Friday, November 11, 2011

Mental Health Cuts in the News

Today, I have seen several news stories about cuts in mental health. On CBS news, there is a slide show with the top 15 states that have cut services from 2009 to 2012. The states range from Missouri and Idaho to Virginia, Massachusetts and Washington D.C. (I know, it's not a state but it's listed).

Then, I saw that our local mental health hospital, Lakeshore Mental Health Institute will shut down in June of 2012. One of the reasons? Patients do better in the community. Sure they do.

Finally, I saw that no psychologists or psychiatrists want to take Tricare, the insurance for military personnel and many soldiers and their families are having trouble getting services:
TRICARE's psychological health benefit is "hindered by fragmented rules and policies, inadequate oversight and insufficient reimbursement," the Defense Department's mental health task force said last month after reviewing the military's psychological care system.


Just wait until Obamacare kicks in, then no one will be able to get services. But at least people will feel good about themselves. I also want to point out that many times, people think that it was the Republicans closing the mental hospitals and putting people onto the streets. Nope, that trend started with Jack Kennedy:
Numerous social forces have led to a move for deinstitutionalisation. However, researchers generally speak of six main factors: criticisms of public mental hospitals, incorporation of mind-altering drugs in treatment, support from President Kennedy for federal policy changes in the treatment for those with mental illnesses, shifts to community based care, changes in public opinion of those with mental disabilities, and individual state's desire to reduce cost of mental hospitals.[1]

Now, many of those people who were in hospitals are in our jails and prisons. Is that an improvement?

Nicholas Cummings in the book Destructive Trends in Mental Health: The Well Intentioned Path to Harm discusses the problems that mental health professionals have had over the years. One is that they are too political and because of that (in my opinion), there is no respect for my field any longer. It could be that the public sees us as a bunch of quacks. However, throwing the baby out with the bathwater isn't the answer. There are many people out there who are hurting and many of them do get help. Indeed, in my career, I saw people in mental institutes who saw the place as their home and did not want to leave.

Anyway, I guess when times are tough, mental health is the first to go. What do you think? Is this good, bad or are you neutral on this trend?

Labels:

61 Comments:

Blogger Cham said...

Experts say that 90% of prisoners have some sort of psychological challenge. It costs $35K/year to house a prisoner, never mind the judicial costs and the cost of the crime. Ignoring mental challenges until someone commits a violent crime has a lousy cost/benefit ratio.

7:44 PM, November 11, 2011  
Blogger ZorroPrimo said...

Just think of the reduction in street gangs, prisoners, etc., if more children grew up with fathers rather than single moms. And, yes, if mental health were given its due regard, a lot of horrible things would not come to pass.

Good catch, Cham.

7:50 PM, November 11, 2011  
Blogger Doom said...

As a general rule, I think it is good. What a psychologist can help with are things that family and friends cannot or will not deal with. A combat veteran can't talk to his family about some of the things he has seen and done, or shouldn't. Most people have no such serious problems. Family and friends should be who most people turn to. And if they don't have these resources, psychology can't help them.

Beyond psychology and psychiatry being illiberal, they have shot themselves in the foot in too many other ways. They hide diagnosis and do things behind "client's" backs, they don't make sure there isn't a medical reason for the problems, they push drugs often unnecessarily. And they have been noted for using terrible "treatments", such as electric shock, lobotomies, hot and cold baths. Reprehensible. But more, their work seldom leads to relief, real long term alterations toward a more functional life.

I am sure there are therapists out there who are very good. I simply haven't met one. Twits and power hungry nobodies messing with other people's lives because they have no understanding, or moral reality, in their own lives. Much like doctors, they are in it for the money. Unlike doctors, they aren't even as good at producing a better outcome. It is time to nearly bury the "profession".

I, personally, am now of the opinion that psychology is a thing of socialism, and therefore cannot be saved. It is unscientific, impractical, expensive, and doesn't work. No offense but you did ask.

