking down the street.

These liberals will find any reason possible - including inventing one - to justify their dream of holding Americans hostage to their socialist ideals. That is the history of the NYTimes, and the NEA.

2:33 PM, January 16, 2008  
Blogger Cham said...

The social worker wasn't upset that she was denied entry, she was very concerned that something happened to those kids. I am sure she knew she had no authority to demand to be allowed in the house.

The big question I ask is how does the state and the citizenry know that any of these "home-schoolers" are getting an education? All a parent has to say is that their kid is being "home-schooled" and they pretty much have carte blanche to avoid educating the child at all, physically abuse the child and even kill the child and nobody will be the wiser. Years later the rest of us are left to deal with young adults who can't read or write, function in society and most likely have behavioral problems. Ms. Jacks, the alleged killer parent, knew exactly what to say to keep authorities at bay so she wouldn't have to devulge what she did, look for many more to follow in her footsteps. I'm less than impressed with this home-school business.

2:50 PM, January 16, 2008  
Blogger Unknown said...

"Years later the rest of us are left to deal with young adults who can't read or write"

Ah, like the products of the public schools.

"I'm less than impressed with this home-school business."

Because you have no experience, and have no informed opinion.

2:56 PM, January 16, 2008  
Blogger Helen said...


"Years later the rest of us are left to deal with young adults who can't read or write,..."

The research shows that home-schoolers often outperform their counterparts in public education:

2:56 PM, January 16, 2008  
Blogger Cham said...

Yes, I know enough to make an opinion. I have known 6 kids that have been home-schooled. 3 out of the six were home-schooled primarily to keep their self-absorbed and bored parents company during the day. None of those 3 were receiving any type of education that I could tell.

2:58 PM, January 16, 2008  
Blogger Richard Cook said...

Cham -

And this differs from the state how?

Cham you display your own bias against homeschoolers. Mrs. Jacks knew how to manipulate the system in order to make the social worker go away. This is not a homeschooling story. This is an abuse story.

If the citizenry were that concerned about the subject they could get off their asses and do some research. There are an increasing number of homeschooled children entering university. I am sure there are enough homeschooling advocacy organizations that keep stats for this. I am just too busy right now.

Also if the state were that damn concerned about education why do we have the system we do now?

3:02 PM, January 16, 2008  
Blogger Richard Cook said...

Strike my bias comment but the rest stands. Why can't you see this is not a homeschooling issue?

3:04 PM, January 16, 2008  
Blogger Cham said...

I'd be all for home schooling if there was a system set up to make sure home-school children were actually getting an education and were in good health. Yes, this is a home-schooling issue as long as a parent can use home schooling as an excuse to avoid prosecution.

3:07 PM, January 16, 2008  
Blogger samuel said...

Cham, there is such a system, it's called personal responsibility and parenthood. Your anecdotes don't in any way tell the story of homeschooling, nor do they deal at all with the truth.

Homeschooling, on average, produces children at least as well educated than the public school system does on average. What you are suggesting is a gross overstepping of parental rights and personal freedom.

Oh, and for what it's worth, to the anti-liberal comments, one is not likely to find a more liberal person than I am, and I homeschool. Most of the homeschooling families we are friends with are also very liberal.

Homeschooling is a parenting issue and a choice that we make, like decisions all parents make, because we have decided that this is best for our family. It really is just that simple.

3:14 PM, January 16, 2008  
Blogger Cham said...

What you are suggesting is a gross overstepping of parental rights and personal freedom.

Being a US Citizen has never guaranteed anyone unilateral personal freedom. If you want to own a gun you fill out and application, go through a back ground check and then there is the a waiting period. If you want to drive a car, well there is the whole licensing process, including exams, not to mention titles and registration. Own a home? Taxes, title search, mortgage applications.

3:24 PM, January 16, 2008  
Blogger Marbel said...

"I'd be all for home schooling if there was a system set up to make sure home-school children were actually getting an education and were in good health."