10:41 PM, November 11, 2011  
Blogger Mark said...

"I am sure there are therapists out there who are very good. I simply haven't met one. Twits and power hungry nobodies messing with other people's lives because they have no understanding, or moral reality, in their own lives. Much like doctors, they are in it for the money. Unlike doctors, they aren't even as good at producing a better outcome. It is time to nearly bury the "profession"."

---

Yup. That's pretty much how it is.

10:47 PM, November 11, 2011  
Blogger Mark said...

"One of the reasons? Patients do better in the community. Sure they do."

--

Why not provide some evidence that this was "one of the reasons" (which may well be the case) and provide some evidence that patients do far worse in the community?

Instead of the simple snotty comment "sure they do".

12:48 AM, November 12, 2011  
Blogger Misanthrope said...

Doom assumes that people have family and friends they can turn to. What if they don't?

Apparently Mark hasn't heard of Kelly Thomas, who is dead because the Fullerton, CA police department felt that the way to deal with a homeless, mentally ill man is to take six cops and beat him to death. This being California, he could not be committed because he was not a danger to himself, and like a lot of people he would stop taking his medication when he felt better.

Does that work for you Mark, or should I include the stories of the Oklahoma City PD who had an unofficial policy to shoot those who they thought of as difficult to deal with?

1:28 AM, November 12, 2011  
Blogger Mark said...

I think your assumption here, Misanthrope, is that psychologists can help these people.

That's a pretty big and maybe unwarranted assumption in your otherwise self-righteous and histrionic missive.

4:36 AM, November 12, 2011  
Blogger Mark said...

Psychologists resist objective scientific studies of their craft like the devil resists holy water.

But in the few that I have seen, there is evidence, for instance, that moderate depression just kind of goes away on its own in the same time frame that it goes away with talk therapy. There is some evidence that Rorschach tests and some of the other tests are complete quackery.

This doesn't bother psychologists at all, who happily and busily go about writing their pumped-up invoices.

4:39 AM, November 12, 2011  
Blogger Mark said...

I would like to assert that snake-oil salesmen may be more effective in many cases because of the placebo effect.

4:44 AM, November 12, 2011  
Blogger Cham said...

The "community" has failed to handle the mentally challenged. The Baltimore County Police shot to death a mentally challenged man in his own home in September and the Howard County police shot to death a mentally challenged man a few days ago. The "community" doesn't know what to do with those that need treatment and the medical/psychological community does.

6:27 AM, November 12, 2011  
Blogger Der Hahn said...

Dr Helen .. Clayton E Cramer is self publishing (via Amazon/Kindle) a book he wrote on the history of de-instutionalization and his experiences with his brother's mental illness. I'm not sure if it's out yet. I read his blog regularly and I'm sure it would be worth checking out if you're not familar with him already.

7:49 AM, November 12, 2011  
Blogger Ern said...

It could be that the public sees us as a bunch of quacks.

I don't see all "mental health professionals" as quacks. I think very highly, for example, of Martin Seligman. There are, however, far too many practitioners who are committed to ideologies that blind them to the facts of their cases.

8:38 AM, November 12, 2011  
Blogger DADvocate said...

Patients do better in the community.

During the mid-1980s, I worked at HRMCC, a mental health center in Knoxville. I was directly involved in the program to help chronic, long term patients from Lakeshore live in group homes.

Most of the patients I worked with suffered from psychoses, primarily some form of schizophrenia. The plan was to have the patients live in as a group in a home with the hope that their combined abilities and skills would enable them to live independently. Of the patients we worked with while I was there, this happened in 0% of the cases.

All the patients were moved to group homes run by a largely untrained, but licensed, person. Some of these worked well, some did not.

One home was so bad the state took away its license. But, since legally the patients were independent, "competent" adults, most chose to stay. One ended up being murdered by his room mate, stabbed with a pencil in a argument over a cigarette if I remember correctly.

There is a core group of seriously mentally ill for whom moving them into the community under current methods increases danger to themselves and the community at large.

I also worked in the adolescent program at Lakeshore for a couple of stints during the early 1970s. None of these kids were truly institutionalized and almost always went home for the weekends. The hospital at that time housed abut 2,500 patients. Where are all these people now, and more since our population has greatly increased since then. Moat are successfully managed in the community, but there is still that core group. They are more likely to commit crimes, be the victims of crime and otherwise suffer.

Although my father (and to a degree because) my father was a clinical psychologist, I look at psychologists, psychiatrists and social workers with a jaundiced eye. Some to a great deal of good. I'm convinced that just as many do a great deal of harm, primarily because of believing fantasies about how things can be or should be, political beliefs, and just being plain whacky themselves.

9:12 AM, November 12, 2011  
Blogger SGT Ted said...

I had the exact opposite experience with TriCare mental health. I followed TriCares criteria for getting a referral and I had no problems with them getting payment. I also had to pay a copay that was significant, but I ddin't havbe to pay full boat; I was able to afford monthly payments to the Doc. This was for a family member, not myself, the service member.

I imagine some of the hate on TriCare in the article is because they doesn't pick up the tab completely.

If a psych don't want to take tricare, it's because their billing person is lazy, or they are more about money than helping people.

10:24 AM, November 12, 2011  
Blogger SGT Ted said...

When I was using Tricare for my own PTSD issues, I didn't pay a dime.

Is that everybodies situation? No, and I bet onerous costs aren't the situation for most service members.

10:26 AM, November 12, 2011  
Blogger VoodooJock said...

I'd rather pay to have an unproductive mentally ill person in treatment than to have someone who is perfectly healthy and capable paid to be unproductive by the local welfare agencies.

12:56 PM, November 12, 2011  
Blogger Doom said...

Misanthrope,

I was quite clear. People who do not have family and friends cannot be helped by psychologists. It wasn't an either or suggestion. That is, assuming psychology can be helpful, and I make no such assumption.

SGT Ted,

Do you realize, that if you as a vet, and possibly even your family, if you have sought psychological help through the V.A. or it's auxiliary programs, even (or especially for service connected problems) your file may have been given to the FBI, making you ineligible to purchase firearms? Thanks for everything, America. We fight for you and you stab us in the back. From what I am seeing there may be no way to fight it, as even if you clear the record with the V.A., assuming that is even possible, the FBI is under no constraints to honor that clearing of the record. Just thought you might like to know.

3:01 PM, November 12, 2011  
Blogger SGT Ted said...

Doom,

Thats why I don't use the VA for my healthcare. I am retired Army so I use Tricare.

10:08 AM, November 13, 2011  
Blogger Dr.Alistair said...

dadvocate, one of my teachers lived with a psychology professor while in university and read pretty much everything the man had in his library, and said he only ever found one thing to do in any of those books.

write things on a four inch pad.

6:17 PM, November 13, 2011  
Blogger DADvocate said...

Dr.Al - LOL!

8:32 PM, November 13, 2011  
Blogger Steven J. Ceresnie, Ph.D. said...

Liberals and conservative - in the 1960's -- collaborated, for different reasons, to empty out the psychiatrict hospitals, and among other outcomes, created the homeless populations.

Liberals railed against giving psychotic patients psychiatric medications "against their will," violating their civil rights. Conservatives were skeptical of mental illness, thought we were spending too much money on inpatients, and wondered whether mental health "was a myth," supported by such anti-psychiatrists as Thomas Szasz. Perhaps we could teach people to take more responsibiity for their psychiatric problems some conservatives would claim.

Liberals and conservatives were both wrong.

In the psychiatric field, where we do not have a clue about how the brain creates the mind, liberal and conservative ideologies of human nature squeeze the complicated reality of mental illness into their narrow world views, some exaggerating what mental health practitioners and medications can accomplish, and some minimize the scope and complexity of the problems of the mentally ill.