What system makes sure public-schooled children are actually getting an education and are in good health? Or private-schooled children, for that matter?

So, Cham, you really think knowing 6 homeschooled kids gives you a good idea of what homeschooling is all about?

3:29 PM, January 16, 2008  
Blogger Malcolm Kirkpatrick said...

Gandhi opposed compulsory attendance laws. Einstein opposed compulsory attendance laws. In what democratic theory is the threat of organized violence (the State) needed to get people to do what they want to do? Some parents are incompetent, indifferent, or abusive. So are some teachers. So the question becomes: which policy yields the greatest benefit to cost ratio. In Hawaii, juvenile arrests for assault, property crimes, drug possession, and drug promotion fall in summer, when school is not in session. Juvenile hospitalizations for human-induced trauma fall in summer. Schools don't prevent crime, they cause it.

Across the US, the coefficient of correlation (age-start, score), where "age-start" is the age at which States compel attendance at school and "score" is NAEP 4th or 8th grade Reading or Math scores, is positive. Later is better. Across the US, the coefficient of correlation (%20K+dist, score), where "%20K+dist" is the fraction of a State's enrolment assigned to districts over 20,000 (or 15,000, depending on which year of the Digest of Education Statistics you use) and "score" is as above, is negative. Smaller is better. From these and other lines of evidence I draw two conclusions:
1) As institutions take from individual parents the power to determine for their own children the choice of curriculum and the pace and method of instruction, overall system performance falls.
2) Political control of school harms most the children of the least politically adept parents.

3:46 PM, January 16, 2008  
Blogger Bike Bubba said...

OK, first, social services already knew about this family. Putting them in the government's schools may, or may not, have provided evidence that the social worker may, or may not, have used to obtain a warrant and establish probable cause. So the article is loopy.

And Cham, there is a very strong system that ensures that most homeschooling parents far surpass the education given in the government schools. It's called "teach them to read, or they'll be living in your home until they're 40." It's the same system that made our country far more literate in 1850 than it is today. Parents knew that their children either would, or would not, take care of them in old age depending on their education. It works.

See for details. Well worth the read.

3:56 PM, January 16, 2008  
Blogger Richard Cook said...

Keep digging in Cham.

4:38 PM, January 16, 2008  
Blogger Martin said...

half this thread is crazy... this story has NOTHING to do with the educational or developmental pros and cons of homeschooling, that is just what the mother said to get the authorities to go away.

Where did you people go to school, anyway?

4:44 PM, January 16, 2008  
Blogger Freedomnow said...

Ahhh... the Internet. Somewhere were self-righteous trolls consider themselve superior to everyone else.

5:25 PM, January 16, 2008  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

As everyone now knows, the woman is wacko. Certainly, a trained social worker would have known something was amiss.

It has no more to do with home schooling that the other wacko in Texas who drowned all her kids in the bathtub had to do with homeschooling.

6:31 PM, January 16, 2008  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

"that the other wacko" should be "than the other wacko. oops.

Well, public schools. What can I say?

6:36 PM, January 16, 2008  
Blogger Synova said...

The police can't enter a home to check on things "just in case."

They just can't.

The idea that we need to do what we need to do to keep the odd parent here or there from killing their children is wrong. The cure, which applies to everyone, you, me, everyone, is worse than the disease.

Why? How horrible to say so?

Because violating privacy, making it legal to enter any house the police or social services want to enter, requiring schooling, requiring state supervision, licensing, and compliance to state education officials, social services, and police, will only do those things and will do NOTHING to stop the odd parent from killing their children.

Those children in the most (supposedly) supervised situations, in the *custody* of the state, in public schools and under the "care" of counselors, are STILL victimized.

Mostly that's because the supervision is a lie. As an example, after my mother insisted that an adult be assigned to do NOTHING but watch the interaction of our foster brother and my sister during school it was discovered that he punched her on average 12 times an hour. The *teacher* never saw this happen once.