Steven J. Ceresnie, Ph.D.
Psychologist
Plymouth, MI

9:40 AM, November 14, 2011  
Blogger SGT Ted said...

This comment has been removed by the author.

10:49 AM, November 14, 2011  
Blogger SGT Ted said...

Welp, while you might be able to convince a conservative that more needs to be done via the mentally ill, but, the USSC ruled that mental ill people have Constitutional rights that cannot be set aside until they are dangerous.

"In the psychiatric field, where we do not have a clue about how the brain creates the mind"

But you want big bucks from the rest of us to cure the minds problems.

I have no idea as to how your internal combustion engine produces power, so I will charge you 100 per hour to diagnose your running problems and recommend a solution. If I have to keep your car in my shop, I'll charge you thousands of dollars per day for it to stay here. You'll be broke and I'll have my Lexus. If you can't pay, rather than reduce my prices to actual affordable levels, I'll lobby Congress for money to pay me in the form of mandated insurance.

10:55 AM, November 14, 2011  
Blogger Mark said...

SGT Ted:

Psychologists can hold their prices at a level corresponding to the level of effectiveness that the general public THINKS they have.

The problem is that, in my opinion, psychologists don't deliver what the public thinks they can deliver.

I obviously don't have much respect for them - I think the cognitive methods are the useful ones (against anxiety / depression etc.), and you can learn them YOURSELF - but I have asked people about their experiences.

I have had three different friends / relatives go to marital therapy, for instance. All three got divorced, but I agree that that fact alone doesn't point to failure on the part of psychologists. All thought at the time they were getting useful help; all thought later on that it was just an illusion.

And those are people who wanted to believe it. I don't believe it - I think lots of psychologists have fairly massive egos that are clearly not in line with what they really deliver (if anything).

11:37 AM, November 14, 2011  
Blogger Mark said...

And that's my opinion about fairly mainstream psychologists.

There are also a LOT of complete nuts in that field who have crackpot theories, who (sexually) exploit their patients, who are feeding off the ego boost themselves of being in control of weak people and who are probably doing a lot more damage than repair.

11:41 AM, November 14, 2011  
Blogger Steven J. Ceresnie, Ph.D. said...

This is still the best time in human history to get help for psychiatric problems. Medications help many people lead stable lives. Psychological therapy is not an illusion, and for some, has made the difference between life and death, joy or despair, and so on.

Marital therapy is the most difficult to do. Many couples come in for therapy with one foot out of the marriage.

12:30 PM, November 14, 2011  
Blogger Dr.Alistair said...

"In the psychiatric field, where we do not have a clue about how the brain creates the mind"

we show ourselves pictures, and talk inside as a result...which creates feelings in the body which we react to.

nlp and cognitive methodology, which all work toward all but the most difficult of problems that the student (not patient) face, provide the tools for analysis and change in the student.

i teach my student/clients about their mind/body and the go to work to use the methods to see better pictures and have better internal discussions and therefore better feelings to react to.

that's the reader's digest version.

and marital therapy is a challenge as one of the partners wants permission to leave generally.

12:40 PM, November 14, 2011  
Blogger Mark said...

And a comment about intelligence that I think is relevant for an evaluation of real effectiveness:

The majority of senior undergraduates in physics with a reasonable grade-point average could pass a graduate-level class in psychology, social work, sociology or education, for instance.

I'm absolutely convinced of that, ESPECIALLY in classes that give the latter people trouble, like statistics.

I'm equally convinced that the majority of Ph.D. people in psychology or education etc. could NOT pass a solid two-semester graduate course in quantum mechanics. I'm not talking about reading the Dancing Woo Masters and then nodding at your immense insight, I'm talking about the full mathematical description with no bullshit.

Despite that, I see psychology and education people shoving their degrees in people's faces. I don't see that so much among people with Ph.D.s in physics. I had a friend at work once who never even bothered to mention that he had a Ph.D. in physics. I even see that behavior on this board.

That wouldn't be a problem if the general public weren't so damn gullible. They just eat up all the crap that the psychologist-of-the-day says on Oprah (although I guess she's gone now) or Dr Phil.

2:54 PM, November 14, 2011  
Blogger Dr.Alistair said...

mark, i think the distinction between phds in physics and phds in psych or whatever, is that your physics types don't have social skills and tend to be less gregarious.

i realise this is a generalisation and that guys like kaku and feynman suggest otherwise, but they tend to be the exeption that proves the rule.

my father was an analytical chemist and hobby mathematician and spoke five foreign languages and did technical translations from english to both german and russian and worked as a chemist for a.w.r.e aldermaston in england in the sixties.

in retrospect, i would say he was full-blown asperger's and his social skills were like a brick, especially when he was irritated.

to say he was embarrassing to be out with would be an understatement.

3:36 PM, November 14, 2011  
Blogger Mark said...

Frankly, Dr. Alistair, if I had a job to figure out something in the world, I would rather have someone like your father. In fact, if I needed someone to figure out an anomaly in psychology, I would rather have someone like your father.

As to social skills, my experience in college is that the engineering and physics types were more like Feynman than your stereotyped description. They were fun to be around, insightful and ... intelligent.

Now as to psychologists: I saw with my own eyes a psychologist who did anger-management seminars have a melt-down over a very minor issue. A literal childlike, foot-stomping tantrum.

3:47 PM, November 14, 2011  
Blogger Mark said...

To go even further out on the dumbness scale in college:

If you needed to hire someone for most any job, would you hire a person who had proven he had analytical abilities, stick-to-itness and general intelligence ...

... or ...

... would you hire a women's studies major?

And you think THEY have social skills? They don't have intelligence OR social skills.

3:49 PM, November 14, 2011  
Blogger Mark said...

They can simply parrot phrases like "heteronormative" and "conflate" and "that's wrong on so many levels", and otherwise be mouthy, sarcastic and pushy.

That's it.

3:54 PM, November 14, 2011  
Blogger Steven J. Ceresnie, Ph.D. said...

There is no doubt that psychology is a rudimentary art that lacks easy access to proof because of the complexity of human nature. And, there is no doubt, some psychologists have damaged the credibility of their profession by pretending to know the secrets of human nature. Yet, with skilled and comprehensive psychological assessments, humility, knowledge of research finding, and experience, psychologists have much to offer those in need of psychological treatment. We are in the learning game --- not the authorities game.

4:18 PM, November 14, 2011  
Blogger Cham said...

For anyone that cares, I hold bachelors in both Chemistry and Physics. As a part-time hobby, I've decided to solve the urban violent crime problem in the United States. I've devoted a great deal of time in the last 4 months with the project, but it should be wrapped up by the first week in January. Whoosh, almost like too much effort. By applying the analytical skillset that I obtained with my schooling in the hard sciences, I've pretty much done what I can't see that anyone in the criminal justice system nor the psychology field has been capable of doing.

I'll be posting about 10 blogposts between January 1 and January 7 that should solve the urban violent challenge quite nicely. I simply don't understand why nobody has looked at this issue before from an analytical standpoint. The hard part has been extracting the data from that ridiculously tight-lipped police department.

Right now, all I have is data but you can see the framework in which I am working.

http://www.chamspage.blogspot.com/

5:37 PM, November 14, 2011  
Blogger Mary said...

The more sympathetic mental health doctors making mental health diagnoses, the more Social Security disability claims paid out...

Mental illness can mean hitting the jackpot these days. Early retirement. Too many docs get business by "certifying" these folks, and then they're on Medicaid too after a two-year wait...

I'm kinda glad myself that "mental health is the first thing to go". They get checks monthly, paid caregiver checks (often a spouse or family member) and discounted housing.