The only effective supervision is what is done by parents and the reason many parents homeschool is to be more directly involved. Forcing a situation where the most effective and involved adults in a child's life are replaced by state custodians *just in case* of the parent who would harm her children replaces for *everyone* what works best with something that hardly works at all.

7:58 PM, January 16, 2008  
Blogger Darleen said...


as someone who works in a DA office I know that anyone can ask the police to do a welfare check, especially if there is probable cause.

There are no details in the article that the police officer that went to the house asked to see and speak with all the children ... SOP in our jurisdiction.

I just processed a case where the police responded to a call from a relative and found four children living in such filth that the Hazmat team had to come to the house.

10:18 AM, January 17, 2008  
Blogger DADvocate said...

I wonder if the NYT blames teachers molestating kids, or any injuries/deaths in school bus accidents, school shootings, and other school related activities due to public education which puts kids in these situations. The NYT seems to have little problem with totalitarianism but abhors individual independence.

11:34 AM, January 17, 2008  
Blogger Maggie Goff said...

What Samuel said....I live in a REALLY left wing town, and there are many, many liberal families who home school here.

1:09 PM, January 17, 2008  
Blogger SGT Ted said...

I wonder if the NYT blames teachers molestating kids, or any injuries/deaths in school bus accidents, school shootings, and other school related activities due to public education which puts kids in these situations.

Of course not. Lack of money is always the reason behind such things. Or George Bush. Or Halliburton. Or Dick Cheneys shotgun.

7:03 PM, January 17, 2008  
Blogger pockosmum said...

I know many families that home school here in the Kobe/Osaka area, instead of putting their kids into the Japanese school system. The way I understand it, and it seems to work the same way in the States, is that home-schooling families form groups, and they trade off lessons, and thus cover each other's weak areas, thereby making sure the education is well-rounded. There are companies that specialize in teaching materials for parents that home school, as well as websites for support.

The oldest of the children I know have now are getting into good universities in the US and Canada.

If you do a search on the net, you will find that most homeschooled kids are scoring well above the national average on the SATs,and other tests.

One of the most common things people say is 'How do they learn to socialize?' Their parents don't hold them hostage! They interact with their peers after school, as kids who live in the same neighborhood but go to different schools do. From what I've seen of junior high and high school 'socialization' lately I think kids would be much better off without it. I am horrified at some of what goes on in my niece's school.

8:12 PM, January 17, 2008  
Blogger Synova said...

Children learn to socialize in school because that's where they *are*.

The inability for people to imagine something different is not an argument against homeschooling.

The people who bring up socialization as a reason not to homeschool will often be the same people that demand to know how you, as a homeschool parent, plan to solve the very problems caused by school based socialization.

I think my favorite was: What kind of anti-drug program do you plan to use?

11:57 PM, January 17, 2008  
Blogger Crimson Wife said...

I just love it when people think that they know all about homeschooling based on a handful of homeschoolers they knew growing up. News flash to Cham et. al.: the homeschooling community is way more diverse than it was a decade or two ago! It's not just for hippies and superfundamentalist Protestants any more.

1:32 AM, January 18, 2008  
Blogger Bruce Hayden said...

Last night, I watched "Mean Girls" starring Lindsay Lohan as Cady, who was home schooled until her Junior year in HS. She views public high school as an experiment in cultural anthropology and gets in a bit of trouble when she finds that Girl World is all too real.

She does point out some of the good and bad of home schooling. For one, she is a year or so ahead of most of her peers, taking Calculus her Junior year. And, she is good enough in math that she was on the Ill state champion math team.

On the other hand, the real Lohan was likely close to home schooled, with private tutors, and as we all know, has had some values problems of late.

10:08 AM, January 18, 2008  
Blogger Bruce Hayden said...

Lest you think that my last post was intended as a condemnation of home schooling, it wasn't. When it is done well, many kids turn out much better than if they had been publicly educated.