I liked it better when "mental illness diagnosis" meant either your family stepped up and cared for you, or you were institutionally housed, which is more financially efficient.

That gives NO incentive to WANTING an easy mental health diagnosis. One where you can do whatever you like, except work, and collect the monthly check -- the early Social Security retirement, if you well.

Plus -- the legally diagnosed prescription pills! Ah, the life for those lucky folks.

5:57 PM, November 14, 2011  
Blogger Steven J. Ceresnie, Ph.D. said...

Because we do not know how the brain produces consciousness, we must examine psychiatric disorders from four perspectives using different methods of investigation and treatment.

Mental disorders are life under altered circumstances. These circumstances are grouoped in families of disorders, stemming from the breakdown in the mind's design (e.g. schizophrenia, autism), or the expressions of the minds design that lead to behavioral misdirections (e.g. alcoholism) or emotional responses to distressful encounters (e.g. trauma).

In other words, psychological disorders have their origins in (1) brain disease (2) temperamental biases for anxiety and depression (3) temperamental biases that make it difficult to regulate behavior (conduct disorder, ADHD), and (4) stressful life encounters.

The are strong biological/genetic vulnerabilities, temperaments, and life encounters that come together to produce psychological distress.

We know a lot even though we have much to learn (see Paul McHugh and Jerome Kagan).

2:10 PM, November 15, 2011  
Blogger Mark said...

This comment has been removed by the author.

4:08 PM, November 15, 2011  
Blogger Will said...

Steven J. Ceresnie, Ph.D.:

What's with the constant "we"?

You and all the cutting-edge scientists? You and your little imaginary friend?

The royal we? You are not amused?

Kind of arrogant, in my opinion.

11:30 PM, November 15, 2011  
Blogger Steven J. Ceresnie, Ph.D. said...

Most people with psychiatric disorders do not seek help. And even those who do seek help often don't get the correct treatment.

This outcome is serious because so many people suffer with from memtal illness.

Serious psychologists and serious patients have a hard time finding each other.

There is no place for arrogance. We are all in the learning game ---not the authories game.

11:49 PM, November 15, 2011  
Blogger Will said...

"And even those who do seek help often don't get the correct treatment."

--

Gee, ya think?

I guess we have to work on that.

12:00 AM, November 16, 2011  
Blogger Will said...

But not getting the correct treatment (... if one exists ...) doesn't seem to be a bar to writing invoices.

We've got to work on that in the area of psychiatric disorders tended to by psychologists. We really do.

12:01 AM, November 16, 2011  
Blogger Mark said...

This comment has been removed by the author.

12:23 AM, November 16, 2011  
Blogger Mark said...

This comment has been removed by the author.

12:25 AM, November 16, 2011  
Blogger br549 said...

In my view, people who go to marriage counceling finally are able to see that they have nothing in common, the relationship between them is severely damaged and dysfunctional, realize it was a huge mistake, and call it quits. That is, if there is any sanity left within them at this stage.
If you need a third party to help with your relationship with your S.O., you're in deep shit already.

In my view, an emotional disorder is what you have, a psychological disorder is who you are. Sometimes, there is nothing you can do. I have seen it first hand, as many have. There is something "wrong" with everyone. My answer has been the "hermit in a cave" approach. But of course, there's something wrong with that.

6:20 AM, November 16, 2011  
Blogger br549 said...

Sorry, I meant personality disorder is who you are.

6:27 AM, November 16, 2011  
Blogger TMink said...

I LOVE TriCare as they are one of my highest paying insurances and certainly one of the easiest for me to bill.

This may just be the South region, but they are really easy for me to work with. And to top it off I really enjoy my work with military families.

Trey

11:51 AM, November 16, 2011  
Blogger TMink said...

I think the respect for our field is bimodal. There are lots of people who think way to much of us and lots of people who think we are all quacks, but not so many in the middle.

I notice a difference in the age of people who find out I am a shrink. Over about 55 they pretend to be nervous and say something like "Oh well now you will be analyzing me all the time, I better act right" while those under 55 either ask about the weirdest person I have ever seen or tell me about the weirdest person in their family.

The borderlines just start in with their free session. 8)

Trey

11:54 AM, November 16, 2011  
Blogger TMink said...

Doom, a fair critique. I agree with much of what you say and see your point with the rest. I am sorry that you have not met someone in the field who was worth a damn though.

Trey

11:55 AM, November 16, 2011  
Blogger Mark said...

"Over about 55 they pretend to be nervous and say something like "Oh well now you will be analyzing me all the time, I better act right" ...

--

Is that what everyone over 55 does? Even the majority of them? Doubt it.

I would be polite to you in a social setting and then quickly move on. You and Steven J. Ceresnie, Ph.D., can dump your need for verification and other ego/arrogance problems on someone else.

3:09 PM, November 16, 2011  
Blogger Mark said...

And next time you damn well know that you didn't help someone a whit, maybe you'll feel a bit of guilt as you write the invoice.

Somehow I doubt that too.

3:11 PM, November 16, 2011  
Blogger Mark said...

This comment has been removed by the author.

3:11 PM, November 16, 2011  
Blogger Dr.Alistair said...

yeah, i get attacked by the credentialed and those beholden to credentials on a regular basis, and my reaction is simply to say that i get paid to get results, not to bill by the hour.

not all doctors are doing nothing though. many save lives and treat illnesses...but the psychology field is a tough one for me, as they get pissy when i help phobics and ocd types by showing them things they can do differently and get different results.

i've been told that i can't treat illnesses without a licence!

i remember going to marriage counselling (ha ha) and having the psychologist tell me that his group was lobbying government to only allow psychologists to provide counselling in ontario.

gangsters.

3:21 PM, November 16, 2011  
Blogger TMink said...

Mark, some people have issues, you evidently have subscriptions. Do your bleeding somewhere else pal, you are making a pool on the floor.

Trey

9:59 AM, November 17, 2011  
Blogger Mark said...

I voice a substantive issue that a lot of people think ...

... and the controlled, observant psychologist TMink ...

... hurls simple insults like a monkey throws its feces.

What you need even worse than a LAWSUIT, TMink, is for people to have insight into you and your ilk.

2:08 PM, November 17, 2011  
Blogger Mark said...

I'm honest about this: If I thought there was the slightest chance that I was a phony, I would think about it and correct it if that were the case.

TMink and his ilk just get aggressive and throw feces.

2:10 PM, November 17, 2011  
Blogger TMink said...

"TMink and his ilk just get aggressive and throw feces."

You just wrote that. Read the post above your last one. You said it twice in a row. The people who read your posts read it the first time.

And about aggressive, I don't think that word means what you think it means.

Or you know what it means and have a complete lack of insight into your own aggression.

The truth hurts.

Feel the pain!

Then correct yourself like you said you would.

Get back to us after that.

Or not.

Trey

2:20 PM, November 17, 2011  
Blogger Mark said...

This is the guy who claims to be an expert on emotions and mental processes.

And he can't control himself.

2:21 PM, November 17, 2011  
Blogger Mark said...

Drone on, you phony. Some people have your number.

2:22 PM, November 17, 2011  
Blogger Dr.Alistair said...

mark, what's in the mirror....look!

2:58 PM, November 17, 2011  
Blogger Mark said...

I'm confident that I'm not a phony, Dr.Alistair. You've got to put a bit more thought into your next attempt at an insult.

It's funny: A Dr. who's not even a Dr. is calling someone a phony.

Sometimes irony is ironic.

3:08 PM, November 17, 2011  
Blogger Dr.Alistair said...

why would you be insulted by looking in a mirror mark?

6:58 AM, November 18, 2011  

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