For example, some 20 years ago, the national spelling bee champions tended to be Vietnamese, their families having fled after the fall of their country to Hanoi. But more recently, it seems like home schoolers rule. With a percent or two of the school aged kids being home schooled, I have seen years with 3 or 4 of the top 5 finishers being from that group. Ditto for Geo Bee, etc.

And for those who condemn the poor performers, I was reading something yesterday (that I can't refind right now) about a 9th grade science teacher moaning about how poorly prepared and motivated his kids are about how the world works. Most don't do their homework, and are just in class passing time. And he notes that most never learn in class the connection between work and trying to achievement and learning.

Not all the parents who home school do so to keep their kids from being introduced to Darwin. Many do it because the public school system is so wretched throughout much of the country. I wouldn't trust my kid there, if I had any choice (and I did have a choice).

10:25 AM, January 18, 2008  
Blogger Chris Barnes said...

Here's a mind blowing fact for Cam and the rest of the socialistic/communistic liberals - "The state" has no right to "verify" that someone's children are being educated. It is an intrusion into personal privacy that is a right that parents have.

And where do those rights of parents to decide how to raise their children come from? From the same place that our rights to "life, liberty, & pursuit of happiness" - recall that the Declaration of Independence says that we are "endowed BY OUR CREATOR with certain rights, among them are...". That means that the 3 listed are not the only 3 OUR CREATOR gave us. The right of parents to raise their children as they see fit is one of them.

And if OUR CREATOR gave them to us, I have no intention of allowing neither the state, nor an individual to take it from me. And I will defend that right with my very life.

11:08 AM, January 18, 2008  
Blogger Adrian said...

I'd be all for home schooling if there was a system set up to make sure home-school children were actually getting an education and were in good health.

Comments like this are amusingly paradoxical. And who keeps track of the system? The very people it is designed to check up on. It's not even like the criminal justice system where we all institute it to keep track of a relatively small percentage of offenders. This "system" is everyone watching everyone. On the one hand, it says how the average parent isn't qualified to keep track of themselves while, on the other hand, simultaneously relying on some average person asserting it for its very credibility.

Cham, why can't you see how phenomenally narcissistic you are being? Why is your opinion so special -- any more special than the parents you claim can't be trusted? You have nothing to recommend your own opinion and at the very same time trust your own evaluation over anyone else's -- implicitly! Now, if you were speaking from some specific point of contention that lead to such a position, then that might be one thing. But, you just speak from a pure general attitude that you and a bunch of like-minded people ought to check up on everyone else. How can you possibly rationally justify any assertion like that without resorting to some more specific issue to drive it? Just baldly stating it like such things are just generally "a good idea" is the very definition of narcissism.

You sit there and say something like "well, they didn't receive any kind of education that I could see," as if you are anyone to judge. When did you even systematically test them to make such a determination? You really think that your casual impression is that good, huh? And, who the hell ARE YOU? Just another parent? Do you even have kids? Are you another uppity school teacher that thinks they ought to be able to tell a bunch of Engineers, Physicists and Mathematicians all about how they should teach their kids math and science?

12:55 PM, January 18, 2008  
Blogger pdug said...

Homeschool regs vary from state to state. I live in Pennsy, where the regs are fairly strict, (you have to keep a log, you have tests proctored by non-parents, etc)

But at the same time I know of some "unschoolers" who at least on the surface make us blanch. Since the kid "doesnt" WANT to do the workbook, they don't do the workbook" Since the kid doesn't want to learn to write legibly by age 10, he doesn't write legibly. "He's working on it".

Unschooling probably 'works' for some kids, but I have the feeling its primarily an ideological choice. (yes, I say that as a homeschooler with a straight face :))

Reminds me of my thought about a childless libertarian friend: "libertarianism isn't consistently holdable by decent parents"

2:20 PM, January 18, 2008  
Blogger Adrian said...

On the contrary, libertarianism is all about how the rest of society is not my family. So, no, I don't have to share... with my neighbor... I don't have to sit still, stand in line, be nice and so on... with the assholes that are trying to take my stuff and tell me what to do.

On the other hand, I am the dictator of my house. And, if you don't like it, get a job!

4:22 PM, January 18, 2008  
Blogger Marbel said...

"But at the same time I know of some "unschoolers" who at least on the surface make us blanch. Since the kid "doesnt" WANT to do the workbook, they don't do the workbook" Since the kid doesn't want to learn to write legibly by age 10, he doesn't write legibly. "He's working on it"."

Maybe the kid doesn't learn well from workbooks. Maybe the 10 year old has some developmental issues that make handwriting difficult or uncomfortable. Maybe they don't think legible handwriting is all that important for a 10 year old and are working on developing other skills/knowledge that they feel are more important. There are a lot of brilliant adults out there with crummy handwriting. I know a few people who would have benefited from less emphasis on skills and more on nurturing their intellectual curiosity.

7:23 PM, January 18, 2008  
Blogger dweeb said...

"Years later the rest of us are left to deal with young adults who can't read or write, function in society and most likely have behavioral problems."

And our basis for this statement would be? The empirical evidence overwhelmingly shows home schoolers outperform public school students.

"Yes, I know enough to make an opinion. I have known 6 kids that have been home-schooled."

Enough to make a poor opinion. If YOU were educated as well as most home schooled kids, you'd realize that one FORMS an opinion, and that data is not the plural of anecdote, When you figure out what that means you'll understand the value of your 6 child experience.

"I'd be all for home schooling if there was a system set up to make sure home-school children were actually getting an education and were in good health"

You mean like the system that allows the public schools to turn out so many functional illiterates?

"Being a US Citizen has never guaranteed anyone unilateral personal freedom."

Clearly you were not well educated in the principles of our Founding Fathers.

"as someone who works in a DA office "

If you worked there as an ATTORNEY, you would have said so. I've worked in hospitals, would you like to let me remove your appendix?
Your city is lucky those "welfare checks" find actual problems, and that's no accident - there's probably a lot of prior investigation you're not privy to before those visits.

"If someone is possibly being held hostage, do the police always give up so easily if they hear a good excuse? I sure hope not."

Et tu Dr. Helen? Have you so little respect for the Fourth Amendment? There's that intrinsic authoritarian streak that comes from too much study of the social sciences.

11:17 PM, January 18, 2008  
Blogger Unknown said...

As for 10 year olds who can't write -
having spent many hours sorting and organizing papers of 4th and 5th graders with a former girlfriend who taught reading, I can assure you that there are plenty of public school kids who can't write legibly at 10 either; also plenty who can't spell or put together coherent sentences. Parents and teachers can do their best, but at some point it's up to the kids. I only know a few home schoolers, but I've been impressed with what I've seen.

11:21 PM, January 18, 2008  
Blogger Unknown said...

dweeb --

"Being a US Citizen has never guaranteed anyone unilateral personal freedom."

Clearly you were not well educated in the principles of our Founding Fathers.

Clearly, you statement is a butt load.

Not one of them would have agreed with you. You honestly believe the principles of the FF say you should be allowed to murder?

9:19 AM, January 19, 2008  
Blogger Sid said...

In Tennessee, the lottery scholarshp has a higher ACT score requirement for students who were home-schooled. I ask, why does the source of the student matter if the criterion is a standardized test score?

Because home-schooling is bad for the education industry's cabal of liberal-Democrat-union-organizations. If home-schooling is not challenged now, it will be unstoppable in the future.

Home-schooling is a choice. It may be better for some than others, but I believe it is a parent's perogative to choose the educational environment for their children.

3:13 PM, January 19, 2008  
Blogger pockosmum said...

" "Years later the rest of us are left to deal with young adults who can't read or write, function in society and most likely have behavioral problems."

Funny, that's how the results of your average public school system are often described.

1:07 AM, January 20, 2008  
Blogger Peregrine John said...

Projection; denial; unintended consequences; throwing money to solve problems; inverted power structure... the public education system is a gold mine of psychological phenomena to research.

5:07 PM, January 22, 2008  
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